Elon Musk's Boring Company Wins Contract To Build Las Vegas Tunnel (wired.com) 116
Elon Musk's Boring Company now has a paying customer. "Late Wednesday, the board of directors of the Las Vegas Conventions and Visitors Authority voted to grant a $48,675,000 contract to the Boring Company to build a 0.83-mile, three-station version of the company's Loop mass-transit system inside of Vegas' sprawling, revamped convention center, which is currently under construction," reports Wired. From the report: As previously outlined by BoCo, the Loop system is made up of 8- to 16-passenger battery-powered autonomous electric vehicles, built to shoot people from station to station at speeds of up to 150 mph. This Las Vegas system is slated to transport at least 4,400 passengers per hour between the center's new exhibit and south halls, about a 20-minute walk by foot. The Boring Company has also pledged to build an escalator or elevator system for each of the three stations, pedestrian entrances and exits, tunnel lighting, power and video surveillance systems, a control room, and cell phone, Wi-Fi, intercom, and ventilation systems. The convention center hopes to time the opening of the Loop with the 2021 Consumer Electronics Show.
Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman was the only board member to vote against granting the Boring Company its bid. During the bidding process, Goodman had asked fellow board members to consider a more expensive proposal from another company, Doppelmayr. "Doppelmayr has been in existence for 125 years," Goodman wrote in a letter, according to the Las Vegas Sun. "They already have projects here that are operating successfully. The Boring Co. is 3 years old and has yet to deliver a final package on anything." Goodman's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman was the only board member to vote against granting the Boring Company its bid. During the bidding process, Goodman had asked fellow board members to consider a more expensive proposal from another company, Doppelmayr. "Doppelmayr has been in existence for 125 years," Goodman wrote in a letter, according to the Las Vegas Sun. "They already have projects here that are operating successfully. The Boring Co. is 3 years old and has yet to deliver a final package on anything." Goodman's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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Christ that was a lot of typing, but as of yet, no indictments, no convictions, nothing - except accusations of crimes committed in "plain sight" that no one is willing to prosecute despite wide-spread dislike for the man and his administration.
Isn't that amazing?
Mueller found no evidence that ANY AMERICAN aided (colluded) with the Russians in their attempts to interfere with the 2016 election - and he spent 2 years looking with an unlimited budget and got access to everything he asked for. Democrats are br
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He can't be prosecuted WHILE IN OFFICE, says Bob Mueller... and Bob Mueller didn't misspeak.
A sitting President heads up the federal agency tasked with prosecuting federal charged, the Department of Justice.
A sitting President has the absolute authority to self-pardon.
The Congress can unseat a President with 2/3rds of House AND Senate voting to do so.
An unseated President can be prosecuted without fear of self-pardon.
It makes no sense to attempt to prosecute a President while in office.
Still, the first step is evidence of a crime, not a baseless claim of a crime having been committed and then a se
Re:hmm (Score:5, Funny)
$48,675,000 contract to build a 0.83-mile [tunnel]
Nearly 50 million dollars to build a 1,300 metre tunnel? How are they digging this, by having dentists pick the dirt out with dental picks, one gram at a time?
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Is there really a need for the third station? The entire run is under a mile, how fast can the thing go if it has to make a stop a half-mile after It starts?
As long as the $48M is from private investors, I don't care - but this is a HUGE WASTE of money IMHO.
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Have you even tried to walk around in Nevada during a summer afternoon? There was a reason cowboys wore Stetson hats.
The alternative proposal was $215M (Score:3)
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So... you are saying that Las Vegas is building an extravagant, showy structure?! I am shocked at this turn of events!
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And I actually know of an underground mass transit system of 1.3 km length: Dorfbahn Serfaus [wikipedia.org], which has four stations.
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To be fair, they moved 208,618,471 grams of rock.
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Re:Valid point ... (Score:5, Informative)
That's essentially how the contract is written. Boring Co only gets paid if they complete the tunnel and get it certified for use by a deadline.
It's still a risk for Las Vegas, though. They won't lose money directly, but they could lose the economic benefit of having the completed transportation system while waiting years more for somebody else to build it. It's a calculated risk to possibly save a lot of money.
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Recall the battery super pack deployment in Australia that NOBODY thought would ever get done in time for Tesla to get paid for. Yeah, Musk has a track record of crushing everyone's expectations.
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Recall the battery super pack deployment in Australia that NOBODY thought would ever get done in time for Tesla to get paid for. Yeah, Musk has a track record of crushing everyone's expectations.
No. Nobody believed his artificial deadline of a year.
