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Netflix's Biggest Competition Isn't Sleep -- It's YouTube (venturebeat.com) 115

Netflix CEO Reed Hastings loves to identify sleep as the biggest competition of its service. "Sometimes employees at Netflix think, 'Oh my god, we're competing with FX, HBO, or Amazon, but think about it. If you didn't watch Netflix last night: What did you do? There's such a broad range of things that you did to relax and unwind, hang out, and connect -- and we compete with all of that," he once said. "You get a show or a movie you're really dying to watch, and you end up staying up late at night, so we actually compete with sleep," he added. Turns out, Hastings does not need to look that far for competition.

From a report: Despite Netflix and Amazon investing billions of dollars in producing original content, they are struggling to make inroads in emerging markets. YouTube, on the other hand, is growing rapidly, becoming a daily habit for even new internet users. In India, for instance, YouTube reaches 245 million unique users each month, or 85 percent of all internet users in the country, the company told VentureBeat. About 60 percent of all YouTube traffic in India comes from outside of its six major cities. [Globally, YouTube has 1.9 billion monthly active users.]

As consumption on YouTube grows, creators are also finding loyal audiences. In India alone, YouTube now has more than 600 channels with more than 1 million subscribers, up from 20 channels in 2016. Record label T-Series, which is fighting with PewDiePie for the title of most-subscribed YouTube channel, took 10 years to get to its first 10 million subscribers. In the last two years, it has grown to 60 million subscribers. Globally, YouTube says the number of channels with more than 1 million subscribers has grown by 75 percent this year.

Globally, YouTube told VentureBeat that 75 percent of the platform's watch time occurs on a mobile device. The average watch time for a mobile user is 60 minutes per day. Or in other words, this is the time a user could have spent watching Netflix. According to eMarketer's estimates, an average user would spend about 86 minutes per day watching digital videos on streaming services this year.

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Netflix's Biggest Competition Isn't Sleep -- It's YouTube

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  • It turns out that lazily producing Cop Drama #3485 and Medical Drama #4859 works for 5% of people, but there are others who are looking for something else.
    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      While I think this is a bit beside the point of youtube v. netflix, I will say their losses of non-netflix content has been putting a damper on my interest in their selection. The netflix original content has improved in variety thankfully, but still can't easily compete with the plethora of non-netflix content.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Drama, violence, sex, propaganda, competition...

      I can't stand TV but I do sympathize with any reasons why people watch it. Boredom and having nothing better to do, two certain reasons. Not really good long-term bases for decisions but those are factors for people.

      I want to learn shit. Because I want to do shit.

      85 year-old John Doe who worked for USPS his whole life who's now building a geothermal greenhouse growing CITRUS in NEBRASKA isn't on Netflix, but he's the motherfucker I want to listen to.

      My girlbab

      • I saw that geothermal citrus grower video too. Much better content than anything on TV.
      • There is nothing wrong witch scripted shows. They actually have a lot of value. Star Trek for example, was used to express the problems of society of its time, while being unique enough to not seem threatening. Issue like the cold war and its problems were expressed without latching onto our current prejudice. Or often take such ideas and express them to the extreme to show flaws in the ideas.

        This is different from propaganda, which tells you how to think, vs enlightenment gives you more factors to think

        • by Anonymous Coward

          I'm not bashing scripted shows. I'm saying that scripted shows do not *necessarily* reflect reality in any valuable way outside of providing entertainment. To come out with the Star Trek argument is a good argument to come out with against a whole lot of shit. I'm with you, that is valuable.

          But petty scripted dramatic modern soap opera type crap that just keeps people in emotional holes and past-fixated, or programs meant to, well, program people, with the intent of keeping people thinking certain ways abou

    • but there are others who are looking for something else

      And on YouTube they find... PewDiePie and a million Fail videos (basically Americas Funniest Home Videos stretching out til the end of time).

      I'm pretty sure that is not what the remaining 95%, according to your statistics, seek...

      You figures also do not explain why Netflix subscriber counts keep going up [statista.com]. Seems like maybe you have that percentage reversed.

