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Education Privacy Technology

Saint Louis University Is Outfitting Student Living Spaces With Thousands of Echo Dots (techcrunch.com) 174

Saint Louis University announced this week a plan to outfit living spaces with 2,300 Echo Dots. The smart speakers will be ready by the time classes start later this month. TechCrunch reports: SLU is quick to note that it's "the first college or university in the country to bring Amazon Alexa-enabled devices, managed by Alexa for Business, into every student residence hall room and student apartment on campus." It's certainly not the first to adopt Amazon's smart speakers, but it's among the largest scale for this sort of deployment. While the product has become a mainstay in plenty of American homes, it does seem like an odd choice dorms and student campus. SLU has worked with Alexa for Business to create 100 custom questions, including, "What time does the library close tonight?" and "Where is the registrar's office?"

The company addressed [the privacy concerns] on a privacy page, writing: "Because of our use of the Amazon Alexa for Business (A4B) platform, your Echo Dot is managed by a central system dedicated to SLU. This system is not tied to individual accounts and does not maintain any personal information for any of our users, so all use currently is anonymous. Additionally, neither Alexa nor the Alexa for Business management system maintains recordings of any questions that are asked."

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Saint Louis University Is Outfitting Student Living Spaces With Thousands of Echo Dots

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  • Alexa... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:02AM (#57158730)
    What is the answer to question #3?
  • by Anonymous Coward

    "Additionally, neither Alexa nor the Alexa for Business management system maintains recordings of any questions that are asked."

    • by MrMr ( 219533 )
      Weasel words. The input is parsed and transcribed. Who needs a recording?
      • Weasel words. The input is parsed and transcribed. Who needs a recording?

        Lie words. I have a Dot. Using the Alexa app, I can listen to the recording of every time Alexa has woken up and thought she was asked something. I don't know what "Alexa Business" does, but Alexa certainly does make and keep recordings.

        Or is there some new definition of "recording" where "a digitized copy of audio that can be played back later" does not count as a "recording"?

  • Currently (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:08AM (#57158756)

    All use is currently anonymous. Let's just nudge that temperature a degree higher. You won't notice yet.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:13AM (#57158786)

    Why?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:30AM (#57158878)

      Because your government decided to subsidize college education to the tune of 20k+ per student per year in the form of college loans. Colleges that used to cost 5k per year to attend are now 30k per year because the educators know you still have that original 5k + inflation.

    • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:37AM (#57158916)
      Because your university keeps adding nice to have features like Echo Dots instead of investing in actually teaching you something.
      • Because your university keeps adding nice to have features like Echo Dots instead of investing in actually teaching you something.

        Whereas what you say is undeniably true; one could say that this has been fairly inexpensive advertising. As cheap as dots are commercially (frequently on sale $30 or less)- this probably cost SLU in bulk $20 each or less. If they have 5,000 dorm rooms that's $100k at most (I see they have about 13,000 students- some surely live off campus and the others I'm sure are two to a room- so they probably have less than 5,000 dorm rooms in reality).

        $100k sounds a lot of money, but it's probably a fairly cheap a

      • do want to bet double or nothing on your student loan?

      • Teaching you something is completely orthogonal to their purpose.

      • This also hides the fact that so many "college students" are completely illiterate. If you cannot read what does it mean to consult a website?
    • Alexa why can't I rent my own apartment for less? WITH OUT ROOM MATES + MY OWN BATHROOM?

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        Alexa: State law and regulations passed by the board of trustees require that all Freshman or other students with less than 30 completed course hours attending public university live on campus, unless you are enrolled only part-time, married, age 21 years or older, have dependent children, live with a parent or guardian within a 25-mile radius of campus, or can show proof of a medical need preventing you from living in provided dorms.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:15AM (#57158794)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:Big Brother (Score:4, Informative)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:55AM (#57159022) Journal
      Big Data is Watching.
    • or, if it stresses you, you could cover thing the with a soundproofing box or substance, and go on with life.

