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The Military United States Technology

The US Is Suspected of Killing a Terrorist In Syria Using Missile With Knife Warhead (businessinsider.com) 227

pgmrdlm shares a report from Business Insider: A suspected terrorist in Syria was reportedly killed with a rare U.S. missile packed with swords, according to multiple reports. The weapon that shredded the car did not explode. While the driver's side was torn apart, the vehicle was actually mostly intact. The deadly precision weapon was, according to a report from the Wall Street Journal in May, designed by the U.S. to reduce civilian casualties. The Journal noted that the R9X has been used covertly, albeit rarely, against targets in Syria, Yemen and elsewhere since 2017.
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The US Is Suspected of Killing a Terrorist In Syria Using Missile With Knife Warhead

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  • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Thursday December 05, 2019 @07:59PM (#59489668) Homepage Journal

    The deadly precision weapon was [...] designed by the U.S. to reduce civilian casualties.

    And that is what makes us different from the scum, who actively target civilians, and pack their weapons with nails to increase the casualties among bystanders.

    • by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:12PM (#59489694) Journal

      Maybe we should give the scum a better price on our precision weapons

    • Stop it. Our unintended casualty rate is something like 80%. Being better than someone horrifically awful doesn't make us 'good'.

      • by mi ( 197448 )

        Our unintended casualty rate

        Unintended is the keyword here. We do not want to kill bystanders. Our enemies do.

        • by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Friday December 06, 2019 @12:16AM (#59490220)

          We do not want to kill bystanders.

          Apparently, the US army does just that. Like marines torturing and killing helpless prisoners (and admitting it under the oath), posing with dead bodies and so on. And all of this fully sanctioned by the highest command.

          • by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Friday December 06, 2019 @08:23AM (#59490810)

            The actions of the few, do not imply the overall motivations of the whole.

            Mistakes are made, people run outside the rules and are dealt with accordingly. Clearly the instances you talk about are NOT standard operating procedure, but aberrations which once exposed have been curtailed. Yes, these things are bad, but war is a messy business, people die, things get broken and bad things happen as a result.

            The question is not about the bad things that happened, but if it was worth it. The military is about killing people and breaking things as accurately, efficiently and quickly as possible. When you use military power you MUST understand that you WILL do harm, innocent people will likely suffer, and that you have determined that this is worth the good that comes from the suffering.

            So, the argument you are making is that it's not worth it. But I disagree. Clearly the USA is exercising restraint and dealing with these situations as they happen. No, we are not perfect, but war is a bunt instrument no matter how you wage it. We are clearly trying to be as surgical as we can. For the adversary though, I'm not sure we can make the same claim. They seem to be bent on wanton destruction of innocent bystanders, or at least willing to harbor people within their ranks who are.

            So this moral discussion you want to have really is easily shown to favor the USA's approach, regardless of how poorly some of our troops execute their judgment in specific instances. NOBODY in the USA is willingly sending as many civilians to their deaths because we can do it. IN a relative sense, who's on the most shakey moral ground? Those who INTEND harm and actively seek it or those who seek to mitigate the risks of harming innocents? I know my answer.. What's yours?

          • We do not want to kill bystanders.

            Apparently, the US army does just that. Like marines torturing and killing helpless prisoners (and admitting it under the oath), posing with dead bodies and so on. And all of this fully sanctioned by the highest command.

            You know what? Fuck you. Show me even one written order or even one recorded instance of a commander telling his people to take out bystanders. Yes, it has happened, but no it is not fucking sanctioned.

            You are the enemy you dumb mother fucker. You have it too good. We should eject you out of civilized society so your stupid fucking hatred can be expressed simply and easily. You are an utterly disgusting example of "so fucked in the head you will work against your own interests". Just go join the fucking sui

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        A dishonest representation of the actual facts.
        Claims using numbers like that are obtained by merely counting the people killed in an airstrike vs the number of specific individuals targeted by the airstrike.

