'OK' is Now a Hate Symbol, the ADL Says (cnn.com) 495
The "OK" hand gesture is now a hate symbol, according to a new report by the Anti-Defamation League. From a report: The ADL added that symbol along with several others on Thursday to its long-standing database of slogans and symbols used by extremists. The finger-and-thumb OK sign is universally known for meaning everything is all right or approval of something. But the ADL says while not everyone means it to be hateful, the sign has been co-opted by the alt-right.
A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Funny)
*ah crap*
Sorry guys. It just slipped out. No hate here.
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Saying "OK" still OK; flashing the symbol is what they consider a hate symbol now!
All a bit silly, and it did indeed start out as a joke; although now really is used as a hate symbol by some, which in itself seems silly.
Unlike the swastika which (in the west at least) has had long term damage done to it (despite originally being a wholesome symbol before the Nazi's coopted it); I suspect the damage to the "ok hand-signal" is temporary. Give it 5 years and it will go back to meaning what it always has. It'
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm afraid they can go fuck themselves. Lots of hand signals are considered offensive in different parts of the world. That particular one isn't here and never will be. They can be wrong about it all they want. I will continue to use it for OK as I have done since I was a child. They can change their perceptions, don't expect me to for their comfort and validation.
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"They can change their perceptions, don't expect me to for their comfort and validation."
That attitude makes you a hater. Be careful expressing that. People are being forced to resign from media, academia, and other positions for expressing nothing more than what you said here. Stop paying attention for just a decade because you are busy in the work, eat, sleep cycle and not staying trendy and pretty much everything you say and do will be offensive and evil.
Just last night my little brother put on "You don'
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Funny)
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Eh. Try getting Blazing Saddles made even in 1980, let alone today, even though its message is thoroughly anti-racist.
That's three funny movies there, Blazing Saddles, You Don't Mess With the Zohan, and the 40 year old Virgin.
Do you think "The Producers" is acceptable to today's outrage mob?
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The most outraged people are usually fake shit by russians or some clickbait by xojane or shit like that. In the case of the latter the audience isn't feminists. The audience is outraged men who are offended by the idea that women are making proclamations about what a reasonable level of testicular comfort should be for men.
The russians are also doing this with black people, christians, etc. Anything to give voice to the most retarded 1% of any given american subculture.
ADL has a clue; many slashdotters not (Score:5, Informative)
Oren Segal, director of the ADL's Center on Extremism, told NPR that for years on fringe online message boards such as 4chan and 8chan, the "OK" sign has been deployed in memes and other images promoting hate. Given the number of white supremacists who have adopted it, he said it can now carry a nefarious message.
"Context is always key," Segal said. "More people than not will use the OK symbol as just 'OK.' But in those cases where there's more underlining meaning, I think it's important for people to understand that it could be used, and is being used, for hate as well."
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26... [npr.org]
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The Slashdot headline and summary are exceptionally bad, to the point of being deceptive. As you quote and TFA points out, all they have done is identify the OK hand gesture as something that white supremacists/nationalists use to unironically signal to each other sometimes.
An example of where it is useful to know this is the Christchurch terrorist. He made that gesture in court while being photographed. It suggests he was not acting alone or unconnected from others on the far right who use the symbol, and
Re:ADL has a clue; many slashdotters not (Score:5, Insightful)
There's enough threads regarding "hey guys, let's trick the MSM into thinking ____ " that anyone with a thinking, working brain would realize that 4chan is more about trolling and the 'lulz' than anything else by a huge margin.
God damn they managed to convince people that pepe and/or wojack are somehow neo-nazi symbols. Just wait til they see that spicy NPC meme! it'll blow their minds.
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not used as a hate symbol by anyone. It's used specifically in response to articles like these, so that people will think that white supremacists have any power. The only power they actually have is what the media gives them.
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
hold up... racism is no illusion. It's still there! The illusion is the amount of it and where it is coming from.
Racism will always exist, and it exists in every culture to some degree. Right now there is plenty of racism coming in from all sorts of places, the illusion is that white people are the sole source of it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Informative)
lol, according to certain groups my white/male/christian status makes me the ultimate bad guy but I do not feel oppressed. I just feel sad for all the morons letting people whip them into a moronic frenzy.
