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The Almighty Buck Bitcoin China Government

Bitcoin Plunges Below $12,000 To Six-Week Low Over Crackdown Fears (cnbc.com) 174

Bitcoin plunged to a six-week low Tuesday after comments from South Korea's finance minister renewed worries about a crackdown in one of the largest markets for digital currency trading. In a radio program interview, South Korean Finance Minister Kim Dong-yeon said that "the shutdown of virtual currency exchanges is still one of the options" the government has. CNBC reports: Bitcoin dropped more than 17 percent to a low of $11,182.71 on Tuesday, falling below $12,000 for the first time since December 5, according to CoinDesk. CoinDesk's bitcoin price index tracks prices from cryptocurrency exchanges Bitstamp, Coinbase, itBit and Bitfinex. As of 12:13 p.m. ET, bitcoin was trading more than 13 percent lower at $11,759.73 a coin, according to CoinDesk. Trading in South Korean won accounted for about 4 percent of bitcoin trading volume, according to CryptoCompare. U.S. dollar-bitcoin trading had the largest share at 40 percent, the website showed. Other major digital currencies including ethereum and ripple also fell significantly. According to CoinMarketCap data, ethereum was trading at $1,051.83, down more than 20 percent in the last 24 hours, before lifting slightly to $1,117.72. Ripple fell almost 27 percent to $1.33 a token before recovering slightly to $1.36.
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Bitcoin Plunges Below $12,000 To Six-Week Low Over Crackdown Fears

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  • The Bitcoin rate isn't stable.
    • Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:36PM (#55942025)

      No it is not.

      If I were a gambling man, I'd be tempted to invest now. Seems a big overreaction to cause this to make it drop 50% of value.

      But I'm not a gambling man. Yes, I was born a rambling man.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Bitcoin is a risky investment.

        You called it "gambling". But you aren't "a gambling man".

        Analysts in the media have stated that Bitcoin's price is largely the result of 4 promoters of the currency. This is another way of saying it is a MLM or a game of musical chairs, last one holding the currency gets burnt.

        Congrats to the 4 guys who have managed to skyrocket the currency in the last 12 months --- possibly because it is nice a vehicle for money laundering in Asia (particularly China). Warren Buffett say

      • I'm more of ramblin' guy [youtube.com] myself.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        If I were a gambling man, I'd be tempted to invest now. Seems a big overreaction to cause this to make it drop 50% of value.

        The whales are driving the price down because the first of the futures contracts come due tomorrow. They'll drive it back up when they want to take profits.

        Remember, 2.5% of all addresses hold 97% of all BTC/Blockstream Core bitcoins. Go add up the numbers yourself from a Bitcoin Rich List.

      • personally if I was a gambler I would favour more significant drops to come. the overreaction was the stupid spike in price, the fact that a 50% drop only puts it back to where it was 6 weeks ago is the serious issue and will have burnt a few idiot speculators who will flee the market.
      • If I were a gambling man, I'd be tempted to invest now. Seems a big overreaction to cause this to make it drop 50% of value.

        If I remember a recent Ars Technica article correctly, bitcoin has had 4 hyperbolic spikes in prices similar to the current one. After each there was about a 75% drop in price. The last one was in 2014, up to $1,100, then down to $250-300 and staying there for years until the current spike to $19,000 occurred.

        But now we have a new variable. Those past spikes were when bitcoin owners were largely geek speculators who were also true believers in bitcoin. This current spike coincided with wall street specul

      • No it is not.

        If I were a gambling man, I'd be tempted to invest now. Seems a big overreaction to cause this to make it drop 50% of value.

        But I'm not a gambling man. Yes, I was born a rambling man.

        I bought a little after the first crash after the run-up. Not so much because I thought I'd make a lot of money, but missing out on the massive rise was annoying, and in a weird bit of psychology being in the market took away that annoyance.

        I don't know when this tumble will stop (of course, no one does), we're going to see a few big price shocks down as big holders start walking away from the table a bit (there's not much volume) and the fundamental tech issues remain. I doubt it will hit $20k again in a y

      • You should compare the 5 year market price of bitcoin to the published models of a bubble. Take note where we are on the bursting part and then consider yourself lucky you're not that gambling man.

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:23PM (#55941941)

    If the price is BitCoin is falling over fears of crackdowns, doesn't that mean that it's no longer primarily used by criminals?

