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United States China Government

US Tells Germany To Stop Using Huawei Equipment Or Lose Some Intelligence Access (theverge.com) 417

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the United States has told Germany to drop Huawei from its future plans or risk losing access to some U.S. intelligence. The U.S. says the Chinese company's equipment could be used for espionage -- a concern that Huawei says is unfounded. "The Trump administration has been pressing allies to end their relationships with Huawei, but Germany, moving ahead with its plans, has not moved to ban the company from its networks," reports The Verge. From the report: According to the Journal, a letter sent from the U.S. Ambassador to Germany warns the country that the U.S. will stop sharing some secrets if it allows Huawei to work on its next-generation 5G infrastructure. The letter, according to the Journal, argues that network security can't be effectively managed by audits of equipment or software. While the U.S. plans to continue sharing intelligence with Germany regardless, the Journal reports, officials plan to curtail the scope of that information if Huawei equipment is used in German infrastructure.
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US Tells Germany To Stop Using Huawei Equipment Or Lose Some Intelligence Access

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  • Recommendations? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Patrick Kursawe ( 4264331 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @05:21AM (#58259346)
    What else? Maybe Cisco? https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]
  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by idji ( 984038 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @05:58AM (#58259428)
    Why doesn't anyone talk about the NSA's known actions to install physical and software backdoors in American hardware, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], and that Huawei has never been shown to do that?
    This looks like a Trump MAGA Tamtrum to protect Cisco, etc, and wage a useless trade ware.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why doesn't anyone talk about the NSA's ...

      They are. Just like you. But this is not about NSA is it?

    • Also, if the US communicates secrets with Germany properly, the way it should be done, using strong end-to-end encryption, the communication infrastructure shouldn't matter. The Chinese or anybody shouldn't be able to snoop in.

      Something different to worry about would be kill switches. Something like an automatic software update that shuts down the network or even transmits false and potentially harmful data to damage other systems.

    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )

      What about that chip that made the headlines less than a year ago? The one that had supermicro on the defense for quite a bit? Of course you know the NSA spying, but I wouldn’t go as far as to think China is not. We’re talking about the country that thinks it’s their job to pick the next Dalai Lama when it’s not even in their fucking country. The same country that thinks it’s their job to tell the heads of the five major tai chi styles who their next grandmaster heir-appa

      • Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)

        by _merlin ( 160982 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:25AM (#58259820) Homepage Journal

        That story isn't credible, and no-one has produced a photograph of the chip.

      • by jeti ( 105266 )
        The chip nobody was able to find?
    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
      Are you kidding? The comment section talks about the NSA every fucking time an article like this is posted.
      This is why I try to keep my nose out of political stuff here on slashdot. The comment section quickly turns into weapon's grade bullshit polemics and people with mod points only exacerbate it.
    • If this was a story about Russia telling Belarus not to buy American network hardware if they wanted full access to military information sharing, then you'd have a point.

      But it isn't. So you don't.

      This is the basic question presented: Are you a MILITARY ALLY of the United States... or not?

      Unlike many world powers, all US allies have that status by choice and consent. You can leave at any time. Byeeeeee.

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      The BND in Germany is going to have to select between the NSA it has worked for over decades.
      Letting Germany not get daily quality US mil/intelligence support.

      Its the US tax payers who fund the collection it all by the NSA all over the world.
      Thats US mil/cryto product to share with its better friends globally.
      Should Germany not want to work with the NSA and fail to keep its communications networks secure, then the USA can move away from so much sharing/trust with Germany.
      The BND will have to step up a
    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @08:31AM (#58260184) Homepage Journal

      It's always perplexing to see Trump Derangement Syndrome posts that both give Trump imaginary infinite power and cunning and call him stupid.

      The President is just a figurehead. Obama's NSA spied on Angela Merkle's phone calls and they want to keep doing that. With the CIA's abysmal track record it's hard to imagine the US has anything worth offering that is worth Germany relinquishing its sovereignty.

      Why the heck aren't they funding a jobs program to build an open source telephony platform on top of OpenSwitch?

      Germany used to be known as the country of first-rate engineering - they ought to leverage their latent genetic advantage. And tell the NSA to pound sand.

  • Anything that spies on you sends the results to the same database in the end, which certain alphabet agencies and Mossad have direct access to.
  • Use of Huawei by Germany should be discontinued because it would be a threat to US intelligence for sharing secret information with Germany.
  • by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:14AM (#58259498)
    Since everybody is forced to use VPN to access Google and such.
  • Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:36AM (#58259592)

    Of course we should consider that Huawai may be forced to include backdoors.

    On the other hand, with Cisco, we know it.

    And if the US wants to start the blackmailing game, I'm sure they can call Cisco and make sure that their prices are.... compareable. Or if you have anything that may hint that Huawai indeed build in backdoors: Come up with some proof. Or at least an effing hint. Or clue. Or inkling... anything that is better than mere claim.

