Foxconn Will Only Create 1500 Jobs, says Wisconsin Governor (theverge.com) 203
The Foxconn factory in Wisconsin will only create 1,500 jobs when it starts production next May, Gov. Tony Evers said yesterday. From a report: That's the same number Foxconn has been saying since it shifted plans for the factory a few months ago, and far short of the 13,000 jobs that were promised when President Trump broke ground a year ago. Evers has been negotiating with Foxconn since he replaced former Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, and he says he now has "clarity: on Foxconn's plans. 1,500 jobs is short of the 1,800 jobs required for Foxconn to get the next set of tax credits under its $4 billion deal with the state. Foxconn already missed its first jobs target under that contract, hiring only 156 employees instead of the required 260 last year. Instead, Foxconn has bought a series of empty buildings for "innovation centers" around the state as part of a promised "AI 8K+5G ecosystem" (although it's never specified what that ecosystem actually is). Timeline: Wisconsin's $4.1 Billion Foxconn Boondoggle; Foxconn Is Reconsidering Plan For Wisconsin Factory; Foxconn Says It Will Build Wisconsin Factory After All; Foxconn is Confusing the Hell Out of Wisconsin; and One Year After Trump's Foxconn Groundbreaking, There is Almost Nothing To Show For It.
So (Score:3)
This has been going on before anyone here was born. Chalk it up not to idiocy of this governor, or this president, or this party, but of government in general.
To quote Barry from American Dad, "Boy, we've had a lot of schemes mess up badly, but this is the most recent."
Re:So (Score:4, Interesting)
You get to the Wisconsin deal, and it stinks. The current governor inherited the contract from his predecessor, and there's not much he can do about a contract he didn't negotiate. "Government" gets a bad rap all too often because people fail to recognize that government is perpetual no matter how well or how badly it performs on businesslike decisions whereas businesses are (generally) allowed to fail as a function of their bad decisions, economic climate, etc. Frankly, I take some comfort in knowing that government is allowed to soldier on when the alternative is no government to keep things running reasonably well. Wisconsin will continue to survive as an entity, even if the Foxcon deal ends up failing.
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Ultimately, it's the Voters fault.
Re:So (Score:4, Informative)
The voters didn't fail. The GOP has gerrymandered the state so badly that they will maintain their stranglehold on power in spite of what the voters say.
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Don't be so sure. After the 2020 census Evers will have veto authority on the updated electoral district maps. I suspect we will be seeing some improvement on this issue. This is one reason why it was so important for Evers to win the 2018 election.
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I'm disappointed today GOP gets even 25% of the votes. Even that much is more than they deserve.
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How many Rubles you get paid to post, Ivan?
How can I get same job? Hook me up, bro!
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Wisconsin doesn't even have an international border.
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Chalk it up not to idiocy of this governor, or this president, or this party, but of government in general.
Remember one thing. Insulting the government is insulting the people that vote for it. The government is just following orders with the consent of the vast majority.
Re:So (Score:5, Insightful)
The government is just following orders with the consent of the vast majority.
Or in the case of most red states, with the consent of a minority of hand selected voters and against the consent of the vast majority of voters who were gerrymandered or otherwise defrauded of their voting power by various nefarious means couched as "voter integrity".
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Seems that gerrymandering is the mantra talking point.
Just curious. Do you think a city should be able to vote to steal the resources of smaller communities because it outnumbers small towns?
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It is in no way the simple.
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I'm afraid it is. Each person simply has to make the choice. A cohesive voice is formed naturally with little to no effort.
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You're assuming that peoples' votes count as expected in an actual democracy. Throw that idea out when the state house and senate have been gerrymandered by one party or the other to perpetuate their grip on power.
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Sorry, everybody is complaining about the autopilot when the system doesn't have one. Just try pushing the other button, and see what happens.
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Nothing happens. That's they point of gerrymandering. You lose the overall vote in the state, but still have a big majority in the legislature.