      • PewPewDie is about 0.00001% of total views on Youtube. Youtube has 1.8 billion unique users per month. Netflix has about 137 million. Total fail on your part, but I am not suprised.
        • PewPewDie is about 0.00001% of total views on Youtube.

          Same thing for generic cop/medical dramas on Netflix (I've never watched one and watch Netflix all the time), so thanks for undermining your original point there chief.

          Maybe it turns out the way the world works for most people is not how you are using it, or even how you describe it...

          • I wasn't talking about Netflix, but what the employees (and most people like you) think are Netflix competitors. Most of the viewing public doesn't want to watch "CSI #232" or another another medical drama but that is what gets produced. But even Netflix original programming can't compete with Youtube, no matter how hard they try. It turns out that people want to watch non-Hollywood produced stuff too.
            • I wasn't talking about Netflix, but what the employees (and most people like you) think are Netflix competitors

              HBO and Amazon suddenly have a lot of generic cop/medical dramas?

      • Anyone watching the likes of PewDiePie is a drooling zombie who probably also wastes a lot of time on Facebook. The rest of us are enriching ourselves with how-to videos, learning new skills, scouring the site for videos where we can discover fascinating things about our favorite subjects.

        My only regret is that YouTube is way too much power concentrated in one space.
      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Because, cough, cough, Google lies, pretty routinely, as do most tech companies, truth considered entirely an expensive option. I would not believe any numbers coming out of Youtube, just of partial interest. Shoving content on people on the Youtube homepage, making it seem more or less popular by cooking the numbers. I would trust Netflix subcriber numbers more because they would go to jail if they cooked those numbers to inflate share value. So can the Alphabet liars go to jail for lying about Youtube vie

    • A successful YouTube Chanel, would be an abysmal failure on network television, just on numbers alone.
      But it is cheap to produce on YouTube so these bad numbers are still making you a big channel, because a quality production is costing thousands of dollars per episode vs millions for broadcast.

      Sue YouTube production quality is often poor compared to broadcast. But because of the relatively low risk, interesting story ideas and shows can be made. Because an absolute failure will not bankrupt you for life.

      • by Hadlock ( 143607 )

        I find the technical channels on youtube to be far superior in quality to broadcast, actually. There are a bunch of technical channels run by engineers, so the dialogue is quite a bit better, production quality is the same if not better. There are a bunch of retired engineers sailing around the world these days producing their own youtube videos about sailing, or rebuilding sailboats, making a ton of money doing it..

        My takeaway from this has been that most people working on broadcast reality TV are

        • by havana9 ( 101033 )
          I don't know where you are, but I have found on public television channells a lot of very interesting content, unfortunately it's normally on specialized channels or in late hours or in the morning. Granted having a piano master explaining the harmonic progression of a sonata and then interviweving a soprano it's a niche show, not to mention live opera.
          Or this program: I miei vinili" [youtube.com] a talk show where a famous peron tals about its favourite records while they'te played on a turntable in the studio.
      • You realize a YouTube channel is equal to a TV show, right?

        So the comparison would be, say, 5 YouTube videos per hour, times 24 hours per day versus individual TV channels.

        So that works out to 120 YouTube channel videos on one TV channel.

        That would become the most watched TV channel overnight.

  • Amazing... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Junta ( 36770 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @10:52AM (#57779718)

    You mean to tell me a free video website has more reach than one that requires a monthly payment? I would never have guessed that...

  • Binge is dead (Score:4, Interesting)

    by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @10:52AM (#57779726)
    Here's how my family currently uses Netflix. Our usage has definitely dropped over time.

    1) Wife will "watch" a series if it's interesting, maybe BBC, after the 10pm news. She's typically asleep by 10:40 and 3/4 episodes often play while she's snoozing.
    2) I watch old Star Trek series, maybe the occasional anime or new sci fi series - typically in the background while I'm working on some side project by myself late at night.
    3) Young daughter will watch girl cartoons, typically for about an hour at a time per day.
    4) Teen boys ignore it. They know how to pirate and don't even bother checking to see if NetFlix has a version of what they want to watch before downloading.

