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Youtube Businesses The Almighty Buck

YouTube Kids App Still Showing Disturbing Videos (bbc.co.uk) 169

YouTube says it is "very sorry" after more disturbing videos were found on the YouTube Kids app. From a report: BBC's Newsround found several videos not suitable for children, including one showing how to sharpen knives. Another had characters from children's cartoon Paw Patrol on a burning plane. YouTube has been criticised for using algorithms rather than human curators to decide what appears on YouTube Kids. In 2015, two child safety groups complained after disturbing videos were found on the YouTube Kids app. YouTube said it needed to "do more" to tackle inappropriate videos being seen by children. Newsround had arranged for five children to meet Google's Katie O'Donovan. They spoke about distressing videos they had seen on the main YouTube website and app. The videos included images of clowns with blood on them, scary advertisements and messages telling them someone was at their door.
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YouTube Kids App Still Showing Disturbing Videos

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    And this is unsuitable for children how?

    • Depends on the age (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @12:27PM (#56077067)
      That would depend on the age of the children. Sharpening knives is not a task any responsible parent would assign to a pre-schooler; and pre-schoolers are the target audience of the YouTube Kids app. Older children can easily figure out how to get to the real YouTube and find all the cutlery-based entertainment they want.
      • by laie_techie ( 883464 ) on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @01:34PM (#56077495)

        That would depend on the age of the children. Sharpening knives is not a task any responsible parent would assign to a pre-schooler; and pre-schoolers are the target audience of the YouTube Kids app. Older children can easily figure out how to get to the real YouTube and find all the cutlery-based entertainment they want.

        I wish I had mod points! When my boys use YouTube Kids, it's under my email address (they're too young to create their own Gmail accounts according to the ToS). There is no way for YouTube Kids to know which child is watching or their ages. As a result, the recommendations are based on both boys' viewing habits. I've actually submitted a request to Google to remedy this situation. Having a per user profile also allows them to use some sort of ratings system (such as MPAA) to filter what gets shown to whom. Even Netflix lets me indicate who is watching: myself, my wife, my older boy, or my younger boy. We all get good recommendations and I can configure the boys' profiles to filter stuff I feel is inappropriate.

        I started shooting before Kindergarten. Of course, back then my dad or grandpa would be present and teach all the proper safety rules. My nephews went on deer hunts at 5 with their dad. I learned to sharpen knives in Cub Scouts under the watchful eye of the den leader. Getting my own pocket knife was a reward for passing off merit badges and showing I was mature enough to handle it.

        My older boy is only 3, so I don't want him to learn gun and knife safety from a random stranger on the internet. He does help in the kitchen with adult supervision. He turns the handle when we make popcorn on the stove. He cooks his own scrambled eggs. He uses a butter knife to spread peanut butter on bread. Based on age and maturity level I don't let him use sharp knives. He has seen his older cousins shoot guns, but he hasn't yet pulled the trigger. As his parent, this is what I feel is appropriate for him. Other children mature more quickly or more slowly. Give us some ratings and let us define the filters.

        • I started shooting before Kindergarten. Of course, back then my dad or grandpa would be present and teach all the proper safety rules. My older boy is only 3, so I don't want him to learn gun and knife safety from a random stranger on the internet. He does help in the kitchen with adult supervision.

          That is why parenting needs to remain the responsibility of parents, not of technology. If you don't like what your children might see on the internet, restrict or remove their use of it. They don't need the internet to be a functional child.

          Use YOUR story. Your dad or your grandpa were present when you learned to shoot and taught you proper safety rules. Youtube wasn't around back then, but there's a physical parallel to draw - if they had taken you to massive gun show while you were a child, would the

      • That would depend on the age of the children. Sharpening knives is not a task any responsible parent would assign to a pre-schooler; and pre-schoolers are the target audience of the YouTube Kids app.

        From the Google Play store, describing the YouTube Kids app:

        "...make it safer and simpler for kids to explore the world through online video – from their favorite shows and music to learning how to build a model volcano..."

        Nothing like trumping knife safety with a little ethanoic acid...

    • I'm actually really relieved to see so many people calling this bit out. It's a great skill to have - I remember learning how to do it in boy scouts... and it's kind of therapeutic to watch. 10/10 would recommend.
      • I'm totally with you, but I'm also viewing this from an American perspective. The complaint and article hails from England where they view knives with an increasingly sinister connotation, as guns are largely unavailable and the news must have an object of fear. In the US, this object of fear has been a 6 - shot revolver.

        For example, rather than showing an unrelated 6-shot revolver in the top right corner as the new's anchor discusses 'violent crime,' an unrelated knife would be shown.

        What we see tod
    • If it's the video's I see my 5yo stumble on, it's usually not the act of sharpening knives. Usually it's more of an itchy and scratchy type cartoon venue, where there's some implied intent or even cartoon violence.

