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Software United Kingdom AI Technology

Crime Prediction Software 'Adopted By 14 UK Police Forces' (bbc.com) 131

Posted by msmash from the growing-usage dept.
At least 14 UK police forces have made use of crime-prediction software or plan to do so, according to Liberty. From a report: The human rights group said [PDF] it had sent a total of 90 Freedom of Information requests out last year to discover which forces used the technology. It believes the programs involved can lead to biased policing strategies that unfairly focus on ethnic minorities and lower-income communities. And it said there had been a "severe lack of transparency" about the matter. Defenders of the technology say it can provide new insights into gun and knife crime, sex trafficking and other potentially life-threatening offences at a time when police budgets are under pressure.
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Crime Prediction Software 'Adopted By 14 UK Police Forces' More

Crime Prediction Software 'Adopted By 14 UK Police Forces'

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  • minority (Score:5, Funny)

    by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @02:53PM (#58069228)
    A pool of water with three people in it has been created. Police are looking into it

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 )

      It believes the programs involved can lead to biased policing strategies that unfairly focus on ethnic minorities and lower-income communities.

      Well, if this is where the majority of violent crime happens, they what is wrong with it?

      Are 'facts' now biased if they happened to show it happens more in poor neighborhoods and minority areas?

      Are they wanting to ignore this, and have the cops and SWAT patrolling heavily the low crime areas that might be predominately higher income and less brown, just to be po

  • Like the stock market (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @03:05PM (#58069304) Homepage

    "Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns".

    But, in the case of past criminal activity, areas that have a history of high crime are still likely to have high crime in the future.

    But saying that, and acting on it, has now become racism, because a lot of high crime area also happen to be areas where minorities live. Increasing patrolling of those areas to help reduce crime have a high chance of finding minority offenders committing crime.

    Should the police REDUCE their patrols in those high-crime areas, they'll be accused of racism for not protecting those minorities.

    People who live in those areas should be asking themselves what the motives are of the groups trying to stop the police from doing their jobs.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      That's a problem lefty nutjobs have created.
      Not the left, no, those people are regular and fine, I mean the full-on fucktards that want total deregulation and full social-justice societies. Those kinds of pricks.
      They whine their asses off and rile up the average plebs enough to make them think "hey, wait, yeah, that IS racism!" because they are too dumb to question the reasons.
      You can never please these people. Ever.

      It's worse that the poor police officers are getting fucked over for it. Fucked over for

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        "the full-on fucktards that want total deregulation" = Libertarians, idiot. That's the Tea Party, the only difference is they only want any justice for rich white cowards exclusively.

      • Listen asshole, if you're going to spout white nationalist/supremacist/racist/bigoted/small-minded bullshit like that, at least be enough of a man to put your name to it, so we know who it is that's the white nationalist/supremacist/racist/bigoted/small-minded prick. Otherwise you just come off as a coward. If you really believe all that fucking bullshit you just vomited all over the screen then you should at least stick up for it and take whatever you get for saying it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by atrex ( 4811433 )
      They could easily get around the racial/ethnic complaint by hiring the people of those communities that want to make a difference in them to police them. Could advocacy groups really run around claiming that the arrests are racially motivated if the arresting officer and presiding judges are the same ethnicity as the person being arrested? Side point: giving people jobs with a living wage is one of the fastest ways to reduce crime.
      • What planet are you living on? Many of the arresting officers are the same race as the people being arrested. It makes no difference to people who complain about these things. They just claim it is systemic.

      • Side point: giving people jobs with a living wage is one of the fastest ways to reduce crime.

        Some folks are just plain greedy. A lot of Wall Street types earn way more than a living wage, yet they still manage to get themselves entangled in criminal financial shenanigans.

        It would be very amusing if this crime prediction AI directed police patrol cars to London's financial district.

        • They're not training this software with tales-of-the-rich-and-famous. They're training it with the likes of everyday people that make up a majority of petty criminals.

          The big-time criminals are all safe from such in their elected positions.
      • Um, you DO KNOW that there are numerous examples of African American police officers using excessive force on African American citizens. Don't you?

        https://psmag.com/social-justi... [psmag.com]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      >Increasing patrolling of those areas to help reduce crime have a high chance of finding minority offenders committing crime.

      >Should the police REDUCE their patrols in those high-crime areas, they'll be accused of racism for not protecting those minorities.

      For a real life example of this, see Baltimore after the 2015 riots over the killing of Freddie Gray.

    • YES! Exactly true. We in the US can no longer speak because "facts" are now racist and heaven forbid someone be "racist".. The "facts" are crime is higher in lower income areas. Lower income areas are also tend to have a higher percentages of minorities. So, statistically, YES, by sending police to areas of higher crimes at times when crimes statistically happen, you are sending police to patrol areas of with a higher percentage of non-white populations.... meaning.... profiling works.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      How about this. Should funding for the police ever be cut before funding for the defence forces. You are safe from a potential war but too late you were murdered in your bed.

      Logically should not defence funding be cut to zero before you touch once cent of police funding. What is better value an attack carrier costing billions or a properly functioning police force.

