Hong Kong Protester Forum Says Some DDoS Attacks Came From China (bloomberg.com) 58
An online service used by Hong Kong demonstrators said a large digital attack that knocked out its servers briefly over the weekend was unprecedented and originated in some cases from websites in China. From a report: LIHKG, a forum that's been used for organizing mass rallies in Hong Kong, posted a statement online after it was the target of what's known as a distributed denial of service, or DDoS, attack, or a flood of traffic that disables a site by overwhelming its computers. Total requests to the site hit 1.5 billion and unique visitors surged to 6.5 million per hour, the group said. "We have reasons to believe that there is a power, or even a national level power behind to organize such attacks as botnet from all over the world were manipulated in launching this attack," the statement read.
The Hong Kong protests began in June over a bill allowing extraditions to mainland China and have evolved into a wider push against Beijing's expanding control over the city. Participants, often under the controversial slogan "Liberate Hong Kong; revolution of our times," have used digital services like LIHKG and Telegram to organize secretly. Digital Attack Map, which provides information on daily cyber attacks around the world, showed the financial hub at the heart of a DDoS attack in recent days, as protesters clashed with police.
The Hong Kong protests began in June over a bill allowing extraditions to mainland China and have evolved into a wider push against Beijing's expanding control over the city. Participants, often under the controversial slogan "Liberate Hong Kong; revolution of our times," have used digital services like LIHKG and Telegram to organize secretly. Digital Attack Map, which provides information on daily cyber attacks around the world, showed the financial hub at the heart of a DDoS attack in recent days, as protesters clashed with police.
The Beijing State must fall (Score:2, Insightful)
There is one China, and it does not include Hong Kong. It does not include Taiwan. It does not include the Spratlys, or the Paracels, or the Nine Dash Line, or Tibet. It does not have a future.
Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something HK (Score:2)
Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something about HK
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something HK (Score:4, Insightful)
That's actually pretty easy.
"Hey, is this Xi? Yeah, this is the shitgibbon. Yeah. If you Tianamen Hong Kong, trade between our countries stops. All funds and property in the United States held by the Chinese government or agents acting on their behalf will be frozen. No Chinese owned or flagged vessel or aircraft will enter US territorial waters, airspace, or our ports. All visas for Chinese nationals in the US will be immediately revoked. Every American citizen in the US will immediately leave China, and if you so much as sneeze in their direction while they are leaving, we will consider it an act of war. And you will not get a single penny back on the Treasury bonds you hold.
Yeah. Your move bitch. Have a nice day, Pooh Bear."
Re:Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something HK (Score:5, Insightful)
So war it is then. Only a fool would believe that the Chinese wouldn't see that as an Act of War.
Hong Kong has been under Chinese rule for centuries, minus the 99 years Britain leased it. Like it or not China has a UN-mandated claim to Hong Kong. They even share a border.
It's striking to me that the same people who oppose the US tariff's meant to help the trade imbalance hurting the US are willing to start a hot war where hundreds of thousands (potentially millions) would die over independence for a Chinese territory that has never been independent.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Hong Kong to become independent and be free. I'd also love for world peace to exist and for everyone to have a pony. I'm also an adult who realizes the world is a pretty cruel place and stamping my feet about for virtue points won't change that fact one bit. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it.
Everyone has know for almost 20 years that this day was coming. China isn't stopping anyone there from leaving doesn't want to stay from leaving.
Re:Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something HK (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. People don't realize the strategic importance of Hong Kong to China: the Hong Kong stock exchange is the 3rd largest in Asia and the 2nd largest in China, and unlike other Chinese stock exchanges it's completely open to foreign capital and it lists many of their largest public companies like Tencent It's the way for foreign investment into China. Hong Kong is one of the major economic hubs in the world. HK alone represents like ~4-5 % of the entire Chinese economy, There's simply no way they will let that important of an economic engine go free of their control.
Also agreed. Though the one good thing about the economic importance of the city is that China absolutely does not want it to burn and for the protests to turn violent because the economic impact of that would be massive. At the same time however, this issue is far too important for China domestically that they'll ever cave to any amount of external pressure here: if the government were to allow itself to be swayed by foreign powers here, the precedent this would set for other existing separatist movements within China would be massive. Hong Kong becoming independent would plunge China into massive turmoil, potentially even a civil war,
This is why Beijing is not letting Carrie Lam to resign even though she just privately admitted she'd do so 'if she could'. [reuters.com] They understand that if they start to yield to any demands now, the situation will just escalate. So their plan is simply to wait the protests out: the Chinese state-controlled media and propaganda machine has made sure that the HK protesters have no support in mainland China, so they can just play the long-game here and focus on protecting the city's infrastructure It's a safe bet that Chinese intelligence agencies have people inside the protest movement giving them information about any planned developments ahead of time, so they can't really be caught by surprise.