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:19PM (#57159930)
      Huxley, not Orwell. In Orwell's 1984, the masses are subjugated by an elite. In Huxley's Brave New World [wikipedia.org], the masses are seduced by all sorts of entertainment and conveniences available in a modern society, so they can be controlled by the elite. Any form of dissent is viewed as socially abnormal, so it was society you had to fear, not retribution by the elite. Actually, I'm not sure if an all-controlling elite even existed (it could be inferred since the social structure would make it possible). It may have just been all of society being self-guided by hedonism and self-appointed morals.
    • I can't see them having campus police knocking on people's dormroom doors because they unplugged the damnable thing from power, insisting they plug them back in. I also can't see them nailing the thing down and hardwiring it into power so you can't turn it off.
    • Re:Big Brother (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:44PM (#57160118) Journal
      Just answered my own question:

      The school notes that students can also mute the microphone. Students can’t technically opt-out, but they can unplug the product and shove it in a drawer, turning it in at the end of the year. Just don’t use it as a hockey puck, because that’ll cost you.

  • So, Saint Louis "University" admits to the world that A) they're entirely irrelevant and B) they clearly know it, but C) are unable to think of any solutions to the problem other than unimaginative gimmicks that'll drive the "institution" into further irrelevance.

    This is, of course, a real shocker to the rest of us.

    • So, Saint Louis "University" admits to the world that A) they're entirely irrelevant and B) they clearly know it, but C) are unable to think of any solutions to the problem other than unimaginative gimmicks that'll drive the "institution" into further irrelevance.

      So you're saying they are typical of universities.

  • by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:20AM (#57158820)

    The company addressed [the privacy concerns] on a privacy page

    Personally, I would be more inclined to address the "privacy concerns" with a screwdriver or a baseball bat.

    • Why not just a few fingers? Pull the USB plug out of the jack. Or hack the fucking thing to prank your roommate and be controlled neither by Scamazon nor the uni.
  • by upuv ( 1201447 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:20AM (#57158824) Journal

    Seriously.

    This is all wrong. Young people will not understand what they are giving away here.

  • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:33AM (#57158890)
    Alexa...How can the net amount of entropy of the universe be massively decreased?
  • Tape over the mic (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Revek ( 133289 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:36AM (#57158902)

    There has to be a way to block the mic. Actively, a white noise generator right next to it. Passively, covering the mic so it can't hear anything.

  • Memory Mic... Mind Mic
    Listening Lamp... Attention Appliance
    E-ear... Hailing Mic
    Ear Hustler... Deaf Dongle
    Sound Snagger... Noise Nabber
    Utter Bank...?
  • *AHEM!*
    "We're listening..."

  • by sjgman9 ( 456705 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:53AM (#57158994)

    Disconnect the things, or failing that, put it in a soundproof box, or wrap it with duct tape. Lots of duct tape.

    There should be a choice to install these things, an informed choice!

  • you have an right to privacy in hotels rented rooms are the same.
    Worst case some should sue for the right to not be forced to live on college campus

  • FERPA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mrwireless ( 1056688 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:56AM (#57159026)
    Form what I can tell there's some debate about whether FERPA laws would allow this.

    FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act):
    https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen... [ed.gov]

    This school admin even asks how he can remove Alexa form the network:
    https://community.spiceworks.c... [spiceworks.com]
    • Q.
      "A student has an Echo and adds the Canvas Skill to their Alexa account. Anyone (roommates, friends, colleagues) who is in proximity of that Echo can then ask Canvas about that students' grades."

      A.
      Yeah, this could happen.

      From a developer of a Alexa Skill that tells you your grades:
      https://community.canvaslms.co... [canvaslms.com]
      • "A student has an Echo and adds the Canvas Skill to their Alexa account.

        A choice made by the student. A poor choice, but still his choice. It is essentially no different than a student posting his grade reports on the building bulletin board.

