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United States News

Lights Slowly Come On for Puerto Ricans in Rural Areas (csmonitor.com) 163

Posted by msmash from the marching-forward dept.
Almost a year after two hurricanes ravaged the US territory, repair crews are working to energize the more than 950 homes and businesses that remain without power in hard-to-reach areas. Puerto Ricans remain fearful that their newly returned normality could be short lived. An anonymous reader shares a report: Lights are slowly coming on for the more than 950 homes and businesses across Puerto Rico that remain without power in hard-to-reach areas. Repair crews sometimes have to dig holes by hand and scale down steep mountainsides to reach damaged light posts. Electrical poles have to be ferried in one-by-one via helicopter. It is slow work, and it has stretched nearly two months past the date when officials had promised that everyone in Puerto Rico would be energized. And even as TVs glow into the night and people like delivery man Steven Vilella once again savor favorite foods like shrimp and Rocky Road ice cream, many fear their newly returned normality could be short-lived. Turmoil at the island's power company and recent winds and rains that knocked out electricity to tens of thousands of people at the start of the new hurricane season have them worried.
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Lights Slowly Come On for Puerto Ricans in Rural Areas More

Lights Slowly Come On for Puerto Ricans in Rural Areas

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  • 950 homes? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:19PM (#56957390)
    Why not deliver a portable solar system to each in the interim until the grid can be repaired? It might not provide full capacity, but it will at least allow for basic lighting, refrigeration, etc.

    • Re:950 homes? (Score:5, Informative)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:23PM (#56957420)
      To make it clear: a 600W/12V solar panel, a few 12V batteries, and a 1200W inverter can be had for under $2000.

    • I'm by far not an expert, but does such a thing exist--a "portable" solar system that could provide power for 950 homes?

      • Not a single portable solar system for 950 homes. A portable solar system for EACH of 950 homes. Even if it cost $5000 with transportation and installation, the total would be under $5 million -- chump change compared to what the US spends on other things. (wars, cough, cough)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Revek ( 133289 )

          Hardon helper for old farts. cough cough.

        • It sounds much less practical than a larger system connected to a local grid, though.
          • You can set up a temporary solar system for a home in a few hours. Secure the solar panels somewhere where there's adequate light, run waterproof cable in a protective tube to an open-air location where the battery box will sit, run cable into the home and place the inverter where power is most needed. (Probably the kitchen.) Plug things into the inverter as needed. Done. It won't look sexy, but it will work and be safe.

          • Not really; if it was that hard to connect them there will never be reliability. I am surprised some ESCO didn’t sweep in and get them off-grid. With the cost of re-electrification used as a subsidy for the system, financing via “electric bill” at current rates should have stood rate of return.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Shotgun ( 30919 )

            Delivering power polls by helicopter and then scaling a mountain to install the line does though?

            It's 950 houses that are remote. Solar panels are MUCH more practical.

      • http://hydrogenhouseproject.or... [hydrogenhouseproject.org]

      • Not one- but 950 of them could. And with no transmission wires to be knocked out by a storm, would continue to do so long into the next disaster.

    • Tesla is working with them to build up minigrids with solar and batteries.

      • "Working with them?" What a joke -- Musk is just trying to get free publicity.

        The technology is there NOW and isn't sexy or particularly novel. Chinese solar panels, lead-acid batteries, commodity inverters. Some wire and fuses as well.

        • Tesla is much cheaper and better than the crap from China.
          • $5900 just for the battery pack isn't cheaper than a $2000 emergency system. And the emergency system may actually be more modular, since it's just a few solar panels overcharging a lead-acid battery array. The parts don't need to communicate or be very well matched.
            • 5900 is what you and i pay, not what Tesla was charging Puerto ricans. and an expensive 12v system with a more pollution is not a useful system.

    • Why not deliver a portable solar system to each in the interim until the grid can be repaired?

