Tech Conferences Moving North as Trump Policies Turn Off Attendees (financialpost.com) 340
The Collision Conference, one of North America's most influential technology gatherings, tweeted on Tuesday: "We've got some news. It's about Toronto. But we'll let Justin Trudeau tell you about it." What followed was a video in which the prime minister announced that Collision, which typically boasts 25,000 attendees, will be coming to Canada in 2019. From a report: "I'm happy you chose Toronto to host North America's fastest growing tech conference for the next three years, but I have to say, I'm not completely surprised," Trudeau said. "Toronto is a key global tech hub and an example of the diversity that is our strength." And Collision is not alone in coming north. At least two other major technology conferences have recently made the decision to relocate to Canada, lured in part by Toronto's burgeoning tech sector, but also driven by travel restrictions imposed by U.S. President Donald Trump, policies that have left organizers scrambling to accommodate those who can't visit the United States.
In mid-April, Creative Commons, an international non-profit dedicated to the legal sharing of digital content, held their global summit in Toronto for the second year in a row. "The political climate in the U.S., specifically the open hostility from the current administration towards many international communities, and the anxiety from those we work with about how they might be treated was definitely a deciding factor," said Ryan Merkley, CEO of Creative Commons. "What's most unfortunate is that this approach is so inconsistent with the views of the many collaborative communities we work with every day in the U.S."
At Access Now, a non-profit that organizes the RightsCon digital rights conference, Trump's travel ban on seven predominantly Muslim countries hit close to home. "One of our interns at the time was an Iranian citizen with a U.S. green card, and she wasn't able to leave the country to go to Brussels to help us organize the (2017) event," RightsCon director Nick Dagostino said. For years, RightsCon has alternated between San Francisco and a series of global venues, and after last year's event in Brussels, heading back to California would have been the natural choice. But then, people started telling Access Now that if the event happened in the U.S., they wouldn't show up.
In mid-April, Creative Commons, an international non-profit dedicated to the legal sharing of digital content, held their global summit in Toronto for the second year in a row. "The political climate in the U.S., specifically the open hostility from the current administration towards many international communities, and the anxiety from those we work with about how they might be treated was definitely a deciding factor," said Ryan Merkley, CEO of Creative Commons. "What's most unfortunate is that this approach is so inconsistent with the views of the many collaborative communities we work with every day in the U.S."
At Access Now, a non-profit that organizes the RightsCon digital rights conference, Trump's travel ban on seven predominantly Muslim countries hit close to home. "One of our interns at the time was an Iranian citizen with a U.S. green card, and she wasn't able to leave the country to go to Brussels to help us organize the (2017) event," RightsCon director Nick Dagostino said. For years, RightsCon has alternated between San Francisco and a series of global venues, and after last year's event in Brussels, heading back to California would have been the natural choice. But then, people started telling Access Now that if the event happened in the U.S., they wouldn't show up.
Polar bear replant in grab bags? (Score:5, Funny)
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AFAIK most cities have 50kph speed limits.
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The average side street in most American cities is 25-35mph.
20 mph in Seattle. Because stoned hobos wandering in streets.
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That's a different kind of poutine.
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Re:Polar bear replant in grab bags? (Score:4, Funny)
You're talking about Toronto, where most people speak English.
English, sure. But their heads separate from their necks when they talk, which freaks me out.
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It's weird that those artificial criticisms of Canada have made me like the place more.
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I stopped attending conferences in the US (Score:5, Interesting)
I lived in the US (studied, then worked); I have good friends there; I have a Swiss passport, so no problem for me at all entering the US. But I have chosen not to go there anymore, for the past two years (that includes at least one technical conference per year).
Two reasons for me: #1) I don't feel safe anymore in a country that has such an unpredictable and authoritarian police force, and #2) I don't think it is ethical of me to condone the current US policies towards foreigners (of which I am one), even though I would personally (probably) would have not problems while visiting.
I would love to go back, but will not do it while these conditions last.
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You're stupid if you think you're in danger from the US police.
