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United States Businesses Technology

Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' (axios.com) 114

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.
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Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' More

Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'

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  • But for how long? (Score:3)

    by DMJC ( 682799 ) on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:27PM (#57266082)
    Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86 CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money at the problem. https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]

    • In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are plenty of significant advances happening that space right now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jon3k ( 691256 )
      By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.

    • But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is already freaking enough people out.

      Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what running on it that you will never be able to see, has access to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your computer" and "your data".
      Most countries would probably just ban them like they are doing for 5G telecom equipment already. [nytimes.com]

      • We already have American CPUs doing exactly what you describe. As an European myself, I don't know the difference between being spied on by the Americans or the Chinese.

        • We already have American CPUs doing exactly what you describe.

          Yes. Thats the reason I said it.
          You personally may not care. But your government might. If you see the fuss being made already with China being banned for 5G telecom tenders. It will only be worse for CPU's with backdoors as well.

  • Yeah, but . . . (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dtmos ( 447842 ) * on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:28PM (#57266092)

    . . . computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made by exactly two companies, Samsung [samsungfoundry.com] and TSMC [tsmc.com], with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement that it is stopping development of its 7nm process [anandtech.com]. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill, NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art foundry services with a fab in the US.

    Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a foundry business [intel.com], but it cannot seem to successfully operate it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel -- which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next generation.

    If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.

    • Re:Yeah, but . . . (Score:5, Informative)

      by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) * on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:18PM (#57266560)

      State of the art lithography is not a synonym for high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses, DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.

      Well that's an easy as shit choice: B.

      All you have to do is mutter "national security" and in come the billions.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by KalvinB ( 205500 )

      They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if they're really needed by the government. The government generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.

      We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national security issue that won't change.

    • Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products. Intel will always build their own products on the latest process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an entire new factory just for you. Then you h

      • No, AMD threw away its savings to build their next generation fab by buying ATI at a premium over the stock market price at the time ATI's stock price hit all time highs. Had they waited a single year to buy ATI, they could have bought for less than half the price.

        Then there were a lot of shenenigans involved in the GlobalFroundries spin-off which resulted in an investigation which put ex-AMD CEO and later President Hector Ruiz in court and got him expelled as President of GlobalFoundries.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Lithography sizes are mostly LIES now, just compare Intel's 10nm vs Samsung and TSMC 7nm. Wikipedia link with references [wikipedia.org]

  • Poor writing in TFA (Score:5, Informative)

    by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:52PM (#57266206) Journal

    "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."

    This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:

    "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

    • Still somewhat misleading... (Score:5, Informative)

      by YuppieScum ( 1096 ) on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:20PM (#57266338) Journal
      Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).

      In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as well, but less of their overall product range derives from it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).

        Qualcomm's Kyro ARM cores are based on modified ARM designs. Apple's ARM cores have been pretty independent of ARM's designs. That's why Apple's SoCs can post the benchmarks they do. (They are extremely fast - even the old A10X chips still outrun the latest Samsung chips, which outrun even the SnapDragon 845)

    • "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."

      This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:

      "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

      I thought that the best chips were designed in Israel for Intel and for others.

  • Are you sure? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:17PM (#57266320)
    TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel and Dubai.

    • AMD does not make chips. It designs them. They spun off their foundries as Global Foundries in 2009.

  • 4th leading export? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    The author must have forgotten about all the military weapons and hardware we export each year...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The author must have forgotten about all the military weapons and hardware we export each year...

      That's foreign "aid".

  • 13% market share is not good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Goldsmith ( 561202 ) on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:34PM (#57266884)

    This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this industry.

    • I came here to say this but thanks for adding some numbers to it.

      My nextdoor neighbour is a blacksmith and makes those wonderful "old" style metal works you often see on doors and fences. Having someone make something in the country doesn't mean the industry is alive and well.

      • Another issue is that even if you make chips and semiconductors, thats still different from high end production using state of the art technology.
        I.E Brazil has been trying to get a internal industry for electronics for quite some time now, mostly by tariffs instead of long term economic plans. End result is that things like watches, electronic toll, cameras is being made in Brazil for Brazilian marked. So there is many low end silicon on chip products, being made and not exported. And the situation is simi

  • ... will be.

    Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil.

    So, import tariffs on US-made (or just "foreign made", for "foreign" meaning "not in ASEAN, EU, etc) will increase to strangle the export of them until the US plants either shut down or have to drop their export prices drastically.

    {SLOW HANDCLAP] for the Tiny-Handed Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief.

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