Kickstarter's Staff Is Unionizing (theverge.com) 145
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: The staff of Kickstarter announced plans to unionize today. If recognized, Kickstarter would be the first major tech company with union representation in the United States. Members of the union, which goes by Kickstarter United, say they want to improve inclusivity and transparency at the company. To unionize, they're working with the Office and Professional Employees International Union (OPEIU) Local 153. In a statement, the union said: "Kickstarter United is proud to start the process of unionizing to safeguard and enrich Kickstarter's charter commitments to creativity, equity, and a positive impact on society. We trust in the democratic process and are confident that the leadership of Kickstarter stands with us in that effort. Kickstarter has always been a trailblazer, and this is a pivotal moment for tech. We want to set the standard for the entire industry. Now is the time. Come together. Unionize."
In a world of Facebook and Twitter, Kickstarter feels almost quaint in its mission -- "to help bring creative projects to life" -- and in its charter as a public benefit corporation, which means that the company is "obligated to consider the impact of their decisions on society, not only shareholders." Its staff unionizing means the company will also have to consider more seriously its responsibilities to its employees. It also means that its fellows in Silicon Valley and beyond could be next. Kickstarter is fundamentally a tech company, and its staff unionizing with the OPEIU shows a way forward for other employees in the space. Kickstarter's staff is unionizing because they want to "promote our collective values: inclusion and solidarity, transparency and accountability; a seat at the table," the organizers write, noting that in the decade that Kickstarter has been around, it's democratized crowdfunding and brought more than 150,000 projects to life. "Kickstarter's efforts are incomplete, and these values have failed to manifest in our workplace. We can do better together -- for ourselves and our industry."
In a world of Facebook and Twitter, Kickstarter feels almost quaint in its mission -- "to help bring creative projects to life" -- and in its charter as a public benefit corporation, which means that the company is "obligated to consider the impact of their decisions on society, not only shareholders." Its staff unionizing means the company will also have to consider more seriously its responsibilities to its employees. It also means that its fellows in Silicon Valley and beyond could be next. Kickstarter is fundamentally a tech company, and its staff unionizing with the OPEIU shows a way forward for other employees in the space. Kickstarter's staff is unionizing because they want to "promote our collective values: inclusion and solidarity, transparency and accountability; a seat at the table," the organizers write, noting that in the decade that Kickstarter has been around, it's democratized crowdfunding and brought more than 150,000 projects to life. "Kickstarter's efforts are incomplete, and these values have failed to manifest in our workplace. We can do better together -- for ourselves and our industry."
The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:1, Flamebait)
...how long will this one last? Until the first round of contract negotiations? Until the first quarter of declining growth and/or revenue?
Pessimistic, I know, but I bet the likes of GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc felt the same way in 1955 that Kickstarter does now. However, when the pressure came down in the 1970's-1980s, the automakers' tune(s) began to change radically. I suspect Kickstarter will do the same.
After all, there's a reason why the otherwise progressive leadership at Google, Apple, and the other lon
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:5, Funny)
>Say "hello" to bad employees you can never fire....
Kickstarter already had a CEO, dude.
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:5, Insightful)
You've never heard of shareholders forcing a CEO out?
I would love to be 'forced out' with the type of golden parachute that CEOs get.
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But a lot of times it's also giving a fat paycheck to one of your chums, so that he'll do the same for you.
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:5, Informative)
Bad start, when the headline writer and the article author feel the need to lie to their readers from the very beginning.
All of the "kickstarters staff" isn't unionizing, the article writer tries his hardest to claim this is on behalf of all of their staff, but it's obvious from the end that there are some people who work at Kickstarter (how many exactly isn't stated... hmmm.... wonder why?) who want them to unionize, but they haven't actually unionized yet. That requires and actual vote of the staff who would be effected, which apparently hasn't happened yet.
As far as I can tell from the various articles, there are some members of staff who are working on "forming" a labor union called Kickstarter United.
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Neat. I love anecdotal data. I work in a union shop as well. We all bust our asses and receive a 10% contribution to our 401k's and a 10% cash bonus each Christmas. Your workers are lazy because you work for a shit company with shit hiring managers and pay bottom-of-the-barrel salaries. Have fun being treated like bitch your whole life.
Re: The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:1)
Agree, all these shitlords come out at the slightest whiff of a union and start spewing their tropes. What they forget is that every Union has its own rules, decided by the union members. All a union means is that employees will collectively bargain the terms of their employment. You can still fire employees who are working unethically, you can still have different pay grades, low union fees, etc.
