Senior Citizens Will Lead the Self-Driving Revolution (theverge.com) 137
The Villages in Florida -- home to 125,000 residents, over 54,000 homes, 32 square miles, 750 miles of road, and three distinct downtowns -- will soon get a fleet of robot taxis. "Voyage, a startup that has been operating a handful of self-driving cars in the San Jose, California-based retirement community also called The Villages, announced today that later this year it will expand to the much-larger Villages north of Orlando," reports The Verge. "This is thanks to a successful Series A fundraising round that raked in $20 million in 2017." From the report: It's an indication that, strangely enough, many of the first people to fully experience the possibilities presented by self-driving cars will be over the age of 55. Most experts agree that robot cars will first roll out as fleets of self-driving taxis in controlled environments -- college campuses, business parks, dedicated freeway lanes, city centers, or retirement communities. Self-driving startups get to boast about providing a real service for people in need, while seniors get to lord over their grandchildren about being early adopters of a bold new technology. They're also getting something a little more valuable: Voyage is giving the owners of The Villages and the smaller San Jose development equity stakes of 0.3% and 0.2%, respectively, according to The Information. Voyage's self-driving cars aren't fully driverless. Safety drivers will remain behind the wheel just in case there's a need to intervene. And to compliment its digital mapping capabilities, the startup says it will partner with Carmera, a 3D mapmaker for autonomous vehicles. This type of partnership is necessary for what Voyage believes is "the largest deployment (by area size) of self-driving cars in the world."
Sign me up! (Score:4, Funny)
It even comes with a Get-Off-My-Lawn button.
Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! (Score:1, Informative)
Just because Senior Citizens generally drive slower does not mean Senior Citizens are bad drivers
In fact, most accidents were caused by non-Senior Citizen drivers
Have some dignity, drive your own car !!
Re: Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! (Score:3)
I habe even more dignity. That is why I let others drive. Much more comfortable. Really what has dignity to do what mode of transportation I use?
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Drive slower? My grandmother drove fast as hell. She felt that as long as she could come to a halt before a red light that is all that's required. She drove like an NYC cabbie. I don't why, but slow she was not. Much to everyone's concern.
Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! (Score:5, Funny)
Drive slower? My grandmother drove fast as hell. She felt that as long as she could come to a halt before a red light that is all that's required. She drove like an NYC cabbie. I don't why, but slow she was not. Much to everyone's concern.
Did she come from Pasadena?
As My step mom used to say (Score:2)
Also, driving with her was a white knuckle experience if there ever was one....
Re:Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, most accidents were caused by non-Senior Citizen drivers
In total, or per mile driven ?
Re: Have some dignity, for crying out loud ! (Score:3)
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I want to go to bed in Bryce and wake up in Yosemite.
Of course, soon to be followed by, autonomous meth lab...
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They deserve it. They've only been waiting for it since seeing the Jetsons premiere.
Welcome to the modern Ghetto! (Score:1, Insightful)
I've seen these places and as someone who is almost 65, if anyone suggested that I go live in one of those Ghetto's then I'd probably kill them.
Sorry people I'm not going to go into those places ever again. The sense that everyone is just 'Waiting for God' was over powering. As for all that beige clothing. Ugh!
There is no way that I'm done with life. Later this year, I'm going to ride a motorcycle right around Australia. My kids are with me on these places.
sorry, no. no and thrice No.
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You're a complete psycho. If someone says something to them you are going to commit murder?
For fuck's sake. I hope someone locks you up before you do anyone serious harm.
Get a grip.
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I don't think the poster is a psycho. They are more than likely saying that anyone who suggested that they go live there is mad and that they'd rather die than join the others in those Ghetto's. I rather like that term for these places. It is better than 'Prison Camp for the Forgotten'. There are others names that are unprintable.
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if anyone suggested that I go live in one of those Ghetto's then I'd probably kill them.
Either the GP has a poor understanding of English or they are in fact claiming they would likely kill anyone who made this particular suggestion to them.
That is not the course of action reasonable people take. Psychos on the other hand, have no such compunctions.
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Sorry my friend, he's obviously not being serious. It would seem your grasp of English and reading between the lines is pretty poor. As I asked in another post, do you have aspergers? It would explain you're complete inability to see what is so obvious to others.
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It's called hyperbole. If I met someone as dense as you in real life, I'd probably kill them.
Hint: that's also hyperbole.
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I suppose this mentality is how Trump got elected. I have no responsibility for my actions or words so long as sufficient number of other people do the same thing.
Are you an idiot? (Score:2)
Or just another socially clueless aspie? Can't you spot metaphor and hyperbole when its so bloody obvious?
