Apple and Google Are Rerouting Their Employee Buses as Attacks Resume (mashable.com) 292
Slashdot reader sqorbit writes:
Apple runs shuttle buses for it's employees in San Francisco. It seems someone who is not happy with Apple has decided to take out their anger on these buses. In an email obtained by Mashable, Apple states "Due to recent incidents of broken windows along the commute route, specifically on highway 280, we're re-routing coaches for the time being. This change in routes could mean an additional 30-45 minutes of commute time in each direction for some riders." It has been reported that at least four buses have had windows broken, some speculating that it might caused by rubber bullets.
"Around four years ago, people started attacking the shuttle buses that took Google employees to and from work, as a way of protesting the tech-company-driven gentrification taking place around San Francisco," remembers Fortune, adding "it seems to be happening again."
At least one Google bus was also attacked, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, which adds that the buses "were not marked with company logos, and the perpetrators are suspected of broadly targeting technology shuttle buses rather than a specific company."
"Around four years ago, people started attacking the shuttle buses that took Google employees to and from work, as a way of protesting the tech-company-driven gentrification taking place around San Francisco," remembers Fortune, adding "it seems to be happening again."
At least one Google bus was also attacked, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, which adds that the buses "were not marked with company logos, and the perpetrators are suspected of broadly targeting technology shuttle buses rather than a specific company."
Parallels (Score:5, Funny)
Re: throws spears at helicopters (Score:2, Insightful)
It reminds me that my grandfather with a high school degree could buy a house in my town, my parents with college degrees could, but even with a Master's I am hard-pressed to do so.
Maybe if we encouraged density over NIMBYism we wouldn't be held in regulatory capture by today's feudal landlording class.
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And London discourages density--the "greenbelt" zoning practiced by the government prevents the construction of any suburbs to provide large amounts of low-cost housing to the population.
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Or, you know, people using their computers to work remotely.
For those fond of the way things were, you could leave a heavy weight with built-in heat-pad on a chair at their office and work remotely.
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That works out well for people whose jobs are done only on a computer and don't require F2F interaction with others.
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Sure but it reduces the number of people living close and commuting. Just because it doesn’t work for everyone, doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.
[John]
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I'm curious to know how people who assemble the high-tech sensors that are the product my company sells are going to "work remotely". "Ship parts to their homes" is NOT an answer for lots of obvious and non-obvious reasons.
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You know...there ARE other cities and states you CAN afford to live in, right?
I don't believe there is any "right to live" in an area you just can't afford.....
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Besides that, rents are increasing vs. wages all across the United States. Considering that you can't make your employe
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Re: throws spears at helicopters (Score:2)
Turning off "smart" punctuation in your keyboard settings would be a smart move.
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"Reminds me of that isolate tribe of people on a remote island who throws spears at helicopters."
Firearms against civilians reminds me of domestic terrorism.
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You remind me of imbeciles.
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You remind us what "off-topic" means.
Re: Parallels (Score:2)
Reminds me of the people who shoot at drones as a general procedure
Re: Parallels (Score:2)
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Apple runs shuttle buses for it's employees in San Francisco.
Apple runs shuttle buses for it is employees?
Don't sweat it, it's only superfluous water in the form of text in this case, as indeed sweating with it is. Superfluous verbiage is a curse of the internet, however correction of the header phrase to "Apple runs shuttle buses for employees in San Francisco." is a little beyond the editing skill of the average submission made on Slashdot, its part of the culture as is the gentrification and genderfication at Apple and Google.
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Grammar nazi makes mistake of his own. News at 11.
Gentrification (Score:2)
Gentrification: Moving into a Shit Hole and making it less of a Shit Hole.
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The difference being that those spears have no chance of hitting the helicopters
However there have been several instances of people being killed when they went ashore because their boat wrecked or in an attempt to make contact with the Sentinelese people.
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Obvious troll is obvious.
