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United States Technology

Mysterious Drones Flying Nighttime Patterns Baffle Colorado Officials (thedenverchannel.com) 82

Posted by BeauHD from the mystery-in-the-sky dept.
doug141 writes: At least 17 big drones, likely over the FAA limit of 55 pounds, are flying a grid search pattern over NE Colorado (Warning: source paywalled; alternative source), nightly between 7 and 10 p.m. at 40 MPH and about 300 feet. The FAA has no information and the USAF and DEA say the aircraft aren't theirs.
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Mysterious Drones Flying Nighttime Patterns Baffle Colorado Officials More

Mysterious Drones Flying Nighttime Patterns Baffle Colorado Officials

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  • Looking for illegal Marihuana operations (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @05:06AM (#59555620)

    At night it's easier to see with thermographic cameras at night.

    • Above us, there is nothing above, but the stars, above. All systems gone! Prepare for downcount!
    • They're flying above dozens (or hundreds) of circular fields, each with central pivot irrigation. Maybe they're doing a little crop-growth research.

      • Re:circular fields, with central pivot irrigation (Score:5, Interesting)

        by michael_cain ( 66650 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @08:46AM (#59555828) Journal
        If I were going to guess, I'd guess whoever it is is looking for leaks in the natural gas infrastructure: wells, collection networks, pipelines. Colorado has new tougher rules in place. Do all the testing out east where things aren't as dense before moving into the areas where wells are much more widespread.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          I've also seen speculation that they could be from the other end of the spectrum : looking for potential drilling sites. Exploration companies have been using aerial photography for decades, I would not be surprised if some are trying out automated mapping with drone swarms, and as you point out, a nice quiet rural area would be a good place to test the process.
          • I haven't seen people selling aerial photography as an exploration tool in 20 years of having people try to sell these things to me. For a long time, the market has been in satellite imagery, looking for absorption in the mid infra-red, using solar illumination (i.e., done in daylight, from invisibly high).

            There is probably still a market for aerial photography, but at the level of building access roads (for seismic, for drilling, for extraction trucks or pipelines) and for the purpose of proving the absen

        • Methane has a useful spectrum for detecting remotely, looking for an absorption feature in the near IR. We spent decades selling that technology to the oil industry. But ... and this is the big "but" ... you need to either pass your light (with a spectrum that you know) through the sample, or you need a bright external source (with a known spectrum) from which you pick up backscatter. One adds considerably to the weight you need to carry (ungood for drones), the other ... flies by day.

          We've had such "sniff

      • That's what they were doing this past summer in the same area - using IR cameras to help with irrigation.

    • Or. Marijuana thieves who don't care as much if the growing operation is legit.

    • Re:Looking for illegal Marihuana operations (Score:4, Funny)

      by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @08:30AM (#59555800) Journal

      You make a good point. It's tricky to see anything at night during the day.

    • At night it's easier to see with thermographic cameras at night.

      Except that Marijuana cultivation is legal in Colorado.

      Unless this is a Privateer looking for fields to raid for themselves...

      • Except that Marijuana cultivation is legal in Colorado.

        Yes, but not all grows are legal. My understanding is that they don't spend so much effort on finding illegal grows in Colorado as here in California where they made the licensing scheme ridiculously onerous and therefore many people attempt to bypass it, but there's always someone.

      • This does not eliminate the profit margin of illicitly grown weed grown on someone else's property with no testing and no taxes paid.

  • That weird dude with the greek name and bad hair [google.com] isn't sayin' it's aliens. But it's aliens. Or a Reisflugscheibe [kraftfuttermischwerk.de].
  • It's obviously Apple doing aerial photography for its new upcoming Apple Maps. They do it at night because... "think different". You will not find anything on it...

  • UFOs (Score:4, Funny)

    by BlueLightning ( 442320 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @05:32AM (#59555646) Homepage Journal

    Literally.

    • Do you freak out every time you see a plane in the sky and don't know who the pilot is?

      Not knowing who is operating a drone doesn't make it a UFO.

      • Yes, actually it does. It's unidentified (they don't know EXACTLY what kind of drone or who's operaring it, it's flying, and it's an object.

        That's all a UFO is.

    • Not quite - they've been identified as drones, just not who's drones. I think a UFO is when they don't even know what they're looking at is.

  • shoot them down (Score:4, Interesting)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @07:00AM (#59555712)
    then look for any identifying marks, if the government dont know who or what about em, then they are fair game for anti-drone tech to take them all down

    • Re:shoot them down (Score:4, Informative)

      by fred911 ( 83970 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @08:05AM (#59555772) Journal

      'then they are fair game for anti-drone tech to take them all down'

      No they are not. They appear to be operating legally in class G airspace. The craft aren't required to have externally visible markings. And most likely anyone that has that much money invested in multiple craft likes this has a part 107 waiver. Colorado has issued 72 of waivers https://www.auvsi.org/our-impa... [auvsi.org] . Mear operation doesn't necessarily imply that it is unauthorized.

