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Transportation United Kingdom The Courts

Tesla Driver Banned From Driving For 18 Months For Sitting in Passenger Seat (theguardian.com) 138

Posted by EditorDavid from the staying-in-your-lane dept.
A 39-year-old motorist pointed his Tesla S60 down a highway at 40 mph -- while sitting in its passenger seat, leaning back with his hands behind his head. Another motorist spotted the empty driver's seat and filmed the car. Now (nearly a year later) the Tesla's owner "has been banned from driving for 18 months," the Guardian reports. The driver, from Nottingham, pleaded guilty to one count of dangerous driving after admitting he switched seats when he turned on the car's autopilot mode, leaving the car's brakes and steering wheel unmanned. The driver admitted that the stunt in May last year had been silly, but insisted that he was simply "the unlucky one who got caught" trying out the "amazing" feature on the car.

As well as the 18-month driving ban he was ordered to carry out 100 hours of unpaid work. He was also put on a 10-day rehabilitation programme and will have to pay £1,800 in costs.
A police officer called the behavior "reckless," adding that autopilot controls like the ones on Teslas "are in no way a substitute for a competent motorist in the driving seat who can react appropriately to the road ahead."
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Tesla Driver Banned From Driving For 18 Months For Sitting in Passenger Seat More

Tesla Driver Banned From Driving For 18 Months For Sitting in Passenger Seat

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  • This dude placed a lot of trust in autopilot when we have a few instances so far of autopilot fatally driving into fixed obstructions (highway exit divider, truck laying across the road, etc).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Mascot ( 120795 )

      Aye. Considering Tesla's autopilot is little more than a slightly amped up version of lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise control, I'd say he was making a pretty good application for the Darwin awards.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rei ( 128717 )

      "a few instances" in this many miles is not bad at all. The issue is that it was only a few instances with both a human and autopilot acting in conjunction.

      Pairing human and machine - if you can keep the human alert - is good for safety. But the machines are not yet to the point where they should be allowed to drive on their own.

      • Pairing human and machine - if you can keep the human alert - is good for safety.

        I do not think it is possible to keep the human alert if he does not have anything to do with driving for more than probably 30 minutes.

        I mean, normally, you have to constantly do minor adjustments to make the car follow the road (which may not be straight or level), keep distance from other cars etc. This keeps you alert. And it keeps you actually alert, compared to various artificial measures to make you alert (I could push a button every once in a while or slightly wiggle the steering wheel or whatever t

  • It's because idiots like him that we can't have nice things

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's because of idiots like him that we need to get to self-driving cars ASAP. Based on the judgement we've seen him exercise so far, I'm not convinced I'd want to share the road with him at the controls of a regular car.

      • It's because of idiots like him that we need to get to self-driving cars ASAP.

        Which would be... "The nice things". Well played!

  • This falls into the latter category. This particular idiot should be banned from driving for life.

    • Why? He wasn't even driving in the first place!

      http://instantrimshot.com/ [instantrimshot.com]

    • This falls into the latter category. This particular idiot should be banned from driving for life.

      That's OK, he can just ride in the passenger seat.

    • It does seem a rather short ban for a high-potential crime like this. And particularly "pour encourager les autres [wikipedia.org]". I'd have gone for automatic license revocation every couple of months for the rest of life - so that if he ever wants to drive, he can apply for a new license, sit the two tests, prove his skill to an inspector, pass his test, and lose the license within a couple of weeks.

      Or just, not drive. Heretical though that may seem.

  • Banned from driving? (Score:5, Funny)

    by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Saturday April 28, 2018 @02:56PM (#56520431)
    Does that mean he can do what he did once again? If he was sitting in the passenger seat, he wasn't driving.

    • If he had done this in England, would it still have counted as being in the passenger seat?

      • If he had done this in England, would it still have counted as being in the passenger seat?

        He did it on the M1, near Hempel Hempstead, England.

        • Hope he was travelling north, otherwise he'd have got to the Magic Roundabout. Most drivers can't negotiate that safely, so there's no way an autopilot could.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Cederic ( 9623 )

            If the Autopilot gets him to Swindon while on the M1 then it's fucking magical enough to get him through the roundabout too.

  • No occupancy sensor for driver. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:10PM (#56520497) Homepage

    In this modern age of hold your hand safety features, why exactly doesn't this thing have a seat weight sensor? Or are they just in the passenger seats and the designers simply assumed their would be a driver? Even lawn mowers have them.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by grumbel ( 592662 )

      They do have a 'hands on steering wheel' sensor.

    • Re:No occupancy sensor for driver. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Saturday April 28, 2018 @04:42PM (#56520871)

      In this modern age of hold your hand safety features, why exactly doesn't this thing have a seat weight sensor?

      Because putting a sensor in for every idiotic thing idiots can do isn't exactly financially viable, and an idiot sensor doesn't exist.
      Plus, all you'll do is breed a better idiot as a result.

      • In this modern age of hold your hand safety features, why exactly doesn't this thing have a seat weight sensor?