I can see why they blame these companies (Score:5, Funny)
After all, San Francisco was a quiet, inexpensive little town to live in - right up until Apple and Google moved into the area. In fact, no one had even heard of the place until around 2000.
Actually indeed before ~1995 it was liveable (Score:5, Insightful)
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*MdPAr5dt5AH73H1mO_NahQ.jpeg
It is CPI adjusted so reflects indeed an appreciation/gentrification rather than inflation.
Even if you are house owner you can easily understand what this means : imagine your house which had a monthly cost of 600$-700$ (inflation adjusted cost) now has a monthly average cost of 4000$. Would you be able to keep it ? no ? Well that is what is happening to some people, and those with the weakest salaries are pushed further and further away meaning their cost increase both in time cost (travel time) and in transportation cost, or go in worst neighborhood if you can.
Basically I forsee a wall coming to SF bay area, something will have to break.
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What has succh an influence on 'cost of the house' when you _own_ it?
You don't get it right ? (Score:2)
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I was saying if you are property owner, to get a representation of the plight the renter suffer in the bay area, IMAGINE that your house cost (property tax, reparation cost etc...) went from 600$ to 4000$... Are you getting it now ? It would make it unlivable and you would have to sell. And no buying a new one would not help if it has the SAME 4000$ price tag. You would be out priced for housing and pushed outward... which is what is happening for a lot of folk. And quite a lot of people on slashdot are hard at grasping at that.
The part I'm having trouble grasping is why someone forced you or anyone to live and work there. If housing is ridiculously overpriced in my area, I'll sell my house move to another area and pocket the profit. As I noted before, I could have worked in places like DC or Cali, but some simple math told me I was better off living and working in a less crowded market. I was making roughly 80 percent of what I could get there, and living costs were roughly half.
But hey, if you signed a contract that requires
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Too bad you sandbagged it by leading off with a pointless, extended ad hominem.
There was nothing pointless about it. I was pointing out that the poster to whom I was responding was working so hard at baffling people with their bullshit that they themselves were baffled, and lost the thread of their FUD.
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> Too many people rent rather than own their property.
And how exactly do you buy even a "small 1 miilion dollar condo"? Let's look at a hypothetical purchase...
* 3% mortgage; so you're paying approx $30,000/year in interest alone, at the start of the mortgage
* pay down $500 per month of principal per month. Call it $6,000/year
* property taxes $9,000 per year
You're looking at $45,000 per year PIT (Principal, Interest, Taxes) *ON THE CONDO ALONE*. You also need to live, eat, buy clothes, etc. The bank rule
Re: Actually indeed before ~1995 it was liveable (Score:2, Informative)
Prop 13 limits increases to 2% per year. It takes 35 years for your property taxes to double.
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You are making a bad joke at the expanse of those folk living there... But the reality is that *inflation adjusted* rent and house price are insane.
Basically I forsee a wall coming to SF bay area, something will have to break.
Google will build a wall, and make SF pay for it!
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? Well that is what is happening to some people, and those with the weakest salaries are pushed further and further away meaning their cost increase both in time cost (travel time) and in transportation cost, or go in worst neighborhood if you can. Basically I forsee a wall coming to SF bay area, something will have to break.
But someone is apparently paying those prices. Me? Unless I was making enough money to afford to live near my work, I'd not be employed there. A friend's daughter works in SF, makes 6 figures, and has to have a roommate to make ends meet. But she does it. I suspect for bragging rights.
I could have lived and worked in DC or Cali, But some simple math told me that although I'd be paid more, my overall financial condition would be worse.
tl;dr version - As long as people are willing to pay the price, the
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Participation in the madness is voluntary.
Not for someone who was already renting there. Some are protected by rent control, but I am sure not all.
You are on point for anyone who actively moves to SF now.
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Other than the folk living there, who keeps voting against the housing developments that would increase housing supply and lower home prices and rents in the area?