Re: So (Score:1)
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If you are Quoting American dad, then you really are clueless about the government. Because that show is bias and in fact out right lies.
Really expensive corporate welfare (Score:5, Insightful)
At that level of subsidy, they would be better off taking the same dollars and spending them on renewable energy in their state. Higher paying jobs with lower subsidies.
If you were a capitalist, you'd understand that.
That's true for any level of subsidies (Score:5, Interesting)
Real growth comes from making your state the kind of place college grads want to live. That's why my kid wants to move to Denver, Co when she graduates. Companies move where the employees are, not the other way around. At least, not the kind of companies you want in your state...
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Exactly. And it doesn't hurt to be a place that creates tons of college grads, too. The Triangle in NC is one of the best economies in the country because it's got UNC-Chapel Hill (medical and liberal arts), NC State (science and engineering) and Duke University. Tons of well educated people here, companies move here, and voila! Great economy and great quality of life. No need to throw money at companies to go ther
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Of course it goes both ways. SV has so many tech firms because tech talent moves there, and then other tech firms start there because that's where the talent is. The idea behind incentives is to jump-start that cycle by letting a lot of companies go to where the talent is, allowing that talent to stay. Or to relocate a branch, and bring that initial burst of talent with it.
For somethings, it makes a lot of sense. Peoria wants to submit a b
This is how the gop governs (Score:4, Insightful)
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" Economy is doing great, "
hey, dick head:
Economy was doing great while OBAMA was in Office, and maybe you should take a moment form sucking GOP dick to think about the fact the Obama Economic packages that turned the economy around have hardly been touched by the GOP; unlike all his social programs.
Idiot.
politicians sellin us out (Score:1)
WHO could have possibly foresaw that a factory built in 2019 would be mostly automated and not require 10k+ people to operate
if only there were some way of deducing the effects of technology that currently fucking exists
So Wisconsin will be pulling back the subsidies (Score:2)
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For those they can. The GOP also passed a lot of last-minute legislation that neutered the current governors ability to mitigate or modify things like this. They voted sweeping new powers for their governor when he entered office, then passed sweeping limitations on the governorship when the other party was about to gain power. Now the stacked state supreme court upheld the corruption and they're having to take it to the federal level.
bought a series of empty buildings (Score:1)
Yes, evading taxes back home are they? I mean, that was the design of the entire scam.
Alwasy voting against their own self interest (Score:1)
So $4 Billion is enough for 1,500 people to receive $100,000 per year (each) for 26 years, Hell, if the state had just handed out $2 Billion directly to these same people, it would have been cheaper!
Stupid people winning stupid prizes
$2.6 Million per Job/ (Score:5, Informative)
For anyone curious about the math.
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At that rate, it would have been easier to hold a lottery and the winners get $100K/year for 26 years.
So, What Happens Next time Foxconn Tries This? (Score:2)
Fuck Scott Walker (Score:2)
I doubt even 1500 (Score:2)
I doubt even 1,500 jobs will be created.
Yes, there will be a few "key" positions and some minor worker-bee positions, but 1,500 jobs altogether?
I may be wrong, but I just don't see it.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Insightful)
Dog and pony show for the cameras. Thats all it is. Foxconn isnt going to do anything except take advantage of the free money and taxes incentives.
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Except that they're missing their targets by the specified deadlines as defined by the contract so it sounds like they won't be getting all (any?) of those tax incentives.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Insightful)
so it sounds like they won't be getting all (any?) of those tax incentives.
They already got some tax incentives just for showing up. Those incentives were given on the assumption that Foxconn wasn't lying.
Yes, Foxconn loses out on additional incentives, but they already got a way better deal than they could have reached with a more accurate portrayal of their plans.
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They already got some tax incentives just for showing up. Those incentives were given on the assumption that Foxconn wasn't lying.
Yes, Foxconn loses out on additional incentives, but they already got a way better deal than they could have reached with a more accurate portrayal of their plans.