Speaking of "shitlords" (Score:1)
People like you come out and start lying about how each union "has it's own rules", like that means they are completely different and won't destroy any company or industry they are formed in. History says otherwise.
Unions are useful in the short-term, but long-term the result is always the same: Shitty employees can't be fired, and corporations outsource their "production" to lower-cost countries.
captcha: "desserts"
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That's just repeating borish anti-union tropes that are powered by willful dumbfuckery. Any union is utterly dependent on the long term success of the company and industry it is in. As opposed to executives and unique Randian snowflakes like yourself, who only plan to work at a position for a year or two before applying for a different position with a different company.
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Uh huh. Does your company have to compete for labor with companies that are unionized, and thus forcing up your wages and benefits despite your being a class traitor?
Union power is di
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Unions destroy companies? Really? So, are you working as a troll and getting paid for this propaganda, or are you just a sucker for the propaganda?
Example 1: Eastern Airlines. Before Lorenzo took over in the late '80's, the unions opposed him, with smoking gun letters they'd obtained, showing his goal was to destroy the unions. HE RAN EASTERN INTO THE GROUND, and it went under SOLELY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BREAK THE UNIONS.
Example 2: The coal companies, a few years back, spun off another coal company, with *i
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Hmm....back when I worked W2 jobs...our company MATCHED our 401K contributions. I had some jobs with Xmas bonus and some not, but the 401K thing was at most W2 jobs I had in the not too distant past.
Sounds like your union needs to do more for you....get you up to at least non-union benefits.
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:4, Informative)
Say "hello" to bad employees you can never fire....
This is a very misinformed myth. It's the same myth as the welfare queen. Someone finds a handful of examples and then misrepresents those individuals as representative of the entire group.
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not one of those people who believe all unions are evil or that they shouldn't exist. I personally wouldn't be likely to want to join one, but if other people want to start one, that's their business and not mine. However, it's not a misinformed myth that unions will keep people around who really should be fired. Nor are the infallible in their decision making and they're as capable of any vice as the company board.
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Cops in any state and NY teachers come to mind.
Like I said, a handful of examples.
However, it's not a misinformed myth that unions will keep people around who really should be fired..
The poster I responded to implied that the unionized Kickstarter employees would be immune to firing. The underlying implication was that this is a fact for all unions. It is not, by a long shot. You provided two examples out of thousands. So you're right, this isn't a misinformed myth. It's just pure misinformation.
Nor are the infallible in their decision making and they're as capable of any vice as the company board.
Not sure why this is relevant. I never implied that they weren't.
Re: The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:2)
...So you're saying one side has ACTUAL examples, and the other side (with no basis whatsoever except their own ideals) disputes the applicability of those examples?
Then it's clear who is winning the debate.
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is also not a debate. It's a refutation of a lie. But if you need evidence then sure. Chew on this. http://haveyouheardblog.com/wp... [haveyouheardblog.com]
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No. The GP did not say all employees are going to be bad and you won't be able to fire them. What the GP said is say hello to bad employees you can never fire. Bad employees are universal. The inability to fire them is something that is enabled by shitty unions.
It would be a more accurate rebuff to the GP to say that not all unions defend bad employees, but at no point was the GP applying individuals to the whole in terms of employee performance.
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That's not at all what I implied. The OP implied that the Kickstarter union will prevent any bad employees from being fired. That's it, nothing more nothing less.
As for shitty unions, you seem to lack understanding of their purpose. Let's compare them to a public defender. Public defenders are forced to defend some people who most would consider shitty people who did bad things. But the PD isn't there to judge his client, nor should the PD be judged for defending him. He's there to make sure that he i
Oh you missed a big one (Score:1)
Until they demand Kickstarter get even stricter and more biased in who they fund. Chasing even more business to other platforms.
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Until, for some reason, they need ionized water.
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I would ruthlessly reject any attempt at my staff unionizing as well, that's because there is no reason for developers that I hire to be a 'union', they are paid very well for where they are and what they do and I have 0 interest to talk to groups of people, if I wanted to talk to groups I would talk to governments and I hate governments.
People will negotiate with me on their own, not as groups, it sounds like coercion and oppression by groups and I won't stand for it. The greatest problem of-course is gov
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I would ruthlessly reject any attempt at my staff unionizing as well
Of course you would, it is antithetical to your religion, even if you cannot articulate why.
they are paid very well for where they are and what they do
Anyone who has read your comments where you brag about not paying your employees at all knows that this line is bullshit. You have bragged many times about what you have done to avoid paying your employees.
