Alibaba's Jack Ma Backs Down From Promise To Trump To Bring 1 Million Jobs to the US (cnbc.com) 145
Jack Ma, chairman of Alibaba, has abandoned a promise to create one million new jobs in the US, in a sign of the threat that rising trade tensions with China pose to some of US President Donald Trump's key economic goals. From a report: "The promise was made on the premise of friendly US-China partnership and rational trade relations," Ma told Chinese news site Xinhua on Wednesday. "That premise no longer exists today, so our promise cannot be fulfilled." Ma, who recently announced that he will step down as Alibaba chairman within a year, added that the company would "not stop working hard to contribute to the healthy development of China-US trade." Ma's comments come on the heels of a new round of tariffs this week from both China and the U.S. that will affect billions of dollars worth of goods as the two countries have failed to reach a deal to resolve the Trump administration's concerns about China's trade practices.
Quick survey: (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well he said we'd have a great relationship with Russia. And while he didn't quite ban all immigration, he sure took a big shit on the legal ones.
Re:Quick survey: (Score:4, Funny)
Well he said we'd have a great relationship with Russia
.............conceded.
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Without the public option Obamacare was not a kept promise, the public option WAS the promise. You can argue we should have public healthcare, you can argue we shouldn't have public healthcare but either way Obamacare is a bastardized hybrid that has skyrocketed healthcare costs and gutted insurance coverage to the point of be
Re:Quick survey: (Score:4, Informative)
Anyone that knew Ma's history would have known he was blowing smoke up the skirt of anyone that would listen.
Ma was a prime example of the dirty business practices of the Chinese conglomerates.
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In the early days of the internet back when Yahoo was a real company they invested a bunch of Money in a new company in China Called Alibaba (CEO Ma), they bought 50% of the company with this investment. About the time Alibaba became a HUGE company China made a legal change that required that companies like Alibaba be entirely Chinese owned. (I woudln't be surprised if Ma instigated this change himself honestly).
Ma attempted to transfer the entire company to himself without providing anything to Yahoo in th
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https://www.quora.com/Did-Chin... [quora.com]
Got one of the details wrong, it wasn't Alibaba it was the subsidiary Alipay which today is a huge profit generating machine. Ma's attempted to steal the whole division early in it's existence and got caught.
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Neil Gorsuch appointed to supreme court.
...Presidents get to nominate SCJ's, so that's not a "promise" unless you're attempting to be clever re: Garland.
Peace with North Korea.
Wake me up when the N&S actually sign a peace treaty.
Moved the US embassy to Jerusalem as promised.
Again, function of the Executive branch. Do you want credit for keeping the National Parks open, too?
Draining the swamp, watch the action when the FISA documents get released.
Oh man, I want you to remember that you said this :)
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You don't understand. It is so much easier to drain the swamp if you bring your own alligators.
The USA [slowly] losing its clout? I think so... (Score:4, Insightful)
"That premise no longer exists today, so our promise cannot be fulfilled."
I have a hunch that the USA no longer has that clout it once had. Countries are now openly willing to defy the USA.
Some countries are already trying to kill the dollar [forbes.com]
let me hope our president will change course, though I have no doubt that some folks will hope that he doubles down.
Re:The USA [slowly] losing its clout? I think so.. (Score:5, Insightful)
"That premise no longer exists today, so our promise cannot be fulfilled."
I have a hunch that the USA no longer has that clout it once had. Countries are now openly willing to defy the USA.
Some countries are already trying to kill the dollar [forbes.com]
let me hope our president will change course, though I have no doubt that some folks will hope that he doubles down.
