New Rule Would Make it Possible To Track and Identify Nearly All Drones Flying in the US (cnbc.com) 72
The Federal Aviation Administration put forward a rule Thursday that would empower the government to track most drones in the U.S. From a report: The rule will require drones to implement a remote ID system, which will make it possible for third parties to track them. The measure will help law enforcement identify unauthorized drones that may pose a security threat, paving the way for wider adoption of commercial drone technology. The rule said that the FAA expects all eligible drones in the U.S. to comply with the rule within three years. The approval is a milestone in commercial drone delivery, as companies including Amazon, Uber and Google parent Alphabet are racing to add unmanned aircraft to their fleets to save costs and deliver goods faster.
In June, Amazon debuted its newest delivery drone as part of a push inside Amazon to speed up its delivery times for Prime members. In October, Alphabet's drone unit Wing officially launched the country's first commercial drone delivery flight. UPS's Flight Forward subsidiary said in October that it received federal approval to operate a fleet of drones, giving it broad privileges to expand unmanned package delivery. It was the first time the FAA had granted such broad approval to a company to operate a fleet of drones as an airline.
In June, Amazon debuted its newest delivery drone as part of a push inside Amazon to speed up its delivery times for Prime members. In October, Alphabet's drone unit Wing officially launched the country's first commercial drone delivery flight. UPS's Flight Forward subsidiary said in October that it received federal approval to operate a fleet of drones, giving it broad privileges to expand unmanned package delivery. It was the first time the FAA had granted such broad approval to a company to operate a fleet of drones as an airline.
Will it do TCAS? (Score:2)
Will it do TCAS?
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It'll most likely be ADS-B, which I'm sure some enterprising individual will tie into TCAS, so: a qualified yes?
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It says we can't use ADS-B, and then it completely fails to tell us what we CAN use. WTF? It also requires sending not only the location of the ground station, but also barometric pressure at the ground station. That can only be meant to fuck with amateur operators, who almost certainly don't have hardware for that. The baro sensor is not expensive hardware, except that we have no way to get that data to the drone currently, so we're going to need either substantial mods to radios, or possibly new radio equ
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That's nice, dear. (Score:3)
What happens if they find a drone that doesn't have an ID? Like, you know, a drone operated by criminals?
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What happens if they find a drone that doesn't have an ID? Like, you know, a drone operated by criminals?
Obviously a good guy with a drone will take out the drones of the bad guys who shouldn't have drones.
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What?? Not possible!! We passed a law!!!
How would someone make a drone or disable or remove such an ID!!
sarcasm off.
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What?? Not possible!! We passed a law!!!
How would someone make a drone or disable or remove such an ID!!
sarcasm off.
By God, you're right! We shouldn't have any laws that might be hard to enforce, because people will probably just break them anyway. Why didn't Hammurabi think of this before wasting time inscribing all those rules on that hunk of rock?
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We shouldn't have any laws that might be hard to enforce, because people will probably just break them anyway.
I wonder how many people agree with this. I wonder how many people who agree with this change their minds when immigration is the topic?
I'm Libertarian, so I am pretty much for open borders with Proper ID. This post is a troll for both sides of the nominal debate, pointing out how they are all for "law and order" until it is something they care about.
"Nobody is above the law" - Liberals whining about Trump "abuse of power". Also Liberals "We don't like Immigration laws, so we ignore them"
"I'm for law and or
Re: That's nice, dear. (Score:1)
No. Trump broke a law which makes sense. I.e., preventing abuse of power for personal gain. The liberal argument against immigration policy is that the law itself is unjust.
Conflating the two scenarios is either deliberately disingenuous, or stupid.
Re: That's nice, dear. (Score:1)
No. Both are valid responses to an unjust law. Work to change it and work to have it ignored.
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Re: That's nice, dear. (Score:1)
I'm taking about immigration laws.
Re: That's nice, dear. (Score:2)
Im sure no one will, just for kicks.
Use law enforcement IDs (or their annoying neighbors) and break the law like hanging round an airport.
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Much the same thing that happens if you drive around without a license plate.
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Much the same thing that happens if you drive around without a license plate.