      I've seen quite a few of these sorts of things pop up, I'm not really sure what I think about them except that they're fairly dark. I usually grab the steering wheel at that point and go back to my little pony. But the trick is that if you let youtube do it's thing, it will inevitably lead back to

  • Sharpening Knives (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Is a useful skill. The earlier to learn the better.

    Why is that disturbing?

    • Is a useful skill. The earlier to learn the better.

      Why is that disturbing?

      Age and maturity are key. If a toddler sees someone sharpening a knife on YouTube, they might try to do it themselves without notifying a grownup. Toddlers lack the fine motor skills for sharpening a knife safely (plus might not understand the instructions correctly), creating an unsafe situation. One of my older brothers cut his hand badly trying to cut an apple with a butter knife because the sharp knives were out of his reach.

      • Yeah, but what does that say about using knives in a household with children? Out of fear that a child will try and emulate your actions that could be dangerous if done improperly, you never let them see you using a knife? Heaven forbid a child live in a house with stairways.

        If the video of knife sharpening was showing some kind of plainly unsafe method, or deliberately trying to trick people into doing something dangerous it'd be objectionable. Otherwise I can't see the harm in it. Kids will mimic every li

        • Yeah, but what does that say about using knives in a household with children? Out of fear that a child will try and emulate your actions that could be dangerous if done improperly, you never let them see you using a knife? Heaven forbid a child live in a house with stairways.

          If the video of knife sharpening was showing some kind of plainly unsafe method, or deliberately trying to trick people into doing something dangerous it'd be objectionable. Otherwise I can't see the harm in it. Kids will mimic every little thing that you do, and then try and make up their own ways of doing it just for fun. Do we really want to advocate for parents abstaining from all activities around their children which the child might not be able to do safely?

          There is this thing with the misnomer of common sense; apparently it's not that common. Anything can be taken to the extremes. When a baby is learning to crawl, we protect the stair cases with baby gates. As the child is ready, we open the baby baby gates as we traverse the stairs with the infant, ready to catch them if they fall more than a few steps. When the baby is more stable, we remove the baby gates all together. Appropriate protection based on the kid's age and maturity.

          When I was 9 some neighborhoo

          • I would argue that your Father was not humane in his dispatching of a mortally wounded cat. He prolonged its suffering so that he could euthanize it in a fashion that would be less traumatic for his own mental state. As my own Father once pointed out to me a single hard blow from a club like instrument is faster, simpler, and more humane. The reason your Father went to such lengths is that our society has for whatever reason decided to avoid the topic of death with children because we under estimate their a

  • When I was a kid we watched programmes about blacksmiths who made knives! I still have flashbacks.

    • I really don't know what to say to someone that thinks sharpening a knife isn't safe video content for a kid. Hell I sharpen my kitchen knifes on wet stones in the dining room. My kids will watch for the first couple minutes then get bored and do something else.

      • by Calydor ( 739835 )

        Hell, I would rather the kids know how to handle the knives properly than not!

      • I really don't know what to say to someone that thinks sharpening a knife isn't safe video content for a kid. Hell I sharpen my kitchen knifes on wet stones in the dining room. My kids will watch for the first couple minutes then get bored and do something else.

        You are deciding what's appropriate for your kids. You are creating a safe teaching environment. The same thing could be accomplished by screening instructions on regular You Tube and watching that video later with your kids. As a father of 2 toddler boys, I'd want my wife present to help keep the kids within viewing distance without trying to touch the knives. The difference is the age of my kids and yours. You Tube Kids markets itself to parents of toddlers and preschoolers. If you could create filters p

      • You need to use the approved "My Little Pony Whetstone".
    • by sinij ( 911942 )
      You are joking, I hope, but where I live there are actually attempts to ban clowns and clown costumes because some children are afraid of clowns.

      Never underestimate illogical stupidity of soccer moms high on protect the cub instincts.
      • The only form of clown-banning I support is ignoring the boring things so they go out of business.

        I don't find them scary, but I don't find them interesting or entertaining either, just... lame ... and boring...

      • where I live there are actually attempts to ban clowns and clown costumes because some children are afraid of clowns.

        Would it likewise be justifiable to attempt to ban Romani [wikipedia.org] traditional dress because some children are afraid of Romani? Watch clowns fight back by calling whiteface makeup "traditional sunscreen" and oversized clothes "protective loose clothing for the climate change era", in effect painting coulrophobia (fear of clowns) as a xenophobia.

        • Would it likewise be justifiable to attempt to ban Romani

          Romani ite domum

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          The clown costume is just a parody of the homeless alcoholic (at least, the homeless of a few decades back, when it became ritualized). Or at least I hope it's a parody, and not a remnant of a time when people paid random hobos to entertain their kids.

          • Or at least I hope it's a parody, and not a remnant of a time when people paid random hobos to entertain their kids.

