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Security United States

Germany, Seeking Independence From US, Pushes Cyber Security Research (reuters.com) 160

Germany announced a new agency earlier this week to fund research on cyber security and to end its reliance on digital technologies from the United States, China and other countries. From a report: Interior Minister Horst Seehofer told reporters that Germany needed new tools to become a top player in cyber security and shore up European security and independence. "It is our joint goal for Germany to take a leading role in cyber security on an international level," Seehofer told a news conference with Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen. "We have to acknowledge we're lagging behind, and when one is lagging, one needs completely new approaches."
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Germany, Seeking Independence From US, Pushes Cyber Security Research

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    So cringy.

    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday September 03, 2018 @07:47AM (#57245632)

      It's Seehofer. Germany's version of a deep-south republican senator.

      To be honest, we're happy he can talk in a way that conveys what he means. When I think of the infamous "Transrapid" speech of his predecessor... Even as a German native speaker you were left wondering what the fuck he was talking about.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        To be fair, this basically just makes the stupid easier to see.

        • You didn't hear about "Bavaria One", I get it? Same party, different goofball.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            Well, Bavaria is basically the insane asylum of Germany (to quote Otto), so nothing surprises me there. I only follow German politics casually these days, although I used to live there.

            • I'll take happy, drunk Bavarians over goose stepping Prussians with sticks up their asses.

              • by gweihir ( 88907 )

                Unfortunately, the Bavarians have both. While technically there is no historic overlap between Bavaria and Prussia, the mind-set is quite present there.

              • Are those the ones that get pissed off and start swearing because the bus was 30 seconds late?

                All they're missing is a toothbrush moustache.

                • by gweihir ( 88907 )

                  Public transportation worldwide plans in 1 minute intervals or worse. The only exception I know is Zurich, were it is 30 seconds.

            • Or with the words of another comedian "The CSU wants to kick everyone out that can't speak proper German? Fuck, where are all the Bavarians gonna go? And what about the CSU, there's asylum for war refugees but what country grants asylum to people fleeing from intelligence?"

  • by Sique ( 173459 ) on Monday September 03, 2018 @07:26AM (#57245572) Homepage
    Germany outlawed the ownership of "hacking tools" (202c StGB [gesetze-im-internet.de], "Acts preparatory to data espionage and phishing") , and all of a sudden, Internet security research in Germany is lagging.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Stupidity is the name of the game in Germany when the government collides with the Internet.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    I'm serious: the Israeli security forces, both physical and cybersecurity, are extremely effective for the same reason that penguins survive cold: Darwin forces their evolution. Now, Germany relying on Jewish security forces would be a wonderful irony.

  • 70% of the budget (Score:4, Insightful)

    by grungeman ( 590547 ) on Monday September 03, 2018 @08:05AM (#57245662)
    will be spent on GDPR compliance. The remaining budget will be spent on foreign consultants, because using "hacking tools" is a crime in Germany, so no one knows how to use them.
    • Yeah, that GDPR bullshit really cut into our bottom line.

      ---signed, foreign security company.

    • 70% of the budget will be spent on GDPR compliance.

      No it won't. It's pretty easy to be compliant. Basically ask yourself:

      Are you being an asshat with your users' data?

      If the answer is "hell no" you're in the clear. If it's "yes but" then you are not compliant.

      The essence is actually easy. Don't keep stuff you don't need to keep. And delete stuff when users tell you to delete it. Everything else follows from that easily (e.g. requests for data). 99.9% of the complaints are from people who can't be arsed to a

      • by Anonymous Coward

        You can claim that all you want, but the reality is very different. My company left the EU over this laws passage. We're not doing anything malicious with our data on our customers. However there are serious costs to compliance. Not every business has a staff of lawyers available to review the law even if compliance were simple. Which I'd argue it's not for a small business. The reality is this wasn't the only terrible law in the EU and a lot of small businesses aren't compliant now. People like you say "ju

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      In this case at a guess, 100% of the budget will be spent on figuring out what they need to do, what the problems are and what possible solutions could be.