        However, it completely ignores the fact that almost all of the people around these targets are legitimate targets themselves. For example, when an airstrike kills Khaled Ali and his four bodyguards, by your claim "80%" of the casualties were "unintended" - only one dead guy was the target, the other fo

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The other 80% are usually the wedding party... But it doesn't really matter what the exact number is, what matters is that you are killing innocent people.

          Imagine if the police blew up your family and told you "sorry but they were stood 30m away from a really bad criminal."

      • Stop it. Our unintended casualty rate is something like 80%. Being better than someone horrifically awful doesn't make us 'good'.

        Citation please?

        I know it's popular to bash the USA for the mistakes and collateral damage we cause, but I'd argue that we at least are not intentionally choosing to harm the bystanders. I'd also argue that your statistic is rather inflated, inflamed by the adversaries' PR campaigns (i.e. it's propaganda).

        Clearly the USA is exercising restraint. We are NOT out willy nilly destroying stuff and killing bystanders with wanton disregard, but are engaged in a targeted strategic exercise of military power at

    • Agreed. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:24PM (#59489726) Homepage Journal

      War sucks, assassination sucks, it all sucks. There really is nothing to like here.

      Weapons like this seem particularly menacing because of their messy impact, and also because the "suddenly, out of nowhere, boom!" makes us all a bit nervous. How safe are we really when such weapons exist? It can incline us to seek to ban such weapons, in hopes that this will make us safer.

      But when dealing with the harsh reality of enemies out there, intending to harm us, with the means, motive, and opportunity to do so, it makes sense to have and deploy weapons like these. Eliminating the threat is an obligation that our government owes to us and our loved ones who pay them for protection. Doing it in a way that minimizes civilian causalities is a moral step-up, given that doing so involves greater effort and expense (and, of course, preserves innocent lives).

      So I consider weapons like these a necessary evil. I also consider governments (of all forms) to be necessary evils. I have no reason to believe that our leaders are paragons of moral virtue who would never abuse such power, so that makes me less than 100% comfortable with *ANY* kinds of weapons being in their hands. But this evil remains necessary. The correct means of keeping ourselves safe is not to ban the weapons, but to ensure that all government actions remain publicly visible, so that we can hold them perpetually accountable.

      • I can't read the french tweet in the story but I saw the word "Frappe" in it. This is quite awesome. Literally. It will provoke awe and fear.

      • not sure what factions in the Syrian civil war are doing to "harm us" other than absorbing a lot of expensive ordinance, which I guess is pretty scary, but Medicaid recipients are more dangerous.
      • Wow, you've heard about one time that they've used a missile that caused less damage to the people around the strike zone compared to the thousands of times that you've heard nothing when they've used much more lethal force. And you're happy that they've told you something. The reason they told you something is that things didn't fubar. They needed some good press to keep the money coming.

        Never mind that the drones have done much to drive people against the US. They drive the people crazy because the drones

        • It might not make news in the US, but in Europe we hear often enough about an (american?) airstrike in Afghanistan or similar area were they "accidentally" bomb a marriage celebration with 400 guests and 200 dead, because of $REASON.

          Usually there is no legitimated target at the place or reported to be there ... and most certainly: not hit. Only kids and women and the broom and a old folk ... or the bride, or both.

          • No it doesn't make the news in the US, they only hear about the "good" deaths, never the "bad" deaths. They don't read about how they US has illegally invaded Syria and has no right to be there. How the "freedom" fighters they are arming turn out to be part of ISIS and they are actually arming ISIS. The American propaganda machine at full swing blocks all of that, and they think that they are FREE and the US news is all TRUE and never bother to read anything else. It doesn't help that the American propa
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Menacing because of the "messy impact"??

        What do you imagine a conventional bomb does, scatter rose petals? Precision weapons reduce civilian casualties.

      • I also consider governments (of all forms) to be necessary evils. I have no reason to believe that our leaders are paragons of moral virtue who would never abuse such power, so that makes me less than 100% comfortable with *ANY* kinds of weapons being in their hands.