        Because putting a sensor in for every idiotic thing idiots can do isn't exactly financially viable, and an idiot sensor doesn't exist.
        Plus, all you'll do is breed a better idiot as a result.

        No. We already have these sensors in passenger seats of every vehicle so that they can warn the passenger to buckle their seat belt. It's a commodity.

        It is predictable that people would try to use their Tesla this way, and it could obviously cost lives, so they should be built to at least warn you against doing this until they are ready to be fully autonomous. He put the lives of everyone on the road at risk.

        If there isn't a sensor, there should be one. If there is one and it's only designed to trigger on t

        • No. We already have these sensors in passenger seats of every vehicle so that they can warn the passenger to buckle their seat belt.

          Well idiot sensor comment aside the requirement for a person in the driver seat detector is still stupid. In the world of measurement (my primary field) it is important to as far as reasonably possible measure the primary variable of interest. Guess what, no car is interested in if anyone is in any seat. It's not a primary variable for any kind of control. What people were interested in is if people are wearing their seatbelt, and in order to ensure that false alarms aren't given a detector is used to see i

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jahta ( 1141213 )

        In this modern age of hold your hand safety features, why exactly doesn't this thing have a seat weight sensor?

        Because putting a sensor in for every idiotic thing idiots can do isn't exactly financially viable, and an idiot sensor doesn't exist. Plus, all you'll do is breed a better idiot as a result.

        Well even applying the 80/20 rule, ensuring that there is somebody in the driver's seat when the car is moving should be a priority. In the UK, even my 8 year-old car alerts if there's a passenger sitting in the backseat who is not wearing a seat belt; it's not difficult to do.

        • Well even applying the 80/20 rule

          The 80/20 rule applies to normal people not wilful idiots. 20% of the population are not doing this. In fact across a population around the world in a fleet of many cars which offer this functionality (autopilot is little more than adaptive cruise control + lane holding which many cars have now) there have been 2 cases of this. The first one I saw was some kid in the Mercedes S Class, incidentally he had to override his steering wheel sensor which instantly disengages land holding unlike the Tesla's whine a

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by djinn6 ( 1868030 )
      Easy to get around that by putting something heavy in the drivers seat.

  • And This Guy Demonstartates The Problem (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kackle ( 910159 ) on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:29PM (#56520575)
    Most of the readers of this site understand how well, that is, not well, such a feature works in reality when it comes to dealing with the infinite complexities of driving. The average person though, after hearing "auto-pilot" and drinking the Kool-Aid of the media repeating how great autonomous vehicles are going to be (Slashdot is not an exception to this) will not think twice about putting human lives completely in such a feature's digital hands.
    • Part of the problem is that the owners may even be responsible enough to understand the limitations of Autopilot, but will they give a full training session when they hand the keys to their kid? Do they even know that they have Autopilot and need to explain it to their kid? If they are falling down drunk one night and someone else needs to drive them home, will the driver be fully familiar with the car?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Xenx ( 2211586 )
        In all honesty, if it isn't your car and you don't understand how something operates don't turn it on. It isn't Tesla's, or the owner's, responsibility to make sure any and every other remotely possible driver be aware of the functionality of the vehicle. That doesn't mean parents shouldn't teach their kids if they hand over the keys, but the driver is still responsible for what they choose to do while driving. If they choose to use a feature they're not familiar with, it's on them.
        • Anyone with a drivers license knows how 99% of cars work and think they know how 100% of cars work. The onus is on the company who makes a different car, and the owner of the different car, to make sure everyone driving that car understands that they don't know how *this* car works.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Xenx ( 2211586 )
            The onus is on the driver to understand the vehicle they're driving. A lot of newer cars have features that aren't in most older cars. Lane assist, brake assist, and like all require some level of understanding from the driver to know how they operate. The driver is still responsible for anything that happens because they didn't understand. As long as the company is making available the information needed to safely use the features, it's not the company's fault.

    • Most of the readers of this site understand how well, that is, not well, such a feature works in reality when it comes to dealing with the infinite complexities of driving.

      And most of the readers here will understand that the highway is literally the simplest case, that this person didn't cause an accident, that cars have basically autonomously driven themselves down highways for millions of miles, and funny enough that this isn't the first case of this happening. Hell the first case wasn't even a Tesla. I saw this a few years ago on youtube. Strap a bottle to the steering wheel of a Mercedes S class, enable steering assist, and then the guy jumped into the passenger seat to

      • horseshit. driving on the highway is one of the least complex and simple things UNTIL something happens then it can be one of the most dangerous highly complex environments to be on due to the speed of other vehicles and reduced time to react, Road Works, animals, items fallen off a truck, other irresponsible drivers, accidents etc.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Xenx ( 2211586 )
          I wouldn't argue against it still being a risk on the highway, but I wouldn't consider those potential events enough to go from simple to complex. They would be certainly be dangerous at highway speeds, but not overly complex.

