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Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel Oppose Proposed Tariffs on Laptops, Tablets (reuters.com) 170

Posted by msmash from the hurting-the-bottom-line dept.
Dell, HP, Microsoft and Intel have opposed U.S. President Donald Trump's proposal to include laptop computers and tablets among the Chinese goods targeted for tariffs. From a report: Dell, HP and Microsoft, which together account for 52% of the notebooks and detachable tablets sold in the United States, said the proposed tariffs would increase the cost of laptops in the country. The move would hurt consumers and the industry, and would not address the Chinese trade practices that the Trump administration's office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) seeks to remedy, the four companies said in a joint statement posted online. [...] In a separate statement, Microsoft, along with video game makers Nintendo of America and Sony Interactive Entertainment said the tariffs on video game consoles could stifle innovation, hurt consumers and put thousands of jobs at risk.
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Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel Oppose Proposed Tariffs on Laptops, Tablets More

Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel Oppose Proposed Tariffs on Laptops, Tablets

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  • Bad news guys: if you still expect laptops to be a growth market with a high margin, you need to update your business model. They haven't been for a decade now.

    I'm not saying the tariffs are a good idea (they're not) but increasing the cost of laptops and tablets is going to be only a fairly minor speed bump for most people, who are going to get one if they need one and won't if they don't. This would be a lot more troublesome if the market wasn't already saturated.

    • well it's time to make them in the USA! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Thursday June 20, 2019 @11:27AM (#58793804)

      well it's time to make them in the USA!

      • That underscores the false dichotomy thinking of pro-tariff arguments. If tariffs are leveled against X country then manufacturing/growing will shift to the US. The fact that Y country will be used instead of the US isn’t entertained. Then it will be tariffs against Y country, then Z country, then whoever without understanding the underlying reasons. D

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Shotgun ( 30919 )

          What about the situation where the only goal of the tariff is to shift the commerce AWAY from X country, because they are a bad actor? We don't mind dealing with Y country at all and their products are just as cheap?

          • So the goal of tariff isn’t to help US businesses which undermines the OP’s desire to have more businesses based in the US. The goal isn’t to help consumers as they may have to pay more. It comes from the mentality that “Everyone must love for me to win.”
      • I'm not sure that the laptop industry is the posterchild for the argument. Maybe find something with more profit in it. Or was the intention to make profit by overcharging Americans for stuff available to the rest of the world for less ?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dbialac ( 320955 )

        Yep. Allow me to break out the world's smallest violin for all of the computer manufacturers who might have to fathom making their computers in the US again.

    • Bad news guys: if you still expect laptops to be a growth market with a high margin, you need to update your business model. They haven't been for a decade now.

      I'm not saying the tariffs are a good idea (they're not) but increasing the cost of laptops and tablets is going to be only a fairly minor speed bump for most people, who are going to get one if they need one and won't if they don't. This would be a lot more troublesome if the market wasn't already saturated.

      That the laptops became a commodity, with low margin, is a very good thing for the consumers. The saturated market too.

    • Bad news guys: if you still expect laptops to be a growth market with a high margin, you need to update your business model. They haven't been for a decade now.

      I'm not saying the tariffs are a good idea (they're not) but increasing the cost of laptops and tablets is going to be only a fairly minor speed bump for most people, who are going to get one if they need one and won't if they don't. This would be a lot more troublesome if the market wasn't already saturated.

      Precisely! Also, if you don't want laptops to be tariffed, build them either in the US, or in a country w/ whom the US doesn't have frosty trade relations. Like Taiwan, which is what it was before things started moving more to China.

      As it is, there is a lot less competition in this market: I recall the days in the 90s when there were about a hundred or so PC companies: that market shrunk down to effectively 3 companies today - HP, Dell and Acer. So you already have low competition: there's no need for

  • Shocking! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Thursday June 20, 2019 @10:56AM (#58793632)

    Companies oppose taxes on products that embed their products.

    I know, I'm surprised.

    • Companies oppose taxes on products that embed their products.

      I know, I'm surprised.