The US had plenty of clout, backed by a network of friends and allies that was unique in human history, and potentially still is mostly salvageable. That network of allies has always been the USA's strength because everybody knew that whatever the Americans got up to they'd always be better of with those occasionally crazy Yanks than the Soviets/Russians or the Chinese. The US' position would still be unassailable if Trump wasn't busy throwing away that clout and methodically disassembling the network of friends and allies. There is a whole slew of Asian countries now cozying up to China but not necessarily because they want to. With the Trump administration adopting a policy of insulting everybody and isolating the US, they have no choice but to cozy up to China. Most of them would much prefer the US, it usually offer a better deal and, (key point here) the USA is a distant hegemon, far across the ocean. You can't drive American tanks to Asia from the continental US and amphibious operations are very expensive and hard to do right. You can, however, easily drive Chinese tanks from bases in China to most of these Asian countries and they are only too keenly aware of it. Most of them have watched China claim the south China sea to the extent that you can stand on a beach at the water's edge in some of the countries in the region and send a golden arc of piss into what China regards as its sacred territorial waters.
Re:The USA [slowly] losing its clout? I think so.. (Score:4, Insightful)
You have very rosy colored glasses.
Very rosy colored glasses. what you need to see Trump as a stable genius, friend of the common man, master negotiator, keen political mind and greatest American of all time. I think I made it quite clear that I consider him a bumbling idiot, and that's me putting it kindly.
Re:The USA [slowly] losing its clout? I think so.. (Score:5, Insightful)
A great example of this is what happened with TPP. When the US pulled out the other countries decided to continue on their own with CPTPP, basically the same thing but without the US. They dropped all the stuff that the US wanted by they didn't of course.
So now they have this huge trade deal with 11 countries and the US is trying to do individual deals with each of them. Of course they don't want to do individual deals, the whole point of doing a collective one was that no single country could make demands without broader agreement. And of course, that's why Trump didn't like it, he thought he could do better individual deals and force countries to agree to them.
What has actually happened is that the CPTPP signatories are just stalling with the US, waiting for Trump to go away. Japan doesn't want to lower automotive standards to allow more US cars to be sold there, and doesn't want to lower food standards to allow US meat products to be sold (like the EU they don't allow chlorine washing for example).
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The really sad thing is that you did this to yourselves and you have been doing it for at least the last 15-20 years.
You've been running the US in the same as you've been running your corporations - only thinking about the next quarter and doing very little investment for the longer term.
Unfortunately, what is happening to the US now is also what happens to corporations run in this way - you rot from within while running on inertia for a time (which maintains the illusion that everything is running ok - at
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Re:The USA [slowly] losing its clout? I think so.. (Score:4, Informative)
For hundreds of year the Gold Standard (and by default the British Pound) were the standard for international Trade, simply because the Pound was backed by the gold reserves.
There was no US dollar from the Federal Reserve until 1913.
During WWII, the USA demanded payment from the UK etc in Gold, so by default the US ended up with the majority of Gold Reserves. It was in the 1950's when world trade was again taking off that the US$ became the standard (because of the gold they had). At this stage the USA also accounted for over 60% of the entire worlds GDP.
Today the USA accounts for about 19% of the worlds GDP (and falling), not because the USA failed, but because the rest of the world succeeded , it had rebuilt from WWII (something the US did not have to do). The USA is only 4% of the worlds population, so all other things being equal the USA could fall to 4% of the worlds GDP.
The rest of the world is starting to see the USA as a bully and wants the world to shift away from the USA and it politics dominating their countries and economies.
The Euro is a good example of this, though more needs to be done to equalise and stabilise the individual countries within the federation.
It is likely that China (if not already) will become the worlds biggest economy shortly, Trump is only accelerating this as other countries also believe the need to reduce dependance on the USA and are actively seeking trade agreements with each other, and in particular the Asian economies (which account for over 60% of the worlds population).
Trump said "Trade wards are easy to win", this also means "Trade wars are easy to loose" , Trump lacks any real understanding of world economics, international trade, all indications are people who have to deal with him believe he is an idiot. He is souring international relationships on an almost daily basis. This means he is far more likely to loose the war than win it. Shouting " USA USA USA" will not change this, and the cracks and failures in Welfare, Education, Health, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, democracy, , etc etc are growing wider in the USA (go search for USA world rankings on these measures).