        Are you talking about governments or specific people in them. You weaken the rest of your well formed argument by introducing hyperbole at the end. Governments are necessary, and through their structure and setup many actually attempt to be virtuous precisely by keeping specific evil people's power in check.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        There's a really easy way to tell that these knife wielding missiles aren't all that great, and neither are explosive warheads fired from drones.

        If they were good they would use them in the US. No more police shootouts, just launch the knife tipped missile at the guy. The active shooter on campus would have no chance.

    • by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:36PM (#59489742) Journal

      The deadly precision weapon was [...] designed by the U.S. to reduce civilian casualties.

      And that is what makes us different from the scum, who actively target civilians

      Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

      Whilst it is an improvement on killing everyone else around the "suspected terrorist" it doesn't excuse the fact that murder is murder. You only know what you have been told and I'm certain if any other country in the world did a similar thing to a US citizen on US soil it would be viewed as an act of war.

      The deployment of this weapon can also be viewed as realization that when a US "smart bomb" takes out 20 people at a wedding, as has happened in the past, some of the innocent people who suffered the "collateral damage" of having their siblings or parents murdered are going to be pissed off enough to want to seek revenge. Usually in the same faceless, brutal and indiscriminate method that their own families suffered. Thus the cycle of hatred continues unbroken.

      That's what happens when you manufacture terrorists instead of negotiating with them so they can let go of their hate. Please, please, please stop killing people in other countries to maintain your economic interests which is less important than the concepts of justice, freedom and democracy that the U.S originally stood for before it became a superpower.

      • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Thursday December 05, 2019 @09:00PM (#59489808) Homepage Journal

        Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process

        Yes, we were actually trying to detain them initially... But everyone hated that so much, we stopped and — since the early Obama era [theguardian.com] — are just killing such suspects on the spot.

        just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

        We do apply the same standard to people in countries with the same rule of law as ours. No drone has killed Assange, for example — we've requested and are patiently waiting for the UK to extradite him. But Syria is not such a country, hence different rules.

        you manufacture terrorists instead of negotiating with them

        Ah, yes, yes — we don't have any enemies, do we? Only friends, whose grievances we've failed to accommodate...

        • by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @10:48PM (#59490070) Journal

          Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process

          Yes, we were actually trying to detain them initially... But everyone hated that so much, we stopped and — since the early Obama era [theguardian.com] — are just killing such suspects on the spot.

          I would have liked to see OBL put on trial, humiliated before the people of the world, evidence of his alleged machinations presented and then locked up for the rest of his life in shame. That demonstrates a nation secure in it's morals and values that can come up with a fate *worse* than death. No rigor of evidence was examined and we're were supplied more lies we're expected to continue believing even after evidence to the contrary has been presented. I wouldn't be surprised if he is still alive having a whiskey with Saddam Hussein. Who knows for sure?

          Justice denied.

          just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

          We do apply the same standard to people in countries with the same rule of law as ours. No drone has killed Assange, for example — we've requested and are patiently waiting for the UK to extradite him. But Syria is not such a country, hence different rules.

          Riiiight, so a US drone strike on an Australian citizen in a UK jail is an option in your mind. An act of war against two US allies at the same time is something you've considered worthy posting. This is how you'd treat your friends. That's the police state thinking for you, sow fear.

          Assange has defended democracy by pointing out corruption that threatens to collapse our democracy. That kind of sacrifice for Western culture makes Assange a hero and US attempts to extradite and silence simply highlight the depths of the corruption and how important his work is. Your background is from the USSR IIRC mi which provides many lessons on how corruption can destroy a society. As a unapologetic and staunch defender of freedom of speech and democratic issues for most of my western life, I'd like us to learn the lessons of that failure so I question if your off-topic and inflammatory comment is helpful achieving that goal.

          you manufacture terrorists instead of negotiating with them

          Ah, yes, yes — we don't have any enemies, do we? Only friends, whose grievances we've failed to accommodate...