      Shooting one down would be no different than shooting a car that passed by the street in front of your house because you didn't know the reason for operation. Or, possibly in this case because registration expired.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by FudRucker ( 866063 )
        if even the FAA & FCC and whatever government entity that is required to be notified of these drones dont know about them, then they could very well be illegal, and like cars they should be registered with the FAA & state of colorado, and using YOUR car analogy: what would happen if somebody was driving around in a plain black sedan with black tinted windows so nobody can see inside, no license plates on the car, even the VINs were removed, i bet the cops would be on that like stink on shit PDQ

        • Re:shoot them down (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @10:02AM (#59555962) Journal

          You seem to have an odd idea of how the law works.

          if even the FAA & FCC and whatever government entity that is required to be notified of these drones dont know about them,

          What makes you think any notification of any agency is required? Are you required to file a report with the government every time you fly a kite or buy a helium balloon?

          then they could very well be illegal

          "They could be breaking the law." Is no excuse for shooting them down, any more than "He could have killed somebody." is an excuse for shooting a random pedestrian.

          • likely over the FAA limit of 55 pounds,

            There are regulations in that weight class. Something that big falling on someone's head is going to be significantly more dangerous than a kite or a helium balloon.

            • Re:shoot them down (Score:4, Insightful)

              by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @01:59PM (#59556340)

              You are correct. I deal with larger drones for my job and we can't fly them over public areas. Any testing has to be done over airfields. Oh and they all have tail numbers registered with the FAA. I never gave it much thought until lifting one. 40 pounds falling from the sky is lethal.

              • Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard

                Not so, organized crime does it too. And it is only because to the State that private enterprises generally can't do it.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by epine ( 68316 )

                  Not so, organized crime does it too.

                  But only for the short term. When the state finally catches up to them, those ill-gotten profits are all legally forfeit.

              • 40 pounds falling from the sky is lethal.

                From an operating altitude of 300ft (100m), a single 454g mass (I think that's a pound, but I'm not sure if American or Imperial) is sufficient to be lethal, for some shapes. Wearing a hard hat would probably shift the odds considerably in the target's favour - which is why they're required on worksites with "overhead work".

                Actually, at such low masses and long drops, air resistance (and therefore object shape and density) become significant questions.

        • Just because a drone (or airplane for that matter) is properly registered, doesn't mean you'll be able to identify it in the air. Last I checked you're not legally required to carry a transponder, nor register a flight plan, so long as you stay out of restricted airspace (commercial or military)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DanDD ( 1857066 )

          Crop dusters frequently fly around a few hundred feet above the ground, and they aren't required to notify anybody unless they fly in and out of controlled airspace.

      • Shooting one down would be no different than shooting a car that passed by the street in front of your house

        The car is probably manned, the drones aren't. On the other hand, shooting at a car will get local law enforcement after you, while shooting at a drone involves the feds.

      • UAV are PROHIBITED at night, even in Class G airspace, without a special FAA permit. So either the FAA has a permit on file, or they have full authorization to interdict these drones and identify the pirate operators. The idea that they canâ(TM)t do anything is ludicrous.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jimbo ( 1370 )

      I believe The FAA considers unmanned aircraft of any size to be covered under Title 18 of the United States Code 32, which describes “sabotage to include destruction of any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States.” Violation of this code carries a maximum prison sentence of 20 years.

    • I'd build a GPS jammer, you could easily do it with a hackRF. If drones lose GPS signal they go into hover mode. Eventually the batteries will give out and do an emergency landing.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Operation of a GPS jammer can result in massive fines, forfeiture of equipment, and imprisonment for the individual operating it. The FCC takes a severely dim view of jamming any signal -- GPS, cell phones, UAV control signals, radio, television, etc.

        https://www.fcc.gov/general/ja... [fcc.gov]

      • If drones lose GPS signal they go into hover mode.

        Some drones, with which you have some familiarity, may do that. Others may do differently. Unless you can cite all the laws which apply in your country, then all the exceptions. That should take you a few days writing.

        The computational demands of terrain following and dead reckoning are pretty low these days. Even "find a flat area, land and turn on the come-hither strobe" isn't exactly hard to think through, and when your drone's weight is "on it's feet" t

    • Shooting down drones means putting bullets in the air with no backdrop, and very little hint of where they might come down. A fisherman has demonstrated that fishing rods with ordinary weights on the line are very effective, much safer, and you can recover your inexpensive ammunition. There is an excellent recording from the drone of just such a takedown at https://petapixel.com/2015/08/... [petapixel.com] .

  • taken them down yet

    my bet is they know

    i say less than 24 h until at least one of them is brought down

    • that is my guess too, either the gov knows and aint talking, or they dont know and will investigate and possibly apprehend some criminal types for nefarious purposes

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      They have no evidence or reason to suspect the drones are doing anything illegal. So even if they have no idea who's they are, they have no grounds to shoot them down.

