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Transportation United States

US Bars Lithium-ion Batteries From Passenger Aircraft Cargo (cnet.com) 135

Posted by msmash from the greater-good dept.
The U.S. Department of Transportation and the Federal Aviation Administration have issued new rules designed to protect air passengers from the potential dangers of lithium ion batteries. From a report: The new Transportation Department rules come after Congress last year directed the agency to adopt the new rules. The new restriction doesn't apply to passengers or crew bringing electronics aboard aircraft. "This rule will strengthen safety for the traveling public by addressing the unique challenges lithium batteries pose in transportation," US Secretary of Transportation Elaine L. Chao said in a statement. In the past couple of years, the use of lithium-ion batteries has been linked to fires and spewing smoke in a slew of products, including Samsung's now-canceled Galaxy Note 7, hoverboards and Boeing's 787 Dreamliner.
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US Bars Lithium-ion Batteries From Passenger Aircraft Cargo More

US Bars Lithium-ion Batteries From Passenger Aircraft Cargo

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  • Shame... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Thursday February 28, 2019 @04:16PM (#58195666)

    The proper response would have been to ban all Li-Ion batteries from passenger aircraft holds and cargo aircraft. This would have forced manufacturers to air-ship phones and laptops without batteries. With any luck, this would have encouraged the development of standardized, user installable batteries for electronics that would have ground-shipped to brick-and-mortar places and been readily available for sale.

    Sadly, no one has the balls to disrupt the disposable device cartels.

    • ground shipped... Yeah, a 40 ton container full of batteries will make the best fires!

      I say we should use Bic lighters to power our phones. How many of them ever blow up during shipment or storage? I mean, if it weren't for the batteries in the next container?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mattb47 ( 85083 )

        At a concert once, someone 5-6 rows ahead of me was doing the lit lighter thing during a song. Along with hundreds if not thousands of others.

        Then his lighter catastrophically failed, shooting a small fireball into the sky.

        That was fun. (Well, probably not for that person so much...)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )
      That's quite the dream, but with people wanting sleeker laptops and devices, it's more likely that shipping would just take longer. When faced with the choice of waiting a couple extra days for the nicer looking, cheaper laptop or the more expensive bulky one with a removable battery, people are going to choose the former.

      Personally, this is annoying for me since I sometimes travel with laptops and this rule makes it basically impossible
      • Yep, this is just proof that the average sheepsumer is a fucking cretin with no understanding of technology beyond "yeeeeeah, SHINY!" If you read the article, this only bans batteries as cargo, not as carry-on items.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Ksevio ( 865461 )
          I was talking about traveling with laptops in checked luggage. If you read the article, this doesn't ban batteries in carry-on items, so you could likely assume I wasn't talking about those.
          • Why would you check a laptop where some TSA smurf or ramp rat could easily steal it?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Ksevio ( 865461 )
              So I don't have to carry an extra laptop on the plane. How often have you had people stealing your baggage?

              • How often have you had people stealing your baggage?

                I have TSA open my baggage semi-regularly. They are easily confused by simple things. Things that confuse them too much dissappear from my baggage. Or things where the rules change on a regular basis. For example, the original rule was "no lighters carry-on, check them." Now it's "no lighters". I wound up at a site one time with my portable toolkit missing the lighter to start the gas-powered soldering iron. Luckily they didn't notice the soldering iron was gas powered, too.

                But a more important question i

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Ksevio ( 865461 )
                  If I check a laptop, it'll either be in a cardboard box with shipping padding, or a pelican case with padding. The TSA almost always will open the bags and leave a note. I always carry on my primary laptop, so it's usually basic demo machines that get checked. While I'd rather they not get damaged, I don't want to carry an extra 20lbs around the whole trip.

                  • If I check a laptop, it'll either be in a cardboard box with shipping padding, or a pelican case with padding.

                    And any lithium battery will be installed in it. You'll have to carry spare batteries on-board.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Ksevio ( 865461 )
                      The new regulation doesn't make clear if that's allowed though. It says batteries installed can be brought on, and batteries in devices on cargo flights can be in the cargo hold at 30%, but it doesn't make an exception for batteries in devices in the cargo hold on passenger flights

                    • The new regulation doesn't make clear if that's allowed though.

                      Really? From page 1 of the regulation:

                      "This IFR does not restrict passengers or crew members from bringing personal items or electronic devices containing lithium cells or batteries aboard aircraft..."

