US Retail Group -- Which Represents Walmart, Target, and Best Buy -- Offers To Help Antitrust Investigators in Going After Amazon and Google (techcrunch.com) 81
A leading U.S. retail group, whose members include Walmart, Target, Best Buy and others, has penned a letter to the Federal Trade Commission that details its concerns over big tech companies' dominance. From a report: The letter specifically calls out Amazon and Google for their control over the majority of internet product searches, how price and product information reaches consumers and other concerns. The letter, written by The Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), urges the FTC to take a closer look at the big tech platforms. The group also offers to help in any antitrust investigations. "It should...be quite concerning to the Commission that Amazon and Google control the majority of all Internet product search, and can very easily affect whether and how price and product information actually reaches consumers," write the RILA. "Moreover, these firms are extraordinarily adept at determining how small changes in the way in which information is conveyed affect consumer behavior -- given that nearly everything they do is driven by big-data science and machine learning models," the letter continues.
"To put the matter as simply as possible, a firm does not need to have the power to control prices if it has the power to control effective access to price information," it says. The RILA says it understands the consumer benefits to e-commerce, in that it provides fast and efficient access to products at a scale that exceeds what's possible in the physical realm. But it also presents their case where the major tech firms are called out as "bottleneck technology platforms," where information about products is not transparently shared with consumers.
"To put the matter as simply as possible, a firm does not need to have the power to control prices if it has the power to control effective access to price information," it says. The RILA says it understands the consumer benefits to e-commerce, in that it provides fast and efficient access to products at a scale that exceeds what's possible in the physical realm. But it also presents their case where the major tech firms are called out as "bottleneck technology platforms," where information about products is not transparently shared with consumers.
Translation: (Score:2)
We fucked up big time investing in Online Retail and now we are all going to be the next sears :(
We love capitalism (free market) when we make billions. We hate it when we go out of business :(
Re:Translation: (Score:5, Interesting)
We fucked up big time investing in Online Retail and now we are all going to be the next sears :(
We love capitalism (free market) when we make billions. We hate it when we go out of business :(
They may have been late investing in Online Retail but that does not excuse what Google and Amazon are doing which is becoming a gatekeeper for online shopping and squashing any and all competition that threatens their control.
Re:Translation: (Score:5, Insightful)
Possibly true but also dosen't excuse the old school retailers for collusion to try and hold on to their joint near national monopoly when they achieved that using similar tactics against more local smaller chains and independent shops. And then trying to manipulate the law into protecting that monopoly from their only true competitor.
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Out of points today, mod up!
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They may have been late investing in Online Retail but that does not excuse what Google and Amazon are doing which is becoming a gatekeeper for online shopping and squashing any and all competition that threatens their control.
No, you have missed the point.
I am no fan of Google and Amazon, but they only became "gatekeepers" because everyone else sat on their ass and ALLOWED them to become hugely successful.
20 years ago, Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy were already big, well established businesses, and Google and Amazon didn't exist. They could have created massive e-commerce businesses. They could have become the Amazon and Google of today. But they deliberately chose not to.
So, boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. You had a chanc
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Cry me a river. You had a chance and you blew it. And now you want government intervention to make up for your mistakes.
You probably will cry a river when monopolies do something you don't like and you have zero recourse. A private company having monopoly power is a bad thing regardless of how it happened or what mistakes others made up to that point. Certainly Google deplatforming people they disagree with over something as vague as 'hate speech' is a power that no company should have. For those who get schadenfreude over it being 'conservatives' this time rest assured your turn will come. Or, to help translate it for so
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Certainly Google deplatforming people they disagree with over something as vague as 'hate speech' is a power that no company should have.
YouTube doesn't allow porn, and by default, Google filters porn from their search results. If anyone has a case for being treated unfairly by Google, it's the porn businesses. Despite this, porn still manages to be a multi-billion dollar industry [yahoo.com].
If your ideas are so unpopular that being "deplatformed" by Google is sufficient to squash them from the open internet, they had it coming.
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They may have been late investing in Online Retail but that does not excuse what Google and Amazon are doing which is becoming a gatekeeper for online shopping and squashing any and all competition that threatens their control.
No, you have missed the point.
I am no fan of Google and Amazon, but they only became "gatekeepers" because everyone else sat on their ass and ALLOWED them to become hugely successful.
20 years ago, Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy were already big, well established businesses, and Google and Amazon didn't exist. They could have created massive e-commerce businesses. They could have become the Amazon and Google of today. But they deliberately chose not to.
So, boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. You had a chance and you blew it. And now you want government intervention to make up for your mistakes.