      Who is going to pay for it? That's the problem with all of this. Puerto Rico is broke and gets little help from the US government despite every citizen of Puerto Rico being a US citizen.

      • The $5 million requires is chump change compared to the US budget. The US OWES Puerto Rico that much and more.

        • Re: Who will pay for it? (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          We do? What do we owe them? I don't remember getting a bill. Can't they pay for themselves?

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by giggleloop ( 5166293 )
            Every (red) state is 'pay for themselves' when it's someone else. Second it's them that's hit by disaster, it instantly shifts to 'we need disaster relief!'

        • Re:Who will pay for it? (Score:4)

          by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @01:32PM (#56957956) Homepage

          There is the flaw in your logic my friend. It's only $5 million to those of us that can do math, but this US government math we are talking about. So in actually to get your plan in place would cost $50 billion and take 20 years.

          Other wise it a great ideal.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Little help? They don't pay income taxes. They're leaching from us.

  • third world country (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:23PM (#56957418) Journal

    Visited there many times.

    It's essentially a third world country, though a territory of the US. An interesting third world country, and I liked many of the people.

    Their odd state of limbo is not really our fault, unless you want to fault us for not being more authoritarian with them, which I doubt.

    There isn't even a Navy base there anymore, which was pretty much the only reason they are a US territory. It had to go, because we are such evil imperialists, ya know.

    • Blame the US banks. Blame antiquated shipping restrictions. Authoritarianism is not what PR needs.

    • Re:third world country (Score:5, Informative)

      by TigerPlish ( 174064 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:35PM (#56957528)

      It's essentially a third world country, though a territory of the US. An interesting third world country, and I liked many of the people.

      I lived there from 1976 - 1989. I won't call it a 3rd-world country at all. The neighborhoods I lived in / hung out at were 1st-world, all the way.

      The PR people see on TV is not all of PR. Yes, a lot of it looks like that.. but another lot of it is immaculate lawns, concrete houses with concrete roofs, pools, etc.

      The media seems obsessed with showing the tin shack side of Puerto Rico.

      Plaza Las Americas, built in 1968, is still my yardstick for malls. The malls in the US may be larger, but the malls here all look unfinished next to Plaza. My family was friends with the family that built Plaza. No expense was spared.

      The power grid, on the other hand, has always been a disgrace. By age 8 I knew how to oil, wick and trim oil lamps and cold-blast hurricane lanterns because the power went out all the time, even in the 1st-world 'hoods. Some of that was the power union -- whenever they need something done to the contract, they'd blow up a couple of large transmission towers. Blam, in the dark for 4 hours.. or all night.

      I could say South Florida is a 3rd-world country, you know. But it isn't. Same with PR.

      • Re:third world country (Score:5, Insightful)

        by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:38PM (#56957556)
        That's typical of developing countries, though -- a large gap between rich and poor neighborhoods. Beautiful houses and malls with tin shacks a mile away. Sadly, the rest of the US is also moving in this direction, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting scraps.

      • It's essentially a third world country, though a territory of the US. An interesting third world country, and I liked many of the people.

        I lived there from 1976 - 1989. I won't call it a 3rd-world country at all. The neighborhoods I lived in / hung out at were 1st-world, all the way.

        I could say the same of every third world country I've visited. All have some nice areas.

    • Visited there many times.

      It's essentially a third world country...

      How many actual third world countries have you visited?

      • Visited there many times.

        It's essentially a third world country...

        How many actual third world countries have you visited?

        Depends on your criteria, I suppose.

        15, perhaps? Most of them, courtesy of Uncle Sam. Generally outside of touristy Potemkin villages too.

        You?

    • Visited there many times.

      It's essentially a third world country, though a territory of the US. An interesting third world country, and I liked many of the people.

      Their odd state of limbo is not really our fault, unless you want to fault us for not being more authoritarian with them, which I doubt.

