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Feds Order Apple and Google To Hand Over Names of 10,000+ Users of Gun Scope App (forbes.com) 123

Posted by BeauHD from the bulk-data-grab dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Forbes: Own a rifle? Got a scope to go with it? The government might soon know who you are, where you live and how to reach you. That's because Apple and Google have been ordered by the U.S. government to hand over names, phone numbers and other identifying data of at least 10,000 users of a single gun scope app, Forbes has discovered. It's an unprecedented move: never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go.

According to a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on 5 September, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4, a tool used to control rifle scopes made by night vision specialist American Technologies Network Corp. The app allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device. According to the Google Play page for Obsidian 4, it has more than 10,000 downloads. Apple doesn't provide download numbers, so it's unclear how many iPhone owners have been swept up in this latest government data grab. The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) department is seeking information as part of a broad investigation into possible breaches of weapons export regulations. It's looking into illegal exports of ATN's scope, though the company itself isn't under investigation, according to the order. As part of that, investigators are looking for a quick way to find out where the app is in use, as that will likely indicate where the hardware has been shipped. ICE has repeatedly intercepted illegal shipments of the scope, which is controlled under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), according to the government court filing. They included shipments to Canada, the Netherlands and Hong Kong where the necessary licenses hadn't been obtained. The two companies must hand over names, telephone numbers and IP addresses of anyone who downloaded the scope app from August 1, 2017, to the current date. The government also wants to know when users were operating the app.
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Feds Order Apple and Google To Hand Over Names of 10,000+ Users of Gun Scope App More

Feds Order Apple and Google To Hand Over Names of 10,000+ Users of Gun Scope App

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  • Hunting or Fishing (Score:3)

    by meerling ( 1487879 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @03:58PM (#59166994)
    Sounds like a fishing expedition, as well as phishing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hAckz0r ( 989977 )

      So, now we need an automated zeroing, Infra-Red, zoom, 15x scope just for shooting fish in a barrel? There is even an App for that too!

      Oh, wait. That is why we are all going fishing, isn't it?

      • How can you tell if somebody is a poser?

          When they got a bunch of brand new, expensive gear that shows no wear or tear on it whatsoever. They are often overly decked out in cammo (for example) so in their minds they look like a real (campin'/huntin'/shootin') man.

          I think this scope puts a big "poser" tag on anybody possessing it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          Guy across the street had the big 4WD pickup with the Cummins Turbo-Diesel. I never saw him carry anything heavier than a hide-a-bed, and I'm quite sure it never left the asphalt during its entire life.

      • Re:Hunting or Fishing (Score:5, Informative)

        by yodleboy ( 982200 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @06:11PM (#59167412)

        Seen crops or farmland decimated by feral hogs? They are out there in their millions. It's open season on them, no limits, year round, in Texas. Despite that, it's a losing battle against an animal that can breed at 6 months and spit out 10+ piglets twice a year. Anyway, gear like this is most commonly used by hog hunters since hogs tend to be more active at night. This is one case where being sporting is not on the agenda.

        • Re:Hunting or Fishing (Score:4, Informative)

          by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:21AM (#59168476)
          Also worth pointing out that wild boars are an invasive species [invasivespeciesinfo.gov]. They are not native to North America - they were brought over by early European colonists, and later escaped. The other major invasive species (on land) are European starlings [nyis.info]. They eat crops and aggressively attack native birds.

          In water the list includes lionfish (released by aquarium enthusiasts, and which are now killing off native reef fish around the west Atlantic), sea lampreys (introduced into the Great Lakes when locks were built on the St Lawrence to allow ships to carry cargo between the Great Lakes and the Atlantic), Zebra mussels, and the Snakehead (probably released by immigrants wanting a traditional food source, but is now threatening to enter and wipe out native fish in the Great Lakes)..