Firstly, Google is a god around here, a deity that is above reproach, so forgive me for assuming you were part of the cult. Secondly your position is counter productive. If Google and Amazon are monopolies, gigantic bullies and you don't think that is the best thing since sliced bread you'll want to do something about it instead of just sitting there pointing at Walmart &Co and enjoying the wave of schadenfreude that you seem to be surfing. For every Wall-Mart out there, there are thousands of smaller b
Success? (Score:2)
They may have been late investing in Online Retail but that does not excuse what Google and Amazon are doing which is becoming a gatekeeper for online shopping and squashing any and all competition that threatens their control.
As opposed to Walmart who is rather successfully being a gatekeeper for real world shopping in a huge number of (usually small) communities and closing innumerable small (and large) businesses?
I don't think what they are doing from a business perspective needs excusing as a general proposition. Personally I like how Amazon is forcing a bunch of fat and lazy retailers (both online and offline) to step their game up, particularly online. No I don't love everything about the situation but it's certainly bett
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We fucked up big time investing in Online Retail and now we are all going to be the next sears :(
We love capitalism (free market) when we make billions. We hate it when we go out of business :(
They may have been late investing in Online Retail but that does not excuse what Google and Amazon are doing which is becoming a gatekeeper for online shopping and squashing any and all competition that threatens their control.
very nice https://www.epsonprintersuppor... [epsonprint...ort247.com]
tax rules also helped Amazon do good vs stores (Score:2)
tax rules also helped Amazon do good vs stores
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You mean the same tax rules that allowed Amazon to do well versus brick & mortar ever since 1941 (Wait... what? How did Bezos manage that? Is he secretly a Time Lord?), when Nelson vs. Sears (Ah...) established that states can't tax out-of-state retailers which have no physical presence in said state? The same tax rules that were re-affirmed in a separate ruling in 1992? The same tax rules that also benefited Sears before they decided to open up a location in every dead or dying mall across the coun
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One imposed through violent imposition
Is it perhaps one imposed through violence?
Double Standards in corporate America? Yup! (Score:5, Insightful)
Where was this group when the mom and pops shops in my town were being displaced by Walmart? Wasn't Wally-world just saying that "Hey, we are just competing, not dominating" and then undercutting the prices at the bakery, and the butcher and the grocery and the convenience items by way of offering everything else they offer as well. Then they would say "if those mom and pops were staying competitive, they would offer all the same types of services!"
I miss my delicious home made eggs, bacon and biscuits on a Saturday morning from the local non-chain shop.
If Walmart was "just competing" at that time, then isn't Amazon and Google "just competing" now?
If Walmart wants to gain access to these types of price searches, shouldn't they put the advertising budget to it or start their own search engine in order to stay competitive?
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There is a Wal-Mart near me. And they are surrounded by two dozen small businesses, who all seem to be doing quite well.
I don't like Wal-Mart and avoid them as much as possible. And I see no evidence of them putting anyone out of business.
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"researchers counted 306 businesses in the surrounding area. Two years after the Walmart opened, 82 of those businesses had closed" "from the store, about four miles or so, the rate of closure is about average, or roughly 24 percent of small businesses" "the closer a store was to the Walmart location, the greater the likelihood it would close" "for every mile closer to the Walmart, 6 percent more stores closed" "in around the store's location, between 35 and 60 percent of stores closed" "depending on the ty
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Uh-oh looks like Walmart now knows how those unfortunate mom-and-pop stores felt like when the big block stores came to town. Karma -- gettin' it?
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HAH! I see what you did there!
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start their own search engine in order to stay competitive?
Yes, please.
Walmart or China-Mart? (Score:1)
I haven't seen anything from there made in the USA in 20 years.
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I call BULLSHIT. Nice try to inject a little jingoism into this discussion (gasp!) but China is between 17th and 21st in the ranking of American Beef Imports. Less than a measurable fraction of 1 percent of imported Beef comes from China. You are lying or uninformed, but hey, it "feels" truthy. Here's data: https://beef2live.com/story-be... [beef2live.com]
China's biggest food trading partner is Brazil, only when they can't buy it from them do they turn to US. Interesting article here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/k... [forbes.com]
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Even more strangely, it's not. See my debunking of this claim a few posts above.
I'm sure there may be a few cases of this happening, but China doesn't have to go through all that nonsense, they just buy one of the larger US food producers, like Smithfield (Chinese owned now), and have the stuff processed here in the US in a Chinese-owned factory here instead of shipping it around the world at their expense.
Repeating lies does not make them true.
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Bunch of hypocrites.