                      If your laptop contains a lithium battery, then it "contains lithium cells or batteries".

                      It says batteries installed can be brought on,

                      So if your laptop has a battery installed in it, it has a battery installed in it.

                      and batteries in devices on cargo flights can be in the cargo hold at 30%

                      This has been a rule for a long time.

                      but it doesn't make an exception for batteries in devices in the cargo hold on passenger flights

                      Other than saying explicitly that it doesn't prohibit them, you're right, it doesn't "make an excep

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Ksevio ( 865461 )
                      I interpreted "Bringing aboard" to mean carry-on. I guess if baggage in the cargo area of an aircraft counts as something brought aboard by a passenger instead of cargo then it's ok.

      • >but with people wanting sleeker laptops and devices

        Are you sure about that? I've met very few people that actually want thinner phones, tablets, etc. Most everybody I knows primarily wants more speed, size, functionality (e.g. camera quality) and battery life. But if you want high performance, you're pretty much stuck buying flagship devices, which are pretty much only available in "sleek" service-unfriendly devices.

        You can only use the market to evaluate the popular desirability of a particular feat

      • Personally, this is annoying for me since I sometimes travel with laptops and this rule makes it basically impossible

        You find it impossible to put a laptop in your carry-on luggage?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      The proper response would have been to ban all Li-Ion batteries from passenger aircraft holds and cargo aircraft. This would have forced manufacturers to air-ship phones and laptops without batteries. With any luck, this would have encouraged the development of standardized, user installable batteries for electronics that would have ground-shipped to brick-and-mortar places and been readily available for sale.

      Sadly, no one has the balls to disrupt the disposable device cartels.

      Well, for a while in the late

    • Here you go [alibaba.com]. Big removable battery, big screen, lots of cores and memory, ready to roll! You can get what you want today... And a lot of the 2nd/3rd tier cellphone brands in Asia have removable batteries. The cartels you speak of tend to offer what people want - and most don't care about removable batteries.
      • It doesn't do US 4G frequencies, unfortunately. If it did, I'd buy one (or 10) over any US "flagshit" phone.
        • Verizon does Band 1 - this phone does Band 1. But choose the bands you want to cover, you'll find equivalent phones all over Alibaba and other China-sourcing websites...
          • Do you have any recommendations for T-mobile/MetroPCS bands?
            • Check out AGM Mobile [agmmobile.com], most of them have removable batteries, they have a wide variety of radios, tend to be IPX rated, and have features like enabled FM radios. The AGM A8 would work for you...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bongey ( 974911 )

      Guess it doesn't apply to aircraft themselves, Boeing's solution for their burning batteries, put it in titanium box with tubes. They are still catching on fire 4 years later. https://www.forbes.com/sites/c... [forbes.com]

    • "The proper response would have been to ban all Li-Ion batteries from passenger aircraft holds and cargo aircraft. "

      The issue is specifically batteries shipped when not contained in equipment. So you are trying to get a regulatory ruling from a agency unrelated to the field that is unrelated to problem that the agency was tasked to address. That's pretty much the definition of an improper response.

  • As long as they are carrying passengers.

    • The rule is specifically about packed batteries not contained in equipment. It would not apply to batteries connected to the airplanes other systems.

  • MH370 may of been downed by them!

  • Um. . . . ok (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Thursday February 28, 2019 @04:32PM (#58195804)

    So I'm curious how this is going to work when I bring my Camera bag ( Think Tank Glass Limo ) with me as a carry-on and the flight attendant tells me there isn't any room and I will need to check my bag. Batteries already installed in the camera bodies should be fine, but I'm curious how they'll deal with the spares I carry. Typically, one spare per camera body.

    Not that I'm about to check my camera gear. I'll deplane before I do so since the airline will refuse to reimburse me for the $15k+ worth of gear in said bag when one of their thugs . . . . er ' baggage handlers ' helps themselves to the contents or bounces it off the pavement.

    I suppose, under the new rules, I can just tell the flight attendant that my bag contains fully charged Li-Ion batteries and cannot be checked ?

    This should be fun :|

    • They'll tell you to remove them just like they do now.

      • No, they won't actually give a shit, just like they don't now.
        The person at check in might give a shit, but he mentioned flight attendant. He's already on the plane, and all anyone cares about at that point, including the crew, is getting the sheep in the seats and getting the tin can off the fucking ground.