          All of these, and many others, are kill on sight. Just because it's a living thing doesn't automatically mean the ecosystem is better off if we let it live. In fact in many of these cases, the problem was started by people who couldn't find a new owner for an unwanted pet, and couldn't bring themselves to kill it. So they foolishly released it into the wild. Sometimes killing the animal is better than allowing it to live. These species are successful because these new locales don't have the predators which keep them in check in their native habitat. So it falls upon us (since we created the problem) to act as predators and kill them off whenever we see them.

          • One of the weird things about this is how government regulation often gets in the way.

            In the case of the lionfish, the government actually is actively encouraging fishermen and divers to take lionfish. They even published recipes and pushed an ad campaign touting them as a delicious fish to eat.

            But in other cases --- the opposite happens.

            Iguanas are rampant and destructive invaders in south Florida. But the government has a lot of rules about how and when you can kill them. They still allow them to be k

    • Yeah, this sounds like fishing at its worst.

      While I can't speak to Google's track record in this area, Apple has a history of pushing back against over-broad (e.g. they said "no" to an unspecified governmen—apparently not the US—that demanded the identities of the 58 million users of a particular app that the government believed was being used by a suicide bomber) and over-reaching (e.g. they said "no" to a court order compelling them to create a backdoored version of iOS that could be used by t

      • Remember how the department of justice just made a statement about looking into the practices of the the giant US tech companies? And now you don't hear anything about that anymore?

        There are already back doors in everything, or there is an agreement.

        Money is more important that principles to these companies.

        If they think that principles will get them more money , then fine.

        Now that Apple has made such a big public showing of their commitment to users privacy it would be the perfect time for them to open up

      • I very much doubt that Apple would simply hand over the data without pushing back hard.

        Not in this case -- Google will rabidly rush for any way to hurt gun rights, about as eagerly as Bolsonaro not following anti-fire laws to "help the poor farmers". For both, the right thing to do conflicts with their agenda, so they have no qualms about not being bastards.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @06:02PM (#59167398)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • If it weren't a fishing expedition then the request would be for people using the app outside the US. The stated reason is no basis for tracking people in the US at all, or people outside the US whose app isn't syncing to a scope.

      • Sounds like hunting to me.

        Sounds like they have a specific crime or specific threat they are trying to reign in.

        And they know the perp used this app.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward
          This is almost the exact definition of a fishing expedition.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mishehu ( 712452 )
        Are judges the ones who write subpoenas? I thought they signed off on warrants. A subpoena can be challenged, whereas usually a warrant, once approved, is (to the best of my knowledge) really difficult if not impossible to fight.

  • It's apparently a gratis download from the Play Store, so people could have got it without even having a Google account.

    • Well hell, I'm downloading it to get in on the class action suit!

      • https://imgur.com/nmTrVOi [imgur.com]

        There you go. I don't own any firearms or scopes, so you'd better have a damn good reason why violating my 4th amendment rights with a fishing expedition that the warrant system was designed to prevent is okay.

        I'll take my check now. (Hey, America, amirite?)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by meglon ( 1001833 )
          Just to point out the obvious.... the app works with a single scope. Unless you have the scope, you have nothing to use the app with.... so downloading it will do one thing: put more shit on your drive you don't/can't use. Grats.

          • Might I point out that the object of installing it is not to use the app.

            The object of installing it is to be among those whose records are pulled for having merely installed it, thereby violating my rights.

            It isn't entrapment (ignore for a moment the actual fact that it wouldn't apply due to the role reversal). The government has demonstrated itself perfectly willing to break the law in that fashion--they wrote it out in a "warrant".

            As is, I didn't bother opening it. Just uninstalled it. Sufficient for my

    • Why would I want an app for a gun scope that was built in 1942?

      • I'm guessing that someone is using this app , possibly in conjunction with other tech, to remote control this weapon.

        Imagine someone anonymously sends a high-up US official a video of his head in a scope and a demand.

        The intelligence agencies are able to determine the perp used this app.

