If You Bought a Real Christmas Tree, You Paid 15 Cents To the Christmas Tree Promotion Board (buzzfeednews.com) 109
An anonymous reader shares a report: Christmas season is in full swing, and if the newly-formed Christmas Tree Promotion Board is doing its job right, you'll want to buy a real tree. You'll crave the sweet aroma of sap and the soft lustre of real pine needles. You'll accept nothing less. The board is a government-backed marketing program that's devoted to protecting Christmas tree farmers against the threat posed by artificial trees, the industry's arch nemesis. The uber-seasonal industry group, based in Colorado, is focused on "increasing the value and demand for cut Christmas trees." And it has a state-mandated source of funding: by law, growers must pay $0.15 from every Christmas tree sold to the organization.
Some might describe the work of the quasi-government entity as Christmas tree propaganda, but Tim O'Connor, its executive director, doesn't see it that way. "Propaganda is often fiction. We have no fiction, just facts and the story of the Christmas tree," he said. The facts, as he likes to point out when given the chance: the Christmas tree industry's impact on local economies, and traditions surrounding the holiday plant. Among other things, the board aims to maintain profitability for the country's Christmas tree farmers, who a decade a ago confronted a serious oversupply problem as too many real trees were harvested and fake trees became more popular. Prices plummeted.
Some might describe the work of the quasi-government entity as Christmas tree propaganda, but Tim O'Connor, its executive director, doesn't see it that way. "Propaganda is often fiction. We have no fiction, just facts and the story of the Christmas tree," he said. The facts, as he likes to point out when given the chance: the Christmas tree industry's impact on local economies, and traditions surrounding the holiday plant. Among other things, the board aims to maintain profitability for the country's Christmas tree farmers, who a decade a ago confronted a serious oversupply problem as too many real trees were harvested and fake trees became more popular. Prices plummeted.
I did not. (Score:3)
I don't buy them, I plant several each year instead.
Re:I did not. (Score:5, Funny)
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No, I am waging a guerilla war on Christmas. Why cut trees just to put them in your living room for a week to dry?
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Firewood?
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Nuclear fire.
Pine's kind a lousy as firewood (Score:3)
Re:Pine's kind a lousy as firewood (Score:5, Informative)
Pine firewood is fine, but regardless of the type of wood -- it needs to be aged by at least a year after its been cut up to season properly before burning.
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Just burn some oak after you burn the pine.
The worst wood is eucalyptus. It puts the most bullshit in your chimney. Plus, some people are actually allergic to it. And it's a fire hazard in the wild. That's "fine" in Australia (although right now I doubt they'd agree) but not so much in California, where people seem to have planted a fuckton of it. Idiots.
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Well here in California it's pretty much everyone who lives near a tree that's been preventing the proper management. Some of California's first laws prohibited setting fires every year as the natives used to do. We do controlled burns, but obviously they are insufficient. Those laws were set up before there even were "greenies".
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Re: I did not. (Score:2)
Mulch
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If people stopped buying Christmas trees, the result would be a net drop in the number of trees.
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I just cut another length of alu. tube. Festivus is so much easier to do than your silly Jesusmas.
The Airing of Grievances at the kids is particularly fun.
Re: I did not. (Score:1)
Re: I did not. (Score:2)
Re: I did not. (Score:1)
mandatory marketing (Score:3)
I know there are lots of mandatory organizations that are supposed to guarantee quality of key services (architects, lawyers, etc). There are also those copyright collectives that are used to simplify relations with myriad of small producers. Still this is first time I have heard of mandatory marketing.
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Do a search for "USDA Promotion Boards". They exist for all kinds of products like blueberries, raspberries, peanuts, watermelons, milk, cattle, eggs, and avocados.
Oh my. (Score:3)
https://www.christmastreepromo... [christmast...nboard.org]
Glad I have an artificial tree
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Even better than monthly subscriptions, "required by law" - the holy grail of business strategy.
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Required by law? srsly? https://www.christmastreepromo... [christmast...nboard.org] Glad I have an artificial tree
I always go to the mountain and cut my own. The US Forest Service requires me to buy a $10 tree permit, but all of the money goes to forest management, not to a promotion board.