I have been physically assaulted for being white but how many people do you think gives a fuck about that? Just about zero... now if I had a different skin color... then I could be big time news!
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Informative)
I think what they are trying to point out is that there are online trolls who use the Okay finger gestures as a anti semantic sign, which, they are right about, not that EVERY use of the okay symbol is racist. It's so that when people see a strangely childlike drawing of pepe flashing the OK in response to an article about Israel online, they will understand the context, which you wouldn't normally understand unless you frequent /pol/.
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the problem nowadays, it seems NOTHING seems to blow over anymore.
Once someone gets offended, that word or gesture is immediately banned and ostracized from media and the public speaking place.
I think at some point soon, people are going to have to stand up, and in unison say "fuck it", you have no freedom from being offended.
And leave it at that.
Grow some fuckin thicker skin and if something offends you, turn the channel, leave the room..or sure say you're offended, but the rest of us have GOT to stop saying you can't say this, or you can't say that.
The only way to not offend someone, is to just not say, do or interact with anyone at all.
And constantly throwing the racist or -phobia terms around are causing them to lose all actual meaning for things that are seriously egregious!.
I will say however, I don't get -phobia terms....I don't know of anyone actually scared of whomever they are -phobia'ed about....they may disagree with them, hell they might not like them, but please find another term more meaningful that PHOBIA.....no one is afraid of these groups.
Now...get off my lawn.
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That's the problem nowadays, it seems NOTHING seems to blow over anymore.
Once someone gets offended, that word or gesture is immediately banned and ostracized from media and the public speaking place.
I think at some point soon, people are going to have to stand up, and in unison say "fuck it", you have no freedom from being offended.
And leave it at that.
I think that's already beginning to happen. Look at the kimono prom dress where the majority of people in Japan (and Asian Americans) told the "my culture is not your prom dress" accuser where to stick their over-sensitivity.
I think the world really needs to find a balance. On one hand, there are people out there who really are racist and insensitive assholes; for this being the 21st century there are way too many racists out there still. People know better, there is no excuse to be racist in the 21st ce
Re:A little late to the game, but okay... (Score:4, Insightful)
What I would suggest is, if you want to be taken seriously and not just casually dismissed as an uneducated lout, don't be a jackass.
Now as for why I would think that the OK symbol can't be easily coopted long term is because of something called the Lindy Effect. Basically, what that states is that, the longer something has existed and the more widely used it is, the longer that that thing is likely to continue to exist. The OK symbol has a long and wide used history with a very well-known meaning in the West; it is much harder (but not impossible) to derail the meaning of the OK symbol than it is "Pepe the Frog" which had only been around for a few years and not known by most people already.
Essentially it says that an idea or technology has inertia, and the longer it's been building up inertia, the harder it is to stop.
but history seems to show that the most stupid things are what "tends" to sticks out the most.
Lots of stupid ideas die quick deaths. "Pet rocks", "Planking", "Tide Pod Challenge", "Birdbox challenge", "Beanie Baby mania" (if you weren't around in the 90's, people went crazy over buying mass-produced cheap beanie babies convinced that they would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few decades; the top selling magazines for several months were beanie baby collectors magazines in some places).
Most stupid ideas and fads die out. It is the minority that have any lasting power.
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I still want to know why Zionist Jewish Americans in the alt-right are considered anti-semitic.
What else is co-opted by the alt-right? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What else is co-opted by the alt-right? (Score:5, Informative)
https://psmag.com/news/why-is-... [psmag.com]
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Well the swastika is really a Hindu symbol... when you take something over and make it a famous hate symbol... you fuck over that thing pretty good. I.e. Hitler also ruined a perfectly good comedic mustache. I blame the Nazis.
Re:What else is co-opted by the alt-right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes you have to consider the level of things. 4-chan jokingly posting some images doesn't quite raise to the same level as if they put the "OK" hand symbol on weapons of war and then conquering multiple countries and systematically mass-murdering millions of people.
