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Education

West Virginians Now Say Code School Promising Jobs Was a Fraud (msn.com) 184

Posted by EditorDavid from the angry-in-Appalachia dept.
"Two years after dozens of West Virginians left their jobs to take classes from Mined Minds, a nonprofit that promised to teach them to write computer code, former students have filed a lawsuit claiming the entire operation was a fraud," according to a report: The program promised a better life and room for career advancement, which resonated with people in Appalachia, where career opportunities are limited. According to the New York Times, Mined Minds offered a paid apprenticeship in which students learned to code as they earned $10 an hour... [Students were also told they'd be paid while taking the classes -- which they discovered wasn't true on their first day of class] after many left their jobs to take the 16-week boot camp, which eventually stretched weeks longer than promised.

Many students dropped out. Those who stayed say they were given vague assignments with little instruction and told to "Google it" when they had questions... Only ten students made it to the final weeks of the program, and just one graduated. He now delivers takeout.
The Times reports that the program received a $1.5 million grant from the Appalachian Regional Commission -- though the lawsuit from former students quickly grew to at least 60 plaintiffs. On Twitter this afternoon, one of the program's founders described the Times' story as "mostly false," arguing that it was based on the "same crazy lawsuit from 2017" with "no new developments."

But the Times also reported more complaints from this April at the code school, from employees who said they were fired for offenses like failing to make enough new LinkedIn connections, not submitting their resumes for review, or for failing to read the self-help book The Start-Up of You.
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West Virginians Now Say Code School Promising Jobs Was a Fraud More

West Virginians Now Say Code School Promising Jobs Was a Fraud

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  • They shouldn't worry.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rick Zeman ( 15628 ) on Sunday May 12, 2019 @06:53PM (#58580190)

    ...Trump says there will be coal mining jobs galore for them.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      " Mined Minds "

    • Re:They shouldn't worry.... (Score:5, Funny)

      by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @02:41AM (#58581628)
      It's OK, Betsy DeVos has okayed them so you can be sure they're totally legit.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 )

      ...Trump says there will be coal mining jobs galore for them.

      Give it another 5 years and likely there will be, most people don't understand that if you closure a mine even a strip mine it usually takes 1.5-5 years to "re-certify" it back into operation. Problem though, even when you try to stop the bleeding in progress it keeps going on for awhile. Happens in every industry. Just like what happened with NAFTA. Manufacturing plants moved to Mexico from Canada and the US, and it was ~15 years of bleeding jobs as more companies closed up every year unable to compet

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 )

        ...Trump says there will be coal mining jobs galore for them.

        Give it another 5 years and likely there will be

        Oh please, get a grip. Coal is OVER in this country and it's never coming back. It's too expensive, too destructive to the environment, and has ZERO long-term future.

        Coal mining and production has been dropping for decades and nothing is going to change that. No amount of lies by you or President Temper-Tantrum is going to reverse the death of coal as an energy source.

    • Vain hope is better than no hope. If Democrats stop treating miners in Appalachia as "excess people" and come up with a solution, then Trump wouldn't have such a huge political clientele in there. But no, all they say to those miners is "A Startup is You", aka "pull yourself up by the bootstraps", while at the same time taxing them to fund "social programs" for illegal immigrants.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        First of all, miners in Appalachia aren't funding anything for anyone. Red states consistently receive way more in federal funding than their taxes supply. In reality, the blue states are funding the red ones.

        Secondly, it's the rightwing that consistently refers to themselves as "real Americans" and treat anyone on the coasts as if they are somehow not. So if anyone is treating another like "excess people" it's the right.

    • Obama eliminated those jobs.

    • ...Trump says there will be coal mining jobs galore for them.

      Yep, another lie of Trump's that people fell for. Coal is OVER in this country and it's never coming back. It's too expensive, too destructive to the environment, and has ZERO long-term future.

      Coal mining and production has been dropping for decades and nothing is going to change that. No amount of lies by an ignorant president is going to reverse the death of coal as an energy source.

      It's no different than the decline in buggy-whip manufacturing that occurred when automobiles started appearing.

      Their first

  • Seek greener pastures (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    For so many West Virginians, if they want to improve their conditions, the only way to do this is to leave the state.

  • Silicon Valley Class System (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    No way is some kid with a hick accent and (god forbid) a degree from some Southern university getting past their first phone interview for a tech firm. They will always be "flyover" as far as Silicon Valley is concerned, regardless of talent or merit.