As for policies towards foreigners, in what way are the US less accepting of foreigners than (e.g.) Switzerland? You know, the country that explicitly voted to prevent mass immigration?
But we've already confirmed you're stupid.
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Way to totally miss his point. Straight over your head. I guess you were safely cocooned in a few tons of metal and plastic at the time - or hadn't you fucking noticed that mass transit systems tend to weigh a lot?
Has nothing to do with Trump or Trudeau (Score:3)
The single most important reason the conference is going to Toronto is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Bad examples (Score:5, Informative)
These are not tech conferences. Two of those are activism conferences, and Collision is near-tech.
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There's no tech anymore anyway, it's all consumerism and marketing these days.
The real reason, as usual, is economic (Score:4, Insightful)
Being that the loonie is about $0.78 to the greenback.
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Being that the loonie is about $0.78 to the greenback.
Oh, sure, you just had to go and ruin a good Two Minute Hate [wikipedia.org].
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And virtue-signaling is even cheaper.
If you do something out of self-interest, ALWAYS cloak it in the mantle of righteousness for the possible saps who are gullible enough to buy it.
If you have to tell people you're "influential"... (Score:2)
(gaffaws)
If you have to tell people you're "influential", you aren't influential. Wake me up when RSA heads to Vancouver.
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It's like having to tell people when you're a genius.
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Seriously. Before they told us they were influential, they would have been better off to tell us who the fuck they are. I've never even heard of this conference.
Iranian intern? (Score:2)
Well, she will not be able to go to Toronto for the same reason.
"Influential" my behind...
Tech? Conferences (Score:2)
Creative Commons summit and RightsCon sound like idealogy conferences. Collision Conference sounds like a business conference (for people who want to someday be involved in a genuine business).
Where are they holding conferences for people who know how to do stuff?
NO COLLUSION (Score:2)
Maybe they thought he was talking about them.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Got Virtue Signalling? (Score:4, Informative)
Give it a break kiddies. Trump won. Fair and square. Get the fuck over it.
FWIW I've visited the U.S.A. twice during the Trump administration. In both cases U.S. officials confirmed my identity and citizenship through my passport, confirmed that I was legit in their computer, asked me a couple of questions about my planned activities in the U.S., "Have a good trip!", off I went.
The Customs dude at Blaine, Washington asked "Idaho? I thought everybody was going to Oregon for that?" when I went to see the eclipse last August. Is this the sort of customs/border/immigration nightmare people are talking about?
...laura
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It's not even Trump. Companies have been trying to convince people to move conventions out of the US since the Obama administration.
The bottom line is that the TSA and ICE makes attempting to attend anything in the US far too annoying to deal with. Not to mention that the weather in the majority of the US is, at best, inconvenient. More conventions should move to Canada.
But don't blame Trump. This is something that's been in the works for a long time, and it's not Trump's fault. It's the US's fault in gener
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Except Trumps rhetoric has accelerated it. The companies may had tried to move it out of the US. But for the most part people around the world wanted to Visit the Mighty United States, not the Luigi Second Player country Canada. So these companies stayed in the US. Trump with his anti-forger rhetoric has made the United States seem unwelcoming to these foreign visitors. Even if there isn't any additional policy, the rhetoric and tweeting from the guy in charge, make the United States unwelcoming.
Now Tr
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Sorry dude, its not about economic anxiety. That's just one of those fairytales we tell ourselves to avoid confronting ugly truths about our fellow citizens. The majority of people earning under $50K/yr voted for Clinton. [theguardian.com]
The anxiety of the stereotypical "Trump voter" is not coming from those in poverty / near-poverty for the most part. Those people get by and re-enter the workforce in large part because of safety nets championed by Democrats. Trump voters on the other hand are more likely to to have decent working class and middle class jobs they are afraid of losing. And these jobs tend to provide household incomes above $50k/yr. When you combine Trump voters with the rest of Republican voters you find that less than a thi
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Not enough for you? This guy summarized even more studies: Donald Trump won the GOP primary and the presidency because campaigning on whiteness-first messaging still has potency in the 21st century. [threadreaderapp.com]
How does anything in your long post detract from the evidence that economic anxiety of white Americans as they lose their cultural dominance was a major factor in Trump's election victory? You seem to only bolster this theory. One of the articles you linked to makes an odd argument that economic anxiety and cultural anxiety are inherently different. One primary source of white American economic anxiety is the loss of their cultural dominance which fuels white privilege.