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There's an interesting letter that JRR Tolkien wrote in which he condemns the Nazi for perverting Northern European culture and civilization by associating itself so closely with Germanic myth. It's a sad thing when the hate-filled co-opt symbolism that predates them, and indeed it can pervert it. Wagner did much the same thing with his anti-Semitic views. It's hard to listen to his music, which, as much as Tolkien, celebrated Germanic culture, without realizing that this great mind was stained by evil view
Re: What else is co-opted by the alt-right? (Score:4, Informative)
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Its also important to remember, for the original Buddhist swastika, the "bent" arms go left (counter clockwise from the top), the Nazi Swastika, the arms bend to the right... (clockwise)
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The use of the swastika in India predates Buddhism and the arms can be rotated both ways.
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Its something else that people remember Hitler by some generic symbol, but forget all about the Armenian genocide [youtu.be] that came to the world years just before Hitler's insanity.
Only because people are stupid and ridiculously focus on the symbols used by a past regime which has been extinguished. The Nazi party was extinguished, so there is no reason the design shouldn't be reclaimed and used for good --- Crush hate by appropriating messages that are hateful and make it a symbol in support of the victims
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Re:KKK and double standards (Score:5, Informative)
Its weird how the Swastika is verbotten because Hitler used it but the Cross is not verbotten even though the KKK used it.
They were burning them, so not exactly a sign of respect for the symbol.
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I guess you haven't seen the KKK's logo before?
Sure I have, but that's not the kind of cross typically associated with Christianity. Most Christian denominations will depict the cross as having a longer vertical stroke than the horizontal one.
For instance:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... [wikimedia.org]
http://images.clipartpanda.com... [clipartpanda.com]
https://internetmonk.com/wp-co... [internetmonk.com]
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Wait, so all someone needs to do to make a symbol verbotten is attach it to a negative event?
So if If someone displays the cross while doing something wrong it's okay to outlaw it? how about taking the peace symbol, the rainbow, or donkey and then performing a mass shooting? Are you going to then be okay with having all 3 outlawed as well? I am pretty sure that would not be okay with peaceniks, christians & homosexuals, and Democrats. A few Republicans might think its funny though.
It is stupid to ha
Re:KKK and double standards (Score:5, Informative)
I dont want the cross to be verbotten. The point I am trying to make is the fact that the Swastika is verbotten is ridiculous. To paraphrase the great words of our first Somali Congresswomen "Some people did something in some European countries 70 years back " and a Billion Hindus cant display their 3000 year old symbol in a large swathe of the world. Do you get how ridiculous that is?
Re:KKK and double standards (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, as bad as the KKK are (and they are vile and immoral bastards), they didn't take over much of Europe, kill millions of Jews and Gypsies. The Nazis represented as existential threat to Western European civilization, the KKK were a bunch of southern fuckers who couldn't accept that the Confederacy had lost the Civil War, and wanted to blame African-Americans for the audacity of wanting to have the same rights and freedoms they enjoyed. Let's put it this way, a decidedly more modest evil in geopolitical terms.
Re:KKK and double standards (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, no offense, but you are underestimating the Klan by quite a bit. FIrst of all, while it is true, they didn't take over a whole nation, they did carve out a significant portion of ours. There were whole states where non Klan politicians were literally beaten and run off, and not confederate ones. In the early 20s, the Klan enjoyed wide acceptance of many places we would consider liberal bastions today, for instance, the mayor of L.A. was a proud klansman. Much or Oregon was staunch klan supporters. The klan held huge rallies in NYC. It is hard to find any part of America where the Klan didn't have a significant and open presence. And while it is also true they didn't kill millions, it is certainly true that they killed thousands, if not tens of thousands. They organized bombings, killed women and children, and the whole while they were burning crosses and wearing capes emblazoned with crosses.
People like to pretend that the Klan is something that only happened in the south, but it was and is national. Nobody is from a place where they didn't have significant and open influence at one time or another.