    What aren't we doing? Sitting down to watch anything other than the occasional movie together. No one binges series after series anymore; we pretty much got that out of our systems two years ago. And we still pirate GoT and other "premium" series, particularly if the only legit version online is season-limited or injected with commercials. But 3-4 hours of the same series...in the same sitting? Ain't nobody got that kind of time...
    • TV (and its internet based replacements) have turned from the focus of attention to something you keep running in the background. I don't really watch anything, most of the time it just runs in a spare monitor as some sort of entertainment for the couple brain cells that are not occupied doing something more worthwhile. Given that most series and shows are only interesting about 5-10 minutes of their 40 minute run, with the rest being useless filler to pass the time between the ads, it's good enough to get

    • Re:Binge is dead (Score:5, Insightful)

      by urdak ( 457938 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @11:05AM (#57779798)

      Watching for 3-4 hours straight isn't the only way to do "Binge". What I usually do is watch Netflix about 30 minutes each night (I don't have time for more...), finishing an entire season of a series in a couple of weeks. It's still a "binge" in the sense that I watch the series as one very long movie, and rarely watch other things in the middle. I actually feel that series-watching on Netflix have become the new "book": it takes a long time to finish, every night you continue from where you left off last night, you don't usually do it for 4 hours straight but perhaps more like 30 minutes, and it has a lot of depth and breadth (unlike a short movie).

      Netflix still has a lot of series I want to watch, but I wish they had a lot more of the older TV series (there are *decades* worth of excellent series out there). Star Trek is an excellent example of older content they do have, and I watched.

      • I also have Prime. And I am with you. Prime does have a lot of old T.V. series. Shoot, I watched the very first Beverly Hillbilly's episode last night.

        In our bedroom, we only run an air antenna along with NetFlix and Prime. There ton's of old series. Dragnet, Night Court, Columbo, Space 1999, and more.

        I really don't watch a lot of movies, but my Girl Friend does. That and the NetFlix series.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      YouTube is a different thing. Most of it is amateur or pro-am stuff. Far more niche than any other broadcast format. Videos are typically much shorter than TV programmes. It's a very different beast to Netflix or traditional TV.

      That also explains why YouTube's Premium service is such a joke. 12 quid for no ads and a few original shows. Netflix HD is 8 quid. I'd gladly give them a couple of bucks for no ads, but they only seem to be interested in being some kind of very premium music video service.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      ...No one binges series after series anymore; we pretty much got that out of our systems two years ago. And we still pirate GoT and other "premium" series, particularly if the only legit version online is season-limited or injected with commercials. But 3-4 hours of the same series...in the same sitting? Ain't nobody got that kind of time...

      If you're going through the effort of downloading pirated content in order to watch it, you're probably wasting just as much time as the average binge-watcher.

      And as far as not even checking Netflix before pirating shit, that's just fucking stupid. Talk about not having time to sit around waiting for shit.

      • >> If you're going through the effort of downloading pirated content in order to watch it, you're probably wasting just as much time

        If you had a geek card, now would be the time you need to turn it in.
    • I'm sorry, but since GoT is available via HBO, which is not filled with ads or season limited, what's your justification for pirating it? I mean, I get that $15/mo is too expensive for some people, but are you really pleading poverty?

      • The HBO Android TV app is as crappy as it can be. Crashes, hangs, doesn't even remember where you stopped. I cancelled my subscription after the free month just because of that. Watching GoT was such a pain. Sometimes I had to restart an episode from the beginning and skip to the place it crashed otherwise it would crash again.

        I'd rather download high quality files and play them on Kodi.

        • I'd rather get free stuff too!

          Look, for a long time, people said "oh, if only it was available ala carte as streaming, I wouldn't pirate" Then, it was available, and people found a new excuse.

          However, if you want a better player, and have Prime already, you can watch HBO through the Prime Video app (for a surcharge). Or, the app on iDevices works pretty well.

          • Look, for a long time, people said "oh, if only it was available ala carte as streaming, I wouldn't pirate" Then, it was available, and people found a new excuse.