      There isn't even a Navy base there anymore, which was pretty much the only reason they are a US territory. It had to go, because we are such evil imperialists, ya know.

      I've never been to PR but I HAVE been to third world countries. From what I can glean about PR, it isn't even *close* to third world. Haiti, now THAT'S third world.

  • I find it amazing that, in the 21st century, the utility we've come to rely on the most is the least reliable. Here in central Florida, we call the power company "Florida Flicker and Flash" because virtually any weather anomaly causes power fluctuations or outages. I can't imagine what it's like in PR.
    • what amazes me, is that ppl down there have not pushed solar/batteries. Instead, they continue to push generators which are stolen after hurricanes.
      My dad lived in Stewart (now Jupiter), and I pushed for him to install solar. But, it turns out that the entire state of Florida makes it difficult to do that.

    • Why hasn't Florida run all electricity in underground waterproof cables yet?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Cuz Florida's water table tends to be shallow and a large portion of the state sits on top of unstable homogenous limestone which combined results in a lot of problems with sinkholes. Some subdivisions have underground power and surprise, a sinkhole opens or the insulation on a cable gets corroded breaking the connection. Moreover it's a large state with a lot of protected wetland where digging is not allowed.

    • What's amazing about that? Do you not have any other experiences with government regulated monopolies to compare it against?

  • Statehood would help against cruelty. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @12:33PM (#56957502)

    Puerto Rico should become a state. Write in a Texas-style escape clause if you want to placate your folks who dream fantasies of an island-nation empire.

    Puerto Rico is an enormously productive place - with wonderful people who are technologically capable, and an amazing history of overcoming strife.

    But right now, it is also once again a place of unprecedented cruelty imposed on it, mostly due to political demands.

    Statehood would mean senators, congressmen, shared defense (you already have many, many of your people in our armies), and yes, disaster relief with less wiggle room than our Republicans tend to always take in large disasters.

    Also, breaking that '50' magic number would also help places like Washington DC escape from a similar turmoil.

    You're more populous than most states, for goodness sake:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Oh, and you'll help us vote against Trump more effectively this way.

    Ryan Fenton

    • Problem is that, if PR becomes a state, it will be liable to pay taxes to DC for DC's military adventurism, failed drug wars, etc. American military adventurism doesn't actually benefit Puerto Rico.

      Far better would be independence combined with complete debt forgiveness. Let the American banks eat it.

    • Correction: Meant many US states there, not most. My bad - but it's close, especially if you consider the percent that have taken up lives on the mainland. It definitely wouldn't have any issues on basis of population.

      Ryan Fenton

    • Puerto Rico should become a state. Write in a Texas-style escape clause if you want to placate your folks who dream fantasies of an island-nation empire.

      The problem with any State; be it Texas, or a future Puerto Rican state; they wouldn't be allowed to leave (unless the US didn't want them). I guarantee if Texas claimed independence tomorrow- they'd be being run directly from DC as a rebel occupied territory by Friday.

      • Yep, as written by someone far smarter then those here "If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede."
        • Things change. Soviet satellite states tried to secede in the 1930s, 50s, and 60s, and were brutally crushed. In the 80s and 90s, the revolutions finally succeeded. The trick was finding a time when the mother country was weak, and exploiting it, as well as exploiting world opinion. Hopefully such a time will come from the Northeastern and Western parts of the US as well. The Civil War was great in that it ended slavery in the US. But may Lincoln RIH for setting a precedent that states are chained to

          • The Soviet constitution was different -- it was a supranational entity of sorts. And more importantly, it was dominated by Russia so it was easily dissolved by the choice of Russia (Yeltsin specifically). What were the other republics of the USSR going to do, invade Russia?