        They aren't student accounts for the SLU Dots. Students can run their own Dot and make stupid choices, but SLU hasn't made that choice for them.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I'm sure there's FERPA discussion, but FERPA is just a silly catch-all for anything and everything someone doesn't like. In my experience, about 90% of the things discussed in academia in light of FERPA actually have nothing to do with FERPA. Most people who bring it up have never read the document, and have no clue what is talks about. FERPA in no way prohibits listening devices in students' rooms. It is only a regulation about the release (not even the securing, but really the release) of educational reco
    • FERPA is a wonderful way to ignore parents calling with questions about their students.

      Not sure if true but I was instructed to not even give away if their son/daughter attended the school; the reason given was there are parents out there who for whatever reason want to prevent their offspring from going to college, so the student deserves anonymity even from them.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:58AM (#57159048)

    are kicking themselves.

    Just give the microphones a brandname and make it a lifestyle product, and people will PAY you to install them in their homes/workspaces.

    Who knew people were this stupid? Fucking idiots.

  • "currently" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SlaveToTheGrind ( 546262 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:59AM (#57159070)

    What a strange word to choose to include in a sentence trying to reassure people about privacy.

  • if student loans had bankruptcy then the banks then will the schools you need to cut costs and not jack up rates / fees for this!

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      But do they have money-back guarantees for grammar?

    • by 1ucius ( 697592 )

      I'd argue we have the rough equivalent of bankruptcy. Income based repayment and the whole 20 year forgiveness. As a bonus, they don't count for the whole once-every-seven years thing.

  • Jesus Christ (Score:5, Insightful)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:19AM (#57159188) Journal

    I thought I was glad that there were no camera-phones during my stupid college years; this is so colossally bad ... I can only hope that there remains a faint flicker of resistance in today's youth, such that this spawns an entire generation of people adept and practiced at breaking ubiquitous surveillance.

    I fear not, honestly.

    • breaking is the right word.

      just go around with a bat and a friend, practice those pitching and hitting skills. Any self righteous goody-goody who wants to stop you should have sense enough not to mouth off to a crazy motherfucker swinging a bat, amIright?

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:25AM (#57159222)

    Hundreds of Echo Dots in a broom closet with am MP3 player looping Nickelback.

    • Rick Astley. Rickroll whoever is listening. Hasselhof also works. Or Britney Spears...
  • Dear SLU... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ConceptJunkie ( 24823 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:52AM (#57159376) Homepage Journal

    "1984" was a warning, not a proposal. Putting Orwell's telescreens (minus the screen) in everyone's room makes you look creepy. Should I report to Minitrue for debriefing?

  • Fixed Headline (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zorro ( 15797 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:53AM (#57159378)

    Saint Louis University Is Outfitting Student Living Spaces With Thousands of Surveilance Bugs.

  • Although it should be obvious that these devices can and will be used for eavesdropping, it's not necessary. College students post their entire private lives onto social media anyway.
  • Student convicted and expelled and blacklisted for being an ebul hax0r after unplugging one of them in 3... 2.... 1....

  • I already told me roommate I'd smash one if it was in the house. Fuck that nose. Disconnect it and throw it out your dorm room window. Do not want.

    • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 )

      I'm 54 years old and never heard of nasal intercourse.

      So, is your roommates nose wide? deep? nice and tight? Because I'm guessing you're not...puny...but probably average sized at least.

      • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

        While the meaning of the word has changed to be similar to "docking", the word for this practice used to be "snoodling", and that has been around for decades now. The fact that you haven't previously heard of this indicates you didn't follow alt.tasteless back in the day.

        • er, no, snoodling is placing penis head inside foreskin of another.

          true I didn't follow alt.tasteless but I did have to work near marketing department, they're the scum of the earth. degenerates would be nauseated at their banter.

  • Can I drive past the dorms with a megaphone blaring, "Alexa: order 2 dozen cases of extra-small Trojans!" over and over again?
  • The state's wiretapping law makes no distinction to whether or not the people being listened to are "anonymous".

    It also doesn't matter if conversations aren't "recorded" - all the law cares about is interception (and they are recorded - saved as text).

    Lastly, it doesn't matter if the students all agree to the presence of these devices, that doesn't cover visitors.

    So why isn't this illegal?

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