          Currently the US is occupying Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia from memory and I don't really understand why you're still there? You're on a war footing with China and Iran and just taken out some guy in Syria. Perhaps by looking at things like this and you have an answer to the question "Why do they hate us?". It's not something you've always done so I think if the US would simply stop invading and occupying countries you would have a lot *less* enemies.

          • by syn3rg ( 530741 ) on Friday December 06, 2019 @07:58AM (#59490714) Homepage
            While it's an interesting thought experiment to attempt to determine why your enemy wishes you dead, it's important to remember that projecting your values onto them doesn't make your assumptions true. Sometimes they hate you for who you are, not what you do, and want you dead for their own reasons, not yours.
          • by jeff4747 ( 256583 ) on Friday December 06, 2019 @09:23AM (#59491046)

            I would have liked to see OBL put on trial, humiliated before the people of the world, evidence of his alleged machinations presented and then locked up for the rest of his life in shame

            Unfortunately, that requires OBL to cooperate with his capture, and Pakistan to not provide him a safe haven. He didn't, and they did.

            Assange has defended democracy by pointing out corruption that threatens to collapse our democracy.

            Assange has fantastic marketing. That's about it.

            He's received volumes of information leaked from Russia that he has not released. That would be rather inconsistent if he actually believed in the openness he claims.

            His most famous leaks, from Manning and Snowden, did not contain what he and his fans claim it did. For example, almost everything Snowden leaked was capabilities, and Assange and Co have just asserted who those capabilities are being used against. The very few documents from the Snowden dump that actually included targeting had extensive steps to ensure the targeting complied with the law.

            Which brings us to how you're actually harming democracy with statements like this. By asserting things like "the NSA is operating outside the law", you remove all pressure to change the laws that makes the NSA's actions legal. It would be really good to revisit the 1979 SCOTUS decision that made the NSA phone records program legal. By claiming it isn't legal, you remove the pressure to change the law.

            Currently the US is occupying Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia from memory and I don't really understand why you're still there

            Their governments have requested our continued presence. Whether or not those governments are "legitimate" is another debate.

            You're on a war footing with China and Iran

            We're being belligerent to those countries. We are not mobilizing any troops to invade. So no, not a "war footing".

            Perhaps by looking at things like this and you have an answer to the question "Why do they hate us?"

            They hate us because of our freedoms!!! (/snark)

            We know they hate us because of our history of interventions and dumb moves in the region like re-installing the Shah. Unfortunately, we can't reverse that without a time machine, and have to deal with the situation that we are in today. And that requires doing nasty shit to nasty people, thus generating more nasty people angry at what we just did.

            Which is why a very large faction of us would really like programs like the "New Green Deal". The sooner we can not give a damn about Middle Eastern oil, the better. Unfortunately we're locked in a cold civil war with another faction that believes their birthright is to conquer the world for money and their caricature of Jesus...and money. About the only positive news I can give on that front is the conquer-the-world faction is slowly shrinking due to old age.

            • > why a very large faction of us would really like programs like the "New Green Deal". The sooner we can not give a damn about Middle Eastern oil,

              US is a net exporter of oil. Much of the interest for the Middle East is for European interests and by extension a US interest because allies.

              Much of the hubub around Syria and Ukraine is gas for Europe.

              Basically, if you want the US out of the Middle East you need Europe to defend their own interests.

        • Ah, yes, yes — we don't have any enemies, do we? Only friends, whose grievances we've failed to accommodate...

          Indeed. People aren't born with enemies. The GP did not say the US must accommodate. The GP also did not say they aren't enemies. The GP merely said how these enemies come to be enemies of the USA, and for the most part it's due to the actions of the USA itself.

          You would do well to study history and understand why terrorists are even interested in attacking western nations in the first place, especially given their goal as an organised group is usually 100% related to domestic politics.

      • Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

        That's actually a philosophical argument I've mulled over for the past 30 years. Do you treat others by the standards you expect of yourself? Or do you treat them by the standards that they expect of themselves? I honestly don't know the right answer to it, although I'm leaning towards the latter.

