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Youtube EU

YouTube CEO Says EU's Proposed Copyright Regulation Financially Impossible (googleblog.com) 142

YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki has again hit out at proposed new European Union copyright rules which she claims is impossible for a platform like YouTube to comply with, and if done so, could harm the creative industries. Wojcicki said the European Parliament's vote in favor of an overhaul to copyright law two months ago is "unrealistic" because owners often disagree on who owns the rights to online material. In a blog post, she wrote: Take the global music hit "Despacito." This video contains multiple copyrights, ranging from sound recording to publishing rights. Although YouTube has agreements with multiple entities to license and pay for the video, some of the rights holders remain unknown. That uncertainty means we might have to block videos like this to avoid liability under article 13. Multiply that risk with the scale of YouTube, where more than 400 hours of video are uploaded every minute, and the potential liabilities could be so large that no company could take on such a financial risk.

The consequences of article 13 go beyond financial losses. EU residents are at risk of being cut off from videos that, in just the last month, they viewed more than 90bn times. Those videos come from around the world, including more than 35m EU channels, and they include language classes and science tutorials as well as music videos. We welcome the chance to work with policymakers and the industry to develop a solution within article 13 that protects rights holders while also allowing the creative economy to thrive. This could include more comprehensive licensing agreements, collaboration with rights holders to identify who owns what, and smart rights management technology, similar to Content ID.

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YouTube CEO Says EU's Proposed Copyright Regulation Financially Impossible

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  • That's fine (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:48PM (#57632674)

    YouTube can just block all of the EU and watch the hilarity.

    • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:52PM (#57632694)

      It's as if millions of cats cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

    • One better (Score:4, Funny)

      by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:53PM (#57632700)

      Block Youtube, where instead it takes you to a page where you can write an angry letter to the people responsible for YouTube being blocked.

      It would be really interesting to see what effect blocking YouTube had on a modern society. Riots? Mass adoption of VPN? Meh?

    • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#57632714)

      YouTube can just block all of the EU and watch the hilarity.

      I have a better idea.

      Create servers for EU IP ranges.

      Fully license and redirect every video link to a certain Rick Astley video with an announcement to contact the EU if they have any problems with copyright protection.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Add a video clip before all content allowed in the EU with a spoken language message that the video is approved for viewing in the EU.
        In all EU languages with text before the video begins.
        Place that before all content now allowed to be played in the EU.
        With the correct legal framework quoted in full in each EU member nation language.
        Let every EU nation enjoy its full online EU legal compliance while the rest of the free world enjoys content.
        So EU viewers know the results they have been allowed to s
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It's funny that so many people think YouTube committing suicide is the best solution here.

          Back in the real world if they really think it's that bad they will just go to court to argue it like adults, or find some way of passing the cost on.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#57632718)

      Or youtube can stop stealing everyone's music, streaming it for free, and making all of the copyright infringement profit for themselves.

      For some reason youtube is the only company that can outright steal everyone's stuff, and sell it all for their own profit.

      If I did that at the swap meet with burned CD's I'd go to jail.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Did you even read the summary? Even for videos licensed from the music publishers themselves YouTube is at risk of copyright suits from unknown rights holders.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        You are aware that YouTube pays enormous royalty payments to the recording industry, right? Enormous to the tune of where YouTube operates at a loss. A constant claim is that their filters are too strict and regularly improperly flag content as infringing even when it isn't, and when something is flagged, the registered owner decides if it should be blocked or not. Almost everything on YouTube is there with the blessing of their owners using the monatization scheme the owners request.

        So basically, everyt

        • Almost everything on YouTube is there with the blessing of their owners using the monatization scheme the owners request.

          Um, not even close. You can find most TV shows as well as most movies. When you start typing a movie name, youtube even helpfully suggests appending the words "full movie" onto the end and in most cases you can easily find the full movie of most movie on youtube.

          Youtube is a cesspool. Google is one of the leaders in AI but has made almost no attempt to clean up, categorize, or filter the stuff on Youtube.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Glarimore ( 1795666 )
            Considering I just went to Youtube and tried searching for "Black Panther Full Movie", "Lego Movie Full Movie", and "It Follows Full Movie", but could not find copies of any of these movies, I think it is safe to say that you are either ill-informed or a liar, or these movies you're talking about are sufficiently buried that the small proportion of people who access them shouldn't be a concern.

            And to the point in the article, Youtube can't reasonably be expected to police everything someone uploads. They
      • by tepples ( 727027 )

        Or youtube can stop stealing everyone's music

        Let's say I write and record a song and use it as background music for a video that I upload. But if my song is too similar to an existing song, then I unwittingly "stole" someone else's music. What steps can a composer take to stop this "theft" from happening before the upload?

      • Utube doesn't steal stuff, they set up a bulletin board where people can post messages and posters for free. Blaming them for not being able to police everything for criminal content is unreasonable. If bank robbers use the phone system to plan their crimes you don't arrest the phone company.
      • Mostly because nobody involved gives a shit about copyright crap. I want to listen to music, YouTube wants to provide it. How they do it, why the fuck would I care?

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The rights holders are quite happy to have their music on YouTube, as long as they get the ad revenue.