I have 0 interest to talk to groups of people
People will negotiate with me on their own, not as groups, it sounds like coercion and oppression by groups and I won't stand for it
You really don't understand how union negotiations work, do you? If you had 10 employees and they were all unionized, you would negotiate with one union rep and you'd be do
Re:The Betting Pool is Open... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is the problems of today are not the problems a hundred years ago, however, the Unions are structure roughly the same way.
100 years ago most communities were centered around one or two factories. People had limited transportation available to them, the idea of transporting from one town to the next one 10 miles away was a big deal. So you worked for the company, lived in company housing (which your rent came out of your pay), having to buy food at the company store. If you got injured and couldn't work, you have lost your job and your access to housing and the company store, which is a big part of the community you lived in. In short, the company owned you, and you were really one step above being a slave.
Today (and thanks to the effort of these unions of the past) The conditions are now much different, we have the ability to find work in different towns and cities, even go across states for commuting isn't unheard of. There is a social safety net where there are unemployment payments where you can pay you enough to keep your home for a while, where you can find another job.
However, Unions play on the idea that you are stuck to your job. Where today being stuck, just means, we don't want to risk getting another job. But It is a different environment. While today's economy and the workers need support in negotiating with the company, today's Unions are seeming more fixed on gaining a power base, then actually helping the employees with useful things like wage parity, health care, benefits.
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Don't generalise. It destroys your argument. There is still an imbalance in power between an employer and employee, so unions are still terribly important. If one looks at countries with functioning unions (Germany, for example), you'd see they work and work well. They're not going to magically fix shitty business cultures, but they give the employees more of a chance to fix them.
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So by not generalizing and giving examples, such as skilled labor getting laid off from a company after working there for 30 years, just so they can bring in 12 more unionized employees. Or negotiation to get rid of the IT Staff from a company, so the can bring in more unionized labors.
But then I am just giving Anecdotal evidence.
I have seen companies getting unionized. Where they had problems before, but after the unionization the problems didn't go away but they amplified, rises in Salary went mostly to
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There are pros and cons to unions. However I will comment on your power base comment which is totally a thing.
Call it power base, call it membership, call it self-perpetuation. That's ta unions #1 goal, everything else is secondary. It really comes down to motivation.
In the same way that a real estate agent really has little vested interest in getting you a better deal, their interest is their time so the faster they can sell it the better, but since they get a percentage, the more it costs, the more they g
Where Can I Donate? (Score:5, Funny)
The staff of Kickstarter announced plans to unionize today.
Anyone know their GoFundMe page so I can donate to the cause?
This will end well (Score:3, Insightful)
say they want to improve inclusivity and transparency at the company.
This reads like a train wreck in progress. I can't wait.
Re:This will end well (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yep, nothing improves company morale faster than bringing in a bunch of under-qualified/over-sensitive women and minorities who will immediately start throwing the racism/sexism card anytime they screw up, cause a 1,000% increase in drama, and contribute little-or-nothing to the team except making meetings twice as long because they want to waste time discussing their feelings and political issues. And get ready to waste a lot of time that you could be doing actual work in new mandatory "sensitivity trainin
Re:This will end well (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is diversity of skin tone and gender preferable over meritocracy?
Allow me to rephrase that.
Why is racism/sexism preferable over meritocracy?
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Because John over there is on his period and the doctor said that wouldn't happen when he took those pills.
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Inclusivity has nothing to do with hiring or diversity.
It's about making sure that the people already at the company are not excluded, directly or systemically.
It actually enhances meritocracy by ensuring that merit is measured in an unbiased, accurate way.
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It actually enhances meritocracy by ensuring that merit is measured in an unbiased, accurate way.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/... [thecollegefix.com]
I'm sorry; you were babbling something about inclusivity being a good thing?
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You really need to learn to google before believing the first thing you read about a controversial event like this. There are people out there looking to mislead you for their own ends.
Here's a more factual, straightforward article: http://www.citypages.com/news/... [citypages.com]
As it explains it wasn't even a one-off event, it was an issue over two years, and the suspension was as the result of many other issues:
As of last month, Adamo had been âoeunilaterallyâ removed by Augsburgâ(TM)s provost, citing a âoerange of issuesâ raised by students: âoebias and discrimination,â âoerespect for students,â âoeteaching competenceâ and âoeprogram leadership.â These âoeissues,â a release from the university said, go beyond âoethat specific eventâ in October.
I can't be bothered to spend more time investigating the incident but it doesn't seem to be what that article
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I can see why you don't want to research this incident anymore; your data is just as damning as mine.
