Microsoft is Interrupting Chrome and Firefox Installations To Promote Its Edge Browser in the Newest Windows 10 Build (betanews.com) 234
An anonymous reader shares a report: If you open Edge and search for "Chrome" or "Firefox" using Bing, Edge's default search engine, you'll be presented with a massive banner informing you that "Microsoft Edge is the faster, safer browser on Windows 10 and is already installed on your PC." Four boxes below then show you how Edge lets you browse longer, and faster, offers built-in protection and built-in assistance. If that doesn't stop you, then Microsoft has a new, much nastier trick up its sleeve -- when you go to install Firefox or Chrome it intercepts the action and pops up a window promoting Edge with the same line about how its browser is faster and safer. It then gives you a blue button to click to open Edge, or a grey one you can click to install the browser you actually want to use. Oh, and this window will keep appearing, unless you go into Settings and stop Windows 10 from offering you app "recommendations."
UPDATE (9/15/18): "After massive backlash by users against this move, Microsoft has finally decided to eliminate the warning message," reports Neowin.
Further reading: Creator of Opera Says Google Deliberately Undermined His New Vivaldi Web Browser.
UPDATE (9/15/18): "After massive backlash by users against this move, Microsoft has finally decided to eliminate the warning message," reports Neowin.
Further reading: Creator of Opera Says Google Deliberately Undermined His New Vivaldi Web Browser.
Whooptie doo (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Whooptie doo (Score:5, Informative)
Yes that is annoying. However, even after bypassing all that
It then gives you a blue button to click to open Edge, or a grey one you can click to install the browser you actually want to use.
That's a new low.
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desperation (Score:5, Interesting)
A company with competitive products in the target markets would not have any need to resort to this kind of advertising. The fact that these ads exist is Microsoft's tacit admission that Windows as a consumer product has failed to compete with Google Android and Chrome OS.
I needed a cheap Windows system recently, and I was pleasantly surprised that an old corporate desktop with a Win7 Pro license key still activates under Windows 10. This would never have been allowed when Windows was the primary consumer OS, but those days are long gone.
Microsoft has one choice, and only one, to achieve significant penetration with Edge: open the source. There is nothing else that will help - nothing.
Re:desperation (Score:5, Interesting)
I needed a cheap Windows system recently, and I was pleasantly surprised that an old corporate desktop with a Win7 Pro license key still activates under Windows 10.
Will you be equally surprised when Windows 10 switches to a monthly payment model?
Because that's the long term plan for still allowing "upgrades" from Windows 7 machines.
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Win7 is still the dominant desktop OS, and Microsoft seems desperate for Win10 to supplant it. Attempts to levy new fees will drive systems away, either to Linux (likely ChromiumOS or Ubuntu) or to reinstalled Win7.
M$ may be foolish enough to try new fees, but that will stop when a 5% market share drop occurs, which would be relatively quick.
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This doesn't seem practical. I could see them going this way moving forward but they won't be able to force all windows 10 users to start subscribing or else lose their computer. If they do this it would be best to use a different name (Windows 365?) to avoid confusion. Yes, over time they'll see fewer and fewer updates, that's normal as Microsoft hates supporting paying customers (which includes those who paid for a product more than a month prior).
The standard for the home has been "it costs nothing as
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Why do they need significant penetration with Edge? They're not going to parlay Edge into success in Mobile - or, as they tried with IE, to prevent web-based applications from replacing Windows native apps. So what are they getting for their investment in Edge?
Perhaps the ability to compete with ChromeOS? Even so, why not just build another wrapper around Webkit? And in that case, why care whether users select it or not? Just fooling - I assume the reason is that they want to track your web usage - and
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It seems that Microsoft wants to stay relevant on the new platforms, and I have found them useful. I flew on Spirit airlines recently, and gmail doesn't properly show the QR on the boarding pass email. Outlook for Android does, so it's on my phone.
Outlook likely bundles the Edge rendering engine (Trident?), and I'll tolerate it for my use case. I will not consider it for a stand-alone browser until, like Apple and Google, the code opens. The security community seems to agree on that.