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The Electoral College BTFO'd that sentiment. Just as they did about 5 more times in American history when the popular vote didn't favour the same candidate for President.
This is a rare decision for the Electoral College, but it's still normal for the United States government so far as I can tell. That's why all this kicking and screaming about Trump is annoying. Like no President has been caught doing potentially criminally bad things before, like no President was a divisive character before, that no Pre
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It is not about hating him it is contempt for the fact that some beat down Americans stumbled to their feet,
You perfectly exemplify the permanent grievance of the worst kind of trump voter. He campaigned on "you are all losers, but I will win for you, there will be so much winning, you'll get tired of all the winning." And just like with any other conman, he wins and his marks end up losing the most. Just like the suckers who signed up for trump university.
...most of the gnashing of teeth is performed bu the useful idiots.
Said the guy who has ground the enamel completely off his molars.
I didn't vote for Trump. How did the people who voted for Trump lose?
They got a huge tax break instead of an all-but-guaranteed tax hike.
Unemployment is way down.
The stock market is way up. I don't think this is a good measure of anything, and I'm sure it will tank again (hopefully soon), but people love to point to the pretend money in the stock market as a sign of economic health.
Denuclearization, peace, and potential reunification in Korea,
Tons of sex cults and human trafficking rings have been broken
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The majority of people earning under $50K/yr voted for Clinton.
The same clown shoes polling that guaranteed HRC would win in a landslide.
How'd that turn out?
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No one has mentioned that they've previously held Collision in New Orleans for the past few years. Not exactly a global tech hub with many direct flights.
Re:Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Since Bush. This all started with 9/11.
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Since Bush. This all started with 9/11.
People in general are willing to put up with a lot to gain something. It doesn't really matter where it started, what matters is where it reaches the tipping point.
Re: Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:2)
Not to mention that the weather in the majority of the US is, at best, inconvenient.
You were doing okay
until you slipped and blurted-out the above made-up shit.
Geez; is it so fucking hard for you dumbasses to "play a tight hand?" Ever heard the expression "don't let your underwear show??"
Pathetic.
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"But don't blame Trump. This is something that's been in the works for a long time, and it's not Trump's fault. It's the US's fault in general."
This would be true if I didn't have coworkers from Iran who were forbidden to travel by Trump's policies.
So, NO, you are not correct. There's been mumbling about moving conferences for years, but now it's mainstream action based on ever-changing racist policies personally signed by DONALD J TRUMP which affect the same members of a team travelling to a conference d
Re:Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
It looks like it's hard to visit Iran from several countries (US, UK, Isreal) unless in a group or approved business as well.
And "Admission is refused to women not wearing Islamic head cover, scarf, long sleeves and stockings."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It's funny how so many countries that have so many restrictions in their own countries still feel able to judge the US for having a fraction of the restrictions.
Re:Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh well, then. I guess the easiest solution is to hold conferences in Canada. Thanks for the insight.
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As opposed to Iran? Yeah. As opposed to US "shrug"
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That sign was from a culture long ago. How much of that time period do you want to bring back?
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I like how a poem on a statue gifted by "the French people" in the late 19th century has somehow come to define the core of the American ethos in the current year. I'll bet you also think the US entered WW2 to save the Jews and fight totalitarianism by ... teaming up with, and providing extensive material aid to, totalitarianism! Such amazing insight, your Marxist history professors would be proud.
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The TSA has been hassling people since fairly early in the Bush administration. I was hoping Obama would rein it in, but he made it worse. This is a shining example of bipartisan stupidity.