    If so, then obviously BitCoin has just gained a lot of respectability, ensuring its future rise.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:28PM (#55941981)

      Not at all. Criminals want a currency that can be traded for real money - and if it cannot be, they'll abandon it too.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Bitcoin is primarily used to evade currency controls and pay for illegal goods. With a looming crackdown, demand from these use cases drops, and a drop in demand is a drop in price. With an actual crackdown, demand and price will drop much further. Legal use cases are stymied by the slow and expensive transactions due to the limited block size.

      • by mhkohne ( 3854 )

        Legal transactions were inhibited by the block rate long before the blocksize limits pushed the transaction fees up. Bitcoin is no good for everyday use for a LOT of reasons.

    • by DogDude ( 805747 )
      What in the hell are you talking about? What does the price falling have to do with criminals using it?
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The reason it is falling is speculative. Latest news with potential negative effect on bitcoin price, bitcoin is worthless, bitcoin has many flaws which in the long term means it is worthless, bitcoin crackdown, warren buffet says crypto are worthless, don't invest in bitcoin (investment guidance article), etc...

      So we do know that bitcoin price is dropping. The reason, it is getting harder to find people who will pay the current price of bitcoin so the sellers are swamping the buyers. Now you have the panic

      • by Anonymous Coward

        I sold my house, car, wife and kids and put the money in bitcoin. Do I
        A. Sell now before I get nothing back and take a huge loss
        B. Hold on with a deep fear that bitcoin price will never recover and possibly go back to 2010 price ( 0.1 cents)
        C. Check myself into a mental hospital due to the stress
        D. .... (best not talk about it)

        E. You lament the loss of your house and car, but then you cheer up because at least you got rid of your wife and kids!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      If so, then obviously BitCoin has just gained a lot of respectability, ensuring its future rise.

      The market has never responded so strongly to threats of regulation before. This on again, off again promise of Sth Korea to ban crypto-collectables simply isn't the main reason for this drop, that explanation is just people struggling to come to grips with the basic fact: "Bitcoin is over," which is to say the days of Bitcoin's meteoric rise is over, the bubble popped, and the ride-catching speculators are mo

      • come to grips with the basic fact: "Bitcoin is over,"

        Says the AC with no possibility to fact-check him in the future should he be proven wrong...

        which is to say the days of Bitcoin's meteoric rise is over, the bubble popped

        So you are saying that the $11k price BTC is now at, is the natural floor... got it.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    You were saying "it's going to crash any day now" when each bitcoin was $1.00
    You were saying "it's going to crash any day now" when each bitcoin was $10.00
    You were saying "it's going to crash any day now" when each bitcoin was $100.00
    You were saying "it's going to crash any day now" when each bitcoin was $1000.00
    You were saying "it's going to crash any day now" when each bitcoin was $10000.00

    Geez, why isn't it 100k yet? Isn't bitcoin perfect and immune to crashing?

  • by HornWumpus ( 783565 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:34PM (#55942009)

    The main purpose of bitcoin was stated as 'avoiding government capital controls'.

    Pushing it underground will help, no tracing your wallet because you used it to buy coffee. Just a pure 'fuck you' to the government.

    They can't keep drugs out of maximum security prisons. They will fail at controlling bitcoin. Yeah, people. Boo, government.

    • by SpankiMonki ( 3493987 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @07:03PM (#55942209)

      The main purpose of bitcoin was stated as 'avoiding government capital controls'.

      LOL wut? Where are you getting this from? There is NOTHING in the Satoshi Paper regarding 'avoiding government capital controls'.

      • by HornWumpus ( 783565 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @07:47PM (#55942501)

        He has many posts besides the original paper.

        http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitu... [nakamotoinstitute.org]

        Which doesn't say it as explicitly as I remember. But it's clear. Bitcoin is intended to avoid controls, banks, governments etc.

        There is more in there, but apparently the people that curate 'quotable' don't want to stir up too much shit.

        • The word "government" appears twice in the posts attributed to Satoshi Nakamoto on that site. [google.com]

          The word "capital" does not appear in the posts attributed to Satoshi Nakamoto on that site. [google.com]

          The word "control" appears in 14 posts attributed to Satoshi Nakamoto on that site. [google.com]

          Not one of the posts revealed by the above searches mentions anything about the purpose of bitcoin being to avoid government capital controls.