  • Lots of possibilities: probably legal (Score:3)

    by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @09:25AM (#59555898)

    I don't see anything to indicate that the drones are operating illegally. (thought this may be an indication that rules on drone use need updating). I could imagine all sorts of remote sensing technology tests for some company that for reasonable competitive reasons doesn't want to reveal what it is doing.

    The night time operation is interesting, but could just indicate that the work is being done on the drones during normal work hours.

    Or it could be deeply suspicious surveillance

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Re 'Or it could be deeply suspicious surveillance"
      A few years of spending and state/federal funding should still show in budgets.
      The federal gov has the money but needs local police to collect the data.

      Watch for the spending "tell" to get around poor city police and federal limits on who the FBI can legally collect on.
      The local police ned the FBI level budgets...so its a team effort to buy federally and keep the resulting data sets local.
      The federal gov brings the cash, the states keep the data as the

    • The rules are
      * not in restricted airspace
      * below 450 feet
      * below 55 pounds
      * within line of sight of the operator

      I won't put any confidence in their mass measurements without a photo. 55 pounds is huge, and it's easy to overestimate the mass of a UAS..

    • UAV flights are PROHIBITED at night, even in Class G airspace, without a special FAA waiver. So either the FAA has a waiver on file, or they have full authorization to interdict these drones and identify the pirate operators. The idea that they canâ(TM)t do anything is ludicrous.

  • Obvious (Score:4, Funny)

    by magarity ( 164372 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @10:21AM (#59556002)

    Strange things happening in an isolated part of Colorado? They must belong to John Galt, of course.

    • Strange things happening in an isolated part of Colorado? They must belong to John Galt, of course.

      Who is John Galt? ;^)

      • the mythical superhero of an anti-christian movement from a teenage fiction book by a lady with daddy issues; that far too many people never matured beyond... but unlike comics, it's slow, dull, and without pictures. It continues the Russian tradition of self subversion which forever dooms their country.

  • Go ahead, take down a drone, or just watch closely (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DanDD ( 1857066 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @11:33AM (#59556134)

    Following is an incomplete list of defense contractors in Colorado. Law enforcement agencies, wildlife management [state.co.us], and fire prevention [colorado.gov] are also researching drones. If you take down a drone because you think it is operating illegally, or perhaps beause you just don't like them, you should be prepared to be the center of a shit-storm of legal action.

    Alternately, you could acquire a cheap software defined radio [bliley.com] and run something like dump1090 [satsignal.eu] (don't forget UAT on 978 mhz [stackexchange.com]) and watch very closely what is, or isn't, broadcasting it's location. Online services like Flightaware won't show low and slow little things, and will also filter out signals requested by operators for privacy reasons, so receiving the data yourself is the only way to be sure if something is broadcasting. If a drone is designed to be operated over a municipal area, then it might be broadcasting ADS-B [wikipedia.org] information that will at least tell you it's FAA registration information. If a drone is not broadcasting ADS-B info and it flies outside of class G airspace [wikipedia.org], and you can document it with good photographs and recorded ADS-B data of other, overhead aircraft (airlines are everywhere), then you've just documented a regulation violation that jeopardizes everyone's safety, especially civilian aviation. Please report it to the FAA [faa.gov] and local law enforcement with as much data as you can. But please, don't take the law into your own hands. It would be silly to face legal action because you interfered with an agency legally tasked with counting antelope.

    Lockheed Martin: [google.com]

    Ball Aerospace [google.com]

    Ratheon [google.com]

    Sierra Nevada Corporation [google.com]

    Northrop Grumman> [google.com]

    • The other thing I would add is trespassing on private land used for agriculture (which is almost all of the land in this area) in Colorado is a felony, especially with a firearm and it is illegal to shoot from public roads. Not to mention these drones are too high to shoot down with a shotgun and shooting a rifle into the air is absolutely stupid.
      • Well, whoever is doing the flying KNOWS the cat is out the bag. Dumb don't know statements don't cut the mustard. They better come clean. At 300-400 ft heavy duty fishing line with tri-hooks placed every 30 feet and a good swivel at the base may snag one. Many meth houses supplement line man traps with skunk juice or butric acid. Helium /hydrogen balloons are easy to come by, but ex WW2 barge balloons are harder to come by. position your suv with covered plates, and you are in business to catch ufos.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DanDD ( 1857066 )

          Well, whoever is doing the flying KNOWS the cat is out the bag. Dumb don't know statements don't cut the mustard. They better come clean.

          There's nothing to come clean about, and trying to bring down such drones with fishing line or balloons will land you in a world of hurt from which you cannot hide. High-end drone sensors can see such things quite well. The chances of these drones being operated by local or federal law enforcement is quite high, and if they are being operated by a defense contractor in test and development, then they'll have both federal and local law enforcement on speed dial. You really don't want to poke that bear. C

  • Wasn't the drone registry supposed to prevent this?

  • First Contact (Score:3)

    by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @06:01PM (#59556664)
    I'll bet Obama is involved in this somehow.
  • Pictures look very similar https://www.krtv.com/news/mont... [krtv.com]

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