            Not true. Many stopped pirating when it became more convenient, including me. But I just meant that I considered it in the middle of watching GoT (through legal means). Now some will always pirate stuff, and I'm not advocating for that.

            However, if you want a better player, and have Prime already, you can watch HBO through the Prime Video app (for a surcharge). Or, the app on iDevices works pretty well.

            None of this works for me.

      • I seem to remember the $15 dollars a month deal for IPTV-only access to HBO (HBO Now) is available only in a few countries. In other countries, viewers must first subscribe to a traditional multichannel pay TV package including other WarnerMedia channels, typically at $40/mo or more, before being allowed to subscribe to HBO.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      4) if your kids were robbing the local convenience store every afternoon would you try to stop them?

  • Hard to compete with free

    • Well, once you have a Netflix subscription, it's also "free" for the month, in that "all you can watch" sense. So, the question is, is YouTube making inroads among people with a Netflix subscription.

  • It sounds like someone at YouTube reached out to somebody at Venture Beat and spoonfed them some PR sound bites.

  • by urdak ( 457938 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @10:58AM (#57779758)

    Unlike Youtube, Netflix doesn't get paid (by advertisers) by the amount of time you watch it. A person, like me, can be happy with his Netflix service even if he watches it "just" 30 minutes a day, and even if this person spends other time watching youtube, or, god forbid, sleep.

    For me to remain a happy Netflix customer, it doesn't need to swallow up more of my time or compete with Youtube. It needs to continue to show me things I *want* to see (it needs to increase the amount of content it has - especially "older" movies and series, not just new made-for-Netflix content), it needs to remain ad-free (respecting my time) and it needs to remain cheap, and needs to remain convenient (watch on my phone, watch offline, etc.).

    By the way, Netflix could fairly easily steal Youtube's thunder, by allowing popular content providers (e.g., those already successful on youtube) to upload content which will be shown on Netflix, in return for $0.002 per view (I think this is about what Youtube pays the content uploaders). People will still use Youtube to listen to illegally-uploaded songs, but to watch original content, ad-free, they could go to Netflix.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      A Netflix section of "Community Videos" would be a fairly interesting idea. Basically a competitor for Youtube Red except instead of subscribing to a service with mostly low production cost content you're subscribing to a service with mostly high production cost content and getting your low production cost content ad free as a bonus. I could get behind that.

      Of course, hosting community content is easy. Policing community content - not so much. Youtube has invested a fortune in their content filtering
    • Good points. I might watch more Youtube than Netflix on any given day, but I'm not sending Youtube any money, and I sure as hell am not watching any of their ads. The fact that I watch more of Youtube doesn't benefit them in anyway.

    • If you prefer to pay and not get ads, you can get that on YouTube as well. https://www.youtube.com/premiu... [youtube.com]

      The two aren't really direct competitors IMO, though. I use both, for different kinds of things.

  • People prefer free content, even if it's crap?

    TV should have been a hint.

  • Youtube's advantages (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @11:04AM (#57779782)

    I think the main advantage of Youtube is that they do a much better job of pushing stuff you want to see. You can subscribe to channels and then they show you a list of all tne new stuff in your channels each day. You can sign up for notifications so you never miss a new video. They can recommend new channels to you based on channels you are interested in.

    Netflix seems to be terrible at promoting the content on their service. Every day I go on there and see the same shows and movies being pushed for months at a time. Sometimes I'll go exploring and find that there are great movies on there that they just never tell you about, even if I've watched many similar movies.

    The only way to find these movies, especially when viewing in an app is to search by title, but almost nobody searches by title because so many movies just aren't there. When I want to find stuff they aren't pushing, I go to the web interface, where you can click on the name of actor/director/writer and see all the other content that they have for that person. This feature seems to be absent from the apps, and it's kind of a shame, because there is plenty of good content on Netflix, but much of it is impossible to find.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Netflix seems to be terrible at promoting the content on their service. Every day I go on there and see the same shows and movies being pushed for months at a time

      My experience with Netflix says it gets a whole lot better if you spend some time actively curating your suggestions.