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It is bloody obvious to anyone with a normally functioning brain. Clearly you're not part of that group either.
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Sorry, the silicon valley bros will soon announce than motorbikes will be banned since its unlikely an automated motorbike woiuld ever be developed and they can't have their nice automated cars on roads with unpredictable human drivers now can they?
Silicon valley knows whats good for us, remember that. Big Brother has nothing on these guys.
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Later this year, I'm going to ride a motorcycle right around Australia.
I recommend a jet-ski or boat for riding around Australia. Motorcycles don't deal well with being submerged in the ocean.
Re: Welcome to the modern Ghetto! (Score:2)
The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... (Score:5, Interesting)
Drugs don't seem to work 100% for her so she can't drive. The elderly & the blind (vision impaired) are all early candidates. /. , gander or snooze. Bring it on.
I like driving but even I'd prefer to
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I have poor vision, not quite legally blind, bjt certainly not good enough to drive.
and my wife has epilepsy.
I walk to work (1 mile) except in bad weather (like rain or extremecold.)
Fortunately right now its my night off.
Re: The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... (Score:2)
Re:The wife has epilepsy and can't drive... (Score:5, Insightful)
The elderly & the blind (vision impaired) are all early candidates
Exactly. I don't understand why the authors of the article find it strange that the early adopters of self driving cars are people who have problems driving themselves. For them, there's a clear business case that justifies the expense. The fact that the Villages is a closed community filled with prospective clients makes it a perfect candidate for a pilot. Not strange at all...
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I've said for a while now that I want a self-driving car before my kids come to me to take my keys away. I see the value and dignity of independent mobility, but I also know that at some point accumulated knowledge and experience will no longer compensate for an ageing body and brain.
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Yes, there are a number of things that affect elderly people such that they cannot or should not drive -- vision impairment, as you noted, and even just declining ability to react quickly enough to safely operate a vehicle.
Those factors, combined with attributes of a retirement community like the Villages, such as being a somewhat isolated environment, moderate traffic, better than average signage and road markings, somewhat favorable weather (e.g. they're often in places with no snow), etc... make it a goo
Once the price comes down, anyway (Score:2)
Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.
Re:Once the price comes down, anyway (Score:5, Informative)
Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.
You might want to look up [usnews.com] this "retirement community". Their target customer isn't senior citizens, it's rich people who happen to be over 55.
I betcha the streets are all very low speed limits if golf carts are considered "normal road traffic". Perfect place to test a bunch of unproven vehicle technology.
Re:Once the price comes down, anyway (Score:5, Informative)
Most senior citizens don’t have copious amounts of spare cash
They do in The Villages. It is located in Silicon Valley. A townhouse there can cost nearly $1M, and a modest house nearly $2M. It is not for poor people. It is a good choice for a rollout because they can afford the cars, and many of them are techno-geezers.
Disclaimer: I live in San Jose, about 5 miles from The Villages, and I know several people that live there.
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They do in The Villages. It is located in Silicon Valley. A townhouse there can cost nearly $1M, and a modest house nearly $2M. It is not for poor people.
From my understanding of real estate in Silicon Valley, these property values are typical.
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The Villages referred to in this article is in Florida. It says so right in the summary. The rest of your comment is correct. The Villages is not populated by poor retirees.
Apparently they have many different locations called "The Villages", even in the summary they mention "the smaller San Jose Development".
Re:Once the price comes down, anyway (Score:5, Interesting)
Most senior citizens donâ(TM)t have copious amounts of spare cash - so this first really needs to filter down to the low end of the automotive market.
But you don't need "most", you need a market that has moderate wealth and who'd desperately like to get back to the freedom of having a car. I think my parents would be a good case, they lost their driver's licenses involuntarily - okay my mom gave hers up, but only because it was obvious she wasn't fit to drive anymore - and they have a down paid house and comfortable economy. They could take taxis and occasionally they do but it's to them different, it's like not their car, driven by a stranger and for some things like going to their cabin it feels awkwardly expensive even though that's more psychological. I mean let's say they'd probably have a $30k car each if they could drive, together plus extra "I want it" factor... I think they'd pay $100k for a self-driving car.
Not that this sounds like anything like that, it's a slow-moving ride with a safety driver meaning it's basically just testing of the kind Google has been doing for many years. This seems to be more of a novelty, but I guess they're hoping to be bought by someone trying to jump on the SDC bandwagon. I'd be very surprised if this is the path to market dominance. But they, the more the merrier I just wish they'd get there... they've barely started to put the safety driver in the back seat, much less kick him out entirely.
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The people in The Villages in Lake County are far from poor.
Not a single fucking one of them can drive though. Even the ones that aren't as old as Methuselah. I don't miss Leesburg Florida a bit. I'm told it's much worse than it was 30 years ago now that that place has gotten so big.