    Welcome to the iClass system. Should have gone to an Ivy League and learned to speak with the right accent.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tomhath ( 637240 )
      No way that kid would move to Silicon Valley when better jobs and better lifestyle is right in their backyard in Research Triangle [wraltechwire.com]

  • Non profit without a 501c3 result? (Score:3)

    by fred911 ( 83970 ) on Sunday May 12, 2019 @07:37PM (#58580376) Journal

    And a dead website. Here's the NYT article mentioned in the post..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0... [nytimes.com]

  • damage = loss of mind share (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    the real damage is that if a legitimate/genuine operation did try to offer something similar, they'd be run out of town - this culture of over-promising and swindling needs to be addressed somehow.

  • That some school promising jobs would be connected with fraud.

    I'd almost be inclined to call the tuition a tax on the stupid.

    • Let's not configure stupidity with ignorance. Stupid choice, for sure. But one likely based on ignorance and misplaced trust.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mark-t ( 151149 )

        I said "almost"... although yeah, technically you are correct.

        As I remarked elsewhere, legitimate institutions with a job placement program for people who successfully complete their program or area of study will only ever say that they have a certain historic level of success with job placement, and I know of at least one which even said that they aren't even legally allowed to say that they can actually guarantee a job, although in the next breath they still boasted a 95% successful placement. This fi

  • I'm not sure you can really teach someone programming. If someone really want's to learn how to code, they can just do it on their own. Download the JRE and just figure things out little-by-little. They have to want to learn it. Read stuff on the Web. And actually yes, "Google it". Last I checked, they don't teach programming in College. If you're a compsci major, you're just expected to know how to code already. So every serious coder is pretty much self-taught. Yeah, it might be nice to have some place to

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by jrbrtsn ( 103896 )

      I agree with your comment. Everything you need to learn programming is readily available on the Web, including reams of source code from open source projects. The real issue is, given modern software tools, there is little need for "warm body" coders who do not also understand computer science. Gaining a working understanding of computer science is an enormous endeavor, and no 16 week boot camp is going to help much. If you did not demonstrate aptitude for math and science in school, your chances as a c

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cederic ( 9623 )

        The real issue is, given modern software tools, there is little need for "warm body" coders who do not also understand computer science.

        What the fuck? 99% of programming jobs need little to no computer science knowledge.

        Gaining a working understanding of computer science is an enormous endeavor,

        Gaining enough computer science for a successful career as a software engineer however takes a few evenings reading shit online.

        Most jobs don't involve devising new complex algorithms or redesigning compilers.

        There are jobs that have strong requirements in mathematics and applied programming, but things like genuine data science jobs are still a miniscule fraction of the programming roles out there.

    • Google, luxury!

      When I was a kid, we learned to code from a 6502 'programming manual' (basically a list of opcodes)...

      If you tell that to kids today, they won't believe you.

      You can spot the possible future coder young. They work puzzles, not so much 1000 piece puzzles, logic puzzles, chinese wood block, rubiks etc.

      • Well,
        assembly is relatively easy. How else would you learn assembly as by a book with a list of the op codes?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Nice. We just had datasheets, and you had to order them. They took three weeks to arrive. Before you could actually program you had to get the damned clock circuit to behave well enough that the processor would deign to operate, then you had to find one of those precision screwdrivers small enough to flip the DIP switches.

        Could be worse though. My parents learned to program by punching cards and mailing them off to the nearest university with a computer. They'd get the syntax error back, also by mail.

  • Had a bunch of ex-Miners in my city (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday May 12, 2019 @09:06PM (#58580752)
    put through IT programs when the mines closed after cheap Chinese metals put 'em out of business. Only one actually went into IT ( a level 1 help desk job paying 1/4 what he used to earn) and he eventually became a cable TV installer.

    It's not that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, it's why would you? They guys I knew went through even crappier programs than this. And even if you could, can you work 'em 80 hours a week for 40 hours of Salary like you can with the H1-Bs?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The New Green Deal would be much better for them. Local manufacturing and installation jobs, decently paid, not easy to export or replace with H1-B.

      • Bernie's plan explicitly excludes companies that outsource or insource from gov't contracts. He's been on the campaign trail for it. First you pull gov't contracts from companies like GM that outsource jobs and then you close the loop hole that lets gov't agencies buy from our "Allies". Buy American or no contracts for you.

    • And even if you could, can you work 'em 80 hours a week for 40 hours of Salary like you can with the H1-Bs?

      So to fight H1Bs you prefer ... the open borders party?

      • The majority of the Democratic party, the ones that aren't bought and paid for like her and Joe Biden, oppose open borders but support immigration.

        Look, we need immigration. Otherwise we'll go the way of Japan. Fact is industrialized nations don't have enough kids to maintain the population much less grow it. And without growth your 401k comes to a screeching halt.

        What we need is social programs and guarantees so that the wealth generated by those immigrants gets passed around to everyone. Right now

  • Fraud? Sounds like every government jobs program ever.

  • To be fair (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Google it" is actually a pretty common method of solving a lot of programming questions. I have long since lost count of the number of times I've googled something when I was stuck and found an example bit of code on some forum or another that I then adapted.