I will say, though, the reason the cross gets a pass is because people are able to separate it from the Klan. They go to church every sunday and see it as the symbol of their god, not of the Klan. However, they don't have the same perspective on other religions. They associate the swastika with the only context they have seen it in. The only time they hear Allahu Akbar is in the context of terrorism, so you can't shout "god is the greatest" in a crowd any more.
I don't think it is bias really, just ignorance.
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Millions more were killed under the banner of a hammer and a sickle. We should also ban that symbol as well. Why not just go ahead and ban ALL hammers and sickles while we're at it?
You must recall that only the right is bad and should be banned. The left always give their own a pass. The Soviets merely get a slap on the wrist for being too enthusiastic.
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Whataboutism much? The total deaths of Soviet citizens in the Second World War were somewhere between 22 and 28 million people.
NSDAP also killed many times more than KKK (Score:2)
Its weird how the Swastika is verbotten because Hitler used it but the Cross is not verbotten even though the KKK used it.
You observe that people associate all swastikas with National Socialism, whereas they associate only two specific cross symbols, the MIOAK (equal-armed cross with a blood drop in a rotated square at center) [adl.org] and the fiery cross [wikipedia.org], with the Ku Klux Klan movement. One key difference is that as I understand it, NSDAP was directly responsible for orders of magnitude more civilian deaths than KKK organizations. This means a larger fraction of the public are the children of survivors of NSDAP atrocities than KKK atr
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The island hopping campaign did indeed face Japanese soldiers who were suicidal and fought to the last man, even when it would have benefited their war effort to pull back. They began spending their soldiers lives more wisely, but the fierceness in battle without regard to personal death was undimmed. The change US soldiers saw was a result of facing inexperienced soldiers instead of effi
Swastikas (Score:2)
Hindus find it extremely irritating in the West that one of their holy symbols which means Good Luck is looked at weirdly when they put it on new Cars or Apartment doorways.
The Swastika was a holy symbol for 3000 years before Hitler coopted it and now its verbotten.
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The Swastika was a holy symbol for 3000 years before Hitler coopted it and now its verbotten.
The Hindu "swastika [wikipedia.org]" goes the other direction. I guess you can't expect too many people to notice the difference though. I think it is ironic though that Antifa has decided to use the same colors [twimg.com] as the Nazis.
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Re:Swastikas (Score:5, Funny)
Well, their corporate symbol represents original sin.
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Hindus find it extremely irritating in the West that one of their holy symbols which means Good Luck is looked at weirdly when they put it on new Cars or Apartment doorways.
The Swastika was a holy symbol for 3000 years before Hitler coopted it and now its verbotten.
Verboten? Visit Nepal or far western China. Swastiks (no ending 'a') are all over the place on temples and graveyards.
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You think cheese is bad? Think about breathing! 100% of alt-righters breathe!
Yes, but they breathe through their mouths; I breathe through my nose usually.
Re:What else is co-opted by the alt-right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Lmao, I feel like these people need to realize that the "alt-right" are just doing this stuff to fuck with them because it's funny.
How to Discredit Your Organization (Score:3, Insightful)
The left is scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find a reason for everyone and their cat to be offended.
The ADL is doing a fantastic job of exemplifying how racism and bigotry foster themselves: someone you don't like does something, use that something to label millions of people in a negative way.
The ADL wants everyone to hate the millions of people who use the ok sign because the ADL is run by bigots.
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This is pure victim mentality. And cultural Marxism. Look, these evil fascists stole our OK sign and since it's theirs now, if you use it you're one of them!
Re:How to Discredit Your Organization (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:How to Discredit Your Organization (Score:4, Informative)
Did you actually read the article?
It's very reasoned.
It is in the database because people have been talking about it.
The article mentions that any use is most likely the OK sign or the circle game, but it is included because there is unironic use of it to virtue signal too.
This is what they do, catalog and offer guidance.
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Yes, let's get rid of dictionaries too.
Not universal (Score:5, Informative)
The "OK" sign means , "evil eye", "asshole" or "worth nothing" in some cultures.
See more at wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Stupid (Score:2, Interesting)
Will the ADL find that people say that Israel is run by evil Jews a hateful statement?