      I'll fairly regularly go through my suggestions and down-vote things I know I'll never watch (like the dozens of Indian movies that show up from time to time). That makes them go away, and new things bubble up. Over time, you weed

    • I didn't even know youtube had a paid version.

      My brother sent me a youtube link the other day on some documentary about chimp memory vs human memory and our evolution. Really interesting stuff.

      I see it is only episode 1. Episode 2 must be worth a watch. I click episode 2, and you have to have youtube premium. I didn't even know it existed.

      Much less how I'd find this kind of full programming vs all the other random youtube stuff.

      That will definitely be a challenge for youtube.

    • I think the main advantage of Youtube is that they do a much better job of pushing stuff you want to see.

      Not in my experience. Like most guys, I have absolutely no interest in Adele’s music - but YouTube seems to think she’s my favorite singer.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by sinij ( 911942 )

      I think the main advantage of Youtube is that they do a much better job of pushing stuff you want to see.

      Opposite here. No matter what I seem to search for on YouTube they want to radicalize me. If I want a talk on specific subject, they immediately start pushing most extreme versions of expressed viewpoints. Consequently, I make a point to regularly wipe history and cookies on any device where I watched youtube.

    • YouTube's biggest advantage is that anyone on the planet can make a video and upload it for viewing. As opposed to Netflix which only carries content created by an elite 0.05% of the population.

      YouTube's biggest disadvantage is also that anyone on the planet can make a video and upload it for viewing, meaning that there are a ton of crappy videos on it not worth viewing. How successful YouTube is thus depends, as you point out, on how well it's able to help viewers sort the wheat from the chaff. It's
  • ....I cannot resist to the call of a good book. This beats anything Netflix could offer to me.
  • I subscribe to a number of channels on YouTube.

    But how often do I watch any of them? Maybe once a month. Certainly not every time they publish.

    Just because you are subscribes does not mean you are going to watch - and because of the short form there, it's pretty easy to ignore updates for even the slightest reason.

    I still do not see YouTube as competing with Netflix, because each has such different time profiles. If I want to watch videos for a few hours, I'm always going to turn to Netflix over YouTube.

  • How about "neither"? I work and study and read. Netflix/Youtube is for the dummies.
    • Re:Neither one (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nwaack ( 3482871 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @12:39PM (#57780362)
      So because YOU don't like it, Netflix and Youtube is for dummies? Not all of us are in school and/or like to read. Some of us have stressful jobs and kids, and very much enjoy those few precious moments when we get to turn off our brains for a bit and relax in front of the TV. But I guess raising children and being successful makes me a dummy, eh?
  • Subscribe to PewDiePie on YouTube!
  • While the article is looking internationally, domestically in the USA the competition is Amazon Prime. Yes, I'm aware they're now branding Prime as it's own thing, but with so many people joining Prime for Amazon or Whole Foods shopping, you have many millions of customers who see the streaming service as a free bonus. If these people don't already subscribe to Netflix, it's now a harder sell, as they have lots of content available already.

    • Prime has a far better selection, from former blockbusters to cheesy cult films that are magnitudes better than the low effort schlock that Netflix primarily trades in these days. I've been with Netflix for around 15 years continuously but I find myself watching Prime so much more. I still have the DVD service but even that is dwindling.
  • by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Monday December 10, 2018 @12:12PM (#57780172)

    I prefer learning stuff over watching yet another cop drama or soap opera
    I can attend graduate-level physics lectures by top professors, with great graphics and sound
    I can learn glassblowing, welding, knifemaking, machining, woodworking, and more
    Currently, I'm watching card magic tutorials
    Even some promotional materials are educational. By watching an ad, I learned about longwall coal mining
    And then, for fun, there's dead malls and Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I prefer learning stuff over watching yet another cop drama or soap opera
      I can attend graduate-level physics lectures by top professors, with great graphics and sound
      I can learn glassblowing, welding, knifemaking, machining, woodworking, and more
      Currently, I'm watching card magic tutorials
      Even some promotional materials are educational. By watching an ad, I learned about longwall coal mining
      And then, for fun, there's dead malls and Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)