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Even if you are house owner you can easily understand what this means : imagine your house which had a monthly cost of 600$-700$ (inflation adjusted cost) now has a monthly average cost of 4000$.
The cost would only go up if you were renting. There are usually caps on property tax increases to avoid things like that happening to homeowners. Even if property taxes shot up, you could rent out your house for a bunch of money to make up for it. You'd have to move, but if rents are that high you could probably pay off the mortgage pretty quickly that way.
If you owned your house you could sell it for a tidy profit, or keep it as you saw fit. If you don't own your own house, you can't really complain about
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Or, if you're smarter than a sack of hammers, you'll buy another house somewhere cheap, and retire on the difference. Or rent, if you want to keep working in that area.
Heck, that worked for two different families I'm friends with: they sold their home near the peak of a real estate bubble, and one rented until the bubble collapsed, while the other moved to Europe. Each pocketed severed hundred thousand dollars.
It sucks to be the new guy who has to move there, but just don't be that guy (unless the pay mor
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And then where do you live? There's no place cheap to move to.
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And then where do you live? There's no place cheap to move to.
This reminds me of the coal miner's dilemma only in the opposite direction. They don't want to move, but there are no jobs. The Silicon Valley worker can hardly afford their housing, but they don't want to move either.
But both the coal miner and Silicon Valley worker are suffering from inertia. San Francisco or the Allegheies might be charming, but it is a big country, with many places to work and live.
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It's a common trap because the people living there see that some other people are making even more money, and think that if they can just hang on long enough to get to that level they can be super rich. In reality they just create a feedback loop that pushes up prices with little improvement in the odds of them "making it".
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If your work is in Silicon Valley, that's likely to be difficult. Your employer may be willing to let you telecommute, but they're not likely to let you telecommute from Texas; they're going to expect you to come to the office once in a while.
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Plenty of jobs in other tech cities, and they'll be delighted to have you. I just moved out of Seattle, as it had become insane, to Texas. Definite step up.
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Now people not only have a 'right' to a house, they have a right to a house where they want it?
People live where they can afford, if there aren't enough shit job workers, the pay for shit jobs goes up (and they live 4 to a room, at the end of a long commute).
This is _not_ broken, this is how the world works. It's the best way to allocate limited resources.
SF has been unaffordable for decades. The people bitching are entitled 'trust fund shits' who's trust fund no longer covers SF. They had no sympath
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The only thing insane about it is that people still defend capitalism as if it worked. In our current system, there is nothing more sensible than the high rents and property values of SF.
It's not capitalism that has produced the insane housing prices in SF, it's government regulation. If the city were to open the floodgates on development, housing prices would come down. Even though San Francisco has a hard limit on available ground, there's still lots of room for building up. Big sections of row houses would be replaced with high-rise apartment buildings. Double or triple the housing available and demand would no longer so far outstrip supply and prices would fall.
And it's not just SF re
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Now you're a civil engineer too?
I don't want to live in SF, Hong Kong or Manhattan. Those that do obviously don't think it's too dense.
It's obviously physically possible to build deep foundations and build up, not everywhere, but enough places.
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The old gentry doesn't like being pushed out by the new gentry.
Stories from a Company Town (Score:5, Interesting)
Never lived in SF, but I grew up somewhere a megacorp set up shop.
At first, everyone was really excited, because there were going to be all these jobs! Hooray! There were some construction jobs whilst it was being built; folks bought new houses, new trucks. It was pretty nice. Unfortunately when it was done, the only jobs that the locals were qualified for were janitorial, canteen and security. Not surprising; Rural Nowhere doesn't have a massive stock of biotech scientists and chemical engineers just sat waiting for a pharma plant to be built.
But at least the area was going to get rich off the taxes, right? Well, see, to get the plant, the state and municipality had cut a special deal for "innovating job creators", so the firm was basically getting paid to be here. 90% of property taxes go to the state, so even though property tax revenues would be higher, the local services wouldn't see much of it.