The USA leads the worlds spending on the military , and seems to frequently use it, not so much to protect US citizens but to protect US corporate interests (Oil, etc). Perception is everything, and the worlds perception of the USA is falling .
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China's been trying to kill the dollar for almost a decade now. It hasn't been working, because no matter how strained US/EU or US/OPEC relations get, everyone knows the US doesn't use the dollar's bully power and China would if the yuan replaced it.
And Russia... isn't a big economic player.
Gosh! (Score:1)
Align yourself with Big Giant Orange Head and watch everything go off the rails. Who could have seen it coming?
So much winning.
Re:Gosh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Who could have seen it coming?
Only 65,853,514 of us, unfortunately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016 [wikipedia.org]
wow! (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow, the promise of 1 million jobs selling cheap consumer products. Now that's a recipe for a healthy economy.
Makes no sense (Score:3)
Making more things here makes *more* sense with the tariffs in place than without, since companies would not be paying tariffs on things built here... so there's something else at work.
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None of what you said appeared to be a problem (or was any less of a problem) when they made the initial promise.
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Nowhere in the initial promise was it suggested that they would move jobs from China to the USA, only that they would bring jobs to the USA. The original plan would entail *expanding* capacity, not simply trying to move it to somewhere that can't do the job anywhere nearly as efficiently... even if they did move to the USA, productivity would be so abysmally low on account of lack of infrastructure that prices would go through the roof.
It's cheaper, no matter how you slice it, to just make Americans pa
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Problem is the supply chain. To build stuff in the US you need a supply of parts from China, because the US doesn't build everything or doesn't build it at the right price.
But now there are tariffs on those supplies. Not the end of the world for products sold in the US market, although the paperwork is a hidden cost and there is the uncertainty factor about what tariffs might appear in the future. They are a killer for anything exported from the US though, especially with other trade deals under threat with
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Making more things here makes *more* sense with the tariffs in place than without
No it does not because you have forgotten that the tariffs are bi-directional. When the US imposes tariffs on goods the countries affected impose tariffs on US goods. If the rest of the world outside the US continues to remove trade barriers then because the non-US combined economy is far larger than the US one you will end up being far better off making your things outside the US than inside because you can then sell them without tariffs to far more people.
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Making more things here makes *more* sense with the tariffs in place than without, since companies would not be paying tariffs on things built here... so there's something else at work.
Tarrifs are likely to increase the cost of living unless making things locally is very cheap, and if it was, they'd already be made there. Increasing the cost of living may be OK, if wages keep pace, assuming receipts from locally sourced goods are recycled quickly. There are a whole series of feedbacks, and my most was getting very long, so I've cut it down to just the above.
Before Trump (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Before Trump (Score:5, Funny)
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Jarwulf: I have so much confirmation bias that I only see what I want to see about Slashdot and somehow attribute my bias to some pro / anti trump pro / anti China agenda.
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Don't know about others but I personally agree steps should be taken against China's unfair trade practices. However, whatever steps taken should be done with actual planning by competent people that understands the complexities. Trump's administration clearly hire the dumbest and most unqualified grifters. They couldn't be bothered to even get competent grifters that understand trade agreement doesn't mean others have to agree to whatever you say. If trump was just screwing with China I don't think people
Re:Before Trump (Score:5, Informative)
Do something about it yes, but not start a trade war with the entire world at the same time.
In order to win a trade war with China, USA need allies to help them put presure on China. Instead he said fuck you, to all the countries which would have been natural allies in such a trade war.
Re:Before Trump (Score:4, Interesting)
As a person who prefers to spend a little more to buy solidly built items that last, I don't really see any harm it would have if cheap imported crap was more expensive than it is now.
Generally people who disfavor the trade scenario with China want less trade, because they do not see any chance of getting China to offer reciprocal rules for foreign businesses. Without that, without China allowing US businesses to operate in China with the freedom that Chinese businesses have to operate in the US, then reducing trade is the whole goal.