Where does this insanity end? Speech is speech. Yes, sometimes certain patterns of words are offensive along with emoji combination and pictographs. But sometimes a bowl haircut emoji or an OK symbol is just that. Or are we going to ban D
How do you tell (Score:2)
If it's a hate OK or an okay OK?
Is thumbs down now an anti-hate symbol?
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Oh, never mind. Nice play 4chan
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If it's a hate OK or an okay OK?
Depends on what color Emoji you use. But apparently even using a darker emoji if you're white will offend some people. [techcrunch.com]
Any gesture can be a hate symbol (Score:2)
Or simultaneoulsy ominous AND considerate (Score:2)
https://pbfcomics.com/comics/y... [pbfcomics.com]
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That's all this list is. It's a list of what has been used as a hate symbol before, describing a state, not prescribing what people should or shouldn't use in any other context.
If someone is showing a dozen items from this list in places with unclear context or where they appear out of place, that might be cause for alarm... but no particular symbol really matters much on its own.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, after all...
It must be true if ADL and CNN say it, right? (Score:4, Insightful)
But if you're from another culture where it means something other than "Ok" or what the ADL/CNN claims it is, that must make the ADL or CNN actually racist.
'OK' is Now a Hate Symbol (Score:5, Funny)
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Depends on context and orientation (Score:2)
Doing up in the air, fingers up, and perhaps accompanied by a smile or wink is just saying "OK".
Doing it down low, fingers pointed down, and looking like black people just peed in your cereal is "alt-right".
Diving sign (Score:2)
The OK sign is universally used in diving - time to select a new sign? Thumbs up won't work, perhaps the middle finger will be less offensive than the OK sign.
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The OK sign is universally used in diving - time to select a new sign?
To be fair, most people I know that do a lot of diving are white, sounds like those racist divers were ahead of the trend here in coopting the OK sign.
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ADL is a joke. (Score:2)
ADL is a fucking huge pathetic excuse of a joke. Let me guess, they didn't get enough donations from their regular hucksterism so they need to gin up the boogy man more to scare people into donating.
Look how many racists there are because we define everyone as racist. Donate to us to not be called a racist.
Generation Snowflake. (Score:3)
Re:Generation Snowflake. (Score:4, Informative)
They literally spend their entire time trying to find things to offend them.
It's one of the symptoms of affluenza [merriam-webster.com] (definition A).
Re:Generation Snowflake. (Score:5, Insightful)
The concept that they think "The Authorities" are somehow responsible to protect them from being offended is so fundamentally unAmerican, not to mention pathetic, that it makes be despair for the future. "The Authorities" are actually there to, at least indirectly, to *make sure someone has the right to offend you*, not prevent it.
nice things (Score:3)
Do hate symbols reverse like negatives (Score:3)
So much peace these days... (Score:2, Insightful)
That they now have to go to extremes to drag every last inch of "perceived" prejudice and display it as though the next holocaust is already underway!
I don't mind a little hyperbole for good measure, but this is a sign of a poor mental state of these folks. They feel icy gripe of irrelevance reaching for them and they are fighting back in ridiculous ways.
Sadly, it is exactly this kind of behavior that drives that irrelevance more any anything. What happens to any cause when you water it down with accusati
Hand signals (Score:2)
I'm sure these guys have an appropriate replacement signal to use for next time I go diving and I want to check with my buddy on how they are doing.
And no, they cannot use thumbs up since that means, well, "Up".
No it isn't (Score:5, Insightful)
No its not. Nether is the bowl cut, even thought it is a bit dorky. Time to tell these little groups with axe to grind that everything is about them.
Re:No it isn't (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's not. First of all they are not "nazis." They are a bunch god damn imbeciles claiming to be nazis. An just because said imbeciles have starting using a symbol that has been used for centuries, not sure on the age there, doesn't make it a hate symbol. It only becomes a hate symbol when the rest of recognize it as one.
So again, no it isn't. Nether is that bowl cut or that bloody frog.
Re:No it isn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you point to the place on the doll where the OK sign touched you?