He didn't make his deadline either. From the time of the first shipment to operation was under a year, but that was closer to a year after he originally said he would be done by. Even then, he didn't use his own products and had to buy out large amounts of batteries. The project was intended to be impressive because of his gigafactory. Instead it was a large but industry standard install of panasonic batteries.
None of that had anything to do with a deadl
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Yeah he did a good job there, though that company had a track record of producing batteries and power control tech. Personally I wouldn't gamble my money on this project. On the other hand it's Vegas so gambling is the generally accepted thing to do. Since it's not my money I get to win either way. If he succeeds, then YAY cool tech! If he fails, I get to enjoy a supreme sense of smugness over the people who chose his company.
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In both good and bad ways. Musk's great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!
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It's also worth remembering he doesn't always succeed. But this is Las Vegas, and maybe they thought it was worth the gamble.
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Meh, given that:
I mean, except for the claimed speeds, this is a glorified shuttle bus.
8-16 people at a time is not a 'completed transportation system', it's a marketing gimmick.
At the claimed speeds, I e
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Why would it? A track system a hundred or even many hundreds of miles long would give plenty of room to speed up and slow down at a gentle inclined rate.
The proposed tunnel is 0.83 miles according to the article, and "shoot people from station to station at speeds of up to 150 mph.", and it's three stations. So assuming two of the stations aren't right next to each other, you have more like 0.4 miles to accelerate to 150 then brake. So I doubt it's going to be that comfortable. Of course the article could just be buying into hype rather than reality of how it'll run. I really can't see how the comparison made is for a 20 minute walk. Maybe if you do the
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Re: Valid point ... (Score:2)
At the claimed speeds, I expect a lot of injuries to people as they get thrown around the cabin.
Hey, Shorts... with friends like these, who needs enemies, eh?! ;)
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It's still a risk for Las Vegas, though. They won't lose money directly, but they could lose the economic benefit of having the completed transportation system while waiting years more for somebody else to build it. It's a calculated risk to possibly save a lot of money.
It's a one mile transit system that costs $48M.What is the "economic benefit" they might lose out on if they didn't have this one-mile transit system in-place?
Re: Valid point ... (Score:5, Informative)
Now that spacex has been caught forging documents
Literally fake news, a company that supplied parts to SpaceX falsified the Q&A documents that they gave SpaceX certifying the specs. That company is now out of business, and the Q&A person who forged the documents is facing up to 10 years in jail.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/penn-yan-man-charged-falsifying-inspection-reports-space-parts
an internal audit by SQA Services, Inc. (SQA), at the direction of SpaceX, revealed multiple falsified source inspection reports and non-destructive testing (NDT) certifications from PMI Industries, LLC
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Are they going to name it after MacGyver?
Not valid point (Score:4, Informative)
You know, lack of having ever actually done anything like this is definitely a factor.
Except the boring company has - they have completed a mile long tunnel under LA (which has much more varied tunneling conditions) and driven a car through it.
The Las Vegas tunnel would be about the same distance (20 minutes walking is around a mile). So the only thing that the Boring company has not already done before is produce reliable electric vehicles to go in the tunnel(s)... except that Tesla has been producing electric cars for a while, so really even that part is without much risk.
This is also the first "real" boring company tunnel so you know they are not going to run over cost on this one and do everything they can to deliver reliable transport.
There is literally no substantial downside and when it works, will greatly expand the markets interested in cheaper Boring Company tunnels.
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"They" have completed something that miners in the 17th century could do with hammers and pick-axes. And to get there "they" bought all the technology from companies that have been in this field for decades.
What "they" have not completed is a structure that is actually in use by a customer that fulfills some reasonable safety requirements.
It does meet requirements. (Score:2)
What "they" have not completed is a structure that is actually in use by a customer that fulfills some reasonable safety requirements.
In what way does the LA tunnel fail to meet that requirement? Remember that Tesla has been sending members of the public through it, it's just not generally open yet. They would not do so without the tunnel fulfilling reasonable safety requirements.
The tunnel had all of the cabling and lighting a "real" tunnel would have.
Remember also tunnels are much safer during an earthq
Re:It does meet requirements. (Score:5, Interesting)
Ok, I never knew that. So I had to go look that up.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/Status/Blog/tunnels-and-earthquakes/ [wa.gov]
Beyond these generally earthquake-resistant traits, the SR 99 tunnel has been specifically designed to withstand a 9.0 magnitude earthquake. This magnitude earthquake only occurs every 2,500 years on average.