Which is a bad analogy. Drones which meet the registration requirements already are required to have the owner's FAA registration number printed on the outside of the drone.
This is like the government saying your car must have a GPS tracker installed from the factory, and if you're driving an older car, your options are to install tracking spyware on your smartphone or only operate your legacy automobile off-road or on closed tracks.
If this was for anything other than drones (which people generally hate an
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That wasn't an analogy. OP asked what would happen if a pilot did not obey the law.
If you'd like an analogy, aircraft are generally required to carry transponders today, and have been for some time. Aircraft, like boats and motor vehicles with license plates, are also required to display their registration numbers with a certain size so that they are visible from a certain distance. Applying the latter requirement to drones would make most of them impractical.
What the FAA proposal describes doesn't sound te
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The exemption is for sub-250g drones, which means even a DJI Spark (which is fricken tiny [digitaltrends.com]!) falls within the regulated weight limit.
Also, it is incorrect that all manned aircraft require transponders. Part 103 ultralight aircraft (which are all significantly heavier than any common hobbyist drones) require neither a transponder, nor a pilot's license. There is actually less regulation involved in putting your own ass in the air, than a 300g toy (the weight of the DJI Spark).
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I wouldn't be surprised if, after all the revisions are done, there wasn't also an exception for drones under 1 kg operated outside controlled airspace.
I didn't say all aircraft have to carry transponders.
You're aware this is a draft from the FAA right? It is not a regulation.
Ultralights require a certain amount of training to fly, and your own ass is on board them, so you've got some motivation to fly safely. There also aren't very many of them. Things like ultralights, gliders, hang gliders and paraglider
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I wouldn't be surprised if, after all the revisions are done, there wasn't also an exception for drones under 1 kg operated outside controlled airspace.
So far, the FAA has continued to draw the line at 250g. I doubt DJI would've gone through all the trouble of designing and releasing a sub-250g drone if they felt the FAA was going to ever be receptive to classifying small hobbyist UAS separately from the up-to-55LBS beasts.
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There is actually less regulation involved in putting your own ass in the air, than a 300g toy (the weight of the DJI Spark).
Only sort of. There are restrictions on ultra-light operation that "300 g toys" don't have [wikipedia.org]. Ultralight vehicle cannot be flown except between the hours of sunrise and sunset. Ultralight vehicles cannot be flown over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons.
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Actually, hobbyists aren't allowed to fly UAS at night, over large groups of people, or over vehicles being driven, either.
Sure, an ultralight pilot obviously has self-preservation instinct as a big motivator to fly safely, but should something go wrong, I'd rather have a Mavic Pro fall on me than this [ultralight...gazine.com].
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You people are just as dumb as all is. What the fuck happens when there are hundreds of thousands of drones up there. Wake up, there is those totally insane delusion like there will only been a few drones. What happens when hundreds of thousands are continuously operating overhead, how chaotic will that be. Your walking down the street, two drones collide and what with it blades spinning furiously trying to stay aloft slams right into your head, killing you, tough luck for moron, how unlikely, hey few hundr
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Call up the News. It's a UFO - Unidentified Flying Object.
No little green men.
heck yeah, drones need to be licened and tracked (Score:4, Insightful)
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I’m pretty sure if someone’s intention was to cause harm to someone else, a rifle with a scope would be a better tool for the job than a flying toy camera with plastic propellers.
Good thing we tightly regulate guns, though, amiright?
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But only the government is allowed to sell guns to Mexican Drug Cartels, only to have them show up in mass murder sites and killing of police. Not One Person was held accountable for Fast n Furious because "The guy before me started the program".
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But only the government is allowed to sell guns to Mexican Drug Cartels, only to have them show up in mass murder sites and killing of police. Not One Person was held accountable for Fast n Furious because "The guy before me started the program".
And these new drone laws and regulations are not aimed at criminals. First, the number of "drone crimes" is statistically zero. Second, criminals who would do criminal-type things with a drone will...get this...not obey the laws regarding registration, monitoring, etc, etc.