Hurrah for inclusivity!
From VentureBeat... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Kickstarter management announced that it will be offshoring it's operations to Bangalore."
In a statement from the CEO: "We needed to focus on our core competency and will continue to make Kickstarter great by offshoring non-essential operations to a third party. This will maximize the equity of the founders, senior management and the board of directors."
Good! (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm sure we'll hear all the arguments about shipping jobs overseas or whatever.
That's already happening. The fact that we're making LESS today than we did years ago (inflation adjusted) should tell you something. And it's NOT all offshoring or H1-bs.
And it's not just making less- it's longer hours. I remember when you could work 9-5 in this industry and NOT have to be "available" 24/7 - even on vacations.
I miss having a life. A life where I could leave work, go exercise, learn some crazy technology that
Re: Good! (Score:1)
Completely agree. Tech used to be a job where you added so much value by the end of a normal work day you could happily go home at a normal hour. Now they want you to wear 15 hats and stand behind you Agilely with a shotgun to make sure youâ(TM)re always afraid of missing your manager inflicted deadlines...
You are part of the 1%, you just don't know it (Score:3)
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stdh.txt
I worked in a union. Wouldn't do it again. (Score:3, Informative)
I worked for a large auto maker and was in a union for a few years after I started. I ended up leaving the union once I realized that it was an option. That plant is now shut down.
Bad things a union brings:
Terrible workers getting paid the same as great workers.
Unsustainable compensation for workers.
Taking dues and giving them to political causes that some of their members may not support.
Would never want to be in a union again.
Randian BS + anecdotes + confirmation bias (Score:1)
This anti-union bullshit is predicated on the notion that you are just dying to do not only your own job, but Billy Bob's over there when he starts to slack off. Human beings simply aren't built that way.
Unions will accept cutbacks to save their jobs. Because, dipshit, their long term existence is utterly dependent on the long term well being of the company. As opposed to executives who DGAF if the company goes
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So you have a beef with unions but are.....ranting at management? You spend a few too many years huffing fumes at your non-union job?
lolz unionizing in IT (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't want the pay cut
collectively bargain your way out of employability
Re:lolz de-ionizing in IT (Score:1)
How do you tell the difference in a plumber and a chemist? Ask them to pronounce unionized.
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In USA a chemist's salary goes up to $55 an hour or $114K a year, my friend who graduated high school with me makes almost twice that with his own business and a couple apprentices.
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To be clear, he's a contracting plumber who works on a lot of schools and municipal buildings, though also custom renovation for homes
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Why is American so vulnerable to this happening? It doesn't happen in Europe where unions are fairly common.
What is it about America that allows employers to make unionizing a losing proposition for the employees?
Money laying on the floor (Score:3, Funny)
Someone should start a Kickstarter fund to get a non-union competitor up and running.
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Why? For ideological zealots who are offended by every attempt to better ones station in life?
That's the problem - bettering One, not All (Score:1, Troll)
Why? For ideological zealots who are offended by every attempt to better ones station in life?
Who benefits? Not the workers, that's for sure. The only person this benefits is the person who is paid to head the union for the workers.
A person who does no actual work, but just talks to management about the workers. Which each side could easily do on their own, for free.
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That's an interesting take, but not very representative of history. They largest period of wage growth in america coincided with the largest percentage of union participation. As union participation dropped, wages stagnated. While there is no guarantee that this is causation in action, it's certainly harder to logically argue the reverse. People these days have no perspective on what things were like in this country prior to unionization, and how easily we are getting rid of protections that our forefat
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Many of us that are against unions don't disagree that they once had a positive impact. What we argue is their time has come and gone. Much of the impact they had got codified in to law and regulations. Now they're a corrupt manifestation that's more about money for the union coffers than helping the employees. They're also far more political these days too, often in the opposite way of half their membership.
You can't just look at union membership numbers against the metrics you raise. A big part was t
Bezos... (Score:1)
Just turned deathly pale and is trembling...
Well here's a questio: (Score:3, Interesting)
Fucking WHY? You take people's money and solve the occasional dispute. That's about it. In what reality does the inclusion of a union aid in this task? There is literately not a single fucking task that is performed at Kickstart that is either dangerous or dirty; which is about the only legitimate reason why you would need actual union protection.
Forming a union is in no way a magic panacea for creating a better working environment, no matter how many far left retards try to tell you otherwise.