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Individuals may not be able to afford it. But as a taxi with no labor cost (no driver), the car will be in use all the time, spreading the cost of the vehicle across a hundred trips per day instead of the 2-6 per day most individuals would make. With self-driving taxi's, I will only pay for the portion of the car I use. So, instead of buying a whole car, I pay for the wear and tear of one trip, plus the fuel, repairs, insurance, etc. that corresponds to my use of the vehicle. And instead of having to commit
Trust? (Score:2)
Will seniors trust them? What about disabled young people like me? :(
Re:Trust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Will seniors trust them?
Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning. If data shows SDCs are safe, and they have a lower accident rate than HDCs, then they will trust them.
What about disabled young people like me? :(
Young people tend to just go with the crowd. So if their Facebook friends trust SDCs, so will they.
Re:Trust? (Score:5, Informative)
No need. If a self-driving car lets a senior get around still, they will buy them in droves. Seniors can be fiercely independent, and often one of the hardest things a son or daughter must do is confiscate their parent's driver license, or write to the DOT saying their parents should have their license revoked.
Likewise, many seniors will go into depression if their doctor says they shouldn't drive anymore.
A self-driving car that lets them drive around still is a godsend as they're not dependent on taxies, public transport, uber/lyft/etc or family to drive them around.
Thus, they are more receptive of SDCs if it means they can still maintain a lifestyle of relative independence. Even in the early days, all it takes is one of the neighbours saying they are much happier being able to get around by themselves even though they were forced to give up their license to have everyone out car shopping the next day.
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Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning.
And yet far more seniors engage in jaded skepticism. Trust in technology and technological adoption including technologies which take over decision making is far more prevalent among the young than the old.
The research on this has shown the trends not to change over time. It is still consistent with the angst older people had about autopilots in airliners and computers in the 80s and 90s.
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Many seniors also engage in blatantly prejudicial and biased reasoning. Ask a WW2 vet who swallowed the anti-Japanese propaganda how they feel about Sony or Toyota, 75+ years after the war and the occupation and the rewritten constitution and all the new generations of Japanese born after the war who were raised on Western ideas. As one example. There's also "this is the way I've always done it, so I'll do it this way until I die" stubbornness. There are TONS of people, seniors or no, who feel safer driving
Re:Trust? (Score:4, Insightful)
Will seniors trust them?
Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning. If data shows SDCs are safe, and they have a lower accident rate than HDCs, then they will trust them
Really? I tend to find they flatly reject anything that's not part of their already established worldview.
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Many seniors engage in evidence-based-reasoning
Maybe where you live, but in the UK the analysis of recent election results tells the exact opposite story. Older people were far more swayed by appeals to emotion than to logic.
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Well I see it like this:
"My granddaughter told me about this autopilot car thing. I was of course, not impressed, but she convinced me and took me for a spin round the block---and let me tell you Gretchen, it was a whopper! Real daggum fine piece of work. Those tech folks sure are onto something, and I don't have to strain my hip every time I gotta brake at the corner with the loose-chained dog! the auto driver just went right around Fido."
Basically, word-of-mouth and pilot programs for subsidized rates wil
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This is putting the cart before the horse so to speak (the bumper before the AI?)......the technology isn't ready for self-driving yet, and they are already trying to sell it. Realistically, once the technology is ready, people will be lining up to buy it. That stuff will sell itself.
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There's no drivers behind the wheel in the Waymo taxis in Phoenix. True Level-4 self-driving cars are already here [arstechnica.com].
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Um, that is not self driving then if there is a human driver behind the wheel.
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Also, I think it depends a lot on whether they get you to your destination 99.999% of the time, or tend to stop by the side of the road confused about something.
Not surprising (Score:2)
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Money. The answer is money.
When you own a self-driving car it can make you money by doubling as a taxi when it's not needed by you.
Let me paint you a picture, say 15-20 years into the future: I own a self-driving car and take it to work in the morning, and it takes off to find a parking spot somewhere nearby. I've configured the car so that my close circle of friends can use it during my office hours for trips shorte
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But then you are the taxi owner, just under a less formal definition of the word. And somebody who makes it their business to own 50 cars, will be able to undercut you on the price because he will be more motivated to have his cars full all the time.
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Might want to get his eyes checked. Avoiding night driving can be an early indicator of cataracts.
Thanks. Sad to say it is early-stage macular degeneration, and at the doctor's advice he has 6-monthly checks to see that he can still drive safely in daylight.