    • I don't know if it's realistic in your scenario but could you ship the gear to your destination ahead of time?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      So I'm curious how this is going to work when I bring my Camera bag ( Think Tank Glass Limo ) with me as a carry-on and the flight attendant tells me there isn't any room and I will need to check my bag. Batteries already installed in the camera bodies should be fine, but I'm curious how they'll deal with the spares I carry. Typically, one spare per camera body.

      Not that I'm about to check my camera gear. I'll deplane before I do so since the airline will refuse to reimburse me for the $15k+ worth of gear in said bag when one of their thugs . . . . er ' baggage handlers ' helps themselves to the contents or bounces it off the pavement.

      I suppose, under the new rules, I can just tell the flight attendant that my bag contains fully charged Li-Ion batteries and cannot be checked ?

      This should be fun :|

      They'll just tell you the bag must be abandoned or sent via ground freight.

      Michael O'Leary, Scumbag CEO of one of the worlds worst Airlines, Ryanair has been quoted as saying "Our booking engine is full of passengers who have sworn they will never fly with us again". Not like airlines are really scared of upset customers.

    • So I'm curious how this is going to work when I bring my Camera bag ( Think Tank Glass Limo ) with me as a carry-on and the flight attendant tells me there isn't any room and I will need to check my bag.

      That's easy: "Miss, there's a camera in here and it's not going in the hold." Done. That easy. You'll also notice that camera and laptop bags are pretty much never the first to get put in the hold. You'll see those rude f-wits who bring oversized trolleys full of cloths because they don't want to pay $10 for checked bagging giving up their bags long before you have to worry about your precious camera and it's tiny battery.

      This should be fun :|

      It's far more mundane than you think. At least that's my experience with European and

  • If the electronics are going to be aboard the aircraft what's the point? Can they put out a lithium fire?
  • Does this possibly pertain to things like portable chargers/larger battery packs? Mobile devices still don't usually have the juice for constant use for long distance flights, so a portable charger is pretty much a must have.

  • news for nerds with limited reading comprehension (Score:5, Informative)

    by sunking2 ( 521698 ) on Thursday February 28, 2019 @04:59PM (#58196052)

    Passenger flights often allocate some of their space for regular air cargo. This isn't about banning your computer or camera from being in your luggage. Luggage hold is not cargo hold. What they are avoiding is a passenger plane being used to ferry batteries as a cargo carrier where you could have a box of dozens of them in a confined space. I don't have an issue with this.

    • "Luggage hold is not cargo hold."

      It's literally the same hold.

      • Admittedly poorly worded. It's not about where it's held, but whether it's associated with a flyer. What they don't want is cases of lithiums flying on commercial airlines. This is the difference between luggage and cargo, not where it's held.

        • Packed batteries not contained in equipment are prohibited from passenger luggage. Batteries contained in equipment are allowed in cargo. Luggage and cargo are being treated the same.

    • This isn't about banning your computer or camera from being in your luggage.

      Err no. This is *exactly* about that, and has been a policy in Europe and Asia for a long time now. Here's an excerpt from some airline rules:

      KLM (Netherlands): Therefore, lithium batteries and power banks for personal use in devices such as laptops, mobile phones and DVD players, and for medical equipment is restricted and may only be carried in hand baggage. Each spare battery must be packed separately in the original packaging. If you no longer have this packaging, you must cover the battery contact poin

      • This isn't about banning your computer or camera from being in your luggage.

        Err no. This is *exactly* about that,

        Err, no, it is not. Your computer or camera can still be in your luggage. Nothing in this new rule prohibits that.

        and has been a policy in Europe and Asia for a long time now. Here's an excerpt from some airline rules:

        Those rules don't ban cameras or laptops from luggage. Read them again. They talk about batteries, not the equipment they are installed in.

        Singapore actually allow you to check in devices with lithium batteries,

        So do KLM and QANTAS and United and ...

  • [banning] products, including Samsung's now-canceled Galaxy Note 7, hoverboards and Boeing's 787 Dreamliner.

    Damn! I always had packed a Dreamliner or two with me on trips.

  • Original announcement (Score:5, Informative)

    by Walter White ( 1573805 ) on Thursday February 28, 2019 @07:31PM (#58196752)

    For those who would prefer to see the actual announcement rather than discussion of it on an add ridden site with auto-play video you can go to
    https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news... [dot.gov]

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