        This would be the next step. I'm just surprised the NRA isn't all over this shit.

        Disclaimer : Not a big NRA fan (original NRA yes, today's NRA no)

  • If ICE has been intercepting ITAR restricted products being sent to non-compliant locations then they should be going after American Technologies Network Corp first and foremost. Otherwise this just seems to be some sort of grab for information that they have no right to have.

    Just because you download an App doesn't make you a criminal

    • They would be if ITN was shipping, but they are likely coming from third parties. Theyâ(TM)ll probably Just get a list of posers. Real shooters spin turrets not fire up apps.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by OzPeter ( 195038 )

        They would be if ITN was shipping, but they are likely coming from third parties.

        Theyâ(TM)ll probably Just get a list of posers. Real shooters spin turrets not fire up apps.

        ITN may not be shipping them, but the government takes a dim view of someone letting their ITAR restricted products end up in non-compliant locations.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          ITN may not be shipping them, but the government takes a dim view of someone letting their ITAR restricted products end up in non-compliant locations.

          They don't really, they only get upset when either you don't have any controls in place or are actively skirting the restrictions.

          If ATN verifies the purchaser as allowable under the restrictions and there is no reason at all for them to think the purchaser would be trying to bypass those restrictions, nothing more is expected.

          ATN by all accounts does verify buyers.
          Those buyers that are resellers likely are legit enough to the feds too, given that ATN isn't under investigation. Part of ITAR requires report

        • Thing is, per the regs (https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=86008bdffd1fb2e79cc5df41a180750a&node=22:1.0.1.13.58&rgn=div5) a rifle scope "made to military specifications" is an ITAR item.

          I can't find a definition of what ITAR says that means, and I've seen it used enough in (crap product) advertising, etc. to know it really doesn't mean anything unless the item has a NSN entry...

          And yes, I do know of a small town gun shop owner that sold a rifle scope and shipped it internationally and got thr

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by meglon ( 1001833 )

      Just because you download an App doesn't make you a criminal

      Read more. No one has said that it does.

    • Well, and to be fair, anyone who is a suspect in a crime isn't a criminal either.

  • 4th Amendment much? (Score:3)

    by duke_cheetah2003 ( 862933 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:05PM (#59167016) Homepage

    The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. Tor Ekeland, a privacy focused lawyer, said it amounted to a "fishing expedition." (The DOJ hadn’t responded to a request for comment at the time of publication).

    This really seems to butt up against 4th amendment protections. You can't just blanket search people (or their data, theoretically) without a warrant or at least probable cause.

    I smell legal challenges to this. It's also very strange this is coming from this administration. They seem so gun friendly, after all.

    Even with the stated reasoning (something regarding ITAR?), this seems really odd and dubious. It doesn't seem legal in any perspective to blanket demand this data on US Citizens, regardless of what is going on with these scopes and related apps.

    • Re:4th Amendment much? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:13PM (#59167042)

      You can't just blanket search people (or their data, theoretically) without a warrant or at least probable cause.

      YES WE CAN: US Congress has in fact been moving in the opposite direction of protecting people against this type of behavior,
      for example, by passing the CLOUD act, which has the ultimate effect of nullifying the ECPA's protections [epic.org]
      But in this particular case the whole point is they are writing their own court order to do it (Even though they might not have had to -- they actually got a court order and made their little private DOJ puppet courts rubber stamp the order, as you can expect they will do for any such request: In general burden is on the law enforcement department to stay within the law), Therefore, they WILL in fact have a warrant
      According to a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on 5 September, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4,
       

      Authorities ARE allowed to blanket search information in the hands of a third party vendor: until such time as congress passes a law to prevent it.
      People might well be reminded to consider remembering that fact: before uploading any particular file or piece of data up to the cloud. Once it leaves your private home and gets stored on someone else's premises: the 4th amendment protections are essentially gone.