The design team had to ensure the tunnel could remain watertight after a seismic event to allow for the safe evacuation of people. Flexible joints between all component parts can accommodate an earthquakeâ(TM)s movements, and every piece of equipment to be installed in the tunnel has undergone seismic analysis.
Never knew that before, that's really cool. Thank you for that information.
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Fractions of people (Score:2)
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Re: Fractions of people (Score:1)
2/9ths of one person could very well be on the train at that second, while the other 7/9th is still boarding the train, while it's stationary at the platform. No proportion of a person should be boarding moving trains, especially at those speeds!
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It's amazing. More than $48 million for this thing. I'm not sure whether this is better or worse than the Detroit Mugger Mover [wikipedia.org] that sucked a lot of taxpayer dollars out of the rest of the state of Michigan to subsidize Detroit's mass transit. The latest numbers I saw had a cost of $4.26 per passenger, with the price to ride just $0.75.
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Perhaps you missed this tidbit: "autonomous electric vehicles, built to shoot people..." It's one solution to overpopulation, but it's surprising it's not a military contract.
Re:Hold on to your seats (Score:4, Informative)
Good mayor for pointing out that Musk hasn't had a success since PayPal was taken out of his hands.
SpaceX? I assume you're at least semi-serious because you're not posting as AC.
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SpaceX is losing money, in the true Musk tradition
https://seekingalpha.com/amp/a... [seekingalpha.com]
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doesn't change the fact it's true. not making money, a money sinkhole. That's what Musk makes, money sinkholes.
Also, he's not an inventor. Never invented anything.
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doesn't change the fact it's true. not making money, a money sinkhole. That's what Musk makes, money sinkholes.
Also, he's not an inventor. Never invented anything.
I don't think you have really thought about what a successful launch services provider looks like. Because SpaceX are a veritable juggernaut tearing through the industry and the only reason they are not producing a profit is because they did not stop at dominating the medium lift market, they have moved into the heavy lift market (highest operational capacity) and super heavy lift (beginning flight tests with the next gen engine).
SpaceX have all the cards to move the market the way they want, and their app
Re: Hold on to your seats (Score:5, Insightful)
You see, adults actually care about real things when they measure success.
You mean like the fact that last year SpaceX carried out 19% of all the space launches [spacelaunchreport.com] in the world with no failures? That sort of "real thing"? (It was 20% with no failures in 2017.)
Or the fact that the Falcon series is also now the world's most reliable launch system? That sort of "measure of success"?
Re: Hold on to your seats (Score:2)
A tunnel and high speed train for six blocks, just what kind of lard ass pansy needs that? What a joke. You could buy a fleet of those electric carts the 400 lbs. crack whores at Walmart use to get their orange drink and dingdongs with food sta.ls for a tiny fraction of the cost.
Re: Hold on to your seats (Score:2)
Nope, guess again. https://www.google.com/url?sa=... [google.com]
Oh, Elon... there you go again (Score:2)
The summary leaves out this gem:
Tunnel engineering experts have cast doubt on the Boring Company’s ambitious plans. Musk, who has made destroying traffic congestion one of his (many) missions, aims to speed up tunnel boring by a factor of 10 and reduce costs by a factor of 15
Magic pixie dust not included, but for a small additional fee can be delivered on demand in a fully self-driving $35,000 Model 3.
Re:Oh, Elon... there you go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Musk, who has made destroying traffic congestion one of his (many) missions, aims to speed up tunnel boring by a factor of 10 and reduce costs by a factor of 15
Magic pixie dust not included, but for a small additional fee can be delivered on demand in a fully self-driving $35,000 Model 3.
They're boring this tunnel for $48 million. It should be fairly obvious neither of those factors applies yet. It's a goal, not an instantly summoned reality, springing fully formed from the forehead of Musk. Why do his detractors always attribute Zeus-like powers to him, then act disappointed when he's not a god? Why has ambition become a dirty word? How do you expect anything to improve unless there's a goal? What's wrong with trying to IMPROVE SHIT that you hate it so much?
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They're boring this tunnel for $48 million. It should be fairly obvious neither of those factors applies yet.
As compared to what? That $48MM bid clearly came in low enough that Vegas spurned the other company that's actually been in business for 100+ years and actually has proven track record of successfully doing this sort of project.
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As compared to what? That $48MM bid clearly came in low enough that Vegas spurned the other company that's actually been in business for 100+ years and actually has proven track record of successfully doing this sort of project.
Thing is in civil engineering it's never a bad idea go go for the lowest bidder rather than the company who provably knows what they're doing. Nothing ever went wrong doing that.