    I'd even go as far and say that we'd be willing to believe any actual evidence (better to be spied on by the US than China) but as long there isn't anything like that the only sensible way to go is to put any possible vendor through a strict security check.

    • Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:07AM (#58259728)

      Better the enemy you know than the one you don't.

      So, why do you think it's a good idea to pay China for equipment that likely has back doors, or the possibility to add them sometime in the future by a company that's owned by a hostile state? Cisco may have well documented security issues, but they are not owned and controlled by a country that is hostile. Huawai would be in position to put a back door into any of their equipment with a firmware update, even if they don't exist now. Why take that chance? And how would you be able to know if they did? I seriously doubt they'd let you build the code from source...

      Besides, Cisco and Huawai are not the only two choices here. There are more.

      The issue here is who is behind the company. Huawai is clearly state run, in a thinly veiled way. Clearly Huawai would do as the government requires, and if that was to hide backdoors in their firmware updates, you can bet they'd do it. Cisco? Not so much.

      • Re:Of course! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @08:08AM (#58260050)

        So, why do you think it's a good idea to pay China for equipment that likely has back doors,

        Again, that's a false premise. As of now, your question should be phrased: Why do you think it's a good idea to pay China for equipment that has no indication of backdoors or security issues except unfounded claims from someone backing a competing vendor?

        Huawai would be in position to put a back door into any of their equipment with a firmware update, even if they don't exist now. Why take that chance? And how would you be able to know if they did? I seriously doubt they'd let you build the code from source...

        They will if they want to sell it to Germany and if it is necessary to pass the security audit. And with no reliable information performing such an audit for ANY possible vendor is the only way to go.

        Clearly Huawai would do as the government requires, and if that was to hide backdoors in their firmware updates, you can bet they'd do it. Cisco? Not so much.

        Well, any american company also is no further than a NSL away from having to give the three letter agencies full access, too. So, again, Germany can't rely on anyone here and has to run their own strict security audit and include any possible vendor here.

  • by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @06:42AM (#58259622)

    Ok so the US is concerned that Huawei gear could be used to spy.
    The question I have is, why the hell is data (government or otherwise) being sent over cellular networks in a way that compromised gear (regardless of manufacturer) could steal it?

    What data (intelligence or otherwise) are the US scared the Chinese might steal and why would it be sent over any networks without encryption?

    • What makes you think its only cellular and unencrypted? Huawei doesn't just sell cellular modems. They sell a little bit of everything. As for encryption, it doesn't matter how nice your VPN tunnel is when the device that is providing that service is compromised. Come one, this is infosec 101. Get out of here with this weak shit.
      • by Megol ( 3135005 )

        Yes so buying processors from an US company should be forbidden. Who know if Intel didn't deliberately include the Meltdown functionality for the NSA and other US intelligence agencies?
        If the information is encrypted in a pure wholesome and superior European processor it doesn't matter if the information is transferred via a dirty communist Chinese chip or even touched by a Trumpian weasel of a processor.
        (May contain some irony - but it's 100% correct)

    • I would think Germany for handling classified intelligence information would be using Siemens gear or something they have tight control over. I don't see why this is a problem for normal German Citizen, as they are not getting private US intelligence on their personal devices.

      Secondly I would think if this data would be via closed circuit where the routes would be tightly controlled. Heck for my work environment, we have numerous closed circuit network connections, with high levels encryption, just to be s

    • We know well, from Merkel's cell phone, and others, that any secrets we share will get talked about on the phone, and that government employees, even at the highest level, consider their cell phone to be a normal way to conduct business.

      Therefore if we're not sure about the security of your phone network, we don't want to share too much info.

      It is that simple.

  • by thereddaikon ( 5795246 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2019 @07:27AM (#58259838)
    The comments are always full of whattaboutism with Cisco. That's a red herring to the discussion. And to the arrogant Europeans who think they can live without US intelligence because Orange Man Bad. Enjoy losing access to all of those satellites, drones, ELINT platforms and more. Its a hard pill to swallow but Europe's military is tiny and you simply haven't invested in those platforms. Without access to US assets you have little to no intelligence gathering capability on your own. I also don't think there is anything unreasonable about the requirements. Would you have said the same thing in the 60's if the US refused to share intel over Russian built radios? Why do you think Chinese built hardware is acceptable for official purposes. You have your own tech companies, buy their hardware.
  • We can assume that the US intelligence on the issues pertaining German security (say terrorist network cells in Germany, or German infrastructure being infiltrated by foreign actors) is the one that interests Germans the most, and it's inconceivable that US won't share it because of Huawei. Imagine that after a major terrorist attack in Germany someone in the WH announced, "see, we could have warned you, but you! bought Huawei equipment! never!"

A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the seed from which other committees will bloom. -- Parkinson

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