      That they are looking for solutions no other government controls would point to FOSS and so you can expect a major resurgence of FOSS in the EU. The EU absolutely does no trust US government security letters no US corporations, any more. I reckon they have figured out the US corporations they were paying, were back dooring everything they were buying.

      Thi

    • by Xarius ( 691264 )

      Most of the western EU countries are already 90% of the way to GDPR compliance with their existing Data Protection legislation.

      GDPR will cost large corporations money for failing to comply, again they should be mostly compliant anyway thanks to existing legislation. GDPR just harmonises it all and gives powers back to individuals.

  • Not surprising... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ph1ll ( 587130 ) <ph1ll1phenryNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Monday September 03, 2018 @08:07AM (#57245670)
    ... after Obama wiretapped the German leader's 'phone [telegraph.co.uk].
    • Yes, and Germany apologized long and deeply for the chancellor boring the CIA out of their mind, could we already let it rest?

      Then again, why did they have to wiretap her, to know this all you really had to do is to listen to one of her speeches...

    • Re:Not surprising... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Monday September 03, 2018 @08:19AM (#57245706)

      ... after Obama wiretapped the German leader's 'phone [telegraph.co.uk].

      Well, let's not forget that Merkel and co are not overwhelmed by Trump either and see him as a threat to global peace.

      That's two presidents in a row that Germany has had legitimate grievances with, and they came from either side of the political spectrum. It is perfectly understandable why Germany might not see the US as a very reliable ally.

      • Do you rip your "allies" off in trade? Germany is a security free-rider that exploits American generosity to run a massive trade surplus. For a country flush with cash and a large budget surplus, it should be able to spend 2 percent of gross domestic product on defense. NATO is a *mutual* defense alliance, do you refuse to carry your share of the burden? To have a military alliance, you must have a military. Germany doesn't really have one. Moreover Germany has a horribly hypocritical stance towards Russi

        • by nnet ( 20306 )
          What's Merkel doing about human rights abuses of Americans IN America?
  • All German federal activities in the Internet so far have been uninformed, counter-productive, very late and generally of negative utility. This one will be the same.

  • Europeans can hee and haw all they want about how things are different and oh so better in their countries. At the end of the day when America says jump, European politicians always ask how high.

    Besides, that welfare state won't look so good when Germany has to start paying for its own self defense instead of relying on foreign powers.

    • by owlaf ( 5251737 )
      They were fine heeing and hawing to their public, then jumping for 'merica when asked. Now with all the fight picking Trump has done, they will put real effort into becoming independent from 'merica. China isn't just laughing, they are salivating. If Trump thinks google is biased, wait for the censorship China deploys on their internet to become global under One Belt One Road
      • Just wait until sovereign nations 'realize' that national debt to China can be defaulted on, just like any other. Agreements to arbitrate in Chinese courts hold no weight.

        The Chinese government will have kittens.

      • Not a lot of Americans know much about the Road and Belt initiative, which is kind of frightening.

  • In a further statement, the minister said "we will be importing vast numbers of people with completely different worldviews to work on this security initiative. What could possibly go wrong?"
  • Great! The Germans secure their own physical boarders as well. The 2017 US expenditures increased to $43B on Germany alon3:
    https://tradingeconomics.com/g... [tradingeconomics.com]
    If they want independence from the US, they can flip the entire bill for their country. I'm sure we can find some roads, bridges or schools that need some investment here in the US with that 43 billion dollar windfall.
    • When the US spends $43B on it's military in Germany, the bulk amount of that money goes to US suppliers of said military, plus wages to the US soldiers. Some of that money makes it's way into the German economy, but a bunch of it stays with US companies and citizens.

  • It's so pathetic when German politicians of the same kind that just scrapped well deployed Linux installations for government use in exchange for the US-Trojan "Windows" speak of "cyber security". No government is really free while it still depends on proprietary software controlled by software from a country far away.
  • Why any country with the capability to develop its own system would rely on other countries to do it for them has always been a mystery to me. It makes the 'security' part of the term meaningless.

As you will see, I told them, in no uncertain terms, to see Figure one. -- Dave "First Strike" Pare

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