As people moved in from out of state (mostly existing employees of the company from plants they'd shut down, but some new hires), a few people in town made what they thought was a pretty penny selling property to them. Of course, the house prices in Nowhere were pretty low, so when they tried to use the money to buy elsewhere, they couldn't get as much house as they'd sold. When house prices started to rocket, rents got jacked up, and any locals who were renting was basically SOL. No way you could work at the gas station and pay rent on a one-bed apartment, so you'd better get real friendly with someone real fast or move back in with your folks.
The company knew they were sending their employees out to Nowhere, so they'd planned ahead. Subsidised employee daycare, canteen, gym, even a subsidised laundry and convenience store on site. Outside the fence, the local shops and services had to either compete with the subsidised prices or accept that most of the company folk weren't ever going to come in.
The local schools got swamped with new kids; rich and poor kids mixing there was about the only good thing to come out of it. Of course, there wasn't a lot of extra money to deal with it, and the huge wealth disparity definitely caused some problems. Suddenly parents were demanding more AP classes, more after-school clubs and activities and generally expecting higher standards. Some of that was good - I wouldn't have got where I am without it - but the budget-strapped school spending resources on activities that only a few could afford to do created a lot of tension. We had a new swimming pool and textbooks that were falling apart; of course company kids had shiny new ones their parents had ordered for them.
After ten years, the house prices had increased from about 25% below to 50% above the state average; about half the existing population had been forced out by rising property prices and rents, many local businesses had been empty for years due to the loss of trade and the competition from subsidised on-site businesses. I've just graduated with a relevant STEM degree (I actually got a small bursary from the company and the offer of an interview if I maintained a 3.5 GPA), and the company has decided to shut down the plant. They've come up with a new way to make the thing they were producing, and it's cheaper to build a new plant in a new town (with new tax breaks, of course) than to update their existing plant. So in a few months they will be gone, as will half of the town's population. Anyone who struggled to buy a house there or took out a second mortgage to exploit the rising value will be underwater, and we'll be left with really nice school and no kids to fill it, and thus no money to maintain it.
The company attached itself to our town like a parasite; they used the existing public infrastructure for their own benefit without without paying a dime. They broke the local economy, made it depend on them, and then cast it aside when it was no longer convenient, leaving behind a dying husk of what used to be a small but pleasant town. The worst part is that the best and brightest of the local kids are now working for the company, and excited to move to this new picturesque little town across the state where the new plant is being built... myself included.
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So what you're saying is that nothing is ever the fault of a big megacorp.
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So what you're saying is that nothing is ever the fault of a big megacorp.
No, what I'm saying is ... exactly what I said.
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But at least you did get around to telling us you're personally the best and brightest.
He's just saying he was lucky to go through school at the right time.
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Given the competition over Amazon's second headquarters and sports stadiums, think this is a pretty common "short sightedness"
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That's entirely your interpretation
I don't need to "interpret" anything ... it's his own words:
best and brightest of the local kids ... myself included.
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So which "state" was this? In the US, property taxes are usually assessed and collected by local (county, city, town, etc.) governments, and that's what funds local services like police and schools. 90% of them don't go to any state that I know of.
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Almost Any State, USA.
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Almost Any State, USA.
Um, no, in what state do 90% of property taxes go to the state? That's not common.
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In areas where property taxes are assessed and collected by a more-local-than-state government, corporations will insist on a 10-20 year break on those taxes. Long enough for the plant to be made obsolete.
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No, he's repeating derp told him by his commie middle school teacher. Adults could do better, even a dumb adult would do better, unless they were going to tell the story to gullible kids.
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San Francisco used to be one of my favorite places before the tech boom. And yes, it was a very different kind of place in the 70s and 80s. It's a lot like Key West, or Waikiki. Rich people are attracted to a place because of the funky character, then the money they bring in turns it into an EPCOT version of itself.