        The former would

        • by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

          It didn't take me anywhere close to 30 years to come to a conclusion. That individual humans have great value is itself a human construct. I cannot imagine why I should place more value on a person than he places on himself or others. Violent people place less value on others, and I'm not going to value them any more than they value those they would harm.

        • Do you treat others by the standards you expect of yourself? Or do you treat them by the standards that they expect of themselves? I honestly don't know the right answer to it, although I'm leaning towards the latter.

          You treat them the way it brings most advantage to yourself.

        • Do you treat others by the standards you expect of yourself? Or do you treat them by the standards that they expect of themselves? I honestly don't know the right answer to it, although I'm leaning towards the latter.

          There is only one answer you can be sure of. Treat people by the standards you expect of yourself. But don't trust that they would adhere to those standards.
          How would you know (for sure) what standards they expect of themselves? So if you guess about what their standards are you might get

        • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

          Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

          That's actually a philosophical argument I've mulled over for the past 30 years. Do you treat others by the standards you expect of yourself? Or do you treat them by the standards that they expect of themselves? I honestly don't know the right answer to it, although I'm leaning towards the latter.

          If your standards of morality are so malleable that you can abandon them then you don't have any standards for morality. Instead what you can do is stick to your standards of morality, judge an aggressors actions by them and react accordingly.

          The former would seem to be the more noble philosophy. But it creates a logical loophole exploitable by evil people.

          Morality, not logic, is the guiding principle. With the latter an evil actor can project their view of the others standards onto the other to justify their conduct of evil acts. That is a form of moral relativism and when it is combined with...

          then evil people know they can hide among innocent people to gain an advantage. If that advantage is sufficient to achieve a military victory, you are literally letting the innocent people be occupied/killed by the evil people because you yourself refuse to accidentally do harm to them. (The conjugate to "destroy the village to save it".- you allow the village to be destroyed because you refuse on philosophical grounds to do what's necessary to save it.)

          ...moral absolutism it

      • "Please, please, please stop killing people in other countries to maintain your economic interests which is less important than the concepts of justice, freedom and democracy that the U.S originally stood for before it became a superpower."

        LOL

        -Native Americans

      • That's what happens when you manufacture terrorists instead of negotiating with them so they can let go of their hate.

        Can the dog negotiate with the tick? Can the antelope negotiate with the lion? Can I negotiate with you?

        Absolutely not. You are going to do what you are going to do and you don't give the slightest care in the world to what I might want. You will take what you want from me because I have no importance to you. It is the exact same with those people. Their interests clash with the interests of the United States as a whole and there is no possible resolution other than death. In the case of you and I, there is

      • Killing a "suspected" terrorist in a foreign country with no due process just means your not applying the same standards of justice to international citizens that you expect for yourselves.

        We're talking about the death of an enemy leader in a war zone. Contrary to what you seem to be suggesting, there is an applicable standard of justice, it does apply equally to all parties, and it's dictated by international accord (e.g. Geneva convention). Nowhere do those accords require that we build a battlefield courtroom and reach a guilty verdict for each and every enemy combatant before our soldiers are permitted to put a bullet in that enemy's head. To put it simply, your opinion that due process m

    • No, the important difference is that as it descends, our missile goes HII-YAHH!

    • by Xiaran ( 836924 )
      Terrorist organizations can very much be interested in precision... more so than this instance. Remember the IRA had a verifiable warning system so civilians could be evacuated before a bomb would explode.
      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        There's pretty decent evidence that when a terrorist organization actually starts killing people in large numbers they've jumped the shark.

        Terror organizations require money, most of which they get from donations. When they start killing people, especially indiscriminately, the donations dry up. It happened to Al Qaeda after 911.

    • The deadly precision weapon was [...] designed by the U.S. to reduce civilian casualties.

      And that is what makes us different from the scum, who actively target civilians, and pack their weapons with nails to increase the casualties among bystanders.

      Did you fail physics in high school?