          I've NEVER seen anything purporting to be from "Satoshi" that outlines the goals/motivation for th

    • So at some point, if you're a business accepting/using BTC, you need to eventually convert it to real currency (so you can pay suppliers, workers, utilities, rent, etc). And you need to record those receipts/expenses in a form that the Government will recognize so you can do your taxes and reporting. So how does that help give a "fuck you" to the Government when you buy/sell something with BTC?

      Or are you suggesting that your entire supply chain (including rent, utilities, employees) all use BTC and that y

  • Geepers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Northdot ( 1585317 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:35PM (#55942017)

    Coinbase shows it's at $10K (as of 15:30 MST on Tuesday). Down 28 percent in one day.

    Hope all you speculators have iron nerves!

  • I didn't win (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:35PM (#55942021)
    I should have bought when it was $7 a BC, but I would have sold it at $14
    • by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

      No kidding. A co-worker talks of buying a few handfuls at $10 and getting out at $100 to buy a new gaming rig. At the time he was really thrilled with the turnout. That was the first I'd really heard of it, and it was already at the "mining them costs more in electricity than you get in coins" point, so I brushed it off as not worth the trouble.

      Of course, I probably would have also had all my coins lost or stolen in the various scandals, and I'd be sitting here talking about what could have been, like that

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It always makes me laugh when people say things like "if I'd only bought Bitcoin at $100, I'd be a millionaire now". Really? You wouldn't have sold at $200, $500, $1000? I certainly would, at least a good fraction of my gains.

        My Ethereum holdings are currently doing a good impression of a rollercoaster. It's quite exciting - I'm starting to understand the thrill some people get from gambling. But in the long run I think I'll get out - sitting in your underpants looking at a GDAX screen isn't a great way to

        • by Kaenneth ( 82978 )

          I sold one third when it tripled; everything since then is free money. My original investment amount is back in USD, but I got several times that in crypto now

    • Re:I didn't win (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @08:11PM (#55942627)

      Wisdom that.

      I had a friend who bought $20k of google at its IPO circa $75, and he was kicking himself for selling at $160. I told him: "No, you had actual logical reasons for believing $75 was too low, and you sold when you ran out of reasons to believe it was still too low. That is called investing."

      • Investing is when you join a company during founding or later during capital increase.

        Everything you do at the stock market is speculation and not investing.

    • It's knowing that that is the only reason I'm not beyond depressed about not buying in.

  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:36PM (#55942023)
  • by Anonymous Coward

    How much does it cost now for 1 transaction?

  • by ArylAkamov ( 4036877 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:47PM (#55942115)

    Time to buy everything at a discount. Please, keep selling.

  • In a previous thread I asked, how does a public blockchain die? More exactly what are the 'death throes' as one reduces in popularity?

    For people, what happens when a blockchain falls in popularity because 'all' the fools have moved on to the next big 'coin', and there is no reason to keep using this particular token because it has already failed as a currency due to ridiculous transaction fees and times?

    When a blockchain has all of its arbitrarily predetermined tokens mined, what keeps the miners from mo

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      When a blockchain has all of its arbitrarily predetermined tokens mined, what keeps the miners from moving on to the next big 'coin'? Well heck for that matter when the rate of newly mined tokens falls below some rate or if its even getting close to the end of the number of tokens would some already start to migrate?

      For Bitcoin, whenever you do a transaction, you specify how much you want to pay for the transaction. That money goes to the miner that locks the transaction into the blockchain. That's why the

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        To answer Mr307, what you said sets the stage for how Bitcoin could die. The miners demand higher and higher fees from the user, stifling its popularity growth. The miners themselves sour on Bitcoin, because newer and technically superior new blockchain ecosystems offer more consistent profits. And then someday someone with a biggish pile of Bitcoin dies and the heirs want to cash out. A sudden influx of must sell Bitcoin on the market crushes the price at every exchange.
      • As we move closer to all the tokens being mined the fees have to increase to keep people participating in the network.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      https://imperium.news/20-inside-failure-cascade/

      This is like a fucking handbook on how large groups of people act. We haven't even hit sustained adversity yet. Buy.

  • by foxalopex ( 522681 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:54PM (#55942161)

    It's somewhat ironic that everything folks cited that was a plus to BitCoin is turning out to be the exact oppose:

    1. No government or central body control.
    Except when countries decide to ban it causing market crashes.
    2. Good currency for goods.
    Except when it yo-yos so badly that no sane vendor will use it because they can't predict prices.
    3. Good for investing.
    Except that it's so unstable it's closer to gambling.
    4. Needing control of more than half the bitcoin network to take over means the rich won't be able to get to it.
    Except they can and do by putting a lot of money (which I assume they can afford to lose) into the market in a bid to control it. The sad truth is very few people control almost the entire market.
    5. Low resource overhead.
    Only the computational network that's running bitcoin is blowing more resources than some small thou admittedly "poor" countries.