            The USA is much more challenging to break apart, but fortunately I think it can be done if a popular consensus can be built for it in a couple of large states like California and Texas (that pair would be ideal for bi-partisan support). I

      • If a large majority (say 2/3 or 3/4ths) of the people of Texas -- or any other state -- actually wanted independence, they'd get it. Not on their preferred terms perhaps, but they'd get it because the people of the USA would be unwilling to continue occupying an unwilling state. The civil war was very different because there was no consensus among the peoples of the rebel states to leave, only among their elected officials (elected by while males only).

    • The reason they're not voting for statehood is because their current status as a U.S. territory means residents don't pay Federal income tax [wikipedia.org]. As a territory, they get the benefits of being a state (Federal assistance and participation in Federal programs), without having to pay for it.

      The Trump administration foot-dragging on the hurricane disaster response in Puerto Rico is a tactic to pressure them to hurry up and decide - do they want to become a state, or become independent as a new country? Right

    • Two problems:
      A) Many in PR don't want to be a state.
      B) Existing states don't want to let anyone become a new state. (see also Statehood movement in the District of Columbia) [wikipedia.org]

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Puerto Rico can't even get a referendum passed in that country for statehood with the support of other political parties beside the ruling one(PNP). IOW, no majority of Puerto Ricans can be bothered to show up at the polls to vote for statehood. They've tried in 1967, 1993, 1998, 2012 (all during Democratic administrations), and 2017 (Obama allocated money for federal support of referendum) and failed every single time.

      http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/337751-puerto-rico-statehood-bid-a-total- [thehill.com]

    • The US only cares about the White and the Wealthy. Being part of the US didn't help those thousands of people killed in New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina. PR would be better off if they left the US entirely.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by DanDD ( 1857066 )

        I agree with your sentiment that the culture of the US has some serious problems with racism.

        However, the language and intent of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments actually provide some real weapons in fighting racism.

        As a reference and example, as poor as it is, it is still quite relevant: The American Civil War [wikipedia.org]

        While the US has problems, at least it has the ability and track record for ongoing self repair and improvement.

  • It seems logical in a place prone to get hit at least once if not more a summer by a hurricane that there should be an emphasis on burying the lines, particularly the high voltage transmission backbone lines. This, along with 'micro-grids' powered by solar or other means with battery backups would help ensure the island doesn't go completely dark at once. It will be a major undertaking, but the alternative is Puerto Ricans reverting back to the 19th century every year for 9 months.

    • It seems logical in a place prone to get hit at least once if not more a summer by a hurricane that there should be an emphasis on burying the lines, particularly the high voltage transmission backbone lines.

      Puerto Rico get hit by a hurricaine about every three years [sun-sentinel.com] on average.

      As for burying lines, it's a fine idea but an expensive one. Burying lines costs about 5X as much [elp.com] per mile just to lay the lines. And maintenance becomes an issue when you have to dig to solve a problem. Remember that Puerto Rico has a lot of financial problems so spending extra to bury the lines is going to be difficult for purely financial reasons if nothing else.

  • Given there are approximately 1.26 million households [census-charts.com] and 43,000 businesses [census.gov]in Puerto Rico, this is actually pretty much a non-issue. We're talking about 0.07% of the homes and businesses in PR that are left without power. My guess is you get close to that in any given US city just from daily work/repairs and accidents (drunks hitting power poles, etc).

    • Low Math IQ (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The homes without power are systematically without power. The daily work/repairs and accident number is on top of that.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      i dont think that any given city in the US lets its citizens go without power for almost a year.

      its a big difference if you do not have power for 1-2 days compared to having no power for almost a year.

      have you ever had to live a year without external power supply?
      i have not and i dont want to find out how much pain it is.

    • this is actually pretty much a non-issue.

      To those 950 grid connected homes that have been without power for nearly a fucking year it is an issue. The fact that it takes close to a year to restore power to your population is likewise.

      You posted below that you lived without power for a year in a shitty little village. Making a decision to live without power is not the same as having your formerly grid connected life cut-off. Life builds around expectations. If you change the expectations it's suddenly a big problem.

  • ...for this hurricane season.

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