      Meh. The west has been paying a Microsoft tax on every laptop and desktop sold since the mid-nineties at least. Maybe if people got to deduct the cost of Windows off of a laptop at the till point (and consequently did not have to pay for an MS OS just to install Linux later) I'd feel different.

      Turnabout is fair play.

  • But that is never the answer for people from India. Thank you for calling India... This is Bob from West Texas...

    • I'm going to start a factory for building laptops in the USA. We probably will go out of business when the next administration gets rid of the Trump tariffs. Would you like to invest in my factory?

      ...see how that works now?

    • Almost nothing is 100% built in the US anymore. You may want that to change but tariffs won't actually cause this to change.

  • Dell, HP and friends are making (for the most part) a very low margin product with a limited potential for growth. The hype of PCs being dead is overrated in my opinion, but it's certainly not going to be something companies want to invest a lot of money in. Consumers have moved on to phones and tablets mostly. At this point the market for PCs is split -- ultra-cheap garbage at the low end produced for the absolute lowest amount of money (the Best Buy consumer junk) and a premium line where they're still ab

  • Robin Williams: Good Morning, Vietnam! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Thursday June 20, 2019 @11:24AM (#58793784)

    Companies will be looking for cheap labor in other South East Asian countries.

    The former East Germany had very good relations with Vietnam, and many folks from Vietnam came there to work. A machinist from the former East Germany told me that the Vietnamese workers excelled in small, precision work.

    Sounds like a good fit.

  • Time to donate (Score:1, Interesting)

    by spinitch ( 1033676 )
    Kick those campaign contributions in high gear. Ironically this could extend life of devices To raise beyond economic repair threshold. Spin, Trump showing concern for environment? Thoug improving computing power arguably also good for economy. Reduce prices of used devices for lower income users. Supply chains take time to change. Tariffs a very blunt tool.

    • Kick those campaign contributions in high gear.

      Seriously. The hidden cost of sending all your manufacturing overseas is supporting the politicians who favor free trade. Time to open up your pocketbooks, Dell, HP, Microsoft, Intel, and write some checks with lots of 0s to the DNC.

  • To establish a new manufacturing presence somewhere not in china. These companies have the resources to do it, if not for that shareholder greed getting in the way (which is what caused this whole mess to begin with).

    • Why would they do that for a low to zero growth product? What they'll do is pass the tariff off to American consumers. In the end, consumers always pay the tariffs. You might as well just raise income tax. It would be cheaper to administer and have the same effect.

      • What they'll do is pass the tariff off to American consumers.

        Then the tariffs are not high enough. It should be so high that there is no way to sustain business by passing the buck.

      • You might as well just raise income tax. It would be cheaper to administer and have the same effect.

        It would also be more fair, since income taxes tax lower earners at proportionally lower percentages, and allow for deductions. Consumption taxes (which is what tariffs ultimately are) hit lower income earners the hardest, since you're essentially taxing someone who makes minimum wage at the same percentage rate as billionaire.

  • Why are Dems opposed to tariffs? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Thursday June 20, 2019 @12:09PM (#58794032)

    Tariffs are basically flat taxes on the rich and wealthy corporations, you could even say a federal sale tax on imports.

    I agree taxes aren't good on the economy in general, Trumps tax cuts increased the tax revenue after all, but Dems have to be honest and apply this to the entirety of the tax code.

    Either you're against taxes and tariffs or you're for taxes and tariffs. You can't have a platform that wants to reduce taxes on the poor (domestic income tax) and raise taxes on the rich/corporations and then totally oppose the President when he implements a version of your platform. Now we have Dems like Biden running on raising domestic taxes again (reversing the tax cut) and eliminating tariffs.

    • I agree taxes aren't good on the economy in general, Trumps tax cuts increased the tax revenue after all...

      Because they weren't cuts you blithering idiot. They were increases. Trump raised taxes on individuals and only lowered them on corporations and rich people who get most of their money from non-earned income. Yeah, tax revenue increased. Of course it did. Federal taxes are higher.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      Tariffs are basically flat taxes on the rich and wealthy corporations, you could even say a federal sale tax on imports.