        The problem at the moment is that a lot of the music on there was uploaded by other people, and they are raking in the profits. It happens with new music and also new movie trailers a lot. The official channel releases it, others copy and re-post the video and often the top search result or trending vid is the copy.

    • by Z80a ( 971949 )

      I don't know it can is the operative word here.
      It's probably more of a must.

    • YouTube can just block all of the EU and watch the hilarity.

      As someone who wants to watch Google fail I say DO IT! Go on, DO IT.

      The funny thing about trying to block a good portion of the wealthy west is that shareholders don't think too highly of the move. Even funnier if you're an advertisement company since your actual source of revenue doesn't think highly of it either.

  • Only to present approved EU content.
    Anything not approved will be a copyright or content problem.
    Welcome to EU censorship.
    No freedom of speech. No freedom to publish. No freedom to comment on content.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 )

      Well just because the US and the UK decided to be really stupid, it doesn't mean that the EU is a bastion of all good intentions. The EU for Decades have been making laws that more or less target American Companies.

  • Tough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#57632750) Homepage
    No-one above the law. Look at this example: "Although YouTube has agreements with multiple entities to license and pay for the video, some of the rights holders remain unknown. ".

    Yeah, that's the same with abandonware. Or even in hobbyist music I wrote which I can't release for exactly this reason. Same rules for everyone. Either campaign to remove those rules for everyone, or suck it up and comply. One or the other.
    • Re:Tough (Score:5, Informative)

      by sl3xd ( 111641 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:07PM (#57632806) Journal

      It doesn't sound like they are looking for an exemption.

      It's quite clear that YouTube is saying the proposed rules don't make sense, and shouldn't be implemented for anyone.

      • by mccalli ( 323026 )
        Rules exist today though - look at my "can't publish" example, that's real and something I tried to do in all good faith. Whereas they're arguing they already have published something like that and shouldn't be held accountable for it.
        • by jopsen ( 885607 )
          Why can't you publish your music?
          • Re:Tough (Score:5, Interesting)

            by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:00PM (#57633204) Homepage
            Thanks for the question. It's because I can't identify all the rights holders, so cannot publish due to the risk of being sued for copyright later. I've tried - I contacted the BBC (it's a BBC programme from 1982), I contacted Getty who now administer it...everyone. They told me who might have a right and confirmed that others had rights than those I had already identified. But they couldn't tell me who, only that it would be breach of copyright to publish without identifying.

            Oh, and Getty also wanted to charge me £500 to use it, after first insisting they would only deal with corporations anyway and not individuals like me. That would be £500 for one set of rights - the BBC. They then told me I would need to individually contact the presenter who read the script, and the scriptwriter. They also couldn't identify the scriptwriter.

            Result? Impossible to publish. Financially a non-starter but let's assume for a moment it wasn't, and that I had some sure-fire hit that easily justified paying three sets of people at minimum £500 each after individually tracking down all contact details...still I couldn't publish, because I wouldn't know where the rights for the script were held. I assumed the BBC. Apparently not.
            • by mccalli ( 323026 )
              I should add - this is all over some sampled speech that I use throughout the piece. Too long to be fair use, and it's the centre point of the music anyway.
              • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:29PM (#57633786) Journal

                > Too long to be fair use, and it's the centre point of the music anyway.

                You're thinking of one type fair use. If you're writing a research paper, you can use a short section from another research paper. "A short section" is only ONE of several types of fair use though.

                Two other fair use elements are "transformative" and, most importantly, market for the original work. If you made a rave song, using sampled audio from a newscast, that's probably okay because it's completely transformative. You can use the ENTIRE original work and it can still be fair use. See Kelly vs Arriba and other cases.

                Another element, probably the most important, is the effect of your use on the market value of the original work. Will people buy your song INSTEAD OF buying the TV show? If not, that has two effects:
                It makes it probably fair use.
                It means actual damages* would be $0 anyway, so it doesn't *matter* if it's infringing.

                If your song parodies or comments on the show, if it says something about contemporary culture as exemplified by the show, that may be fair use.

                There are many factors to consider for fair use. If the show was a stand-up comedy skit and you used most of it to make a comedy song, that would probably infringe. I'd bet that you're aong is transformative enough that it doesn't compete with the prior work or damage its market value, though.

                * Statutory damages are a thing. I won't go into that here.

      • They are saying that they should only respect the copyrights of large corporations not that of small individuals. The thing is the EU policy is really highlighting how stupid the existing copyright laws are and hopefully they will force a rewrite of copyright to something more sensible.
        • by sl3xd ( 111641 )

          So you’re saying that instead of fixing something that’s broken, the EU is thoughtfully and deliberately enacting laws that are even dumber?

          That makes no sense.

    • by athmanb ( 100367 )

      It's already like this for abandonware. The DMCA requires that you own the copyright of something you send a takedown for. So if nobody that owns the copyright for whatever you're sharing cares, nobody will send your ISP a nastygram.

      And if someone does care enough to send a letter, then it's not abandoned, is it.