Re:Well here's a questio: (Score:4, Interesting)
I would assume they want to try to hold management to a 40 hour work week for the employees -- that's likely one of the biggest complaints you'll hear from tech and one which a union *might* be able to do something about. I'm not a labor law attorney so I'm not sure how this will work out in practice.
But yeah, why would tech workers actually *want* to join a union? They typically already make much more than people in other industries, so I'm not too sure that collective bargaining for salary and benefits is going to be very interesting to most people there. And a lot of the political participation that unions do is going to piss off about half the people working at that company -- and now they will get to pay for it against their will.
Some of the other stuff -- "inclusivity," for example -- the union will be powerless to affect. How would they force a company to hired qualified non-white / non-Asian / non-males if such people aren't already available to be hired from the pool in large numbers? Etc.
Unionization in tech sounds like a solution looking for problems to justify its existence.
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Sports also have unions, and I'm sure the athletes in them make way more than even techies do. Basketball players, hockey players, etc., their unions have gone on strike which leads to an abbreviated season.
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The chief benefit I've found after reading over my union contract boils down to an inversion of the consequences of management inaction. In essence:
-If the manager does not respond to a vacation request in a timely manner, consider it approved.
-If the manager does not submit performance reviews on time, consider it a passing grade. This is important because...
-If the employee has no negative performance reviews, they:
--cannot be denied the annual raise
--cannot be fired
--cannot be denied perks (work from h
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I would assume they want to try to hold management to a 40 hour work week for the employees
That likely means timecards and clocking in and clocking out. No thanks.
Re: Well here's a questio: (Score:2)
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Unions are about more than collective bargaining. They provide a forum for employees and can take concerns to management. Remember that HR works in the company's interests, where as the union rep works in yours.
A lot of people seem to be confused about what "inclusivity" is. It's nothing to do with hiring, it's about making sure that e.g. people with disabilities have a voice.
An example of both these things is the union asking for things like adjustable desks and better chairs. If an individual asks for a s
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Before we had unions there weren't even toilets at workplaces, let alone toilet breaks. You RWNJs want to drag us back to those days then fine, but don't expect us to go willingly.
Fucking pull your corporatist head out (Score:2)
Unions act as a pushback against corporate greed. You do know that corporate greed affects workers at all ends of the pay scale, not just those at the bottom, yes? There is a reason why professional athletes, actors, screenwriters and directors are union members, even when they make six or seven figure salaries. It's so they don't get fucked over by those making eight, nine or even ten figures.
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Go read some history, you fucking dipshit.
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There is literately not a single fucking task that is performed at Kickstart that is either dangerous or dirty; which is about the only legitimate reason why you would need actual union protection.
I'm no fan of unions but my god that is wildly off base. In fact I would argue the opposite, dangerous tasks are not the ones that should be defended by a union since they are already defended by the state. Why whine to your colleagues when you can bring in OSHA.
Exclude Me (Score:2, Interesting)
As someone with a disability which lets companies tick off their inclusion and diversity check marks if they hire me, I wouldn't unionize for this. Discrimination is already illegal. Sure it still happens, I've lost multiple jobs due to it, but you end up not wanting to work there anyway. As long as you aren't dirt poor, any organization discriminating against you during the hiring process is a good thing because you won't want to work with those people. Forced inclusion only works over generations, it
Good for them (Score:3)
You can't win by yourself against a mega corp unless you happen to be in the
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If you don't like the enterprise you work for, just leave. Period.
Or better, start your own startup, take risk, spend your money and hire employees. I hope your employees will unionize and probably drive you to bankruptcy.
Quality will start to drop (Score:3)
Best employees will leave and worst ones will stay there because they are protected by the union. I saw this millions times in my career (not just in IT). I'm a freelancer for 9 years now (25 years of experience) and companies contract me to fix the mess of unmotivated "I'm here for to pay/conditions" unionised employees.
Fallout from the gig economy (Score:3)
As economics once again shifts, there are even more people without enough competence to work in that economy so they have to sponge off people who are competent enough to do the work but not smart enough to avoid the leeches.
Youngsters... Sheesh... (Score:2)
Unionizing has never worked in tech. They'll just spin up a new company, license the code & intellectual property, let the shell fold, and your contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.
What you young people should be gunning for is stock options. Sometime in the early 00's they changed the rules with regards to how stock options were accounted for and taxed, and unless you get in at start up time, they've pretty much disappeared. Back in the day, big companies were handing them out to MTS2's...
I'm not surprised by this (Score:2)
Kickstarter's moved from "interesting tech stuff" to "another graphic novel about a gender fluid couple living as elves on mars".
How could they NOT unionize?