In that sense it is very "winable." Many of the European conflicts have already been resolved.
What I find funny is that a lot of people think it is only Trump supporters who want decreased trade with China, but I've been hearing the same thing from the left for 30 years about how "Free Trade" will ruin our economy for the little guy, and destroy the environment too. And on the right, the little guy has at least the same economic concerns. Neither party actually votes to support American workers or small business in trade negotiations, so it shouldn't really be that surprising that the little guy supports an anti-trade policy. Meaning, we want Trump to do a bad job dealing with trade with China! LOL
Not every bad job pushes things in the wrong direction, once in awhile you slip on a banana peel and get saved from getting run over by car! Actually, in other cases he wanted to so something evil, but wasn't allowed by the courts merely because he did a bad job at implementing it. So, maybe even 35% of the screw-ups are useful.
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As a person who prefers to spend a little more to buy solidly built items that last, I don't really see any harm it would have if cheap imported crap was more expensive than it is now.
Your "solidly built items" are most likely also mostly made in China.
China produces a lot of crap, but they are absolutely able to produce quality stuff, too. They just don't have the ability to sell quality products (mostly due to the total lack of known brands). And for the lack of a known brand name (which in turn gives a measure of quality - could be low, could be high, at least you have an idea of what quality level you can expect) the only thing they have left to compete on is price, and that in turn
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Right, tariffs don't make friends, they just reduce the trade by increasing overhead.
Re:Before Trump (Score:4, Insightful)
The US (and the west) has spent decades integrating cheap Chinese goods into its economy. Trying to unwind that all at once is just a bad idea, even if it's necessary.
Most of the criticism is being leveled at HOW it is being done, not that it needs doing. How it is being done is like you deciding you don't want to rely on China's dinghy that you're sitting in but instead of taking the oars and moving the dinghy to shore in a controlled fashion before getting out of it, you just take a chainsaw and cut it in half when you're 2 miles offshore.
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I can buy chainsaws made in the USA, chainsaws made in Europe, chainsaws made in Canada, chainsaws made in China.
China competes on cheap products, but that isn't the same being integrated into the economy in a way that makes them important. The whole reason that the current trade policy is disruptive is because of the time it takes to arrange changes to industrial supply chains, not because China is important to manufacturing.
Things like automobile production that have a lot of parts will suffer supply hicc
Re:Before Trump (Score:4, Informative)
Things like automobile production that have a lot of parts will suffer supply hiccups, but OTOH they're not really doing JIT manufacturing, most cars sit around on lots before even being transferred to the dealers, and the disruptions aren't as bad as they might sound on the tee-vee. The vast majority of products do not have that many parts. And none of it is exclusive to China. None of it.
Car companies are deciding now [cnbc.com] what models they will release in 2022. They have to decide now, where to build the plants, where to get the supplies etc. not knowing which countries will have tariffs at what levels on which parts is extremely disruptive and costly.
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You wave your hands about 2022, is that the year of the losses? Or do you have more apples and oranges in your analysis than data?
If some of the plastic bits change cost, that doesn't matter very much in 2022, it affects everybody so it is not a meaningful disruption. Nobody will be going without a new car because of it.
Modern manufacturing supply chains are supposed to be more flexible than historical ones, if that isn't true for an industry maybe they're doing it wrong and this experience will improve the
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The escalating trade spat between the United States and China has impacted the autos sector with car-makers finding it increasingly tough to plan longer-term projects, a Daimler board member told CNBC on Wednesday.
"The steel and aluminium prices skyrocketed in the United States, making our tax more expensive there," Martin Daum said, adding that the big concern is planning future projects.
"These days, we talk about the products we are going to launch in 2022, 2023. We talk to our suppliers who have to invest heavily and they need stability to make those investment decisions."
You wave you hands around talking about plastic bits. Who should we listen to...
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Are you drunk?