Don't forget the money spent on infrastructure. I can't find the current totals, but roads were built, land and property were purchased, etc...
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Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:4, Insightful)
1500 jobs for that level of government incentive including using eminent domain and government money to buy a bunch of land that was given to them is offensive. For the amount of tax payer money that's already been spent on this the state could have hired 15,000 directly and paid them for the next 20 years. But according to the GOP it was better to just give those hundreds of millions in state tax payer money to those Taiwanese owners to get these 1500 minimum wage jobs.
Who says that they won't meet the goal? Why Foxconn has of course, did you read the article? They've been saying since they signed the deal that they wouldn't meet it. History also tells us that Foxconn always makes big promises and then never follows through, they've done this promises and under deliver thing a bunch of times. People warned about this when they were talking about this stupid deal and every time Foxconn admits the truth the GOP comes running in to get them to re-promise the jobs that they will never create in the hope the public will forget about it by the time they don't meet it. Handing fat wads of cash to private businesses to create jobs is just fucking stupid.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:4, Funny)
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Yeah, I don't think being able to see Wisconsin from your house provides any additional insight at all but if it does we might have missed out on an opportunity with Sarah Palin after all.
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Other than living right next to the IL/WI border we heard about the damned plant nearly every day while it was being foisted on WI tax payers. For a while it rare to watch a local evening news program or read a local newspaper that didn't include a story of some new fiasco associated with this deal. Because of that, it's a safe bet that we heard about it much more frequently than most others around the country.
(
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"(I have no idea of what Sarah Palin has to do with this story. Or anything, for that matter.)"
Apparently you don't hear about much else. Sara Palin claimed she'd keep an eye on Russia from her house and this highlighted to the status of universal knowledge (or nearly universal if you are the one who missed it) when SNL spoof'd it. https://www.google.com/search?q=sarah+palin+russia+from+my+house&oq=sarah+palin+russia+from+my+house
She was indicating that her politics in Alaska involve interaction and exp
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The GOP (govt. of Putin) has the state so gerrymandered that even though the GOP loses based on vote count, they still take majority of seats in state house and senate. Hopefully the rural folks who voted for Trump (and a bunch of those other GOP a-holes) will see the result of their experiment and change their minds in 2020.
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Trump had nothing to do with the Foxconn deal. Walker arranged the whole thing prior to Trump's getting the GOP nomination. Walker was trying to do something he could use in his own bid for the nomination. Trump showed up to take credit and a photo op at the groundbreaking.
There's no sabotaging going on. It was just a bad deal that made no sense from the start. There are no manufacturers who use LCDs in the area (or even in the US?). Foxconn was laying off 10k people at LCD plants in Taiwan (where peo
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It might not be all bad if they follow through on the jobs they create being higher skilled educated jobs rather than the manufacturing jobs they'd originally promised. That will would less environmental impact and create the same economic stimulus with a lower count of jobs. The count of jobs doesn't really matter much just the total amount paid into salaries. This obsession with job counts is silly.
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"It might not be all bad if they follow through on the jobs they create being higher skilled educated jobs rather than the manufacturing jobs they'd originally promised. That will would less environmental impact and create the same economic stimulus with a lower count of jobs. The count of jobs doesn't really matter much just the total amount paid into salaries. This obsession with job counts is silly."
.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Informative)
I live in Mt Pleasant, 2 miles from the Foxconn site. While all this non-activity at Foxconn goes on, the freeways are being expanded at great taxpayer expense at least in part to benefit Foxconn (and Amazon, also building in the area). There's one family left that's suing Mt Pleasant over the eminent domain seizing of their home for Foxconn (though they actually needed just a small portion of the land to widen a road).
A month or two ago I saw that Foxconn was starting to lease land to farmers because they aren't going to use it for their factory - after they bought it or had it seized under eminent domain from those same farmers.
And of course, my property "value" has gone up by 10% this year meaning my property tax has gone up a similar amount.