      • Authorities ARE allowed to blanket search information in the hands of a third party vendor

        No, you're wrong. Twitter went through this, lost, but the details of it's loss were to do with the fact that tweets are publicly available.
        You can read about it all . [zwillgen.com]

        So basically, Twitter lost the chance to toss out the evidence against this guy, but only because tweets are publicly accessible. It's mentioned in this article that emails and such are certainly covered by the 4th amendment.

        • Re:4th Amendment much? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @07:09PM (#59167560)

          No, you're wrong. Twitter went through this, lost, but the details of it's loss were to do with ...

          Nope... You're still wrong, and you failed to cite even a relevant case. Citing instead a case that ruled in the opposite direction refusing to quash the subpoena. Fact Tweets had been public: means the judge did not make an opinion either way.

          You would be better to at least look at U.S. v. Warshak; However, I would point out, that ALL the orders in the direction of preventing mass-search ONLY applies to the CONTENT of private Communications such as E-mail messages, and Not other Data or information, Meta Data, Records of contact or Transactions, Etc: such as What users downloaded and installed or used a certain application, or examining purchase records, Orders, Location Records, etc.

          Basically, As long as the material being sought is not CONTENT of Letters or E-mail message bodies, actual Recordings (or maybe transcript) of private person-to-person voice messages, Or similar... No warrants necessary

          • U.S. vs Warshak - very interesting. Thank you.

            After reading this, I cna't make heads or tails of any of it:

            As stated by the United States Supreme Court, the purpose of the Fourth Amendment is "to safeguard the privacy and security of individuals against arbitrary invasions by government officials."[13] To fall under the protection of the Fourth Amendment, the invasion by government officials must arise to the level of a search, which occurs when the government infringes upon "an expectation of privacy that society is prepared to consider reasonable."[14] Thus, there is a two-part inquiry to decide if an invasion by the government qualifies as an unreasonable search under the Fourth Amendment:[15]

            - has the defendant manifested a subjective expectation of privacy in the object of the challenged search?
            - is society willing to recognize that expectation as reasonable?

            Anytime I read some law written like this, I want to run away.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by mysidia ( 191772 )

              The important thing to recognize here is what the Supreme Courts have deemed as a matter of law: No individual rights are absolute.
              In determining under what circumstances the constitution creates and protects an individual right:
              there is a balancing involved between needs and desires of government acting on behalf of the public against needs and desires of the individual.

              The constitution empowers the supreme court to determine this by "interpreting" the constitution, and also, the Federal courts review a

              • This has got to be the most informative replay I've ever received. Thank you, seriously.

                It sounds like the government can put whatever it wants inside the box of "mass data gathering". That sucks.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by e3m4n ( 947977 )

        The fishing comes in if they prosecute you for something else while looking for this thing. The blanket thing is supposed to be limited to just the narrow view of finding illegal exports. I dont have this scope or this app but it had me curious. If i was the scope vendor i would make available the .apk for side load installation.

        • You can side-load it, I believe, but for my purposes, it's better to make sure they know it's me downloading. After all, when this goes to court, I want my 35 cents settlement.

          Also, I want to make a point.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by mysidia ( 191772 )

            I have a sudden urge to start downloading and using Free scope apps, even if I don't actually own the scope...
            Perhaps they could make an update to their App which allows it to be used for some minor purpose, even by people who don't own their scope.

    • I smell legal challenges to this.

      But that will be after the fact. They have the data now and likely always will.

    • > It's also very strange this is coming from this administration. They seem so gun friendly, after all.

      No, this administration is not "gun friendly". Nor is Trump a Second Amendment (or any other Amendment, for that matter) fan.

      What he is is a bit paranoid about the possibility that someone might shoot him. Which wouldn't surprise me terribly (only reason I can see that noone has done him in yet is that the majority of the people who really want to do him in are so anti-gun that they'd never be able t

      • "So, maybe, just maybe, this just crept up to the level of the inner circle's consciousness and someone decided he'd rather do something unpopular than get popped...."