            Lately, through services such as Lyft, Uber, Fiverr, and Airbnb, the piecework service economy has become the new normal. Thus the era of the hobo, an itinerant who goes from place to place for work, is now.

      • by nagora ( 177841 )

        Yes, I am joking. In reality I grew up in a period when it was thought important to teach children about the Nazis. As a result, at school, we were shown film of mass graves, concentration camp liberations, executions by firing squad, and even a very, very short clip of Hitler's generals hanging from the piano wire after the failed assassination attempt.

        And, to be fair, I didn't grow up to be a Nazi.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @12:09PM (#56076949)
    More bubble wrap! Won't somebody please think of the children?!
    • Forget the children! I like bubble wrap too!

      Pop! Pop! Pop!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Search youtube for "peppa pig and the bacon".

      My kids love Peppa Pig. If they saw that video, they'd be scarred for life.

      Little kids are very impressionable. We joke about bubble wrap, but there is some seriously disturbing shit on the internet.

      • Search youtube for "peppa pig and the bacon".

        My kids love Peppa Pig. If they saw that video, they'd be scarred for life.

        Little kids are very impressionable. We joke about bubble wrap, but there is some seriously disturbing shit on the internet.

        Quoting this point so that it gets seen. Thanks AC :)

        I think the dismissive comments come from people who either don't have kids or don't pay enough attention to them to see when they get upset or disturbed by something they see. Youtube employees may be of the same Ilk. tl;dr -- We can't trust Google with our kids.

        • by sinij ( 911942 )

          I think the dismissive comments come from people who either don't have kids or don't pay enough attention to them to see when they get upset or disturbed by something they see.

          You forget to consider third alternative - responsible parents that want kids to develop coping mechanisms early in life so they don't end up emotionally stunted wrecks and permanent members of the self-identified victimhood class/race/orientation.

          • So you're taking your kids to morgues and showing them Faces of Death? Most kids can cope just fine, but young ones especially don't need any extra violence or gore in their lives. There's nothing wrong with limiting everyone's exposure to violence.

            • by sinij ( 911942 )

              So you're taking your kids to morgues and showing them Faces of Death? Most kids can cope just fine, but young ones especially don't need any extra violence or gore in their lives. There's nothing wrong with limiting everyone's exposure to violence.

              You are confusing your emotions with reason, and acting on them. First, you mischaracterize and misstate what I suggested in attempt to smear. Second, you rationalize your helicoptering by understating magnitude of your actions.

              The question here is about attempting to eliminate any hint of something that could be potentially seen as violence. The kind of busybody nonsense that keep trying to ban toy guns because they mistakenly believe pretend gun play leads to violence.

              • A simplified analogy: How would you feel about watching videos of your loved ones being raped, tortured, and mutilated and assuming that they were real? Is that something you'd like to see? Would you consider it to be a character-building experience?

                This is pretty much what goes through the mind of a toddler when they're exposed to these deliberately disturbing Youtube videos. They're made by sick fucks to do as much harm to children as they possibly can and you're trying to defend them and the corporation

                • by sinij ( 911942 )

                  you're trying to defend them and the corporation which does too little to prevent it.

                  No you are misrepresenting what I am trying to do. This argument isn't about keeping gore out of YouTube Kids, it is about sanitizing it to the extreme and absurd level. To the point that Looney Tunes won't pass the filters.

                  If you want to bubble wrap your kids to this extreme, it is your prerogative as a parent. However, don't expect the rest of us to do it for you and our own kids. You are not entitled to your parenting views being forced on everyone else.

                  • This discussion thread is about the videos on Youtube that are clearly inappropriate and 'disturbing' for toddlers to see. Which thread are you responding to?
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      In this case the concern is probably justified. Folding Ideas covered it in a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      Basically very young children don't see the world the way adults do, they don't process information in the same way. That's why these videos are so effective, despite being literal nonsense. They prey on the weaknesses of undeveloped minds, in a way that exploits children by feeding them a series of bizarre and kinda disturbing videos.

      • by sinij ( 911942 )
        You should know better than try to claim causation based on statistically weak correlational findings. This is exactly how we arrived to satanic panic [rationalwiki.org].
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I didn't, you read it wrong.

          • by sinij ( 911942 )
            I have seen Coyote dismembered, burned, mutilated, mangled, and blown up dozens of times. How come I, and my fellow generation, did not grow up murdering sociopaths or psychotic wrecks?
            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Because there isn't a simple monkey-see monkey-do link.

              What does this have to do with child exploitation and bizarre, disturbing imagery?

              • by sinij ( 911942 )

                What does this have to do with child exploitation and bizarre, disturbing imagery?

                What does child exploitation has to do with this discussion?