Elaborate real estate ploy maybe? (Score:2)
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Speaking as a Wisconsinite also, because of revenue limits, your property taxes will not go up by 10% unless your property is unique in going up in value. If everyone in your municipality has seen the same increase in property value, revenue limits will result in a lower levy rate (which means your taxes will remain flat). This is a common misconception --- I live in Waukesha County, and our house has gone up in value by at least 15% since we purchased the house. Our taxes have been relatively flat durin
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Waukesha may do that, but it's certainly not required. Wisconsin property taxes can go up when everyone's house value is increasing.
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The property value didn't go up, just the tax assessment.
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"1500 jobs for that level of government incentive including using eminent domain and government money to buy a bunch of land that was given to them is offensive. For the amount of tax payer money that's already been spent on this the state could have hired 15,000 directly and paid them for the next 20 years. But according to the GOP it was better to just give those hundreds of millions in state tax payer money to those Taiwanese owners to get these 1500 minimum wage jobs."
I can't say whether they have follo
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If an area has HS degree workers looking for jobs but no college degree workers looking for jobs, it sure does matter. Also, where did 5 or 6 jobs come from? Are you going to tell the 5 or 6 people that some college kid making $55k/year is just as good as them making $22k/year?
Re: I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:1)
not having to pay taxes or follow regulations is like handing out money to these businesses.
For fuck sakes, why do repubtards insist on giving money to the ultra rich in the form of tax breaks, but mention helping the poor, and all hell breaks loose.
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That's true but then the wealthy don't really pay much more than the poor. It is the middle class who pays all the taxes and that includes the top 10% and the majority of the 1% by income. The upper working class aren't the wealthy the wealthy keep their wealth in corporations which means they deduct all the expenses of making more money and keep reinvesting almost everything to make sure it all an expense of making more money like a multi-generational tax deferred IRA they can draw from without penalty at
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Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you cancel the deal, then they will still probably build a factory somewhere, and someone will get those new tax dollars. To be fair, given that we're talking about an overseas company, the tax dollars would probably go to some other country.
Then again, building that plant is probably intended as a hedge against Trump's tariffs, so we'd probably end up taxing them even if they built the plant overseas. So really, even that isn't a very good argument.
Most of the time, it is like giving money away. The only exception is when you can honestly say that the company would turn up its nose and not build the plant at all without those incentives. And if that's really true, then it is a strong signal that the plant won't be economically viable, and will end up becoming another empty, blighted building in a few years anyway, with all jobs lost, so maybe it would be better for them not to build it in the first place.
Just saying.
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Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:4, Interesting)
From a game theory perspective, the entire concept of giving tax breaks is basically a large-scale version of the prisoner's dilemma with a lot more players, and in much the same way, the end result tends to be that everybody loses.
The only thing that those tax breaks can accomplish is convincing a business to locate in one city instead of another. And if every city is doing that, then on average, nobody is winning by doing so, because for every business one city steals, there's another one that gets stolen from them by some other city. So on the whole, all that this wheeling and dealing accomplishes is reducing overall tax revenue to every city that participates and screwing over the rare city that doesn't.
So in effect, yes, it is just handing out tax dollars.
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By picking on my word choice, you completely missed the point.
In practice, that approximately never occurs. Either an expansion will be profitable or it won't. No sane businessperson would ever expand if the business wo
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No, no. You misunderstand. Each time they succeed, it's a net gain for that town or city. The problem is that it is also a net loss for whatever town or city that business would otherwise have chosen for its headquarters/manufacturing plant/whatever had it not been enticed by that town or city. So in aggregate, it is a net loss. And because it is roughly a zero-sum game, on average, each city should end up with about as many
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I've got news for you, large businesses are mostly shrinking businesses. It's startups that can't go ask the government for money that is where most of the jobs growth comes from
Focusing tax incentives on the shrinking companies and then being forced to overcharge the actually growing companies is not a good idea.