Senior drives 400 miles while dead? (Score:1)
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It will be safer. There will be a button that drives you to the nearest hospital or police station probably. This is better than "senior dies at the wheel causes 12 car pile up". Besides, if your Apple Watch can already track your heartbeat I'm sure the car will know if your vital signs are abnormal and recommend help. It is most definitely progress.
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It sure beats the current situation where dead seniors drive into someone else and kill them too. If you have some strange objection to traveling while dead, we can add an auto-eject system to detect when the occupant stops breathing and toss them out onto the shoulder of the road while the car goes home.
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I wonder how long it will take until we will read stories like "senior drives 400 miles in automated car while dead"?
They can detect driver death from sensors in the seat. So, it will probably happen in China, but not here in the USA.
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What would ever give you the idea that the state (or the people) in China care more about human life than in the USA?
You just failed your reading comprehension test. Congratulations! Back to elementary school with you.
What did you say? (Score:2)
If all cars were electric, I wouldn't have to turn down my hearing aids due to the road noise from the highway!
--
Alexa, add "big hairy balls" to my shopping list. - Cartman
Not strange at all; makes sense for olders (Score:5, Interesting)
strangely enough, many of the first people...will be over the age of 55
Many elderly people have reached the stage where they know they should not be driving any more, but have to...or move from the house they've lived in for years. So this could be great for them...
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If it's not the case where you live, shouldn't this be fixed first before everybody goes and buys a new car?
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And even those who are still fine know it's going to happen sooner or later.
A sixty-something guy I used to work with got a Tesla in part because of all the assistive features (and opted for the features), because he figures in 10 years, he might appreciate things like self-park, stay-in-lane, adaptive cruise control and all that, even if he doesn't need them right this instant.
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Many elderly people have reached the stage where they know they should not be driving any more, but have to...or move from the house they've lived in for years. So this could be great for them...
My parents can still drive ok. They just find it more and more stressful as they age. They just bought a new Toyota with all of the available accident avoidance systems, and they love it.
Nobody here has been to the Villages in FL (Score:5, Informative)
Reading these comments, it seems nobody has actually been to the Villages in Florida.
The summary is right, it's huge -- it goes on and on and on. What it leaves out, though, is that the entire place is meant to be navigable on foot but mostly via golf cart. Everybody there has a customized golf cart, and you can go anywhere in the Villages via golf cart and everyone does. There's almost no automobile traffic.
The place is split up into "towns" with each one having a little town square and often its own recreational features (pools, community centers, golf courses, etc). They're all open to all Villages residents, too, and the little squares have businesses that are unique.
It's also pretty affluent -- the newer parts of the Villages are pretty luxurious and I think they get a lot of money for the homes/townhouses. The older parts are more similar to small prefab houses, but I think the whole place is in demand and while parts are cheaper, none are cheap. (Side fact: very high STD incidence in the Villages).
Anyway, it seems like a reasonable place to test self-driving cars due to the limited traffic. The downside is you'll never pull these people out of their golf carts. I'd wager that there are people who can't drive a car but still drive their golf cart. Plus, most of the residents are still in a pretty mobile/independent stage of living. If you already can't drive at all, you probably have other problems that make living in your own home a challenge, limiting the audience for self-driving cars.
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I lived in Leesburg.
Those people already can't drive. If they leave the Villages, they operate their car as if they were in a golf cart. Badly.
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Let me guess: if you try to leave a Rover will pursue you?
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To be honest, the Villages is about as good as it gets for senior living.
I'm not sure I'd want to be there at age 55, but it's actually a hell of lot nicer than senior living options in most other places.
Honestly, I think it'll will be the young... (Score:2)
that will lead the Self-Driving Revolution.
I get the article and it give a good insight. But when I think it been 20 years that I remind my mother that she don't need to double-click a link on her facebook, I'm pretty sure the elderly won't be too thrilled about automomus car.
On the other hand I look at myself. I got a car with a manual transmission and, once, I told a techie friend that I'm not gonna buy a self-driving car because I love to drive. But then he told me that not only and I could play with my
Theft issue (Score:1)
Jitterbug for Cars (Score:1)
Nothing strange about that (Score:1)
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Obviously, the service time interval in the event a technician's presence
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Nah, it'll be millennials (Score:2)
Millennials are the ones not purchasing cars or bothering to learn to drive or get licenses. They'll be the ones pushing for the robotic driver revolution.
Tesla to the rescue! (Score:2)
I'm 70 and have a Tesla. The car gets regular software updates to improve it's Autopilot and safe driving capabilities.
I'm hoping that the car will improve at least as fast as my abilities decline so it can take over as I become feeble.
But... (Score:2)
In AI news... (Score:1)
In other news, AI researchers were startled to discover that self-driving AI's trained on Florida streets now leave their left blinkers on all the time.