These drone laws are aimed at preventing their use in exposing government wrongdoing, lies, and corruption. It is to keep the general public ignorant as to the government's doings and avoid accountability for same. The government does not
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Really? How about the gun the student built when he killed two students at Saugus High School. Did it have a serial number? No, it did not, because we hamstring law enforcement by pretending that the parts that make a gun won't be used to make an illegal gun. We do need to control the sale of parts and guns in the Untied States. Funny how the first part of the Second Amendment get left off when anti regulationistas quote it. "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,"
W
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The article and bill are aimed at larger organizations (e.g. Amazon, UPS, FexEx, etc) so the legal teeth to an un-marked drone found in their hangar is more realistic (but small).
If someone expects every over-seas bulk producer of toy and consumer drones to apply a unique serial number on each part and make that list available publicly, they are greatly overestimating their quality assurance process. :)
And even if you push the requirement back to the time-of-sale to track the serial numbers (like US Gun sal
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What we need to be funding is the scientific research into sense and track small objects in flight.
Amazon and NASA are working on an automated air traffic control system for drones already.
https://blog.aboutamazon.com/t... [aboutamazon.com]
If I was a criminal (Score:1)
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they can raise the bar enough to make drones difficult to almost impossible operate illegally, but i am sure a few criminals will try, some will get away with it but most will
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I'm not sure how this could be expected - there are numerous open-source flight software solutions out there which is the "firmware" that is used. And most have GPS flight automation options, so homing in on the pilots radio signal isn't an option either.
How about we look at ways to incentivize the detection and possible safety responses rather than assuming yet another law will stop anyone wanting to do bad?
Missing from TFS and TFA (Score:3)
All UAS operators would be required to comply regardless of whether they conduct recreational or commercial operations, except those flying UAS that are not otherwise required to be registered under the FAA’s existing rules.
So this means that a Mavic Mini, which is just under the 250-gram threshold, would not need this tracking ability, but a Mavic Pro would.
Apparently, they expect the pilot to submit telemetry to the federal government, including the registered ID of the drone, at all times. There are exceptions to the 250-gram limit, page 16-17:
However, there will be certain UAS including amateur built aircraft and previously manufactured UAS that might not have remote identification capability. A person operating a UAS without remote identification equipment would always be required to operate within visual line of sight and within an FAA-recognized identification area... an FAA-recognized identification area is a defined geographic area where UAS without remote identification can operate. An area would be eligible for establishment as an FAA-recognized identification area if it is a flying site that has been established within the programming of a community based organization recognized by the Administrator.
So you could fly your homemade or legacy drone at parks where you probably are also flying model aircraft. Speaking of model aircraft, does anybody know if you're supposed to register fixed-wing models with the FAA as it stands?
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So this means that a Mavic Mini, which is just under the 250-gram threshold, would not need this tracking ability, but a Mavic Pro would.
Ironically, the Mavic Mini already has DJI's implementation of remote ID built-in. Most of their older drones do not, but probably will get an app update with the requisite FAA spyware, so the drone can be compliant via your smartphone's internet connection.
Also ironic...
Everyone: "DJI is letting China spy on you!"
The FAA: "Can we get in on that, too?"
No distinction between RC planes and quadcopters (Score:2)
I haven't read the whole 300+ pages of the new rule proposal yet, but I've never seen the FAA distinguish between fixed-wing (planes) vs quadcopters ("drones"). I don't see any distinction with a quick glance at the new proposed rule. Here it is:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/publi... [amazonaws.com]
An earlier proposed rule didn't distinguish between paper airplanes and medium-sized drones. So you would need to register a paper airplane or Frisbee before tossing it. Fortunately we got that adjusted. The rules still don't ade
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Particularly proponents of heavy regulation have cited risk of damage to manned aircraft, and the rules reflect that, without acknowleding that airplanes don't fly at 30' around your backyard.
Huh. Hold my beer.
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I live about five miles from Trump's summer palace in Bedminster, NJ. When they're doing security sweeps before he comes, the aircraft are probably at less than 100 feet. From the ground, you can practically read the warning sticker next to the helicopter's fuel inlet. The Ospreys don't come in that low, though.