      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        The colorful videos of copyrighted characters, while jarring and disturbing to adults, isn't what people are complaining about. This is the same old song as the complaints about Coyote and Roadrunner cartons. However, there's also some legitimately disturbing stuff there, though it's very rare, as groups like 4chan try to game the system for lols.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I didn't actually make the argument you are trying to counter. In not going to disagree with you because I'm not the imaginary person you are having an argument with.

          Did you not read the post or watch the video, or is this some kind of hallucination? Who do you think you are responding to? Or is this just a general point unrelated to the prior content of the thread?

          • by lgw ( 121541 )

            The video you linked to (seen it, I subscribe to that guy) was about people gaming the YouTube recommendation engine to get views from pre-literate kids for ad money. It's pretty much algorithmic imagery at this point. It's not what people are worried about, except to the extent they show characters kids know being injured. That latter part is much like the long-running debate on cartoon violence.

            There's also a problem with stuff like "images of clowns with blood on them, scary advertisements and messages

  • They DID say they were sorry. It isn't like you are paying for it, or anything.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      If you want programming that is vetted and safe for kids, then you need to pay money to people who do the vetting.

      Make a subscription channel that is guaranteed safe for kids, and use the subscription money to keep that promise.

      If parents are too cheap to subscribe to that, then they can instead get more involved in their kid's entertainment decisions. Their choice.

      • Exactly. You need to allow Google to take money from you every month, AND allow them to track your kids. You can't expect them to police their own website!
      • Pay attention to what your kids are doing/watching? What are you, a communist!?!?!?!? /sarcasm:off

  • by Hognoxious ( 631665 ) on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @12:10PM (#56076963) Homepage Journal

    Another had characters from children's cartoon Paw Patrol on a burning plane.

    That's just awful!

    It should be the creators.

  • by forkfail ( 228161 ) on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @12:12PM (#56076977)

    YouTube, and all social media platforms, are going to have to eventually make a decision.

    Do they want to be a marketplace of ideas, with all the noise, discomfort, falsehoods, unpleasant opinions, disagreement, and flat out nastiness that goes along with all the good that comes from having an open forum of ideas, viewpoints, and worldviews?

    Or do they want to be a "trusted source and safe place", where content is highly vetted, viewpoints limited, and certain biases encouraged and others discouraged so that nothing unexpected or unpleasant is encountered?

    It seems like they're trying to have it both ways at present, but the two goals, as far as I can tell, are mutually exclusive.

  • Wait, they showed the firefighter dog saving a burning airplane? What's next, are they going to do the big reveal on where exactly the paw patrol's favourite bones comes from? Hint: They aren't picked from The Bone Tree in The Great Bone Orchard!
  • Since Hollywood reboots the same movie plots for every generation, why is it a shock the advertisers do it as well?

    "We traced the texts. They are coming from inside/right outside the house!!!"

  • I still think phone and tablet use should be metered out to young children. Kids being glued to a screen while missing out on social interaction is going to be a bad thing. I see kids out in public watching phones the entire time they are out. I guess it comes down to lazy parenting and them being satisfied their child is busy and not having to interact with them. Will these kids ever be shocked when they get a job somewhere and be expected to have an attention span.

    • We allowed my son restricted "screen time" most of the time. It seemed to work. He's got an independent life and a well-paying job now.

    • I still think phone and tablet use should be metered out to young children. Kids being glued to a screen while missing out on social interaction is going to be a bad thing. I see kids out in public watching phones the entire time they are out. I guess it comes down to lazy parenting and them being satisfied their child is busy and not having to interact with them. Will these kids ever be shocked when they get a job somewhere and be expected to have an attention span.

      Indeed.

      God forbid parents play with their children instead of demanding technology provide parenting alternatives.

      Also, it irks me that they're labeling things like knife sharpening videos as disturbing. Disturbing youtube videos that I would be alarmed if children were watching would be things like, "ISIS beheads man with chainsaw" or "Man gets raped by horse" or "woman gets raped on camera" or "person gets run over by drunk driver on video."

      I don't want kids seeing that stuff. Those are disturbing. But

  • Did they show hunters going after Barney the Dinosaur? Tim S.
  • ...even in the wimpy formerly-great Britain, knives are tools, and sharpening them is how you take care of them. Why, exactly, is that disturbing? It's something I learned to do at the age of 9 or 10.

    • indeed, father gave me pocket knife at age 10 and showed me how to sharpen knives. Also, he taught me how to solder, grind damaged screwdriver blade, file parts, etc.

      geez god forbid our children learn to safely use tools

  • The first thing that occurred to me was, "Has anyone read traditional fairy tales?".

  • The solution being, don't let your kids on the Internet unsupervised !!!
  • by dohzer ( 867770 )

    Had a look at one of these a few weeks ago and couldn't stop laughing.
    Soooo good.

"Here's something to think about: How come you never see a headline like `Psychic Wins Lottery.'" -- Comedian Jay Leno

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