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It is somewhat telling that that is your first response to something you don't understand. I guess you spend a lot of times hanging out in bars?
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Sithl is a German company, and the chainsaws they sell in the USA are made in Virginia.
https://www.stihlusa.com/stihl... [stihlusa.com]
Most of the Husqvarnas sold in the US are made in the US, but the more expensive ones are made in Sweden.
I personally prefer Stihl if I have to use a saw, but I can't imagine a Ryobi, Tanaka, or Hitachi not being a reasonable tool.
It's already too late (Score:3)
Thing is this is why Hilary didn't think it was much of an issue in the campaign. She's trapped in an iron bubble and she thought people would be reasonable about manufacturing jobs and just accept t
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Slashdot economics experts: China has been bullying other countries economically for decades and unfairly favoring its own companies. We have to do something about it before its too late. The longer we wait the more painful it will be. After Trump ........
Slashdot economics experts: WAAA Trump did something China didn't like and they gave me a booboo. Waaa we must never offend china to keep cheap chinese goods forever!
This is cowardice and very un-American.
We promote freedom, democracy, prosperity and pursuit of happiness.
We're not goons who think in terms of having to do something about that guy.
Don't let fear turn you into a coward.
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Slashdot economics experts: China has been bullying other countries economically for decades and unfairly favoring its own companies. We have to do something about it before its too late. The longer we wait the more painful it will be.
After Trump ........
Slashdot economics experts: WAAA Trump did something China didn't like and they gave me a booboo. Waaa we must never offend china to keep cheap chinese goods forever!
China has also been giving other countries cheap good for decades, it wasn't necessarily a bad thing for those countries. It's made the US and other countries very rich in terms of material goods and freed up labour to do more productive things. It's not all great of course, not all of those jobs could be replaced and at some point China starts taking jobs you'd really prefer to keep and exerting influence in ways you don't like.
But lets accept the premise that you do need to start pushing back against Chin
math problem (Score:1)
A real math problem here
Promises - help the people (Score:2)
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Crystal meth is no longer trendy among teenagers/20-year-olds. It's an old person drug. Heroin is the new choice.
Good lord, I wish I was joking.
I should point out this is based on statistics of people arrested, not personal experience
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It's more likely our culture having doctors (until recently?) proscribing tons of opiods, then people getting addicted, then the legal supply getting cut off. Then they turn to heroin because at least then they can get it.
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I guess my point was that there aren't "these people" in this case. Overprescription crosses race/wealth/education lines.
I see what he did there (Score:1)
He never had any chance of fulfilling that promise, so why not make a cheap jab at Trump.
( Wal-Mart employs around 1.4-1.5 million. )
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One country, how many systems? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Yet another nail in Hong Kong's independence coffin.
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Hong Kong isn't independent now, wtf are you even talking about?
They got 10 years of no new rules to arrange an orderly handover, any promises beyond that were already broken and the policies retracted long ago.
You should seek access to news sources.
Convenient Out (Score:2)
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Inexpensive and High quality products (Score:1)
Countries should amend their Constitutions accordingly;
https://archive.st/archive/201... [archive.st]
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Yeah, the know-it-alls are really the problem, eh?
You settled for a GED thinking you could work down at the steel mill for 30 years like your dad did.
But it's easier to blame other people than fess up to your own short sightedness.
And ordinary people didn't elect Trump, he lost the popular vote. I suspect you actually knew that despite your act to sort of reverse virtual signal, trying to play the ordinary working stiff.
You lot are real big on the Personal Responsibility thing, as long as it's not you perso
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High,
"the ordinary working stiff." here.
People like you and the previous AC if not you, are the reason trump got elected.
Also, I have not only gotten a larger yearly salary at the company I work for, I now get bonus's and have a retirement plan that my company pays into for me.
I cant say hes done such a shit job so far.
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I'm non union, I don't worry about layoffs. I think its happened once in my entire career.
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I love when slashdork mods down the real niggas.
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