Re:Oh, Elon... there you go again (Score:5, Interesting)
I would suggest looking into some trade rags for quotes from TBM manufacturers, talking about the benefits of exactly what Musk mentioned when he started The Boring Company. Higher power motors, higher voltages, and the real gem: deep learning AI’s to work with geological data in real time. I almost killed my keyboard spitting out my coffee.
Just power and more digital control is expected to help speed things up by as much as 3x; advanced materials could potentially double from there. Beyond that, maintenance and geology-specific wear-optimized control algorithms are low hanging fruit.
The difference between Musk and other boring manufacturers is that the others see greater potential in larger diameter bores rather than faster per-mile tunneling. Jury is still out on that one, but I think it is a case of everybody can win.
Good practice. (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't say I disagree with the lone holdout - this is going to be a transformative, leap of faith moment for Boring. Can they go from proof-of-concept to the real thing, without it becoming a disaster.
But what is Vegas for, if not a spectacle? Worst-case scenario they probably at least have the tunnels dug for someone else to come and make work properly, and much of the money left still unpaid.
And a great chance for Boring to come up and face real challenges. You know Musk has got to be eyeing them for offworld purposes. If they can make it work, without real problems developing down the line, then they're in a much stronger position to dig Mars colony-tunnels. An airtight subway tunnel would make a heck of a safe and predictable habitat for early development, and if lava tubes and chambers on Mars and the moon got anywhere near as enormous as we have reason to believe they might have, then there's a ready-made massive open areas underground just waiting for us to come reinforce and seal them once we're ready. Made all the more appealing by a smooth, efficient tunnel network connecting key spots underground and on the surface.
I think the trouble is (Score:3)
Musk has dug one very small, very useless tunnel. And it's not like digging tunnels for transportation is anything new. I don't see anything to indicate he's got some new tech. Are there patents? Trade secrets? There's better posts on old threads about Boring but the long and short is it's pretty clear he can't do anything but dig a small tunnel.
This will be a boondogle, which in better economic times we'd ignore but the economy sucks for everyone but the top 20%, and tho
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Musk has dug one very small, very useless tunnel.
He also dug it at a slower rate and higher cost than the company that previously used the exact same machine digging in much harder ground.
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This will be a boondogle, which in better economic times we'd ignore but the economy sucks for everyone but the top 20%, and those guys aren't going to pay for this, it'll come out of the budgets for services to the bottom 20% like it always does...
Except that nothing about this is a boondoggle because they don't receive any money from the get go.
Quoting the fucking article:
According to the contract, the company would receive just over half of its payment after construction is completed, 70 percent after testing and commissioning, and the full payment only after it demonstrates it can daily move at least 4,400 people each hour.
On top of that they have to take out a payment recovery bond which will payback the convention center if they don't complete the project AND they will have to spend $1.6M to close and secure any work they've done. This is almost exactly like the Australia grid battery system bet that Tesla made over a year ago.
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I don't know, mass transit by underground drag racer? I could see it catching on...
In all seriousness though - no, you're not going to get high speeds in a short tunnel. But make a longer tunnel and the speed comes almost for free, assuming your tunnel is straight and smooth enough, and can survive the slightly different stresses of high-speed transport.
All the infrastructure though - stations, surface access, efficient un/loading, power and environmental systems, automated car control - all of that is ba
Oh goody! (Score:2)
Crazy people digging holes in the desert...
Wait, this isn't a return to the days of "the boys" running Vegas is it?
Of course they picked him... (Score:4, Funny)
It's Vegas! You are *supposed* to gamble on untested infrastructure.
Monorail (Score:4, Insightful)
I just have to laugh at this (Score:2)
0.83 miles, three stations? (Score:2)
This seems way too short - 0.83m is next to nothing. Hell, most Europeans walk that far to get to the train station every morning (I do - and it takes me 15-20 minutes).
They're proposing 3 stations on that distance, so let's say the third station is roughly in the middle. That means you've got 0.4 miles to accelerate and to decelerate. You're going to need to recover as much of the acceleration energy in the deceleration because you're going to have to do it all over again in a moment to go the second half
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imo it's just an exhibit. It isn't really that useful but it's cool and since it's going to be built by a tech darling people at CES will all want to take a ride. If there's stuff on either end, food courts, exhibits that have entrance fees etc, it's another opportunity to shake some more money out of everyone that goes to a convention.
Probably why Boring company underbid too, because they both need and understand the need for publicity/advertising. The 125 yr old company is well known and already has a rep