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With the deal you still DON'T GET ENOUGH TO OFFSET THE DEALS ON NON TAX ITEMS. like infrastructure changes
If you pulled your head out of the right wings ass for a moment, you would have noticed the poster said 'already' and wasn't including the 4 billion dollars.
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"Tax incentives are NOT existing cash the communities get to choose how to spend on other projects."
That depends. Tax credits certainly are and taxes aren't just money the government takes to hand out in entitlement programs. Money costs public resources to make, secure, etc which is why every dollar needs to carry a tax even sitting in a vault. Of course we don't tax the dollars sitting in vaults that our military defends to offset the cost of defending those dollars. We only tax the income dollars which i
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Insightful)
A:1500, not 15,000
B: The Govern worked to see the Foxconn met their agreement, which to no one surprise, they did not.
C: What kind of fucking idiot compares wanting a corporation to do what they said they would do to Venezuela?
You don't want business friendly government, you want corporation to shove their dick up taxpayers ass and just do whatever they like.
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No, that's not how it happened.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Informative)
What happened was that the new governor was elected and immediately worked on rescinding the Foxconn deal which caused Foxconn to cancel its plans
That isn't true at all. Do you actually believe that nonsense or are you just trolling?
Foxconn started backing away from its proposed plans in mid-2018. They started planning on much smaller factories with much higher levels of automation, claiming the changes were due to market forces. This reduced their investment from $10 billion to $2.5 billion. A Foxconn spokesperson went from saying the mix of jobs would be 75% assembly workers to 10%. While he wouldn't comment on the total number of jobs, it is clear from that ratio that the level of automation at this factory would be far higher than they had promised.
Foxconn missed job targets in 2018, before the current governor entered office, and had been walking back on promised long before he ever won the election.
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You may want to use Google maps or check your definition of "Close proximity" They're closer to Northwestern.
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No, 156 is not substantially more than zero.
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No, 156 is not substantially more than zero.
yes it is. Unless you an idiot and comparing to all the numbers. then sure.
"They have 10 more months to get to zero, and are already 98% of the way there."
so not there then.
Did you read the article, at all? The aren't putting in the fab the promised, and have a bunch of empty building to make it look look like there is more people.
FoxConn is scamming US. But you go ahead and defend them. Do you need a towel to wipe their cum off your face?
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Comparing to 13500. And no, within that range it is not.
Not at 1500 either. 0 is the more likely result.
Exactly.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who is to say they will not eventually meet that goal?
Time didn't start today, and Foxconn has a history. That history includes promising large numbers of jobs to get a great deal, and then failing to deliver.
Meanwhile contracts are working the way they are supposed to, Foxconn will not meet a target job number and get less of a tax benefit as a result
Except they're getting much more after missing those goals than they would have gotten if they started with "we're bringing 1500 jobs", and the contract has no claw-back provisions for those benefits now that it's apparent Foxconn will not do what they promised.
That's because you're stupid Kendyboy... (Score:3, Insightful)
They will not be producing NOT a single job - they will create NEGATIVE JOBS FOR CENTURIES TO COME.
See... That's what happens when Republicans BRIBE companies with taxpayers' money.
That "money for jobs" bribe never comes back. Never ever.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/... [theverge.com]
"Realistically, the payback period for a $100,000 per job deal is not 20 years, not 42 years, but somewhere between hundreds of years and never," wrote Jeffrey Dorfman, an economics professor at the University of Georgia, in a story for Forbes.
"At $230,000 [or more] per job, there is no hope of recapturing the state funds spent."
And this was before the subsidy had risen to $4.1 billion, or about $315,000 per job.
And that's not including the pollution left to future generations of Wisconsinites.
It would have been better for Wisconsin if they had instead donated their taxes to ISIS, who would then blow up random people across the state for a couple o
You know how I can tell you're a commie? (Score:5, Funny)
And the best part is that thanks to Poe's law you don't know if I'm serious or not...