Look more closely (Score:5, Funny)
Telecommuting (Score:2)
Re:Telecommuting (Score:5, Insightful)
Some problems are solvable by telecommuting, some problems aren't.
Stuff that involves hardware (which hey, Apple does a lot of) really cannot be done by telecommuting until you get full telepresence robots (and even then, some things really require you to be there - engineer's knack, for example). Expensive test equipment may be utilized, or even just general tools like oscilloscopes. And then there's physical hardware that requires transportation, Apple's already secretive enough that new hardware has to be locked up and multiple layered security (so fat chance bringing it home).
There's also a lot of value in bringing the team together - collaboration can be much faster. Perhaps you come up with a cool idea, but then instead of just walking down the hall and presenting it, you have to type it up in an email or worse yet, the company IRC-like chat room (slack, whatever) and everyone misunderstands you so you spend another hour re-describing it. And heaven forbid you need to draw something...
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What is it with drawing indeed? It's XXI century and there are no tools that can replace good old scribbling on a whiteboard with the same efficiency.
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Wow, really? Are you literally trying to make this a partisan issue? What the is wrong with you?!
Hey, if the shoe fits, right? There's no mistaking the corporate culture and supported politics within the companies in question. It's a mindset. It's latched on to a single political party. So, yes, it's not at all unreasonable to point out what they have in common, and how ironic it is that the party that pretends to be for the little people is the one that so often treats them with such disdain. It's why the Democrats lost nearly a thousand legislative seats, most of the governorships, both houses of co
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they can't govern enough to even pass a budget with their supposed control
Not sure why we should bother contemplating anything you mutter about when you can't even muster the energy to understand how appropriation bills work as long as the senate still provides for filibustering. Consider a basic civics course before trotting out your phony condescension.
No, you can't gerrymander your way in to most of the governorships falling out of Democrat control. Those are state-wide elections. Just like senate races. But you carry on and rant about a thing you don't like (unless the De
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Many do have employees telecommuting from India and China.
Or even Sweden.
riiiiiight (Score:2)
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Firearms are loud. Their use draws a lot of attention.
BB guns aren't silent, although they're nowhere near as loud as firearms. Also, paintball guns with the paintballs frozen can easily break windows, but they aren't particularly quiet either.
Slingshots are close to silent. Unless you're near either the shooter or the line of fire, you're unlikely to notice. I think there is some merit in suggesting slingshots may be the weapon of choice here.
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Rubber bullets are a "non-lethal" alternative that is lethal unless used properly. It makes sense to ban them, as they lower the imagined cost to shooting someone, without lowering the real risk nearly as much.
Also, California has stricter gun laws than most states
For all of us old farts who rock the keyboard (Score:2)
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Oh good, I heard timecube.com was looking for a new writer.
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Maybe you should take the little pink pills next time?
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Being old is a sin at Apple? I'll tell my brother. He works at Apple and is over 50 years of age..
Also California hasn't legalized recreational MJ yet, so I rather doubt it's available cafeteria dispensers.
Time for your annual physical there, deviated_pervert. Ask your doctor if you need to up your meds. Or perhaps you just need a high colonic cleansing, because you're obviously full of shit.
I just had a mega dump this morning and I did not even bother to post pictures of it on Faceplant. And no, I do not smoke up or need it to, I was simply poking fun at the uptight crowd of young coders riding on those buses who mostly do smoke up after sitting at a desk all day trying to be creative! Seems humour is a little beyond the comprehension level of quite a few nerds who post anonymously. #WOOOOSH
Or (Score:2)
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Right, all the cops and private detectives need to do is look for the neon sign over the perp, "Perp right here!". Easy.
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Pff (Score:3)
Which Windows? 7 10 XP?
Change in routes could mean an additional commute (Score:2)
protesting the tech-company-driven gentrification? (Score:2)
We all love Capitalism. Except when we hate it.
I grew up in California. Well into the 80s you could actually ride the cable cars without waiting in line for hours or taking out a second mortgage. You could even find a parking spot at Fisherman's Wharf.