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Microsoft has one choice, and only one, to achieve significant penetration with Edge: open the source. There is nothing else that will help - nothing.
Even that is not guaranteed. Open source Edge would have to compete against the equally open source Firefox. ;)
With people who only care about "free as in beer", the competition is Chrome. These people seem to be the majority. Chrome is based on open source Chromium, and there is a privacy-oriented fork of that called Iron. Sounds good but has little market share (I have not tried it out myself yet, so far I'm content with SeaMonkey
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Firefox's Gecko really had performance problems until recently.
Microsoft can write tight, fast code, and Gecko might be able to outright take, or at least be inspired by, innovations in Edge that they could see.
When Ballmer called the GPL a virus, this is likely his chief fear.
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It then gives you a blue button to click to open Edge, or a grey one you can click to install the browser you actually want to use.
That's a new low.
Sure about that? Hasn't Microsoft in the past, deliberately caused foreign programs, like browsers to malfunction for no reason?
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Yes that is annoying. However, even after bypassing all that
It then gives you a blue button to click to open Edge, or a grey one you can click to install the browser you actually want to use.
That's a new low.
No it's not.
When GWX (Get Windows 10) was first released very first thing it did was to grabbed info from everybody sending it to 157.56.106.185
157.56.106.185 as it was in my HOSTS file and the file (600K) never got out or sent.
Re:Whooptie doo (Score:5, Informative)
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Windows is Microsoft's product. They can build into it what they want, especially since they don't have a monopoly anymore.
Err, actually they still do have monopoly. Many software used in many big companies can be run under Windows only. Of course, you could run a VM Windows, that still doesn't invalidate how low they did here.
Re:Whooptie doo (Score:5, Insightful)
Chrome does the same thing when you open IE/Edge and navigate to google.com.
No, Google the search engine gives you an ad for their product when you search for a competitor. I have no problem with Bing doing that either.
The operating system itself giving you an ad for a competing product when you try to install something, however, is a different animal entirely.
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Chrome does the same thing when you open IE/Edge and navigate to google.com.
No, Google the search engine gives you an ad for their product when you search for a competitor. I have no problem with Bing doing that either.
The operating system itself giving you an ad for a competing product when you try to install something, however, is a different animal entirely.
Speaking of different animal entirely, your mistake was confusing Windows 10 for an operating system.
In reality, pushing Edge is nothing more than the vendor pushing an ad for their product. The entire neutered "OS" has turned into little more than a marketing tool.
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It's a steaming pile of spyware built on top of an arguably otherwise acceptable operating system. If we could have the latter without the former, I'd have very few complaints. But, since we can't, I remain completely uninterested in switching from desktop Linux (Gentoo + XFCE).
Regardless Windows 10 is a "steaming pile of spyware," it is still an OS. Without an OS, you can't run a software which is programmed to be run on an OS. It is black and white answer in this case.
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Re:Whooptie doo (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a steaming pile of spyware built on top of an arguably otherwise acceptable operating system.
Windows 10 is not first and foremost the spyware. We know this because if you are willing to volume license, you can get the OS without the spyware. Therefore, it's a halfway decent operating system which requires that you go to heroic lengths to avoid getting it with spyware. Still more than enough reason to avoid in general, IMO, but not quite the same thing.
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If I could get Windows 10 without the spying and ads I would use it (despite the IMO horrible UI) as it is I'll stay on Win 7 for as long as I can
Re:Whooptie doo (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. When you go to bing/google, the offered service is free. That's why Ads are OK.
Here, basically you pay for an OS that still gives you ads (compared to a free OS that doesn't ... really no question which one to install), but not only Ads, it also gets in the way when you try to install competing products. This is way nastier than having an ad in the corner of a web page because it means that Adware has ways to look at everything you are doing, vastly escaping the browser. This is a huge security issue.
So you could argue that it's just Microsoft pre-installing Adware on your system to pay for part of the OS (just like Lenovo/Toshiba/... have been always doing). Still, that's the main reason why I started re-advocating for everyone to install Linux -- Windows is just not safe for everyone to use.
