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Education United States

Code.org Is Crowdsourcing Database of US K-12 Schools That Teach, Or Don't Teach CS 87

Posted by msmash from the interesting-moves dept.
Longtime reader theodp writes: Nonprofit Code.org, which is bankrolled by the likes of Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Google, and Infosys, has teamed up with the Computer Science Teachers Association (CSTA) and is "calling on all educators and parents" to "help us build a database of all schools that teach (or don't teach) computer science" (via direct responses and email advocacy tools). Called the K-12 Computer Science Access Report, Code.org says "the database will be a resource that everyone in the CS community can use." For what purposes, however, is not entirely clear, although the Code.org Medium post indicates the database will be used by the nonprofit and the CS community to "make our shared vision [for every school to teach computer science] a reality." The post cites a 2016 study conducted by Google and Gallup -- which took principals to task for being clueless about what constituted "computer science" and misgauging parental and student demand for CS -- and goes on to add that the new database will allow the organization to "be able to report more precisely which schools do or don't offer this opportunity to their students." As far as a timeframe for the naughty-or-nice K-12 CS school database goes, Code.org reports, "our goal is to gather data for 100% of US schools by the end of 2018." In earlier posts, Code.org has thanked its partners for their help in "changing [K-12 CS] education policies in forty states" (make that 43 states!) and claimed credit for "pressing lawmakers" into unlocking Federal funding for K-12 CS with the passage of the Every Student Succeeds Act.
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Code.org Is Crowdsourcing Database of US K-12 Schools That Teach, Or Don't Teach CS More

Code.org Is Crowdsourcing Database of US K-12 Schools That Teach, Or Don't Teach CS

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  • I'm not sure how well this will work. If there's already a belief that administrators and parents don't have a good understanding of what constitutes computer science, then what indication is there that they'll be able to reliably report it. I suppose it's better than no data, but I'm uncertain how accurate it will actually be, or how well it will be maintained. There may even be misreporting of information if this database is somehow tied to funding opportunities.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jbengt ( 874751 )
      The questions are there on the website linked in TFS. They ask if students are taught coding / programming, and specifically state that does not include HTML, CSS, or use of applications. Not that it would prevent clueless people from getting it wrong, anyway.
  • Like the idea of shaming schools/districts into offering CS classes. And I say that as someone who opposes making CS a required elective and/or graduation requirement. While not everybody should take CS in high school, it seems criminal that some kids are attending schools that don't even offer it.

    • Like the idea of shaming schools/districts into offering CS classes. And I say that as someone who opposes making CS a required elective and/or graduation requirement. While not everybody should take CS in high school, it seems criminal that some kids are attending schools that don't even offer it.

      I would guess some schools have more pressing problems they are trying too address than teaching CS. It would be great if every school had the resources, knowledgeable teachers and a good curriculum so they can offer a viable CS option; I would be curious to overlay the set of schools not offering CS and socio-economic status and see what sort of correlations exist.

      • Oh, for sure, there are schools dealing with more pressing issues. I'm just not convinced that offering C.S. as an option would steal time/resources from efforts to address those other issues. It's basically an issue of: "we can only offer a limited number of courses; what should be included and what shouldn't?" Replacing "something else" with C.S. needn't cost any more money or require hiring a dedicated C.S. teacher.

        • Oh, for sure, there are schools dealing with more pressing issues. I'm just not convinced that offering C.S. as an option would steal time/resources from efforts to address those other issues. It's basically an issue of: "we can only offer a limited number of courses; what should be included and what shouldn't?" Replacing "something else" with C.S. needn't cost any more money or require hiring a dedicated C.S. teacher.

          Fair enough. What would you replace? In addition, how are you sure it wouldn't require hiring a CS teacher? A good math teacher may not be able to teach CS anymore than someone who can teach CS would be able to teach math; plus you'd need to outfit and maintain a CS lab of some sort.

          • What would you replace?

            There's no single course or set of courses I'd target, but I'm guessing at any given school I could find something that is (in my opinion) less essential than C.S. I just looked up the course list of a high school in the school district where I live. Some of the courses I think are less useful than C.S.: Astronomy, Environmental Systems, Animation, Sports Medicine, Film Analysis, "Street Law and Criminal Law" (not even sure what "street law" is), Ethnic Studies, Child Development,

          • Fair enough. What would you replace?

            CS should be an elective, so it should be up to each student to chose it in place of another elective.

            Some programming should be integrated into math and science classes. For instance, calculus class should include a section on numerical integration using Simpson's method, and numerical solution of polynomials using Newton-Raphson, etc.

            you'd need to outfit and maintain a CS lab of some sort.

            There are plenty of web based interpreters that can run on any device with a browser. No "lab" is needed.

      • I would guess some schools have more pressing problems they are trying too address than teaching CS.

        Yeah, like "two", "to", and "too".

        • I would guess some schools have more pressing problems they are trying too address than teaching CS.

          Yeah, like "two", "to", and "too".

          Grammar is for those two narrow minded too consider it is possible 10 have more than to alternatives.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by plopez ( 54068 )

      What is the definition of CS?

      • Good question. At the high school level, I'd want to see some basic computer literacy, then intro-level coding and exposure to some basic algorithms / data structures. If it's an AP course, then I'd want it to prepare students to pass the CS "A" exam.

    • They don't really teach true CS in high schools. It's mostly just programming (or "coding"), maybe with a smattering about some high level components. There's no purpose to this except to get cheap labor, churning out poorly trained people from schools who can be snatched up for low paying jobs.