It might take months, hell it might take years, but eventually China will solidify its hold on HK. They waited a hundred years to get it back from the Brits. A few years more is not really a problem for them.
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder how effective Chinese state media are at keeping their populace oblivious. From what I heard from Eastern Europeans, they were fully aware, that they were lied to by their media and acted accordingly. Folks in China may be much smarter than westerners expect.
Re: (Score:2)
It's striking to me that the same people who oppose the US tariff's meant to help the trade imbalance hurting the US are willing to start a hot war where hundreds of thousands (potentially millions) would die over independence for a Chinese territory that has never been independent.
Wait - what? Where do you get your data that anyone opposed to tariffs is okay with starting world war 3?
Tarriffs don't work, and until recently pretty much everyone in the USA was against them - because they don't work.
Although now they have become a part of the Republican party platform, as their official announcement "Trade wars are good, and easy to win". Now we are in a staring contest, and we'll see who blinks first. Will it be the country that supplies the world, or the one that is trying to unil
Re: (Score:1)
Re: Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something H (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
HK is not analogous to Tiananmen. The CCP saw the Tiananmen protests as an existential threat, and they feared the unrest would spread. They even feared that soldiers would join the protests instead of suppressing them.
There is no chance of that happening now. The HK protesters have zero sympathy in the rest of China.
So there is no urgency, and Beijing is content to let the local HK authorities deal with it until the protests peter out.
Re: (Score:2)
I worry that Beijing's patience will run out because of the bad publicity. It's all being broadcast on the internet.
Also HK is something of a gateway to China now. Lots of people fly there and then take the trade to Shenzhen and Guangzhou, or even just change plane on their way to Beijing and Shanghai.
Re: Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something (Score:2)
I worry that Beijing's patience will run out because of the bad publicity.
Patience and impatience are emotions; if either are displayed, it's still just part of the act.
I'd remind you to think in terms of strategy... but sadly it's you I'm talking to.
Re: Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something H (Score:2)
"Hey, is this Xi? Yeah, this is the shitgibbon. Yeah. If you Tianamen Hong Kong, trade between our countries stops.
It's actually more sad than amusing watching people presume the mindstates and motivations of the puppets who aren't even the ones in charge but don't let me stop you.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. He could make a threat that is so patently, ridiculously empty that he'd cement his position as "Laughing Stock of the Entire World", instead of just one of the century's front-runners so far, the laughing stock of the entire world, but y'know, something productive....
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
Simply follow the agreement they had with Hong Kong but never followed. The deal was that the British would leave and HK would remain democratic. China has never followed that agreement and installed a puppet government.
Re: (Score:2)
Or else what? Seriously, just wishing things and they will happen is not how the real world works.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something H (Score:2)
but meddling in the affairs of other countries is dangerous
Just ask the French; they went and helped create us. ;)
Re: Hail Trump the trade deal needs do something H (Score:2)
Hail Trump
As if that's not going a bit too far...
Re: (Score:2)
Hong Kong was ruled by China for centuries until it became a British colony. The Britain gave control back to China under Treaty. Would you like us to go to war with China over Hong Kong? If not then what do you suggest we do?
Re: (Score:1)
What war? Let the CIA/MI6 do the freedom magic.
Re: (Score:1)
Against China? Is that a joke? That's worked so well in backwards-assed middle-eastern countries, why it wouldn't work against our most capable nuclear-armed rival!
Re: (Score:1)
It won't be like the support given to the Hungarian Revolution in 1956, MEK, Kurds, Tibet, Bay of Pigs.
Its really about the people this time. US songs, US flags, memes. The people want freedom.
Its got that full Serbia look to it.
Wait for the 1989 Tiananmen Square like images to spread globally.
Re: (Score:2)
There is one China, and it does not include Hong Kong.
Let the Hongkongers say that, by voting, like they do in democracy and not through confrontational rallies attended by a fraction of the whole population. But I am sure you would then say that they were not voting freely, because, like Noam Chomsky reminded us [youtube.com], "free" in American English is just a shorter expression for "pleasing the US".
Re:The Beijing State must fall (Score:5, Informative)
You are missing some facts. First, the candidates are chosen by China so the result of a vote does not really say anything. Next, issues are voted on by delegates, only around half of whom are elected by the people, so the people cannot effectively enact their will in that way.
But sure, pretend it's a democracy and that the people can vote to get what they want.