        But then he becomes a martyr, we get Pence as president (who is even more willing to bow to the extreme right's wishes than Trump is), and we will see a super mega lockdown of the entire country because the prez got killed. If you think the reaction after 9/11 was bad.....

        Far better to see Trump disgraced and impeached (though

  • The best gun is a ghost gun.
  • this will be squashed as too broad. Also this is kind of why ICE makes the left nervous. Their mandates way, way, _way_ too broad. Immigration and Customs don't belong under the same roof. And that's just for a start.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by nwaack ( 3482871 )

      This is kind of why ICE makes the left nervous.

      Every time I think that you can't post anything dumber you go and surprise me (shame on me for thinking your willful ignorance actually has bounds). Have you actually watched a single SECOND of the Democratic debates? They unequivocally value illegal immigrants over American citizens, and that is why they don't like ICE. It has nothing to do with the powers they have or this particular incredibly stupid information grab. But you already knew that, you just don't care because you're one of the most egotistic

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by e3m4n ( 947977 )

        Yep. I always give people credit for owning what they say. I may not agree with them, sometimes ever, but at least they own it.

        • and he still is. I started listening and realizing he was right. YouTube channels like Secular Talk, Beau of the Fifth Column and Contrapoints along with guys like John Oliver and Jon Stewert opened my eyes. Watching a buddy of mine with Type 1 diabetes (the kind your born with) struggle to get insulin while venture capitalists buy up all the life saving meds helped too.

          I sincerely hope your eyes open up before it's too late. You're aging too. So is everyone you love. At some point a venture capitalist

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by e3m4n ( 947977 )

            When it comes to healthcare you might be surprised to know My views probably arent much different in the final result than yours. Its just the implementations I have heard proposed have some serious issues. People latch onto the ‘i wont have to pay’ part and start demanding that particular answer. But all these designs, they fail to address one serious problem. They arent regulating the cost for services or the cost on the groups that make the supplies for the service providers. Your effectively

            • You don't seem to understand the basic economics problems. With private health care, the individual is making decisions for themselves and so they are willing to pay as much as is asked of them. Single payer flips that around. When you only have one customer, the customer tells you what the price is, not the other way around.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by e3m4n ( 947977 )

                Apologies for any misspellings and grammar error I’m using Siri to dictate ...
                You don’t think I understand single payer? That’s not true at all. I was in the military for six years. It really doesn’t get much more single-payer than that. See as long as other expenses work their way into the system the provider can lobby the payer for more money. I see this happen all the time in other things when the government foots the bill. In the military they at least didn’t

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Compare his UID to your own. "These days" doesn't really apply considering he's been around since the old days. While I find him to be overly partisan and sometimes blinded by ideology, he also often provides sources and demonstrates knowledge regarding the topics he harps on. I often disagree with his takes but I find them interesting.

        You, on the other hand retorted with a personal attack and a ridiculous talk-radio retort. Value illegal immigrants over American citizens? Really?

        Posted AC so I could mod yo

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by meglon ( 1001833 )
        And everything you just posted is what's wrong with a lot of conservatives these days: they're basically fucking idiots who think they know what's going on, but really don't.

        They unequivocally value illegal immigrants over American citizens

        The "left" values people, regardless of the color of their skin or their sexual orientation... unlike the right who have devolved into this bigoted, race-baiting, misogynistic, fascist cult who think the only people who should have any say are white male evangelicals. They've embraced the white supremacists and neo-nazis, and are acti

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by nwaack ( 3482871 )
          I didn't vote for Trump, I have voted Democrat in the past, and more recently I've been voting Independent as long as they're not nutjobs. But please, make some more giant assumptions based on a few sentences I wrote and tell me again how I'm such a terrible person for being a Conservative. You tool.