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Re: Oh my. (Score:2)
In my community we go to the farm and pay the guy cash, the pines are just grown on the side. He doesn't pay sales tax or fees.
I think the article is talking about pine trees you pick up at Walmart or Home Depot or at large commercial tree farms.
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Nah, check the article, you're conflating "state-mandated" with local/state level. This is actually under the USDA, so it's federal. "state" in the broad sense not the narrow sense.
You can also check the figures, they made $1.8 million in the year the article came out. Divide by 0.15 and you get that they're collecting the rates on about 12 million trees a year, which is definitely national level.
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Required by law? srsly?
Everyone knows the bestest way to help out tree farmers and make them more successful, is to take a fixed dollar amount out of their profits for each tree sold!
It may just be me, but I've never heard of this promotional group before this story, nor seen the results of their work. Some mighty fine value in exchange for that money I'd sarcastically say.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Propaganda is information that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented. Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations, the media, and ind
ah, buzzfeed (Score:2, Funny)
True to buzzfeed form, the author eventually brings the article around to why President Trump's immigration policies are naughty. Talk about propaganda.
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True to buzzfeed form, the author eventually brings the article around to why President Trump's immigration policies are naughty.
As anyone who interacts with family around the holidays knows all-too-well, the holiday season is when, after a few drinks, your crazy uncle/father/grandpa/etc. suddenly becomes an armchair political pundit.
You think it's bad this holiday season, wait until 2020.
Oh no! (Score:2)
The horror of growers (not buyers)paying a self-imposes fee for their collective benefit!
Also, the self-imposed fee only applies to the US, Christmas is an international celebration, and Slashdot has an international audience - readers in Germany, for example, did not likely pay 15Â yo 'Big Christmas Tree'.
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$30 to the seller.
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self-imposed fee
Its not self-imposed its a Government-Imposed Checkoff Program [wikipedia.org]
This indubitably will benefit larger growers in the long run, but smaller growers might not benefit much so may want nothing to do with it; a $0.15 cost for tree would not be worth a $0.16 per tree's worth on average increase in sales; gain an extra penny per tree X 10000 trees, basically pay the government $1500 extra up front, borrow that money from the bank at some interest, to eventually come out ahead MAYBE $100 if th
So expenses flow through to consumers... (Score:2)
Dear Msmash... (Score:3)
When can we expect similar 'explosive' stories on the following?
Buy beef? You likely paid $1 to "Big Beef"...
Buy Mushrooms? You likely paid $0.0055 per pound to "Big Mushroom'...
Buy a mango? You likely contributed to "Big Mango"...
Did you buy Honey? Watermelon? Popcorn? You likely contributed to "big honey," "big watermelon," or "big popcorn." (Respectively)
Other corners of agriculture have similar marketing organizations: ranchers are required to pay $1 per head of cattle sold to the Cattlemen's Beef Board, mushroom growers pay $0.0055 per pound to the Mushroom Council, mango importers pay $0.0075 to the National Mango Board. There are groups for honey, watermelon, and popcorn too. Any industry can propose a program that requires all producers to pay fees to promote the commodity, and the USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service will consider it "if the proposal has substantial industry support."
Association and board (Score:3)
As it promotes cut trees to consumers, one activity the board is expressly prohibited from is lobbying politicians. That is the job of an industry group called the National Christmas Tree Association (not to be confused with the American Christmas Tree Association, which was founded by an artificial tree wholesaler). O'Connor also happens to be the Executive Director there.
O'Connor said any funding the association receives from the board must have a designated use that does not include lobbying. To influence policy, the association contracts lobbyist Craig Regelbrugge, senior vice president of AmericanHort.
Among the association's main concerns is labor policy, which faces changes under the Trump presidency. "Ours is an industry substantially reliant on foreign-born labor," Regelbrugge wrote in a post on the association's website.
The article conflates the board and association, two separate organizations with distinct agendas, only one of which includes lobbying politicians, the other is legally prohibited from lobbying politicians.
Christmas Trees Makes Me Embarassed to Be Human (Score:2)
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Kill?
When I was a kid, my folks would buy a live tree for Christmas. We'd set it up and keep it well watered. After Christmas, they'd take it out into the back yard (we had a huge lot) and plant it. Those trees are now at least 75 feet tall.