      Surely people can see the stupidity on show, why are they funding nuclear attack submarines when they can not afford a properly functioning poli

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If you send extra officers to an area you will detect more crime, obviously. If you then say that proves that there is more crime in that area you are an idiot. It just means you got better at detecting it there, and helped create some more by criminalizing people who would otherwise have smoked a bit of pot or sprayed some graffiti and then got on with the rest of their lives.

      This is all obvious, right?

      The computer doesn't understand this, it just gets into a feedback loop where the more officers it sends

  • presumed... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by guygo ( 894298 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @03:10PM (#58069332)
    Guilty until proven innocent. Just what every totalitarian government needs to keep whomever they don't like locked up and silent.

  • It's all in how it is regulated and how it is used. Like any technology, whether this is a net-positive or a net-negative for the world isn't immediately obvious. I could easily see this being used to persecute minorities OR to genuinely help lessen crime.

    Who is going to regulate how the police use this though- and what they can get away with?

    • Re:Could be Good... Could be Bad. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ChromeAeonuim ( 1026946 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @03:36PM (#58069478)
      We're talking about the country that arrested someone over a Nazi pug joke. We know exactly which way they're going with regards to surveillance and thoughtcrime.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by atrex ( 4811433 )
      The next step: Minority Report.

    • Re:Could be Good... Could be Bad. (Score:4, Informative)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @03:46PM (#58069540)

      In terms of morals, Net Positive and Net Negative isn't good enough.
      How we handle justice in a society is a strong indication of our real morals as a society.
      It is really easy to justify immoral cruelty, if there is a strong net benefit. But it isn't the right thing to do. Even if nicer way of doing things has less of a net benefit, it is probably the better more moral thing to do.

      The big problem as you had stated the true-net value isn't obvious and may not be calculated for a long time. There is only so much oppression a group can handle, and also if a group isn't allowed to be shared the benefits of society, they will not follow the rules of that society, and make their own sub groups, thus for a program to help identify crime, would find a stronger correlation to that area.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z80a ( 971949 )

      Given it's a country that implements a paid channel by sending people to invade your home and check if you can tune in the channel and charge you instead of you know, encrypting the channel and selling a box, i don't think it will be good.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Falos ( 2905315 )

      Functional systems tend to be more comfortable with oversight, documentation, transparency, limits and controls, checks'n'balances.

      Exploitative systems fear oversight and public records. Use of voodoo tends to fear transparency.

      Usually a hidden and shady system is that way because money is changing hands. But politics is fine too.

    • I think the British know perfectly well what thoughtcrime is. Yes, it could be used to check which areas needs more locks. However, criminals adapt much faster than statistics. All other implementations are very unbellythinkful.

  • "It believes the programs involved can lead to biased policing strategies that unfairly focus on ethnic minorities"

    IMHO:

    What makes them to believe that exactly?
    Where/what is their proof/evidence for such thing can really happen?

    Also, we all need to keep in mind that, higher crime can really happen in poor neighborhoods, where also ethnic minorities maybe majority!!!

    Police need to focus on wherever crime is historically happened more, regardless of ethnic minority situation @ those places!!!
    Or, is the police

    • What makes them to believe that exactly? Racial bias from AI has been shone in the past, because it is based off of data from racial biases.
      Where/what is their proof/evidence for such thing can really happen? Racial biases have been shown in resume filtering programs. The "deep learning" systems, found that factors such as a name or address was corralled with low employment chances, so it rejected the resumes.

      There is crime in wealthy neighborhoods as well. Often more serious crimes. But it often goes unde

      • We get it, you hate the police.

        what happened, you get busted at one time? A relative, a friend?

        Do tell, why do you hate the police so much?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        I think it depends on exactly *how* these 'predictions' are used. If it is used to plan patrols, then in *theory* having patrols in the area should be nothing to fear. If it is used as 'evidence', that would be dumb. If it is used to influence sentencing, that too is dumb and has already been shown to be a problem.

        In the planning patrols use case, it only seems wrong because the relationship between the police and citizenry is dysfunctional. In an ideal system, law-abiding citizens *shouldn't* feel pers

        • I think it depends on exactly *how* these 'predictions' are used. If it is used to plan patrols, then in *theory* having patrols in the area should be nothing to fear. If it is used as 'evidence', that would be dumb.

          Legend tells of a place where such knowledge can be found. Few venture there, and fewer still return.

          Some call it TFA.

      • There is crime in wealthy neighborhoods as well. Often more serious crimes. But it often goes under Kids will be Kids, while a minority will be treated more harshly

        I'm a bit hesitant to compare egging someones house vs drive by shootings with real (stolen) guns.....

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        Or perhaps your perpetual finding of bias is completely manufactured. All the data shows that police actually have an inverse bias towards poor and minorities, you're more likely to get shot or arrested during an encounter if you're white than if you're black.

  • This really reminds me of that movie, the one about crime in the future. I remember it was called "Judge Dredd" and had Stallone in it.