      • Over American citizens? Citation please? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:59PM (#59168048)
        Of the 3 remaining serious candidates (Biden, Warren, Bernie) none of them favor open borders. Biden would likely crack down hard on illegal immigration, just like Obama did.

        And you know what, so the fuck what? Illegal immigrants mostly end up picking fruit or packing meat. Two of the worst jobs in the world that it's hard to find Americans for. Meanwhile H1-Bs and H2-Bs are let in like crazy by both the GOP and the right wing Democrats.

        And again, so the fuck what. You do know what our birth rate is, right? Some of that is because of a bad economy, but a _lot_ of it is because people with options have fewer children. Like your 401k? Like a functioning economy? Don't want to be in permanent recession ala Japan? Then your choices are immigrants for forced births. Not that there aren't people on the GOP side in favor of the latter.

        Finally, go look up Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube. Most of those immigrants come from countries we turned into hell holes for cheap oil and fruit. We created MS-13. The CIA trained the guy who started it, then we shipped a fuck ton of criminals back to a country we knew didn't have the infrastructure to deal with them after we trained those criminals to destabilize the local gov't we didn't like.

        To any decent human being those refugees, fleeing the violence _we_ caused have every right to flee here.

        So to summarize:

        1. They're not taking your jobs, robots, automation and H1 and H2-bs are.

        2. You let the GOP and right wing Dems like Biden set fire to their homes and now you're shooting them as they flee. That's horrific.

        3. Unless you're gonna ban birth control and legalize rape our birthrate means we need them to maintain a functioning economy.

        So yeah, pull your head out of your... where ever and wake the fuck up. The right wing is playing you like a harp.

  • Gun scope app is the new PGP (Score:3)

    by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:06PM (#59167024)

    Remember how the feds tried, foolishly, to crack down [wikipedia.org] on the distribution of PGP in 1990s?

  • a riflescope seems like just a gimmick that would have limited utility, unless you could combine it with remote aiming and remotely pulling the trigger.

    That would make the government shit themselves.

    • It doesnâ(TM)t just have remote viewing, the app can compute a firing solution and control the scope to make the necessary adjustments.
      • It sounds like this app could make the next Las Vegas mass shooting much deadlier.

        Therefore I expect the NRA to complain loudly and angrily about any attempts to restrict access to the app. "Right to snipe" and all that rot.

        • Yes, it sure beats all of those hours of practicing at the range,

          I bet the lazy-ass mass shooter who relies on this is not be the brightest bulb in the bunch either. Hopefully, he will slip up bad, and be on his way to bunking with Bubba before he manages to fire off a single shot when he goes on his 'rampage'.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • uh, no. The guy was using a bumpstock, which makes aiming impossible scope or not. Spray & pray. Maybe the next sniper...but haven't heard of a serial sniper publicly since that duo in DC many, many years back. You also know that bare hands kill more people each year than all rifles combined, don't you? So maybe we should be restricting access to hands rather than this app...

          • You also know that bare hands kill more people each year than all rifles combined, don't you?

            Just curious: Would you have a link to that information? And can you be a bit more specific: Do you mean "rifles" or "guns"? Because rifles are as far as I know responsible for not more than 10% of gun deaths. And do you mean "murder" or "killing"? Because 2/3rds of all gun deaths are suicides. Can't see many people killing themselves "with bare hands".

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lgw ( 121541 )

          This is technology invented in WW2, just in a modern package (and simpler versions before that). Better scopes do all the ballistic calculations in the scope itself, but that's more expensive. Not sure how you think you'd restrict something that was worked out over 70 years ago with simple analog components. Oh, sure, it's miniaturized and convenient now, but you're not going to unring that bell.

      • It seems like they made a very tasty honeypot.

        I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for a second and suggest the possibility that the app was posted to those 'stores' just so the government can pull this shit.

      • The scope can do that itself. The app is more of a remote control/viewer.