      Here it is again, folks. Tariffs are taxes on the rich and wealthy, not you, so don't worry. When we argue that every other business tax is really a tax on consumers, because consumers pay the cost in the end, we don't mean tariffs. Tariffs are magically different because we want to impose those taxes -- they let the domestic businesses that we own raise prices with the reduced competit

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        That's exactly my point though. The 'rich and powerful corporations' are those that sell you stuff for cheap and give you jobs therefore increasing your wealth and eliminating poverty in the US since the early 20th century.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

          It's not remotely your point.

          Either you're against taxes and tariffs or you're for taxes and tariffs. You can't have a platform that wants to reduce taxes on the poor (domestic income tax) and raise taxes on the rich/corporations and then totally oppose the President when he implements a version of your platform.

          Yes, I can. Tariffs are, like sales taxes, regressive. They apply to everything, discretionary and non-discretionary, and with respect to businesses, apply to many of inputs whether the business c

    • You can't have a platform that wants to reduce taxes on the poor (domestic income tax) and raise taxes on the rich/corporations and then totally oppose the President when he implements a version of your platform.

      Most of us on the left-ish side want to see the wealthy stop weaseling out of the debt they owe back to the society which enabled them to become wealthy in the first place. It's a bit of a lofty goal, because the wealthy understand this and spend lots of money (because it's still cheaper than being taxed at a higher rate, read up on the Koch brothers sometime) to convince the general public that policy which favors them, is good for everyone.

      Tariffs don't target the wealthy - they get passed on as a consum

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        Tariffs target corporations that buy large quantities of steel and other resources from China. That's by definition the rich investors and their wealthy corporations.

        Any taxes on the rich and corporations will get passed on as consumption tax because you don't get rich just sitting around, you get rich employing people and selling stuff, taking risks and investing. I agree with the premise that taxes will get passed on to the consumer, the question is why the left doesn't see that as a dichotomy within thei

    • First, yes, you can have a platform that raises taxes on the wealthy while lowering them on the poor. It's called Progressive Taxation. The opposite is Regressive Taxation.

      Sales Taxes tend to be regressive because they apply to spending, and the poorer you are the more you spend. You can mitigate this by excluding some things (like food, education, shelter, etc). You can also make it worse by doing the opposite and including those thing, excluding luxury items, or setting flat per unit sales taxes. You'

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        If you are poor, you spend less, you cannot spend more than a rich person. There are rich persons that spend my entire yearly salary just on food every month and they get a tax rebate from the government because they claim it as a business expense. So the rich will never, ever pay their fair share of taxes unless you have a flat tax on spending.

        The problem here is that the left wants to raise corporate taxes up to 90% on these corporations that buy raw products from places like China. Trump raises effective

  • Perfect time to buy a perfectly good off-lease system, save some money, and side step this whole tariff nonsense.

  • Mr. Trump, like a blind pig finding an acorn, is right about China.

    The country has experienced tremendous growth over the last 4 decades. They were a developing country so we ignored their currency manipulation. We ignored their human rights abuses. We ignored them selling reactor tech to North Korea. We ignored them trading with Iraq, North Korea, Cuba, and Iran in the face of global embargos.

    Because we looked the other way the Chinese government has consistently delivered 6% GDP growth, and the Chines

    • No, they "tolerate" their government, because they HAVE NO CHOICE! It's a dictatorship. They will execute anyone that gets in their way, then send the cost of the ammunition, to the family! Their news is tightly regulated. It's all propaganda that the STATE is what you live for. Most Chinese live in abject poverty, save for those in the "ruling class". The major industrial cities have millions that live stacked like mice, working 996. 99 hours a week and 6 days a week. Every time you see a video that t
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Dell, HP, MS, Intel at el COULD have continue to produce products here in the United States, but NO! Can't do that and enjoy the HUGE profits on devices made for pennies on a dollar in the slave labor markets of China! Take less profit, build them elsewhere. 300,400% CEO's above most workers is just crazy.

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