Re:Whooptie doo (Score:4, Interesting)
AFAIK ChromeOS doesn't allow any other browsers at all!
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So you haven't gotten the latest 'Critical Security Patch' yet.
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Well, on a completely fresh Windows install you need to use SOMETHING to download the web browser you actually want. How does a command prompt GET command sound? Do YOU remember/know the exact file path to where the latest Chrome installer is located?
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Well, on a completely fresh Windows install you need to use SOMETHING to download the web browser you actually want. How does a command prompt GET command sound? Do YOU remember/know the exact file path to where the latest Chrome installer is located?
Flash Drive, CD Rom, DVD, Zip Disk, FTP from command line
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Now pretend you're the average computer user who went and bought a new computer after the old one in the family room finally died.
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That is Google.com doing that not Chrome.
That is an issue of a web page detecting your browser that you connect to its site and decided to show additional content.
What this seems to be doing, is intercepting particular OS CALLS AND ASKING YOU NOT TO RUN A COMPATIBLE PROGRAM
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Re:Whooptie doo (Score:4, Interesting)
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This is why Chrome is malware and not a web browser. It can install without admin privileges and, as you found out, goes around security measures.
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They even do this on my Surface 2 with WIndows RT which can't even run Chrome.
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And some other apps push hard for you to install Chrome when you install that app.
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Chrome does the same thing when you open IE/Edge and navigate to google.com.
Not the same thing as the "much nastier trick" referred to in TFA, which is about Windows trying to stop the installation of something. Your example sounds merely like an advert appearing on a web page.
Just what I want from my OS... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because f*ck you, that's why (Score:5, Interesting)
Every time I think Windows 10 can't get more insufferable, Microsoft reaches a new low. I guess they solved the malware problem - by baking the malware into the OS.
While, unfortunately, I have to use one Windows 10 system in my office, fortunately it's the only one, and anything else is either Windows 7 or Linux. None of my personal machines have the misfortune of using 10, and as long as they keep doing things like this, none will.
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Since I search for a new browser approximately every 3 years, or when I get a new workstation, this isn't much of an imposition. And I know how to click through. I do it on Facebook, Amazon, and a multitude of other services. Notice how YouTube, Pandora, Iheartradio, Google Play, etc. pester you to sign up for their paid services , sometimes even after you have? All annoyances, none fatal or truly any more devious than any other marketing and sales pitch. Feh. Grow thicker skin, you're gonna need it.
Windows 10 is malware. (Score:2, Insightful)
Windows 10 is malware.That fact has been known for a few years.
The remedy is simple : Just use Linux.
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Every time I think Windows 10 can't get more insufferable, Microsoft reaches a new low.
Ahhh but is it? Asking the user a question is a new low? And before you answer remember this "feature" is tied to the same setting that controls the Play Store's ability to just randomly install shit on your computer silently without asking and have it magically appear in your start menu.
Hmm... This feels familiar... (Score:5, Interesting)
Almost as if MS was slapped down for ... anti-competitive behavior under this same topic: browser integration into the OS.
Nah. I must be having deja-vu again...
Re:Hmm... This feels familiar... (Score:5, Interesting)
Almost as if MS was slapped down for ... anti-competitive behavior under this same topic: browser integration into the OS.
Nah. I must be having deja-vu again...
Exactly what I'm thinking.. Um, You M$ guys/gals, you may not be old enough to remember, but M$ got slapped pretty hard for anti-competitive behavior with IE in the past in multiple countries. I suggest you tread lightly here.
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Yes, but back then they had fewer lobbyists. They know better now. They have bought the politicians to make it legal!
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But, since companies are people too, doesn't Microsoft have the right to be forgotten!? That case never existed if nobody remembers!
The consent decree expired in 2011 (Score:5, Informative)
Anyhow, bottom line is that stopping Microsoft's behavior this time around will require a new DoJ investigation, which if history is any guide will take more than a decade. Given the history, hopefully it'll be done quickly enough or the judges will be willing to grant restraining orders to prevent Edge's market share rising up to 90% as IE did.