      Impact velocity of a Hellfire Missile: 400m/s

      Impact weight of a Hellfire Missile: 50kg

      Impact energy of a Hellfire Missile: 8MJ

      Impact TNT equivalent of a Hellfire Missile: 2KG of TNT.

      Quantity of TNT in a hand grenade: 80g.

      There is nothing more to say here besides the fact that media continuously underestimates what kinetic energy means and how does it look if something flying at high speed whack a target. This is not the first time or the last time: https://www.fa [fagain.co.uk]

    • by N1AK ( 864906 )

      And that is what makes us different from the scum

      The CIA drugging thousands of civilians in secret, carpeting vast areas with Agent Orange causing widespread deaths and permanent health issues, flattening cities with Firebombings and Nuclear weapons during WWII... If being willing to use dubious weapons makes someone scum then the US has a pretty atrocious record.

      It's ridiculously naive to judge a massively outgunned force for not following the same standards as their opposition, unless you know the oppo

    • Chinese make and sell them cheaper.
  • Iain M. Banks would be appalled.
    • I'll tell you what he would be appalled by: the killing of "suspected" (not even convicted) civilians in a foreign country without any form of due process.

      • I'll tell you what he would be appalled by: the killing of "suspected" (not even convicted) civilians in a foreign country without any form of due process.

        I get the feeling that you haven't read many of the Culture books.

        • I've read them all. Here's the thing: the Culture is fictional and acts mostly out of benevolence - even SC. The US on the other hand is real and does not.

          I believe IMB was a good man, and he knew the difference between fictional and real violence.

          • He clearly didn't know the difference between fiction and reality given he was an ardent socialist and supported genocidal terrorist organizations just because of his blind kneejerk need to support whatever had the surface appearance of an anti-west underdog.

            Or maybe he did and, like every single socialist state in the history of the world, he just supported totalitarian genocidal regimes.

            • Or maybe he did and, like every single socialist state in the history of the world, he just supported totalitarian genocidal regimes.
              Would you care to number those socialist states?
              Or perhaps we have different definitions of "socialist state"?
              Is it socialist if it is in the name of the state? "Deutsche Demokratische Republik" has no "socialist" in the name btw. and did never do a genocide or similar atrocities.

        • by aharon ( 168642 )

          I'll tell you what he would be appalled by: the killing of "suspected" (not even convicted) civilians in a foreign country without any form of due process.

          I get the feeling that you haven't read many of the Culture books.

          And I suspect he has indeed read Culture novels... and that you yourself don't know a lot about Banks' real-life beliefs.

      • Re:Knife Missile? (Score:5, Informative)

        by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:24PM (#59489722)

        He was a combatant.

        According to HTS WhatsApp groups, the person killed is Abu Ahmad al-Muhajir, a foreign trainer of the elite force of the HTS, "The Red Bands" [google.com]

        Live by the sword die by the sword. In this case, literally.

    • I was thinking the same :D

  • With a choke?

    Granted, I'm not in the business of putting a bunch of explosives behind a bunch of knives. But I suspect I'd get much more bang for the buck using the shotgun approach.
    • The pop-out blades remain attached, it appears.
      It seems to be designed to make sure the missile doesn't miss by 18 inches. At the same time, it's designed to leave someone standing four feet away unharmed, though in need of fresh underwear.

  • by v1 ( 525388 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:32PM (#59489732) Homepage Journal

    https://twitter.com/N_Waters89... [twitter.com]

    Viewer discretion is advised. Looks like they already removed the deceased (possibly using a bucket and a spatula)

  • There are more dangerous possibilities. There was a proposal to take out armor on the ground by dropping very stupid kinetic weapons from very high altitudes, basically orbiting crowbars, for destroying armor on the ground. Let us be very glad _these_ were not used. They will pierce armor, they will pierce shallow bunkers, in theory they could be dropped en masse, they're less expensive than one might expect, and they'd ideally be dropped in a shef to wipe out a neighborhood. They're basically small, solid