    At the end of the day, it seems if you were there early and out at the peak then you won. But overall the whole system seems worse or more world wrecking than country issued currency. I wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin crashes badly or dies someday leaving a sour taste in crytocurrency.

    • At the end of the day, it seems if you were there early and out at the peak then you won. But overall the whole system seems worse or more world wrecking than country issued currency. I wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin crashes badly or dies someday leaving a sour taste in crytocurrency.

      Bitcoin is like an IPO for a company listed as NUTN, with a prospectus that says they have no assets and their business plan is to do nothing, but helpfully points out that its stock will have some inherent value so long as smart people like you want to buy it.

      Unlike the tulip and wooden nose bubbles, buying cryptocurrency is speculating on nothing.

    • you left out where the heavy buy/sell can mean days of waiting for transactions - yeah it's liquid, like molasses in January, on Neptune

    • The sad truth is very few people control almost the entire market.

      I've been saying this for years now as a rebuttal to those who claim crypto or gold are better than the Fed. Under the Fed, the money supply is controlled by a board with some political influence via our elected officials. There are a lot of complaints about the Fed, some more justified than others. Under gold or crypto, the money supply is controlled by powerful speculators who have NO transparency, and no political influence via our el

    • Bitcoin: the power of Nothing!
    • I wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin crashes badly or dies someday leaving a sour taste in crytocurrency.

      And it should. Bitcoin is, and always has been, a scam to separate stupid people from their money. Some people with money to burn saw this and bought in early, while Bitcoin was merely absurdly overpriced (and I envy those people for their foresight/good luck). Now that the Bitcoin curtain is being drawn back to reveal the shady players behind it, those people are cashing out and making a killing while Bitcoin is ludicrously overpriced. But the sad thing is that dumb people are being taken to cleaners o

  • by Anonymous Coward

    In a couple weeks, I'll be able to buy a 1080 Ti for less than the cost of a decent used car.

  • Just killed all my cows and have plenty of those beefcoins!

    • by Nkwe ( 604125 )

      Just killed all my cows and have plenty of those beefcoins!

      Sure they aren't medallions instead of coins?

      • by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

        I don't know about that, but I know I like to fork my beefcoins every chance I get.

        Darn it, there's a diversification into chicken-coins/chicken-tenders/legal tender joke that I'm failing to pull off right now.

    • You may have beefcoins but you now have to worry about a chort attacking you.
      FYI that is a Witcher 3 reference.

  • Is really all I have to say about that....If anyone was so stupid to jump on cryptocurrency....
  • But it will be soon at 40.000, because that is why I invested everyting I had and maxed out my credit cards and loaned money from "Friendly Tony". FYI, I think that name is not really how he is. Quick poll, right knee or left one? At least he gave me as much choice as the US political system. SELL. SELL. SELL. SELLLLLL...

  • by slashmydots ( 2189826 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @05:21AM (#55944475)
    South Koreans have to own less than 1% of actively traded and cold wallet bitcoins. So if they all were legally obligated to sell them off at the same time within 24 hours, it wouldn't tank the price this hard even. So really it's just stupid people overreacting while I'm sitting here re-buying at $11,000.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Then you're not paying attention to how bitcoin is being traded and manipulated.

      If 1% of all bitcoin were sold at the same time, bitcoin would go to zero long before that 1% were sold. Trading volume is microscopic compared to the number of bitcoins in existence, and trading volume by relatively few big players makes up the vast majority of that microscopic pool. Most bitcoins never change hands.
  • Just keep making scary announcements then buy low!
  • If a government does not like cryptocurrencies, it is against individual freedom and pro central government control.

    As the current US mis-leadership is against that freedom, why is every redneck and Wall Street parasite not out to remove it?

    It is pretty obvious why China does not like Bitcoin. How come the US, UK, South Korea and Japan (to name a few) are in bed with them in this attempt to stop the spread of the next stage of the growth of the free market?

  • .. said no rational being, ever. Those jumping in at $15k+ thinking they were going to make a killing did - only they killed themselves. Bubbles are for chumps.

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