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Radio controlled models, yes. Control line, gray area, but probably not. Free-flight, no.
The distinction is the definition of a UAS (Umanned Aerial System, that is a flying object with a "ground control system). RC is a UAS. CL is not (no ground control system by the usual definition and not really aerial), FF is not (no ground control system at all).
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Specifically this is targeting potentially huge drone operators like Amazon, UPS and FedEx that could have ten times the number of drones as there are piloted aircraft in the skies within a decade.
There's a potential massive airspace conflict brewing as these huge companies plan these drone operations. Unlike the Arrival of drones they FAA is trying to be proactive about this now instead of tacking the regulation on after the business are already in operation. My bet is the legislation mostly exempts small
A big “fuck you” to hobbyists (Score:2, Informative)
I got the email from the FAA this morning. If your drone wasn’t manufactured with remote ID capability built-in, you’ll either have to fly connected to a smartphone with an active cellular internet connection (and an updated app with FAA mandated spyware installed), or fly in a authorized model aircraft field (totally ignoring the fact that many people fly drones for the photography aspects) to be exempt.
As I’ve long suspected, this is nothing more than the FAA handing what was previously
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Or it's because absolute idiots keep doing stupid shit with drones.
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Speaking of, are you legally entitled to shoot down a drone over your private property? What about capturing it via net?
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Shooting down drones is a federal crime:18 U.S. Code Sec. 32.Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities
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I'll bet idiots in cars have injured killed more people just today than idiots with hobby drones have in all of history. Cars aren't required to broadcast all of their telemetry and location data at all times, though. The idiots are the problem, not the drones.
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Additionally, if your aircraft does not have an FAA-authorized serial number (e.g. it's a foam board Flite Test plane that you made yourself), it can ONLY by operated at an authorized flying site. ...and no applications for new sites will be accepted after 12 months. So they're basically destroying the entire model aircraft hobby/industry. :(
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They did the same thing with ultralights.
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Please tell us how being able to ID your drone prevents you from using your drone.
There is no grandfathering clause in this proposed regulation. If you've invested big in UAS hardware that doesn't get the FAA spyware update for the app, you're SOL. Got the updated app, but want to fly somewhere where your phone doesn't get reception? You're also SOL.
Granted, your old UAS will still work same as it did before, but now you're flying illegally, which is what I suppose most people are just going to do anyway.
repeater (Score:1)
Criminals (Score:1)
The criminals will surely be the first to line up to comply with the law.
We have never seen criminals use stole license plates.
* sarcasm off *
This puts a burden on lawful citizens. And the only ones to be identified will be idiots. Make a tax on stupidity I stead.
Why is it important to track drones? (Score:1)
I'll tell you why. If a drone crashes onto my property and starts a fire, I'm going to need to know who to sue to pay my insurance deductible.
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Sounds more likely to happen on Fourth of July/New Year's Eve with an errant firework than someone's drone.
Also, typically, pilots want to retrieve their drones when they crash them. They're not really cheap enough to use for kamikaze runs.
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The cops and fire department quickly bust anyone doing fireworks in my neighborhood. But drones are spotted on a regular basis if the complaints on NextDoor is to be believed.
I'm in an RC club, and we have had to put out fires caused by the battery packs in our planes. Intention is not to cause fires. Being responsible means we're prepared for there to be a fire. That means we don't fly beyond where we can get to the plane quickly, we carry fire extinguishers (ideally ones that work well on battery fires),
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No HOA here. Sorry to burst you bubble. Fire watch tower is at the end of my road, so fire danger is taken seriously by everyone who lives here. (tourists and meth heads on the other hand, don't take it seriously)
Indeed (Score:2)
Just like serial numbers on guns made murders impossible.
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Caution: The science behind this is not nearly as precise as fiction authors, including your local criminal prosecutor, would have you believe.
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They didn't, but they made identifying a gun in a trial much simpler. Even if you file down the numbers, there are ways to see the originals. If I can match a bullet to the gun through the markings left on the bullet, then identify that particular gun's serial number, then say I found the gun with that serial number in your possession, you're screwed.
It is a good thing there is no way to remove the serial number except by filing.