    • I may be wrong but, when the cost of putting this type of weapon into orbit in the first place is taken into account, I think it would be cheaper just to use a good old fashioned anti-tank missile against armor :P

      • As I understand the costs, "it depends". When you factor in the personnel or vehicles troops to get anti-tank weapons in ground range, the space crowbars are surprisingly cost effective. They require almost no support in orbit, merely a homebase capable of planning their trajectory and triggering their launch, and they could strike nearly anywhere in the world that is even roughly close to their orbit. They're also a direct violation of various treaties, so I'm not personally aware of any actually being pu

      • They may not make sense now. But when asteroid mining finally happens (assuming we don't kill ourselves first) it will be cheap.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Project Thor was never more than a concept because it's not cheap, it's ridiculously expensive. Tungsten (and it has to be tungsten) telephone poles are expensive, and especially so when they're in orbit. High explosive is cheap, and doesn't have to be in orbit. The cost of most missile systems is guidance, which you also need on rods from god.

        It has only two advantages: you can drop one anywhere you want with a few minutes notice, and it's very hard to defend against.

        The US did deploy actual cheap kinetic

    • The point of orbital kinetic weapons was as a replacement for nuclear weapons. You drop a tungsten telephone pole from orbit and it's going to have the force of a small nuke with no fallout and a lot less warning.

      • I was going to.write that the energy released could be nowhere close to a nuclear blast, but you are right.

        Apparently, a 10 ton tungsten pole from low-earth orbit will have about 10 kton of kinetic energy at impact. A Falcon Heavy can launch six of those for 100 M$.

        I doubt that you could aim for a specific building or even specific city with an unguided telephone pole, since it would probably need to circle the earth to slow down enough to reach sea level. And guidance is difficult because "the weapon's sen

  • by Anachronous Coward ( 6177134 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @09:19PM (#59489870)
    Now that's what I call a surgical strike!
  • Flechettes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fabiomb ( 5315421 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @09:38PM (#59489924)
    these used to be called "flechettes" and now they can point them very precisely with a missile but in the old days they just drop them from an airplane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
  • Is it better to drop a massive ordinance weapon and cause collateral damage? I actually started envying the people that come up with this stuff when someone told me about the "RPG machine gun" or a few others the air force was testing near my town. It made me wonder if a piranha gun or sharks with lasers was really a gag or something more.

  • Guy Killed Me With A Sword, Mal. How Weird Is That?

  • The Terminator in âzDark Fateâoe is called a âzRev9âoe, IIRC. Thereâ(TM)s been a flick of truth and sometimes pre-shadowing in Hollywood movies that is a bit unsettling at times.

  • I guess someone at DARPA actually decided to go forward with the Rocket Propelled Chainsaw schematics circulated on the internet about a decade ago.

  • Cause I don't see a judge here determining the claim that he actually was a terrorist is true. (Also, what jurisdiction would that be?)

    And in that case, they just told the world "It is morally perfectly acceptable to us, to murder people halfway around the world without a legal trial, if you just accuse them of $something by your own moral standards.".
    To which every terrorist of course goes: "Allright! Cool! That's precisely what we to do! ... Wanna be friends in spirit? :)"

    If you wanna be the judge, you at

    • Cause I don't see a judge here determining the claim that he actually was a terrorist is true. (Also, what jurisdiction would that be?)

      The people firing the weapon are in US jurisdiction. Under that jurisdiction, the attack is legal - he is not a US person and is an enemy combatant.

      And in that case, they just told the world "It is morally perfectly acceptable to us, to murder people halfway around the world without a legal trial, if you just accuse them of $something by your own moral standards.".

      It's more that there is no way to actually bring the person to trial. They can't be arrested because they're not under the jurisdiction of a functional government.

      Also, this particular person disclosed what they were doing on ISIS's social media sites - he was in charge of training ISIS's "elite" troops. So it's not just an accusation by the US government.

      If you wanna be the judge, you at the very least have to adhere to your own rules.

      We

  • Did they at least call it "Death by 1000 cuts"?

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