    • Re:Remote viewing (Score:4, Funny)

      by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:28PM (#59167106)

      a riflescope seems like just a gimmick that would have limited utility, unless you could combine it with remote aiming and remotely pulling the trigger.

      That's one of the more abstruse excessories for the Amazon Ring.

      Instead of just yelling at the kids to get off your lawn . . . you can remotely shoot them.

      Stand your ground!

      Remotely.

      • If I wanted to make a remote control gun, I would do it 80s style, using model airplane (not drone) radio remote control. No telemetry, verification with the mothership, or any of that garbage that the spooks are listening in on,

      • Stand your ground!

        Remotely.

        Stand your ground, from someone else's ground!

    • Re:Remote viewing (Score:4, Informative)

      by chiefcrash ( 1315009 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @05:31PM (#59167320)
      This already exists. I remember a ranch in Texas had one set up during the early 2000s. They were going to set up some sort of internet hunting outfit for disabled people...

      And the government already freaked out over it. Within a few years, forty U.S. states had enacted laws or regulations to ban internet hunting...

      • I remember the internet hunting thing too. I'm wondering what kind of safeguards they had in place for that. Did they have a human attendant to stop the gun if it was being aimed at something it shouldn't? How good was the security though I don't think I should even ask this one. Compared to now, internet security was like a hook and eye latch that can be opened with a piece of paper slid through where the door meets the jamb, Almost nobody was using https back then. And most people were running Windows 95

  • it's such a big and easy target, everyone will be going after it for the P.R. value alone.

  • Apple and Google know who I am, Slashdot knows who I am since I had to identify bicycles in order to post this. Seems like the government is the only authority that doesn't know who I am. Are you sure you've purchased the correct brand of tinfoil?

  • This is what this "app" is. Only the malware here is the heavily armored goons who might want to pay you a visit,.

      Is there an "app" (or anything "smart") that IS NOT some kind of scumware?

  • There's the "system's" mistake. (Score:3)

    by slashdot_commentator ( 444053 ) on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:56PM (#59167206) Journal

    The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) department is seeking information as part of a broad investigation into possible breaches of weapons export regulations. It's looking into illegal exports of ATN's scope [...] The two companies must hand over names, telephone numbers and IP addresses of anyone who downloaded the scope app from August 1, 2017,

    ICE should only have gotten numeric IDs to match phone numbers and IP addresses, and then ICE should have separately requested a warrant for names and specific information attached to the numeric ID. Everyone's "privacy" is kept, while LEOs can still data mine for criminals under the purview of the courts.

  • It seems like exploring it might not be advisable right now. What does the app actually do? I have purchased scopes before and installed and adjusted them on my own just fine without a smart phone app (or even a cell phone at all for that matter). Why does someone need an app for it?

    • Itâ(TM)s a smart scope, basically a digital camera in a scope with processing abilities. The scope itself will adjust ballistics and record a shot, and the phone app acts as a remote control and viewer.

  • If they are looking for illegal exports, they should at LEAST have restricted the request to numbers and addresses NOT in the U.S. They don't need to track a farmer in Kansas if they're looking for exported scopes.

    The only people in the U.S. they have any legal interest in are just shipping product, not downloading and using the app.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by meglon ( 1001833 )
      The only way the information for people in the US would be useful is if it's a secondhand sell. I can't see someone just reselling a new one bothering to use the app to sight it in first.
  • is going to download it , spoof the location to some funny place like Facebook headquaters or the white house

  • Everybody should run TOR on their phone/pad and then download the Obsidium app.

    Let's see how the feds deal with that.

  • google employees along with the rest of the crazy silicon valley Socialist would be falling all over themselves to cooperate.
    Heck Silicon Valley probably routes all their traffic through China unencrypted as a friendly favor since China is such a paragon of human rights and virtue.
    By proclamation silicon valley is 100% onboard in creating the Chinese surveillance state to help humanity.
    Unlike the US Military who they do not work for or assist in any way shape or form.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

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