        • driving on the highway is one of the least complex and simple things UNTIL something happens

          Exactly. It's also the situation where something unexpected happen is rarest, especially if you don't leave the right side lane. Out of the things you have listed:
          - reaction time - in control of the vehicle based on following distance and not an external variable
          - animals - highly dependent on the road time. Many highways are fully fenced. Many highways traverse built up areas and are surrounded by sound barriers. You're far less likely to come across animals on a highway than you are a residential road.
          - r

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

            - animals - highly dependent on the road time. Many highways are fully fenced. Many highways traverse built up areas and are surrounded by sound barriers. You're far less likely to come across animals on a highway than you are a residential road.

            Road kills happen all the time on the highway. I see one every month.

            - items fallen off trucks - Really? Why not throw getting struck by a meteor in and ban all autonomous driving until we successfully create an infinite improbability drive.

            I've dodged a dozen things that have fallen off trucks that could've killed me. I have not been hit by a meteor once.

            - other irresponsible drivers - Why worry about them? Let them cut around you. Very few irresponsible drivers actively cause an accident

            I've had a semi try to merge into my lane as I was passing it. There was no where for me to go, but honking caught the driver's attention.

            • So basically you either:

              a) are the worlds least lucky person,
              b) live in a shithole where people don't know how to drive or cover their loads, or
              c) drive a lot and have a very poor understanding of statistically liklihoods.

              I do like how you ignored my comment about autonomous driving systems being nothing more than a natural progression of the safety systems designed to avoid exactly the scenarios you mention. I think you'll find most readers here understand precisely why you are very selectively arguing and

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

                I think you'll find most readers here understand precisely why you are very selectively arguing and trying hopelessly to defend your position.

                Oh? Then tell me, what is my position?

                • The thought that readers of Slashdot fear the very systems which have demonstrated to improve safety under their own ideal scenarios.

                  Sorry mate, you were right about one thing, most readers here understand. Unfortunately they won't draw the conclusion you think.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Cederic ( 9623 )

            Congratulations on failing miserably to counter his point.
            - Reaction time to an emergency situation is lower on motorways because of the additional speed that will take you into the situation faster.
            - Animals are an example of this. And many highways are not fenced, the M1 being a fucking excellent example of this. I don't care how fucking rare it is if I write off my car every time one jumps out in front of me
            - Roadworks are not necessarily signed kilometres in advance. Even if they are, the lane markings

            • I didn't say it has no complexity, just reiterated the point you made: It's one of the least complex scenarios there is and is the original design case for the safety features that ultimately collectively became "autopilot". This shit has literally been around for over 5 years from every car manufacturer in some form or another, so to say it's not trustworthy despite it's demonstrated value and the lives it's saved is just foolish.

    • While I don't think autonomous vehicles are a good thing, and I wouldn't trust one enough to get in one (nor do I relish being anywhere near them as they share the road with me), I think it's also silly to accuse the "owner" (I'll explain the quotes below) of doing what such cars purport to deliver (which you describe as "drinking the Kool-Aid of the media") instead of challenging automakers and proponents to supply compelling reasons why anyone should bother with autonomous vehicles. If what we're told is

  • A police officer called the behavior "reckless," adding that autopilot controls like the ones on Teslas "are in no way a substitute for a competent motorist in the driving seat who can react appropriately to the road ahead."

    Maybe 'autopilot' should be called 'driver assistance' to avoid further confusion?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      No. Plenty of people don't act like this. I don't think it has anything to do with the wording of the device. I'm sure he tired to use that as a defense and it didn't work. Don't try to use that defense now. it's not confusion. It's jackassness. Please stop making up shit.

  • How long before the autopilot will need to detect a driver, in the driving seat, before engaging?

    • Why not just build an idiot detector? By the way, measure the primary variable of interest. No one gives a crap where the driver is sitting, but rather is the driver in control. These cars already have steering wheel sensors.

      But they are actually quite easy to fool: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/201... [gizmodo.com.au]

      Funny thing: My car beeps madly if the driver isn't wearing a seatbelt. Last time I picked up my car from the parking service at the airport I got in to discover the passenger seatbelt stretched across and clippe

  • Shouldn't they also prosecute the other 'motorist' who snitched on him, for filming with his phone while driving?

  • A police officer called the behavior "reckless," adding that autopilot controls like the ones on Teslas "are in no way a substitute for a competent motorist in the driving seat who can react appropriately to the road ahead."

    Is he suggesting this guy was a competent motorist?, his actions alone prove he shouldn't be allowed to drive ever as he obviously has no understanding of what is required to be competent, maybe in this case the Tesla Autopilot "was" the safer option and at least it revealed what a fucking moron he is and that he shouldn't have a license.

  • when your drunk... Its probably safer but still stupid to do.

  • ...a competent motorist in the driving seat who can react appropriately to the road ahead.

    Really? That's a requirement? Have you been out on the roads recently? Do you have an estimate for the percentage of cars on the road today that have this "feature"? I don't think it's as common as you might suspect, and hasn't been for... well, since the invention of the automobile.

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