    In no way am I defending any other part of this operation, which does indeed sound like a scam.

    • Re:To be fair (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:52AM (#58582172)

      "Google it" is a solution when you already know what you're doing and are trying to find what API call is responsible for what you have in mind.

      It's a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE thing to suggest to someone who does NOT know what they're doing yet. Because here's what's going to happen: They will google their question, they will find some code (that they can't even determine whether it does what they want or whether the person who wrote it knows just barely more than they do, i.e. instead of jack shit all just shit all), they will copy that code and fiddle around with it until it does what they want. Or at least until the 3 cases they try work, rest assured they won't try edge cases or even consider security. And how could they, they don't even know what to look for.

      PLEASE don't tell someone who has barely an idea what coding is about to "google it"!

      • "Google it" is a solution when you already know what you're doing and are trying to find what API call is responsible for what you have in mind.

        I agree with that but would like to remind you that exactly may end up being 80% of your job as a professional. Finding out how basic things like data access or keyboard/mouse IO or user interface buttons are handled in the framework that someone decided earlier to use in the project you are in this month.

        And the better you get at that, the more often you'll be put into different project teams to put out the current fire....

        • I'm all for it. I call that "total job security".

          Yes, I'm in IT security and part of my job is finding security flaws in software, why do you ask?

  • Unless you are genuinely interested ... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:49AM (#58581362)

    ... you shouldn't seek to get a coding job. Yeah, it's good money, but so is being a good plumber. And those are way more useful to society most of the time.

    None the less, I do hope this pseudo training joint gets sued for fraud. We have this type of shop in Germany too and their output of useful coders is limited to those who were passionate about it in the first place.

  • Stop with these bullshit programs! (Score:3)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:05AM (#58582222)

    Programming isn't business administration. Shoveling bullshit into heads is not going to cut it. It's not even going to make you a bad programmer, it's not going to accomplish ANYTHING.

    If you only want code monkeys, go ahead. Not that it will accomplish much because code monkeys are already a dime a dozen and I foresee that by 2030 there is no use for them anymore because we already see the onset of programming tools that abstract away the coding part to the point where automatic code creation has in some areas become a reality. If anything, what we need is people who are able to write those code creators and optimize the code. Something that these "learn programming in 16 weeks" people will not be able to because that requires you to understand the math behind it and know that the Big O-Notation isn't some sort of porn grading scheme.

    There is a reason why every computer science course I know starts with the assumption that you CAN actually write code. It's the foundation. Not the end result. And that foundation is something you can very easily build yourself, provided you have the interest.

    And if you don't, what the hell are you doing here? If you're in it for the money, forget it. First, if you only care about money, there's other areas that are FAR better paid (try finance and administration) and second, to get paid (fairly) big bucks in this area, you have to be good. Really, really good. And that in turn requires you to, you guessed it, have the interest and aptitude.

    • I get paid for coding and have for quite some time. There are some that make more, but there are a heck of lot that make less.

      Did you ever write any programs, just for yourself, without any prospect of payment, even before you ever took any computer courses? If not, you might not be a coder.

      Do you dread the possibility of being propelled up into management, where you will have little or any time to get your hands dirty with actual coding, even if it means a bit more money? If not, you might not be a c

      • A very good analysis.

        When I switched to IT security, the one thing I missed the most is that I can't no longer fix things. My job now is to find the flaws and then hand them back to others to fix them. This was what turned me off of IT administration too, since I was supposed to hire people to fix stuff instead of doing it.

        That really sucks. It just doesn't feel right when you know what's wrong, know what you'd have to do to fix it and not be allowed to fix the damn thing.

        My solution was that I now develop

  • I sounds like the lawyers have swooped in to clean up the mess.

  • West Virginians Now Say Code School Promising Jobs Was a Fraud

    I saw this, and it hurts me deeply that it happened. For-profit vocational schools are a racket, an unregulated syndicate that prey on the needy.

    There, I said it. Someone has to. This country has a fucked-up way of treating vocational education, leaving it wide open for predators to do their thing.

    Now, code academies work. I've seen it happen. But it does require some conditions. Typically, it is someone that already posses a 2 or 4 year college degree doing a transition into coding. A degree is needed

  • get out of poverty and get ahead, they would push funding towards skilled trades programs and apprenticeships. Single-headed households holding waiting jobs or other sub-minimum wage work would particularly benefit, along with chronically unemployed like ex-miners. Welding, plumbing, electricians, construction, painting, etc. all are in high demand and pay solid middle-class salaries. People can work as an apprentice and then go into business themselves if they'd like, putting them in control of their fu
  • Age discrimination is a huge problem that is never talked about, I wonder how old these students were? If the were older, companies don't hire older workers.

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