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They outnumber us about 10-100 to 1.
There are more trees on Earth than stars in the galaxy.
"a September 2015 paper published in the scientific journal Nature titled âoeMapping Tree Density at a Global Scale,â which provided an estimate for the number of trees on Earth of 3.04 trillion"
P.S. there's more tree-wood in your house than all the Christmas trees that you'll ever use in your lifetime.
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Not just carbon neutral, cutting down trees and burying them deep so they don't rot and then growing up new ones is carbon negative.
Doing that is essentially the opposite of burning fossil fuel.
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If you buy a $10 license to cut a christmas tree from the USDA (national forest), they use the money to plant several more and/or do other good stuff.
Using renewable resources sustainably is OK.
Oversupply. (Score:2)
oversupply problem as too many real trees were harvested
Growing up my father would grab his tree saw, pack us into the car, and take a trip to an upstate douglas fir tree grower. You could walk the entire lot to pick just the tree you wanted, when you found it you cut it down yourself and carried it to the tree baler so it would sort of fit into the car.
I always looked at those pre-cut trees as for the lazy. Plus you never know what it really looks like.
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Must not be government-mandated (Score:1)
This is the only outrageous part of it all — the government-mandated pay.
Everything else — Christmas itself, marketing, sustainability — are irrelevant.
Even on Norfolk Pines from the grocery store? (Score:2)
Mine is still alive after more than 15 years and now over 6 feet tall and it stay up all year long. It's survived a couple of moves and being knocked over by cats a few times.
It probably needs a bigger pot - I've only put it in a larger one once.
Happy Halloween everyone. Or is it Christmas? I get those 2 holidays confused for some reason.
I went retro (Score:2)
I have these nice retro ceramic trees. They belonged to my late grandmother before me. Pretty sure they're way better for the environment than any real tree, and much less of a fire hazard, especially since I swapped the bulbs for LED bulbs. Real nice, no mess, and the cat isn't as interested in destroying them.
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"real" tree is a lie (Score:1)
Steal one (Score:2)
Who even pays for a christmast tree? You are supposed to steal one from the forest.
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You must have voted for it (Score:2)
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Re:I'm an Atheist (Score:5, Interesting)
When my wife and I had our farm, I'd cut a cedar every year. Incredible aroma and very useful for kindling as it dried. (The best was a nineteen footer I somehow got in the house after an hour struggle.)
I have no use for the trivialities of the American Atheists, a bigger bunch of drudges you'll never find.
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Been an atheist for over half a century. Love the trees, decos, carols, movies, etc. When my wife and I had our farm, I'd cut a cedar every year. Incredible aroma and very useful for kindling as it dried. (The best was a nineteen footer I somehow got in the house after an hour struggle.) I have no use for the trivialities of the American Atheists, a bigger bunch of drudges you'll never find.
I'm an atheist also, but real Christmas trees are way more trouble than they are worth.
I prefer to celebrate the winter fertility festival with an artificial phallic symbol instead.
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I prefer to celebrate the winter fertility festival with an artificial phallic symbol instead.
I prefer the natural, real-deal phallic symbols. Dicks out for... Christ?
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Yeah, atheists just think it's OK to make women sexual objects at their conventions. [blogspot.com]
"There are people in this audience right now, who believe that a woman's reasonable expectation to feel safe from sexual objectification and assault at Skeptic- and Atheist events is outweighed by a man's right to sexually objectify her."
-- Rebecca Watson, atheist
Bonus shitpost: Atheists vs. Christians [i.redd.it]
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Whataboutism is a propaganda technique first used by the Soviet Union, in its dealings with the Western world.[1] When Cold War criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[2][3] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[4] a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly r
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Whataboutism is a perfect description of your previous comment.
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Christmas never really was that religious of a holiday. It has been more of an excuse to celebrate during the northern hemisphere darkest time of the year.
The birth of Jesus wasn’t really celebrated by Christians. But darn it everyone else was celebrating during this thin what could we pick as a reason to celibate too.
The Christmas tree is actually a pagan ritual. But it brings some color in during the winter months.