    • And Minority Report : I always dreamed about having a Pre-crime squad! No more crimes! :D

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      That was 1980's Ireland.
      But vans and cars got used.
      Satellite tracking worked wonders on every smaller cell that thought it could never be tracked in real time :)
      To collaborate was the only option.

  • Human rights are destroying the UK (Score:3)

    by Ashthon ( 5513156 ) on Monday February 04, 2019 @03:45PM (#58069536)

    It believes the programs involved can lead to biased policing strategies that unfairly focus on ethnic minorities and lower-income communities.

    Policing should be focused on high-crime sections of the community, since that's where it's needed most. It would be absurd to send the police to wealthy low-crime suburbs and have them walking around doing nothing. If the police were to ignore the crime taking place in low-income communities, the ones who suffer most of the people who live in those communities. I know that because I live in one. Where my parents live there are 25 reported crimes within a 1 mile radius in a month, while where I live there are 650 reported crimes within a one mile radius. I want the police here, tackling crime, not scared of coming here because it wouldn't be politically correct to investigate crime in a low-income area because some arseholes in an ivory tower are worried about "human rights."

    People like this libertyhumanrights.org.uk are a major part of the problem, and are the reason crime is spiralling out of control. We've got police scared to investigate Muslim rape gangs because they fear being called racists, so young girls are left to be abused. We've got police scared to stop and search black people out of fear of being called racists, so children in back communities are being stabbed on their way to and from school. We've got police scared of tackling crime in low-income areas because that's apparently against the human rights of criminals, so crime is left to go out of control. Meanwhile, what police are investigating is "non-crime hate incidents" where somebody posted a nasty comment on Twitter, because the out-of-touch leaders of the country think that's the priority.

    Political correctness is absolutely destroying UK society and things are becoming visibly worse on the streets. The police have become largely irrelevant in many communities, and I don't even waste my time reporting crime to them since I know from past attempts to report serious crime that they will do absolutely nothing. The other day I saw some boys with an air rifle leaned against the wall of a school, shooting it into the school. I ignored it any carried on with my day because I'm well aware that the police are more interested in political correctness and "non-crime hate incidents" than tackling crime. The crime figures here are a fraction of the actual crime rate, but most crime simply goes unreported because the police have become so ineffective it's simply not worth bothering. Sure, if there was a "non-crime hate incident" that's worth reporting as they'll have a van full of officers there in minutes, but if an actual crime is taking place then you're wasting your time.

    Policing in the UK urgently needs reforming, but sadly people of influence, like this ibertyhumanrights.org.uk, are more interested in rearranging the deck chairs while the ship sinks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Policing isn't the solution to crime. That's your mistake, that's why you are part of the problem.

      Liberty understand that, which is why they want to fix the actual problem rather than treating the symptoms.

      Stop being politically correct and demanding harsh treatment. Properly fund youth services and community policing that doesn't criminalize kids, setting them up for a life of crime and poverty.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The addition of crime prediction software to a system that doesn't currently require evidence of a crime even having occurred to convict is terrifying. The UK system regularly imposes criminal penalties on those simply suspected of being the kind of person to commit a crime - no accusation of a crime needed. This isn't going to help any.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      That was for Ireland and bank crime.
      Getting caught with the tools for a crime on the way to do a crime.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mjwx ( 966435 )

        That was for Ireland and bank crime.
        Getting caught with the tools for a crime on the way to do a crime.

        That is what the software is needed for. To continually tell Americans that the Republic of Ireland (ROI) is a completely different nation to the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories... None of which include the ROI.

  • if (lastName == "Trump") probablityOfCrime = 100;
  • Its about total control over an area by criminals to sell anything they want and make a profit.
    Control over an area to commit crime in.
    Criminals get to act the way they do due to a lack of police and poor quality laws.

    How to fix UK crime problems.
    Bring back the police from "internet" comments speech policing and put them back onto community policing down every street.
    Stop and search in any area that has a crime problem to look for tools of crime and stolen items.

    Give education the money and support
  • Last night I watched the latest episode of Victoria on Masterpiece (PBS, if you didn't know). There was a cholera outbreak in London, and in their 19th century mindset, only 1 person out of several so-called 'experts' actually figured out what the real source of the outbreak was, while the other 'experts', including the ostensible Minister of Health, had wild, unsubstantiated 'theories' (using the word in the loosest sense possible here), which included things like "foreigners brought it with them, we shoul

  • We have hate crime and thought crime and now FUTURE CRIME!

    WHEE!

    Because stopping ACTUAL crimes (like grooming gangs, child rape, truck-of-peace, home invasions, etc) are all too much trouble!

    We have have our personnel just sit safely behind a desk and "arrest" people all day long this way!

  • The problem is the crime predicting software may cause police to investigate people against whom there is no solid evidence. Investigation is not harmless -it can cause significant inconvenience and in some cases physical risk. It can also uncover minor crimes that are committed by many people, but usually not noticed. So harm can be caused to people without anything like due process.

    Its very difficult to keep bias out of machine learning data sets. If past bias has caused an unusually high number of a

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