Sigh
As a San Francisco native... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was economically ejected from the place I grew up in and which I love the most in the world. So on behalf of all of us middle class folk who don't work for a mega IT corporation, fuck Apple, fuck Google, and fuck all the rest of the corporate slave masters too.
I and my children cannot live there because we were not born into walth, and in my chosen profession one must live like a slave if they stay in the SF bay, with horrendous commutes, insane living costs and crushing mortgages.
To all of you who have not suffered through poverty until forced out of the SF region, fuck you too. You do not understand why we are so enraged, and should shut up with your defense of these soulless corporate monsters. I earned good money, had a good career, and it wasn't enough to ever buy a home or have a comfortable life.
AAAARRRRGGGHHH! It pisses me off.
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You made bad choices, live with the consequences. Suck it up.
That's hate crime (Score:2)
And it should be punished harder. Find the hooligans, and hang 'em up with proper inscription tags on all the routes.
Street view cams? (Score:3)
Google Street View cams and self driving car tech might be able to catch who is attacking the busses. Or just a video camera?
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Won't help if illegals are attacking.
Really? I didn't know that illegals were well known for their anti-gentrification stance.
But can you help me out here. What *sort* of illegals are we talking about here? J-walkers? Litterbugs? People forced to ride their bicycles on the footpath because of all the bus traffic?
Time for Apple & Google to move to Austin (Score:2)
Cali politicians act like parasites [sacbee.com] to advance their failed political policies [latimes.com] and transportation boondoggles [cbslocal.com].
Why locate a company in San Francisco? (Score:2)
Apple didn't start out in S.F.
Google didn't start out in S.F.
Companies that big can locate their offices anywhere they want.
Pick almost any city along route 5, and the housing prices for your employees would be an order of magnitude less.
Uber? (Score:2)
Basic supply - demand inequality (Score:3)
This is a basic supply issue on the housing market. However I don't see an easy solution. (There are simple solutions but implementing them would be really hard).
The area seems to vote against their longer term interest for small gains in short time. Cities roll over each other to get more tech jobs -- look at what's happening with Amazon HQ2 -- however almost none in the Bay Area want to host the employees of these tech companies in their boundaries. They enact all kinds of barriers against entry, yet what this ultimately causes is pain to existing residents.
The market is about 99% saturated. Any house that goes onto market for rent or sale is gobbled up in about a week or so, and I read that there was only 12 days of rolling supply. If buyers dot not bit ridiculously high prices for buying, or renters want basic amenities to be fixed (like broken sewer system), they lose to the competition. It is a race to the bottom.
The simple solution would be improving the supply. This can be done by updating zoning laws, changing parking limits, and repealing Prop 13 to improve schools, and re-balance economy. However all of them, while simple, affects existing residents in a very bad way, and there is little to no hope of ever getting any of them thru. People have looted their 401k, and went into significant debt to buy falling apart shacks at million dollar prices, and they would not want to wake up to a reality that their property is not actually worth that much.
So basically no solution in the short term.
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Why might someone attack these buses?
Mod up. At last an anon cowherd with a brain! Individuals who resort to this kind of tactic are either woefully lacking in self esteem or lack the intelligence, creativity and guts to act responsibly.
Re:"Progressives" (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously? So you think if you have an issue with a corporation you should take it out on the ordinary people who work for it, have little no say in company decisions and probably earn 1/20th what the directors are on? You are fucking idiot.
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Counterfire...get it done.
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It's not even "new money" in the aristocratic sense. Some of them may be getting large stock option grants or similar, but with SF/SV cost of living, it's not like they'll never have to worry about money ever agsin.
People are forgetting about the First Dotcom Bubble. Both SF and NYC were filled with paper millionaires back around 1999/2000. Only some escaped with their fortunes and once the bubble pops most of these Apple/Google employees will be back in the real world with the rest of us. Some might have a