Re: (Score:2)
You know, before 2014 they didn't even have that much democracy. Under British rule, there was no democracy at all - the governor of Hong Kong was a royal appointment. UK itself still has the un-elected House of Lords. It'll change eventually, for better or for worse.
The trouble with what the protesters are doing is it's shutting down the businesses that actually bring money into the territory. HK gets most of its wealth from import/export and financial services companies. If you shut that down, you st
Re: (Score:2)
You know, before 2014 they didn't even have that much democracy. Under British rule, there was no democracy at all.
I'm not sure that is relevant to the protesters. Things are getting worse rather than better. That is the problem of the moment. And now the protests have evolved to be partly about police not following the law. They are simply beating people and indiscriminately firing tear gas. I think that is why the protests have become slightly destructive/violent. (The protesters haven't done any serious harm as far as I know. No police killed, no buildings or cars blown up.)
The trouble with what the protesters are doing is it's shutting down the businesses that actually bring money into the territory. HK gets most of its wealth from import/export and financial services companies. If you shut that down, you strangle the economy. This doesn't endear the protesters to a lot of Hong Kongers. The same thing happened with the 2014 protests about candidates having to be pre-approved by the Party when limited democracy was instituted.
What you are describing did happen, but not
Re: (Score:2)
I work in financial services, have worked in Hong Kong, and know a lot of people affected by the protests. In the 2014 protests, the protesters blockaded Admiralty, which is primarily filled with office towers. The blockaded the major streets and the MTR station. This made it hard
Re: (Score:2)
Thank you for sharing that. Then I will take your prior post as a window into a different segment of the community than that which I hang out with.
Re: (Score:2)
The thing is, the RoC government in Taiwan wouldn't be happy with you saying this. They claim to be the legitimate government of all of China, including Tibet, Hong Kong, disputed regions of Arunachal Pradesh, etc. They draw their borders bigger than the PRC government does. Until recently they claimed Mongolia, too. No-one officially recognises Taiwan as a country - it's an island that happens to be the seat of the RoC
Re: The Beijing State must fall (Score:3)
Well, DOH! (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
The current regime, which is ethno-nationalist with Maoist trappings, has more of a contiguous lineage - in ideology, activity, and effective political base of power - with the former Soviet Union than any it claims to have with the Qing dynasty. And given the Sino-Soviet split during the Cold War, that says a lot.
So their claims of 'woe is us, the meanie colonizers are being mean to us again' are pure Marxist drivel and lies.
Re: (Score:3)
What was the quality of life like for the average Hong Kong citizen before British colonization as compared to after? Why didn't Hong Kong welcome Britain giving up control?
Re: (Score:2)
What was the quality of life like for the average Hong Kong citizen before British colonization as compared to after?
Before the British, there was nothing there but a small fishing village. The British built HK from almost nothing.
Re: (Score:2)
Not really - it was known as a base of pirate operations. People in surrounding areas were quite pleased when the British took control of Hong Kong, because it meant the pirates were kicked out. It sucked for the indigenous people though - they were pretty much enslaved by the Europeans and mainland Chinese who built the colony.
Re: (Score:3)
Hong Kong has never been an independent country.
Re: (Score:2)
Not to mention the pillaging by Mao and his lunatic wife. China's suffered enough under the CCP, time to stick a pin in Jinping and declare him Way Over Cooked.
Re: (Score:2)
Regime change in China is your solution? How would you do that?
Wondering (Score:3)
it was the target of what's known as a distributed denial of service, or DDoS, attack
Good thing they clarified what a DDoS is.
China gonna China (Score:3)
The Chinese government is going to keep doing this unless and until the world agrees to treat them as pariahs a la apartheid South Africa. Short of that, nothing will change. No guarantee they'll budge even if the world does dig in its heels against them, either.
Re: (Score:2)
Treating them as a pariah won't change anything. The CCP will just use it as propaganda. In a few years, the State will have total control over every person within their boundaries. Any deviants will find them selves outside of boundaries of the living.
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt they'll repeat the mistake of purging all their academics and putting themselves decades behind technologically. I'm sure they can find a way to coexist with "loud" but necessary people, much the way the space program put up with Nazis -- because it needed them.
Re: (Score:2)
Texas doesn't need Russia's help. It would be just fine.
Re: (Score:2)
Texas can't secede, they tried that before and lost that privilege.
Let a hundred flowers bloom (Score:5, Insightful)
Let a hundred points of view contend. Mao Zedong 1956.
Then, having identified the flowers, Mao cut them down.
Those web sites, or the apps, or the phones themselves are likely monitored. I fear for the protesters when the crack down comes. Xi will know who is who.
HK protesters use peer2peer mesh network messaging (Score:1)