      Of course, it's always fun watching people who got law

      • by nwaack ( 3482871 )
        100% this. YouTube know-it-alls are the absolute worst. A member of my immediate family is one of these people. He's unemployed and lives in a friend's basement, so he watches a LOT of YouTube and therefore thinks he knows everything about everything...and isn't afraid to bring up his incredible intellect all the f'ing time. It would be funny if he weren't so arrogant about it.
      • speaking of the "University of YouTube" and sovereign citizens, i found this one quite amusing: Lawyer Reacts to INSANE Lawsuit from Sovereign Citizen Law School Applicant [youtube.com].

        although this one isn't that good apart from the mockery and subject matter, i've found his other videos entertaining and interesting; I often listen to them in the background.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    I'd hate to think I'd have to start paying a monthly fee just to sleep.

  • ... you've hit the bottom of the barrel. You as may as well start broadcasting "Ow! My balls" for all the effort required to reach that demographic.
    • by oic0 ( 1864384 )
      Now days he's a cynical old man who craps on everything. Much more like a late night talk show host, except focused on internet related things instead of politics and celebrities. Its actually fairly entertaining.
  • Well, one thing for sure, I didn't watch Netfix, because I'm not a subscriber. I watched Cable TV. Thinking that it's a choice between Netfix and sleep with no other options is just another example of their hubris.
  • Youtube and Netflix are in two different categories. On the web, I often prefer summaries, tl;drs, bullet points. This is what Youtube is: watch a thing for a few minutes, access a news site, go watch another thing for a few minutes. I have watched lots of 4 minute movies on Youtube, for example, without losing my concentration on all the other tabs/apps I have running.

    Netflix is like a more detailed article. It forces you to dedicate more of your time. You often need to make time for it. Close all other br

  • Netflix is loosing all of Disney content, that's HUGE and a very good reason for parents to stop subing to NF. Disney is making its own channel and what i said was going to happen is now happening. DC made its own network 7.99 a month min,Disney will soon too, bet 10.99 a month or alot more. Cable TV was once Disney bread and butter everyone had to subscribe to cable TV higher tier server to get Disney or pay a sub like they do for HBO. Since people are leaving cable and went to Netflix well looks like di
    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      Interesting part is I believe there was a point where Netflix could have better protected their position as 'source of video from any content provider' with Starz. Starz said 'we are willing to be an add-on' and netflix said 'no, we want a flat rate for all users'. Starz took their ball and went home and the precedent was set for all providers.

      So we are going to finally get that 'a la carte' we always wanted back in the cable days, and it's going to be expensive. If NF had been a common provider then may

      • The good thing, the silver lining.....a lot more good, high-quality and niche content is being created than ever before. And you don't have to buy all of it.
    • The loss of the marvel series sucks, but the rest of it isn't much of a loss that I can see. There just isn't that much mainstream Disney stuff on Netflix. Usually there is a Marvel movie or two and a couple of old movies. Disney runs their content like McD's does the McRib. They'll roll out a movie for a few years then lock it up for a decade before making some new release version of it on whatever the new form of media is. Of all the big IP companies though I think Disney has the best chance of making a g

  • The other big part is keeping material available that folks want to watch.

    There are so many older movies out there that I would like to see again, but none of them are ever on any of the Streaming Services.
    You can rent them via physical media, but good luck finding them as a streaming title.

  • If you REALLY want to see the Internet economy collapse ... just wait until YouTube decides to open up an option to deliver porn. Then the entire Internet economy will become non-viable and things will collapse fast.
  • I thought about making a youtube channel a while ago, and didn't bother. But now its pretty much expected that every single game there is even if its some open source thing in alpha has videos of it somewhere on youtube. So I decide, well, I can't really have a game and not have some kind of play through shown on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
  • it's true that my tv watching is divided between youtube and netflix, but they are complementary and not competition, both serve different things to watch.
    and why would netflix care if i watch youtube anyway, i paid them already, no amount of youtube watching is going to change that.

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