Or maybe the agent problem? We'd all be better off with less intrusive screenings, but the official who makes that policy is politically dead with the first disaster, even if the tighter screenings wouldn't have caught it.
Re:Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Canada has the best 21-days summer of every country in the world.
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Summer, what summer?
Canada has 4 seasons: winter, before-winter, after-winter, and between-winters.
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TAKE OFF! To the great green north!
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The article is full of lies. Here is an example:
Lawful Permanent Residents (green card holders) have never been banned from entering the U.S., regardless of their country of birth..
Bzzzt! I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. Perhaps it's your post that's the lie? LPRs were banned as part of Trump's first travel ban. The second one (February 1, 2018) added the exemption for LPRs. See this [politico.com], or basically any article that covered the travel ban. "White House Counsel Don McGahn issued 'authoritative guidance' on Wednesday clarifying that key parts of Trump's controversial executive order, which is aimed at citizens of seven majority-Muslim countries, will no longer cover green card holders ...
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The second one (February 1, 2018)
Typo: 2017*
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Well, people are voting with their feet -- or at least their dollars.
Re: Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:2)
*canadian* dollars, eh?
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Yeah, and more of them.
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Re:Oh NOES!!! Trump is EVUL!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps that is true. However, there is also the issue that visas in general are harder to get even if you're not on the travel ban. I am an American, living in France and I know that some of my colleagues do not want to travel to the US (for business or pleasure) due to the hassle. This has to be reducing the number of people who want to visit for any reason. This type of feedback probably gets back to the people who run conferences and may have an effect on where they choose to hold them.
I know from personal my own travels that entering the US (even as an American) is a worse experience than entering France. The American border control just seems hostile - the way they question people, etc. I always feel unwelcome when returning despite their big signs saying "Welcome to the US". When entering France they just glance at the passport, stamp it and let you through (I'm sure they already pre-screened me somehow). Note that the hostility also exists when entering the UK- perhaps it is a general Anglo-Saxon problem.
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What about landed immigrants in Canada who have passports from these countries?
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I mean seriously. how many people coming to these conferences are in the handful of countries on the travel ban? I cant imagine its that many.
The problem is that even in conferences where the attendees from those banned may be a mere handful of people, it creates a dillema for the organizers in that holding it in the United States would be limiting the participation and viewpoints from people from those country. For scientific conferences in particular, which try to stay above politics and promote dialogue in their field, limiting dialogue by denying entry even to a single person would be a betrayal of their principles to promote scientific under
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It's kinda funny that Trudeau cites "diversity" as their strength. Canada has a higher percentage of white folks per capita than the US, or at least has historically.
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/... [typepad.com]
Their largest non-white demographic, unlike the US, is Asian. To some groups like BLM, that doesn't really even count.
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Especially security conferences attract people who might be viewed as suspicious by some US 3 letter organizations, so they try to avoid that country.
On a more personal note: I have not been to the US since 9/11 and if the "security" paranoia stays the way it currently is, I will probably not visit the US again. It's a shame really, because I have family over there and overall I liked the country. But I am not going to let me be treated like a criminal.
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That is not how it looks from the outside, dude.
I am from an allied country i Europe, and would definitely get a visa, but all else being equal I would actively choose conferences not in the US. And I know my hesitance is widespread, and lately increasing.
It comes down to a lot of compounding factors, many of them predating Trump, but his words and actions sure haven't helped.
The major peeve is the sheer hassle of the TSA and of getting a visa. Both have been ludicrous since 9/11, but the visa process has
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Look:
* We used to like visiting America
* The reasons for wanting to go are still there
* You changed some things that made the process of actually getting there a lot less appealing
* This has consequences for businesses that want to attract foreign visitors
* Someone had the gall to point this out to you
Deal with it.
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Yeah. I feel bad for Canada too
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That's not just counting your chickens before they're hatched; it's more like counting your chickens before they've evolved.