Re:That's because you're stupid Kendyboy... (Score:4, Informative)
Thanks for the interesting post! Here's the original article that professors quote came from:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/j... [forbes.com]
The payback period goes from 20 years to 42 years just by discounting the future tax revenue with a 4% interest rate. The payback period becomes 100+ years when you take into account that not every job goes to an unemployed local. If new people move into the state, the costs for the state also increase.
Re:I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:5, Funny)
I had been hearing a lot of claims that Foxconn was producing no jobs for the state, now I find out the number is substantially more that zero.
Yet, 1500 substantially less than 13,000. Your confusion probably stems from trying to do math while attempting self fellatio. I guess you just figured you were limber enough after all that mental gymnastics practice.
Foxconn is catching up to the curve (Score:1)
- Last Year: 156 jobs vs. 260 promised (60%)
- Current: 1,500 jobs actual vs. 1,800 jobs promised (83%)
From an objective POV, it looks like Foxconn got off to a late start but is catching up to its milestones, rather than falling further behind.
Re:Foxconn is catching up to the curve (Score:5, Informative)
FTFY.
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https://www.imore.com/foxconns-wisconsin-factor-will-begin-production-may-2020-create-just-1500-jobs
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And what about the 13,000 they promised?
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You're comparing actual hires (156 last year) to promised hires (1500 instead of 1800 this year). Not the same thing.
Re: Foxconn is catching up to the curve (Score:1)
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They spent 4 billion dollars on 1500 jobs. And that number probably doesn't include all the back-and-forth bullshit and bureaucracy.
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well no. They gave them a 4 billion dollar free ride, but it's not the same thing. Still wrong though.
They did spend a but load on all the other stuff. Infrastructure changes, selling Foxxconn water below market, etc.
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Nope, the $4B assumes they hire all 13,000 initially promised. The money is staged as tax credits. If they don't hire, they don't get the credit.
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If they buy robots they get a lot of the money. See here [wisconsinb...roject.org] which details how the payments work. See tables on page 4 that show some examples.
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Foxconn will not meet a target job number and get less of a tax benefit as a result. Seems like it's still a net benefit.
Only for them. They will write off the losses and not pay a penny.
This whole scheme was for Foxconn to move money offshore to evade domestic taxes.
The biggest concern in Wisconsin is the cost of fishing licenses up north.
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I had been hearing a lot of claims that Foxconn was producing no jobs for the state, now I find out the number is substantially more that zero.
Well, 1,500 is substantially closer to 0 than to 13,000---which is what they promised.
If I had to choose between saying "They deliver nothing" and "They deliver what they promised"... well, nothing is closer to the truth.
Re: I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:1)
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That seems reasonable to me. They also announced they planned to hit a lower jobs target but target higher end R&D type jobs. It isn't all about quantity, higher quality jobs are better as well. After all, 1x150k/yr job does as much for the state (or more) than 5x30k/yr jobs. 156 of the 230 required jobs but were they 156x75k/yr jobs or just the expected basic manufacturing gigs paying 30-40k/yr because that is a very big difference.
Everyone wants to jump on and vilify them because of some connection wi
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I'll bet you $50 that in 5 years there won't be 1,500 jobs there.
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He isn't dear to me and I'm not hurt but it does piss me off a bit because it gives the United States a weaker position at the bargaining table and that fucks us all over. It also undermines any attempt that might be made to help weather the damage of Obama's massively expanded NSA/CIA which spied on our allies and Obama's strong arming the leaders of other nations trying to go after the heroes who helped leak details of the programs.
The international community may have loved Obama but the things they are p
Re: I'm confused, is not 1500 0? (Score:1)
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Because FoxConn isn't holding up there end. IT's literally the fiscally responsible thing to do. You know,l the thing the GOP didn't do.
Re:The economy is doing well, who cares (Score:5, Interesting)
Dream on. The yield curve inverted under him, so we're due for a recession, and volatility is all over the map.
If he continues to fuck with investors by adding volatility to the market, he'll be out in 2020, rural numbnut low-information voters notwithstanding