Hypocrisy at its finest (Score:5, Interesting)
Go back a few years, and you could read all about [money.com] how "big companies" -- you know... like Walmart -- were destroying the business prospects of smaller "mom-and-pop" businesses. So now, Walmart and their closest friends/allies all want to help the FTC to investigate the new kids on the block, who have found an incredibly effective way to eat their proverbial lunch?
Yeah... forgive my cynicism, but it's just a wee bit difficult for me to find much sympathy for the "US Retail Group" members.
Sore loser tries to trip winner (Score:2)
Or
"Crumbling bricks & mortar business hurls now-surplus bricks at online competition"
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What's most amusing about the whole thing is that Walmart is still bigger than Amazon. Yeah, Amazon is a huge chunk (half? a bit mo
How to get me never to shop at Walmart (Score:1)
I do infrequently shop at Walmart, but I can guarantee the best way to have me never set foot in one again is this kind of hypocrisy. Walmart destroyed probably in the range of 80% of the small mom & pop stores in and around where I live and now that there is a bigger fish in the pond they want to cry to mommy? Play by the same rules you created and quit being a little bitch.
What axe to grind? (Score:2)
Oh, this old thing? *swing*swing* We have no axe to grind against the online guys.. this is just to trim fat.. downsize...rightsize..something.
Look at them run. Terrified.
You know what? You moved into towns, you destroyed local businesses, you wiped out the mom and pop shops...
Excuse me if I don't show a shred of sympathy for the stores' cause.
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Of course, when Walmart steamrolled through the local businesses in my area, a few more niche specialty shops remained as Walmart didn't see a good business case for hitting those.
Amazon came along and finished the job.
So I don't have a lot of sympathy for Walmart, I'm not exactly ready to jump up and down and white knight for Amazon either.
Unbiased (Score:2)
They cannot possibly have a self interest in trying to stifle Amazon can they?
What about the consumer who wants cheap goods that are hyper-priced by retailers?
Sorry Walmart, but your search absolutely sucks... (Score:3)
It's an absolute shame because Walmart, at one point, had the largest commercial computer system in the world. I know because the company I worked for sold it to them. They were surpassed when a telco upgraded their system, also purchased from the company I worked for. I stopped following the race after a while.
Yes, the search at Amazon leaves something to be desired, but it is not the 'throw some shit on the page' that happens when you do a search at Walmart. I want to see what is available in my local stores, or order a product from you, not from third party. Fortunately, I have multiple Walmart stores in my area. Unfortunately, you seem to keep the inventories at about 75%. Lots of empty spaces on the shelves. Whenever I see an analyst or expert rave about Walmart and their online presence, I have to ask if these experts have actually used Walmart's' online ordering. I think not... There went your credibility.
I really enjoy watching these companies try to claim antitrust or monopoly. Maybe if they built a better product people would use their products more frequently. Best Buy? your prices drove me to other suppliers. That said, we have purchased our phones from you for 10+ years. Your sales people sucked too. Target? Nice store, your web site is improving, but even you said you were late to the game. Nice to see efforts underway to catch up though. Apple vs. Android? cut me a break Apple. You have, last I looked, 14% of the worldwide smartphone market. Remember, you didn't want to build phones for the rest of the people. Bing vs. Google search? Google got there first and you have been playing catch-up ever since. It reminds me of my first Windows 95 software. You remember, don't you? it did not have an internet browser. I was testing browsers when Win95 and Global Network Navigator was leading the pack because of their tabbed browsing. Tabs were at the bottom of the page. Good job on the p0rn search though M$, and your maps are coming along.
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I was testing browsers when Win95 and Global Network Navigator was leading the pack because of their tabbed browsing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Or did you mean Netscape Navigator?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Nope, Global Network Navigator (GNN). I had signed up for the beta test program. It was running on Windows 3.1 along with other browsers including Netscape. This was a bit before Win95 was released. GNN was a stand alone browser at the time. IIRC, Netscape did not have tabs yet.
Had a typo above... I was testing browsers when Win 95 was released and Global Network Navigator was leading the pack because of their tabbed browsing.
I'm opening a bag of popcorn for this... (Score:2)
So it's Walmart, Target and Best Buy vs Google and Amazon
That's like a gunfight breaking out between a pack of child molesters and a gang of rapists. Every casualty is a win for humanity.
Now if only we could persuade Rupert Murdoch to go after Mark Zuckerberg.
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OH, i would so remove my previous post if i had mod points. This is funny.
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Thank you!
I read your comment and thought it deserved the 5 points it had when I last checked.
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Now if only we could persuade Rupert Murdoch to go after Mark Zuckerberg.
That's what happened with MySpace. The result was just as beautiful as you would have hoped.
Just pay more - it's worth it. (Score:3)