This is like peace in the Middle East. Every generation or so there's an outbreak of hope that inevitably founders on the fact that parties that need to participate depend on conflict for their political legitimacy. That's North Korea in a nutshell.
Now I wish Trump well in this; he may not be the person I'd want across the negotiating table from Xi Jinping, but Kim Jong Un... that'
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Don't underestimate how tough and smart someone like Xi or Putin has to be to get where he was, just because his values are alien. These men are not the scion of the hereditary ruling dynasty, they're the end result of merciless political natural selection. You can beat them, but not through intimidation or bullshitting them into submission.
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You don know the Art of the Deal was ghostwritten.
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You don know the Art of the Deal was ghostwritten.
That just goes to show how clever Trump is!
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You don know the Art of the Deal was ghostwritten.
That just goes to show how clever Trump is!
Indeed. I'd put him on a level with Gwyneth Paltrow [nytimes.com].
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You can't discuss anything political these days without feeding a few trolls.
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Great ideas and people come from all over the world. You'd know that it you weren't a crypto-racist with associated blinders.
and yet... (Score:5, Informative)
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The "muslim ban" countries are those that do not effectively cooperate with background checks necessary to grant a visa. That's all.
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11% of foreign-born people who committed or were convicted of attempting to commit a terrorist attack on U.S. soil from 1975 through 2015 came from one of the banned countrie
Sounds like the vetting process needs to be examined and revamped.
and 0% of deaths from terrorist activities over that 40 year period came from these countries
Times change. Like civil war in Syria. The justification was multiple reasons not just "government cooperation". You are addressing a strawman.
are not effectively cooperating with US background checks, but yet still have results like this, it is our background checks which are too onerous.
With numbers like those there is definitely something wrong. Part of the reason for the ban was to assess the problems. I don't think the process is too onerous if a country is not cooperating. In fact, any government not cooperating should be scrutinized more.
No one with a positive IQ should fall for the Trump administration's proposed reasons for this ban. He may be able to get the ban through the Supreme Court based on an inconsistently strict partisan reading of the law, but even those justices won't be fooled by the actual reason for the ban
Did you hear the arguments laid before the
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If you get hit by a car while crossing the street at a busy intersection, it was probably an accident. But if the driver of that car had made numerous public statements promising to hit you with a car, it was probably NOT an accident.
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Getting hit by a car is the same as a lawful action? If the driver saying the public statements apologized and then hit you, would that be okay?
The plaintiffs argued that if Trump apologized his ban would have been legal. I am not sure how that fits with your car analogy.
If that is your argument then I think you have a bad case.
Re:and yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
The people that parade this talking point really don't understand the ban. Including the people that mod you up.
Do the governments of those countries help the US properly vet any would-be traveler to the US? If not they are banned. If they do help and that help is up to at least some standard of what the US does then they are not banned.
The US has laws against existing criminals this ban was about the governments of nations that do not do the bare minimum in helping the US ensure that criminals do not come here.
IOW, the ban is for countries that are A) hotbeds of terrorist activity and B) governments not doing the bare minimum to help the US prevent those terrorists from traveling to the US.
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and yet, the ban doesn't cover any of the 4 countries where the 9-11 attackers came from (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Lebanon and Egypt).
It's almost like the landscape may have changed in 17 years...
It doesn't include the country that attacked pearl harbor either.
Re:and yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate to defend Trump on anything, but why are we blaming or crediting him at all, when he didn't make the list? The list was the list of "countries or areas of concern" created by the legislature in 2015 and signed by president Obama years before Trump took office. It simply has nothing to do with him.
The "ban" wasn't bad because the country list made no sense, and it wasn't bad because it targeted Muslims. The ban was bad because it provided no due-process of law, and prevented people from re-entering the country when they already had travel visas and booked flights to return home to the US. Some people found out about the ban only when they landed and were turned away. It was stupidly written, and even his own cabinet admitted it.