      There has been a push from industry for over 30 years to teach only job related computer skills, meaning only teach that year's popular languages so that the graduates are shovel ready, and to downplay theory, brea

      • I was taught roughly the same material in my high school C.S. classes that college students at my AAU-member alma mater were taught in the intro C.S. class there. I didn't actually take that class as an undergraduate (though I was a T.A. for it 4 years later) because I got credit by way of the C.S. AP exam. I was prepared to take that exam because of...my high school C.S. classes.

        Having C.S. in high school gives kids a chance to learn what programming is like in a structured, guided environment. Maybe
      • I would argue that law is more important than CS by an order of magnitude. There is no escaping the law. But there's no industry group trying to get cheaper lawyers by teaching it to kids at a young age.

  • Look very carefully at this gift horse. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I think it's better to not teach coding in K-12 at all rather than have it taught by the likes of Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, and Google. These companies have shown that they are willing to destroy privacy, wage psychological warfare, and condition/control large groups of people if they think it will make them a dollar.

    • Sorry, on the "atrocities against humanity" scale, self-taught Visual Basic beats all that hands down.

    • I don't think it should be taught at all, for any reason, until the schools have completely mastered the teaching of math, English, history, etc. They continue to degenerate in those areas, they don't need to waste time on what amounts to vocational training. Anyone who has fundamentals and logical thought processes can learn to write computer programs in a few minutes or hours, and without the fundamentals, there is no reason to write computer programs.

  • explore all interests (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday May 28, 2018 @11:04AM (#56688610)
    Has anyone started a crowd sourced list for teaching plumbing or welding yet?

    • Has anyone started a crowd sourced list for teaching plumbing or welding yet?

      There is no need, because these are already taught.

      I learned "stick" arc welding in high school as part of a metal working class. It was the second most useful class that I took in HS. The first was touch typing.

  • School Leaders Feel Pressured to Expand CS by Tech (Score:5, Interesting)

    by theodp ( 442580 ) on Monday May 28, 2018 @11:04AM (#56688616)

    In related news, "Forty-seven percent of the school leaders surveyed by Education Week said they feel mild or strong pressure to expand computer science from vendors and the technology industry [wordpress.com]. That's compared with 28 percent who said they feel such pressure from parents and 23 percent from teachers."

    • Grow up theodp. You aren't going to lose your job if you are competent. I know you are scared of competition, but grow the F up.
  • We don't need more computer scientists and software engineers. We need more people capable of doing trades like electricity, plumbing, and auto and truck repair. Let's shame the schools into bringing back shop classes.
    • Somewhat disagree. More and more effective software devs probably has a much larger positive effect on GDP growth than, say, more tradesmen.

  • When I RFTA, I have to wonder if the only result of this is going to primarily highlight schools in areas that cannot afford sufficient computers for training students or teachers with the skills in order to teach programming.

    Even if the money is allocated, who's going to benefit the most? Microsoft and Google will probably be the biggest beneficiaries of monies allocated out to "rectify" the problem as well as give CS teachers priorities over other teacher classifications.

    • schools in areas that cannot afford sufficient computers for training students

      A Raspberry Pi Zero costs $5.

      • For a poor school, a Raspberry Pi Zero is a bookmark that cost $5.

        For it to be usable, you have to add:
        - Power Supply
        - SD Card for File System
        - Keyboard
        - Display
        - Network infrastructure for school to support a classroom of Raspberry Pis
        - Network and programmingTechnical support
        - Trained teacher that has curriculum

        When you have a poor school, the suggestion of a $5 processor card isn't all that helpful when they see the investments that must be made to be able to actually get it to first power up and then se

        • Power Supply - $2 each in bulk. Or the students can use their cell phone chargers.
          SD Card for File System - $2 each in bulk for 2GB SD cards.
          Keyboard - $2 each at Goodwill
          Display - $5 at Goodwill, or free from Craigslist if you carry them away
          Network infrastructure - How many schools don't have Wifi?
          curriculum - Free from Khan Academy

          When you have a poor school ...

          This is mostly a myth. School spending in America is far more progressive than you think [economist.com]. There are state and federal programs to level funding disparities, and in most stat

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

          As a teacher I have about a dozen Arduino learning kits. The trouble is in getting the curriculum committee to agree to allow me to add them into my robotics course (the only class I teach that they slide into).

          I would really like to add them into computer II (I teach one semester courses of Computer i and Computer II, each being a full semester). However, the curriculum committee. Requires that I teach the same topics in both classes, "so that if a student is only able to take one of the classes, they won'

  • zero.

    Number of trades programs in IT and Software, all of the rest of them.

  • I'd rather they taught English. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shess ( 31691 ) on Monday May 28, 2018 @01:21PM (#56689302) Homepage

    I've been a professional software developer for 30 years, and while there certainly are many cases where I've worked with or interviewed people who were lacking in computer-science skills, very little of that was because they weren't getting enough CS teaching in primary and secondary school. I mean, if you've spent 4 years in college getting a CS degree and a few years in industry working and you STILL can't keep up, adding a semester in 11th grade isn't going to help.

    On the other hand, raising English communications proficiency across the board by a single grade level would have HUGE benefits for the industry. Communicating better would likely result in better technical results, too.

    • Mathematics too. As a software engineer, shit is relevant. Pretty much every aspect where public education fails are the most important aspects relevant to software. I fear the dumbing down of tech rather than the emphasis that the next generation step up. Learning to "code" is monkey work. Far more valuable are problem solving skills.

  • In this age, surely it would be trivial to have a national database of all schools, the subjects they teach, and the results they get, (normalised for factors such as budget, intake literacy level etc. If desired), but hey I guess both the teachers unions and the management would be in rare agreement about how that would somehow not in parent and student interest, right?

  • First, ensure there is a solid foundation like basic logic, algebra (great for problem-solving), and basic English skills (so they can read/understand technical references). Until you've mastered those basic skills, any CS class is simply wasted...

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