I still maintain that the best solution back in the 1990s would've been to break apart Microsoft into two companies - an OS company and an applications company. Then there would've been no reason for the OS (Windows) to favor Edge or Office (ever notice a trial starter version comes with Win 10?) or any other Microsoft application.
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I'm European and I for once think that would be a good use of my money
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Are you sure you want to discuss this on /.? (Score:4, Funny)
Commenting on reddit is so much faster and safer.
Very easily fixed (Score:5, Funny)
This is easy to fix once you understand the malware's vector. Almost all of Microsoft's malware (and it realy is true for this particular one) requires that you run Windows, or else the malware doesn't actually get executed. If you don't run Windows, none of these problems actually exist for you.
Cliche, but true.. (Score:5, Interesting)
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It wasn't until XP started including DRM as part of Media Player, and began degrading functions (like searching for files), and the whole Windows ME debacle that I finally understood why there wasn't a Windows Tech Edition. I was not their customer, and never would be.
I finally made it my New Year's Resolution in 2008 to cease using Windows and ended up switching to Gentoo Linux, and have been satisfied with that decision ever since. Sur
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To this day Linux (in particular desktop environments) feels brittler to me than Windows. Many times there's updates that won't go smoothly or for some reason the X server stops working and I have to troubleshoot it but there may arrive the day when I feel that's better than Windows.
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I see your mistake right here. (Score:2)
If you open Edge and search ..... using Bing
Is it true or Fake information? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is Edge really faster/better/cheaper? Or is that statement fake propaganda?
Re:Is it true or Fake information? (Score:5, Informative)
Is Edge really faster/better/cheaper? Or is that statement fake propaganda?
It's fake. Edge is faster at some things, but not at all things. It's provably not better. And they both cost $0 so it's not cheaper.
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Is Edge really faster/better/cheaper? Or is that statement fake propaganda?
The real question is, are claims like this legally binding.
Probably faster to go after Microsoft for false statements like this to curb bullshit featurecreep rather than try and go the anti-trust route (again)...
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yes and, if they use their dominance to make it more difficult to find the competition, via confusing statements or tedious steps, are they back into the antitrust bucket?
It's one thing to list Edge as the top choice (or even a link to a propaganda article touting the wonderfulness of Edge) in the search results. But injecting into the flow of a webpage feels like everything we don't want ISPs doing.
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It's really power efficient at hardware-offload video playback. Which has little to nothing to do with Edge. That's what I remember from their earlier ads anyway.
Just another example (Score:2)
Will there ever be an end to this trend?
Microsoft Disruption (Score:2)
Sort of OT But it really annoys me when I get pop-ups on Windows 10 asking me to rate their Calculator App. Seriously .. this happens.
Seriously, people! (Score:2)
How much shit are willing to put up with before you are willing to leave Windows? FFS!
Microsoft Edge is evil. (Score:2)
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Just use Internet Explorer (Score:2)
What the what? (Score:5, Funny)
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They're just adding new features for their most popular use case. That's where most companies add new features.
Not enough annoyance, go further (Score:2)
Or better, hide it somewhere unspecified, under another name and make the user play hide-n-seek with it.
That will surely make them love Edge more.
Poor Windows Users (Score:5, Funny)
Why is Microsoft starting to look desperate? (Score:2)
Stop nagging! (Score:2)
I really wish Google and Microsoft would stop one-upping each other on how obnoxiously they can nag users to try the other guys offerings. GO AWAY.
I will choose my browser. You don't get a say. Make the better browser and people will use it. Nag us, and we're likely to turn away from BOTH of them. People don't like to be nagged. Stop it. Offer it, and let it sit there, people will decide on their own.
At the end of the day, does this bull even matter? There's very little difference between the three
Wait... (Score:2)
"If you open Edge and search for "Chrome" or "Firefox" using Bing,"
Well that's ok then, pretty much nobody will see it.
What can you expect? (Score:2)
Ok, I admit it. (Score:2)
The new Microsoft isn't your father's Microsoft. They lied in court, illegally bundled and sought to undermine rival technology. The new Microsoft does all that and spams you too. Definitely not the same. The old Microsoft never stopped that low.