People like you who feel the need to 'fight' everything are doing nothing more than escalating the situation. Could you imagine what would happen if nobody showed up to protest a Klan rally? Nothing. Not a god damn thing, because it would just be a bunch of idiots standing in a square dressed as dollar store ghosts holding flags. When people show up to fight, you get a fight. It's science. So stop showing up. Stop giving them the attention they crave as see what happens.
Re:No it isn't (Score:4)
Not a god damn thing, because it would just be a bunch of idiots standing in a square dressed as dollar store ghosts holding flags
The last time I saw that pack of idiots they had added colors to their costumes. Now they where standing around like a bunch of retarded garden gnomes.
It's even worse!!! (Score:4, Funny)
It turns out many hate groups in the United States have been communicating using the English language. I am shocked and saddened to find out that something so ubiquitous and essential to our way of life has been co-opted by hate. All people of conscience are not obligated to start using a different hate free language if they haven't yet done so or to invent a new one if necessary, and pray that no hate groups decide to use it. This will be my final message in English.
Bloop Floop Chewbacca,
TsuruchiBrian
Context (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's important, in the pursuit of trying to challenge discriminatory speech or behavior, to be very judicious in the use of the "hate" label and to assume good faith when possible. Using it too frequently and too broadly weakens its meaning, and abusing it to attack well-intentioned people who don't understand the situation with this symbol just pushes people away. I think it's self-evident when someone's using the "OK" gesture for its original meaning versus as some kind of dogwhistle for hate speech; the context should make it pretty obvious.
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Well, I don't know your friends, so I can't really comment on why they have swastikas on their wherevers.
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I did see a bunch of Nazi's marching the other day with OK signs tattooed to their foreheads.
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No one is saying it can't be used. The list is a list of symbols used by white supremacists. It doesn't mean every use of it means the person is a white supremacists, but can mean someone using it might be using it that way. Pepe the Frog is another example of this. White supremacists starting using him, so he became a symbol of white supremacy. He was still used in other places and ways outside of that (Twitch is a good example as they continued to use Pepe before and after the white supremacists). When wh
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I think it would be funny if the LGBT community coopted Hitler's face and likeness to mean LGBT-friendly. Start putting Hitler's face with a rainbow background on LGBT-friendly products and clothing; create memes with Hitler saying he likes butt-sex, etc.
Not only would that be funny as hell, it would piss off the extreme-right.
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Some Suggestions:
Hitler in drag with the words "Mein Camp" below it.
Hitler doing Nazi salute next to a bare bottomed Hess on a step ladder with his hand up Hess's anus.
I'm sure there are more creative people out there who can come up with better ideas than me on how to ironically turn Hitler into a Gay-rights icon.
Re:stop the stupidity already (Score:4, Interesting)
Context. Also, the Nazi version is rotated 45 degrees.
Also, did you know that the "peace" sign can mean the same as the middle finger. Also, thumbs up in the Middle East is basically the middle finger. The middle finger in some cultures just means you want another beer.
Basically, people should stop being so oversensitive and constantly looking for secret meanings to everything.
Do you know what the eggplant emoji means? It means eggplant.
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Also, did you know that the "peace" sign can mean the same as the middle finger.
Usually only when facing the other direction. Palm away from you = "peace"; palm towards you = "f-off".
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Hindu one is sometimes rotated too, many temples have it. Arms going either way, sometimes with dots inside the area covered with the arms, sometimes not.
That symbol will still be around long after most people don't give a shit about nazis, ww ii, "holocaust", etc. It belongs to the Hindus
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Basically, people should stop being so oversensitive and constantly looking for secret meanings to everything.
The point of the ADL's list is to explain meanings that are literally not secret at all to those who bother to do a little real research, even if they may be little known to the general population or you in particular.
That you do not know or do not care is not an argument. It is just an opinion based on careless thinking.
You are also fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of language. Specific symbols means different things in different contexts, and that is inherent in the definition of every symbol u
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Then again, the alt-right wasn't a thing back then so I guess there was no evil entity they could centralize the blame.
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A bunch of emoticons lists will have to be changed ASAP, so by the post-Web 2.0 /. standards, this is a "tech" story.
4Chan isn't really doing this... it's the MSM. (Score:2)