Re: I'm an Atheist (Score:2)
December 25 was also picked to coincide with a pagan holiday as well.
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But darn it everyone else was celebrating during this thin what could we pick as a reason to celibate too.
You should consider rewording this sentence.
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Let them have their Freudian slip.
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You know, I used to think there wasn't anyone more annoying than militant vegans, but you're making me reconsider that position...
Merry Christmas!
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You know, I used to think there wasn't anyone more annoying than militant vegans, but you're making me reconsider that position...
Merry Christmas!
How about militant vegan Atheists? Wouldn't that be most annoying?
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Re: I'm an Atheist (Score:2)
That's called a male feminist. Eg poperatzo and co on this forum.
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How about militant vegan Atheists?
That is my daughter. Yes, she is annoying. She goes back to college in 11 days, 7 hours, and 29 minutes.
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Yet another sign.
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Those are interesting claims about mental health that you just made, but I notice you didn't cite any sources.
From the coursework I have done, the fallacy of generalization [wikipedia.org] (e.g. declaring "All" this or that type of person as insane) is one of the most common, and that is precisely why it has a name. This suggests that it is actually quite normal for mentally healthy people to fall victim to it.
Furthermore, the claim that religious beliefs lead to unethical ways of life is not at all new, and has been made
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Anyone who really believes in virgin birth, inherited sin, the creation of the world in 6 days, talking snakes, demon pigs, feeding 5000 people with a single fish, walking on water, and rising from the dead, is clinically insane.
Sorry, but if you believe in this ridiculous bullshit, you are insane. There's just no other word to describe it except perhaps "delusional", and I don't see much difference between them.
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Nope, stupidity is not the same thing as insanity. Neither is superstition the same thing as insanity.
Though I am sure you don't want to accept this: religious beliefs (though false and strange) have historically been very useful in helping people overcome ACTUAL mental illnesses (such as addiction and depression).
In order to grasp this you need to think multidimensionally. Human cognition is not simple, and over-simplified models don't express it. One thing can be both good in some ways, and bad in othe
Re: I'm an Atheist (Score:2)
Very few people believe in those things as actually being real in every sense of the word. Some people do believe in miracles and as an atheist I've actually listened to people making these and other arguments about their faith. Most people do believe in the message and social fabric it provides and it's a convincing argument to have a common social fabric with your local community and participate in events even if you disagree with the belief it originated from.
There is little you will do to convince them
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I was speaking to that judgement.
Re:I'm an Atheist (Score:4, Informative)
Atheism is an absence of belief, not a belief in absence.
Most atheists do not have an affirmative belief in the nonexistence of deities.
You may label yourself how you want, but in practice "atheist" and "agnostic" usually mean the same thing.
Merry Secularized Christmas.
Re:I'm an Atheist (Score:5, Informative)
Random House Unabridged Dictionary / Dictionary.com:
atheist[ ey-thee-ist ]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings
agnostic[ ag-nos-tik ]
noun
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
----
Merriam-Webster:
agnostic
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
atheism
1a: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
b: a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
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Sorry Charlie
Bill, not Charlie.
In layman's terms, an Atheist is sure there is no God. An Agnostic is waiting for proof.
This is indeed what many laypeople belief. It is not what actual atheists believe.
Talk to actual atheists. Very few are "sure" there is no god.
You can also consult a dictionary, as the poster above you did. Atheism is defined by both Webster and Random House as "disbelief" ... which they define as "lack of belief".
Re: I'm an Atheist (Score:2)
And as Richard Dawkins points out in his book, nobody can be a full on Atheist by that definition without denying the scientific method.
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Atheism is an absence of belief, not a belief in absence.
Sounds like you need a dictionary for Christmas.
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atheism
1a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
It's both. Depends on the person.
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Sounds like you need a dictionary for Christmas.
There are many online dictionaries available for free.
Or you can go to Google and type "define:atheist".
Here is what it says: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."
Other dictionaries have similar definitions.
Atheism is a lack of belief or a lack of faith in the existence of God(s).
Affirmative belief or faith in the non-existence of God(s) is called "strong atheism". It is rare and seen as irrational by many atheists.
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Loose descriptions are fine.
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