P.S. I had to confirm that before daring to post it, so here are my sources:
http://www.politifact.com/wisc... [politifact.com]
and
https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch... [snopes.com]
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Re:always amused at sound bite "muslim majority" (Score:4, Informative)
Spoken like someone who has never lived in Canada...so let me enlighten you. When you enter Canada:
(1) You are not greeted with somber armed guards giving you stern looks and barking monosyllable words.
(2) You are not fingerprinted, photographed, or otherwise put through a "mild" police arrest process
(3) People actually don't care what color your skin is or which country you came from. All they care about is who you are and what you do. For proof, check out the Canadian Defense Minister and try to imagine how much uproar you'd get in US if the Secretary of Defense looked like him.
(4) Above all, observe how much more civilized the society is over there.
So why is it a surprise that modern conferences would feel more at home there than in the US?
PS For visceral contrast between the two countries, watch the video of the police take down of the suspect who had just rammed down two dozen people on the sidewalk: [Youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOW05IVejNE
Did you see any paramilitary police force in the video? Did you hear Canada raising the terror alert or people calling for banning whatever ethnicity that moron was from? Did you even hear his name or ethnicity while the crap was going down during the day?
Now imagine the same incident happening in the US. Heck imagine holding a cell phone in your grandparents backyard while your back is to the cops...oh wait, you don't have to imagine that last one; it actually happened.
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The fact is that people almost all muslim countries on earth can travel to the USA. The ban is on a handful of countries that are rife with radical terrorists. If we were banning muslim countries we'd have banned the other 43 countries. idiots
The real idiocy here is that the much lauded Trump Muslim-ban is not on Lebanon, Egypt, the UAE and Saudi Arabia whose citizens actually conducted and financed the 911 attacks. Iran? It is actually fun to watch Trump supporters try and explain that one away, it's like watching a severely constipated person holding their breath and pushing really hard while seriously contemplating digging it out with a stick.
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"The ban is on countries that are currently exporting terrorism."
So Saudi Arabia, where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from is no longer exporting terrorism?
http://www.washingtoninstitute... [washingtoninstitute.org]
Here's an article from a couple years ago, but over a decade after 9/11 recommending that Washington work with Saudi to (and i quote) "diminish support for terrorism". Al queda is viewed as favorable / somewhat favorable by as much as 20% of the population there.
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Does the Saudi Government work with the US to vet would-be travelers?
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"Muslim" isn't a race any more than "Catholic" or "American", you numpty fucking cunt.
There is no such thing as race within the homo-sapien species [newsweek.com]. Racism has never been exclusively biological and has often if not primarily had cultural origins. The more we assume that race is limited to skin color, the less we understand about contemporary racism faced by Muslims at home and abroad. [huffingtonpost.com]
Perhaps you also believe antisemitism is not racism either, or are you simply inconsistent in your beliefs on racism and race in general?
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Re:Oh well (Score:5, Insightful)
Kind of funny punishing one of the states most vocal against President Trump.
It isn't like there is a different set of federal customs and border control agencies for california.
And calling it punishment is supremely narcissistic. Its not punishing anyone to spend your money where you feel most appreciated.
Re:Oh well (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not really punishment, it's looking out for the safety of the attendees.
Crossing the US border is dangerous. You have few rights and your possessions can be searched or confiscated. You can detained for long periods of time without warning. Plus, the travel ban affects a lot of people who might want to attend, and it's hard to predict what the situation might be by the time the conference actually happens.
If they don't move they will lose out to conferences in other places.
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Re:Oh well (Score:5, Interesting)
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Crossing the US border is dangerous
I wish this news would spread. We might end up not needing a wall.
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the attack on the education system means that the nation as a whole is being dumbified on an unprecedented scale
I concur, the takeover by radicals intent on shouting down anybody that challenges their views with things like evidence is an attack that's seriously damaging the education system.
I'm not sure what the relevance of Trump is to this though?
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" Never heard of it, doesn't matter to my life. Like just about all conferences."
Doesn't the still not need constant supervision, Bubba?
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"I'm a techie and I voted for Trump. Fuck you whiny cucks."
Dewey Crowe, is that you?