  • I congratulate the MIT for reinventing the bicycle... well, magnetic tunnel junction. Beg for grants and investor money more

  • by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:22PM (#57632892)

    The EU is in the process of strangling its own economy with rules that the rest of the world would go broke trying to comply with. Enjoy your GMO-free, music-free, Internet-free existence. We will gladly honor your right to be forgotten.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:03PM (#57633220)

      We will gladly honor your right to be forgotten.

      Yes you will. And you will bend over backwards to keep content coming our way while doing so. Just like companies bend over backwards to appease Chinese censors. Some markets are too big to ignore, and as often is with empty threats, those markets are usually worth far more than the cost of compliance despite the ensuing bitching and moaning.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Not at all. Instead it's rediscovering the problem that USSR discovered after WW2. If you want to have a union of states that have wildly different cultural norms and standards, you must have a tyrannical universal rule set and complete lock down on information about the system and how it works.

      This is a part of the slowly creeping information lock down. Other parts range from hate speech and blasphemy legislation being interpreted increasingly widely to removal of obstacles from consolidation of ownership

    • When I look at most music, movies, it is mostly coming from corporations which anyway will comply and be able to upload stuff in youtube : What IP is not coming from the US, is coming from the big corp, even the "pew die pie" of Europe are incorporated and will only have that as a nuisance cost. There is nigh an indy scene in EU which really participate that much in the economy globally. In other word, the ONLY people it may stops, are the average folk uploading a video they made themselves - economic value
  • Lies (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:31PM (#57632954)

    YouTube (Alphabet/Google, actually; stop kidding yourselves) — and the rest of the Valley monsters — have demonstrated that they are entirely capable of precisely moderating the content they host. They do so every day as their finely honed wrongthink detectors isolate every case of "offensive" content. So the argument that this EU requirement is some insurmountable burden is farcical. Unlike the deplorables they enthusiastically hunt down 24/7 with no complaint whatsoever about the financial feasibility, they are simply uninterested in enforcing EU copyright laws.

    Well too fucking bad. You people made yourselves the universal go-to moderators in your crusade to safe space the Internet. Content owners won't let you pretend you're not capable of applying the same facilities in service of protecting their IP.

    And this aggressive push for extreme IP polices coming from the EU should be no surprise to anyone. Consolidating power in Brussels could only amplify this rent seeking behavior. People heard the warnings of exactly this and pretended otherwise because damn all knuckle-draggers that don't want a giant all-caring all-providing European super government.

    Well, here you go motherfuckers. Enjoy.

  • that might be about right for the amount of tax that it pays. Interesting how that might happen!

  • The game may have the music rights must people making the let's plays may have to do there own licensing for it.

    Just like how licensing for bars works.

  • This video contains multiple copyrights, ranging from sound recording to publishing rights

    So all it boils down to is that companies will have to work a bit harder to earn their billions.

  • The crazy EU leftists going after the power of the crazy US leftists. *Gets Popcorn*
    • by mcvos ( 645701 )

      It's not EU leftists who did this; many Greens oppose it, whereas most right-wing parties supported it.

      I'm unable to find a complete breakdown of who supported it and who didn't though. Support for this was appallingly broad.

      • The EU IS LEFT.
        • by mcvos ( 645701 )

          Only compared to the extreme right that's currently ruling the US. On its own, the EU is moderately right-wing due to its insistence on austerity, and moderately left-wing due to its insistence on human/civil rights. How you see the regulated free market with a very strong focus on competition, could go either way.

  • by mr_jrt ( 676485 ) on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:24PM (#57633744) Homepage

    ...if copyrights only lasted a sane amount of time, say, 10 years or so, with a couple of optional 10 year extensions. Then the long tail of potential rights holders in a given work would dramatically reduce, making systems such as this much more feasible to manage.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Copyright and patents are still useful, but the timeframe is just purely rent-seeking. How about $10 dollars to register either for 2 years, double the previous for each 1 year extension. $10, $20, $40, $80, etc. The first few years will be cheap and a common citizen could get a foothold. Someone successful could even continue the monopoly for a few extra years. After a while, even a company such as Apple with unruly amounts of capital would give up and allow it to be public domain.

        I agree for the tradema
  • This will lead to a database of copyrighted works that can be automatically attributed based on a scan of newly uploaded content.

    If there is no match to existing works, the new content becomes part of the copyright database with the uploader as the defacto copyright holder, transferable if needed.

    If a copyright owner disputes ownership of content they will need to upload their own content to potentially replace whatever was flagged as the original, which will propagate the change down to all related work,

    • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

      Yeah, that's not how copyright works. The copyright exists the moment the work is created, not when it's uploaded to some database. In your example, how would the original owner prove they were the one who created it?

      Copyright also covers works that are substantially different from the original. Your database would have a lot of trouble with photos, remixes or other imperfect reproductions of the original work. If someone draws an unauthorized Mickey Mouse comic, how are you going to find a match against th

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Consider the complexity illustrated in this article. This is just part of what I call the coming "complexity collapse." It is inevitable as governments, businesses, and technology continue to add more and more rules, regulations, laws, procedures, devices, patches, processes, obligations, etc.

In the long run, every program becomes rococco, and then rubble. -- Alan Perlis

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