Relevant motivational quote (Score:2)
LibreOffice? (Score:2)
Does the same thing happen if you go to install other application that Microsoft has applications for such as LibreOffice?
Re:And then I'll chortle... (Score:4, Insightful)
The issue isn't What Microsoft did, but how they did it. Microsoft has the right to advertise their browser, however to intercept a on call to run a program and do a particular action because it is a competitors product is just bad form.
That would be like Linux putting an alert because you ran some non-gpl code in the OS. and you are getting a lecture on how Closed Source Software is so bad.
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That would be like Linux putting an alert because you ran some non-gpl code in the OS. and you are getting a lecture on how Closed Source Software is so bad.
$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted
12288
While it's not as blatant, Linux (actual Linux, the kernel) does alert users when using non-gpl code in the kernel. It also prints a message during boot, which can be seen via dmesg after boot.
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... and close the window. No reason for a freakout here.
It's just one more fucking straw on the anitconsumer camel's back. This is bad behaviour - admit it as such. They've made the OS more of a pain to use specifically to promote their own product, and who's to say it will stop here? How many popups do you want? Because if we *don't* make a fuss then you can be damn sure they will try other shit too and make everyone's lives just that bit worse.
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Re:Uninstall Windows 10, install Linux (Score:4, Informative)
Problem solved.
2. Give up games and a whole host of creativity / specialist software that isn't available for Linux. I love Linux, but no, problem not fucking solved.
You have a choice of only 2 operating systems for generic PCs, and that is hardly a healthy place to exercise your power as a consumer.
Valve's Steam (Score:2)
2. Give up games and
In recent news : Valve is integrating Wine capability into their Steam linux client [phoronix.com] in order to handle exactly *this* specific problem.
Over time, the problem will get lesser.
(Valve indeed needs it, if they want SteamOS to be anything more than a glorified remote streamcasting device and to be instead worthy of a good SteamBox)
(And until then, my extremely subjective suggestion would be to try picking up an out-door hobby and/or a significant other : both could be healthier way to spend leisure time :-P )
a whole host of creativity / specialist software that isn't available for Linux.
Dep
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Problem solved.
So how do I then bill my client for the Windows 10 based work that they want me to do? And no, there are no FOSS equivalents for the work I do and there never will be - so don't even think about trying that argument out on me.
Saying the solution is to simply uninstall MS software is naive and immature.
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Continually letting Microsoft violate your anus because you won't take a stand is naive immature and shows what a coward you are. You won't put yourself out to stand up against this sort of bullshit, you're no example for anyone to follow. So just keep swallowing what they're forcing down your throat and they'll never change a goddamned thing. Be sure to enjoy a world where you pay for a computer that you have zero control over and no say in how it's actually used because shit companies like Microsoft take more and more end-user rights away.
Ahh I see .. abuse only and no attempt at a rational argument - the epitome of immature.
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. Be sure to enjoy a world where you pay for a computer that you have zero control over and no say in how it's actually used because shit companies like Microsoft take more and more end-user rights away.
Guess your reading comprehension is garbage and/or you just conveniently skipped over that. Go fuck yourself, troll.
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. Be sure to enjoy a world where you pay for a computer that you have zero control over and no say in how it's actually used because shit companies like Microsoft take more and more end-user rights away.
Guess your reading comprehension is garbage and/or you just conveniently skipped over that. Go fuck yourself, troll.
Doubling up on the abuse I see .. so classy!
Re: YOU are the problem. (Score:3)
What kind of tortured, twisted logic is that?
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>> What kind of tortured, twisted logic is that?
it's called "Reality".
Choose the malware, die by the malware.
W10 seems to be the evolving kind of sneaky malware
Microsoft employees: Get a better job? (Score:2)
Voting with my dollars and walking away from MS (Score:2)
My family is still on Windows 7 until 2020. I have about 90% of my regularly played games and apps working on Linux either natively or with wine. Aiming to never have a Windows 10 computer in my house.