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Education Privacy Security

How Should Students Respond To Their School's Surveillance Systems? (gizmodo.com.au) 138

Hundreds of thousands of American students are being tracked by their colleges to monitor attendance, analyze behavior and assess their mental health, the Washington Post reported this week. That article has now provoked some responses...

Jay Balan, chief security researcher at Bitdefender, told Gizmodo that the makers of the student-tracking apps should at least offer bug bounties and disclose their source code -- while rattling off easily foreseeable scenarios like the stalking of students. Gizmodo notes one app's privacy policy actually allows them to "collect or infer" students' approximate location -- even when students have turned off location tracking -- and allows third parties to "set and access their own tracking technologies on your devices."

And cypherpunk Lance R. Vick tweeted in response to the article, "If you are at one of these schools asking you to install apps on your phone to track you, hit me up for some totally hypothetical academic ideas..."

Gizmodo took him up on his offer -- and here's a bit of what he said: Students could reverse engineer the app to develop their own app beacon emulators to tell the tracking beacons that all students are present all the time. They could also perhaps deploy their own rogue tracking beacons to publish the anonymised attendance data for all students to show which teachers are the most boring as evidenced by lack of attendance. If one was hypothetically in an area without laws against harmful radio interference (like outside the U.S.) they could use one of many devices on the market to disrupt all Bluetooth communications in a target area so no one gets tracked... If nothing else, you could potentially just find a call in the API that takes a bit longer to come back than the rest. This tells you it takes some amount of processing on their side. What happens if you run that call a thousand times a second? Or only call it partway over and over again? This often brings poorly designed web services to a halt very quickly...

Assuming explorations on the endpoints like the phone app or beacon firmware fail you could still potentially learn useful information exploring the wireless traffic itself using popular SDR tools like a HackRF, Ubertooth, BladeRF. Here you potentially see how often they transmit, what lives in each packet, and how you might convert your own devices, perhaps a Raspberry Pi with a USB Bluetooth dongle, to be a beacon of your own.

Anyone doing this sort of thing should check their local and federal laws and approach it with caution. But these exact sorts of situations can, for some, be the start of a different type of education path -- a path into security research. Bypassing annoying digital restrictions at colleges was a part of how I got my start, so maybe a new generation can do similar. :)

Gizmodo calls his remarks "hypothetical hacking that you (a student with a bright future who doesn't want any trouble) should probably not do because you might be breaking the law."

But then how should students respond to their school's surveillance systems?
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How Should Students Respond To Their School's Surveillance Systems?

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  • to install their App

    • by ron_ivi ( 607351 ) <sdotno@NOSpAM.cheapcomplexdevices.com> on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:21AM (#59566834)

      At work, people refused to install similar MDM software on their personal ("bring your own") devices.

      The company compromised by saying that anyone who didn't want to install it on their device would be issued a company phone and/or laptop.

      Seems a fair compromise, and should work for the school too.

      • At work, people refused to install similar MDM software on their personal ("bring your own") devices.

        The company compromised by saying that anyone who didn't want to install it on their device would be issued a company phone and/or laptop.

        Seems a fair compromise, and should work for the school too.

        Those company-issued phones are a hoot.

        I was the IT guy who negotiated an iPhone deal with AT&T for just that.

        Appreciate that employees have no affectionate bond for company property. They abuse company vehicles, copy machines, computers ... because none of that stuff is theirs and maintenance responsibilities lie with the company.

        Flat tyres happen. Broken screens happen. Wet phones happen.

        Not surprisingly, BYOD property health stats did not follow the same curve.

    • Simple. If if is really necessary, get a school phone and a school email account. Use it only for school work and leave the phone at school in your locker.
      • The only place on a college campus with a locker is going to be in the shower at the sports complex. Here's a better idea; tell them no. If they want to mandate a tracking App then they can supply a phone, which you can switch on during class and then power off the rest of the time.
        • I charge $200/hour for each device that you want me to carry around that is not my property. If you want it turned on while being carried around, that costs $1000/hour. If you wish me to store the device for you when I am not carrying it around, that has a space rental fee of $2000/hour/cubic inch. That storage fee also applies to other accoutrements that you wish me to store (boxes, chargers, etc) for you. There is also a fee per hour for device charging which is in addition to the space rental fees, p

          • Pretty sure the response to this is, you're welcome to pick another school, we don't want you here. It's not exactly an even power relationship between school and student.
            • It is only "not exactly an even power relationship" because you choose it to be so. You are free to choose as you please but do not expect that your decision is binding on anyone else.

              • I'm not sure what's going on in your mind that makes you say things like that. Students (and especially prospective students) are pretty much the bottom rung when it comes to negotiating clout, unless they throw their toys out the cot in large numbers. Unless you're wealthy and can pick and choose what school you go to (and even what country you study in), that may be a bit of a different thing. Most students don't have such luxury.

                I'm sure many peoples' stories are pretty much like mine was. There's one un

  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @03:52AM (#59566808)

    How Should Students Respond To Their School's Surveillance Systems?

    They should embrace it. They want a nanny state, they vote for nanny state politicians, they advocate for nanny state policies ... well, you got one on campus, embrace and enjoy it.

    • They should embrace it. They want a nanny state, they vote for nanny state politicians, they advocate for nanny state policies ... well, you got one on campus, embrace and enjoy it.

      Talk about part of the problem...

      How many elections have these 18 year olds voted in? The people who voted in all that crap are on average much older than the students, in other words it was you, not them.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )

        They should embrace it. They want a nanny state, they vote for nanny state politicians, they advocate for nanny state policies ... well, you got one on campus, embrace and enjoy it.

        Talk about part of the problem... How many elections have these 18 year olds voted in? The people who voted in all that crap are on average much older than the students, in other words it was you, not them.

        Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders.

        And there is the pesky detail that college students are some of the biggest nanny state policy advocates out there. And as you say, they are 18 so they now can vote. Probably two or three times while in college.

        • They should embrace it. They want a nanny state, they vote for nanny state politicians, they advocate for nanny state policies ... well, you got one on campus, embrace and enjoy it.

          Talk about part of the problem... How many elections have these 18 year olds voted in? The people who voted in all that crap are on average much older than the students, in other words it was you, not them.

          Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders. Way to not get it. These commies you rant about are not the people who brought about this state. These High school students - why most of them aren't even of legal age to vote, yet somehow you are blaming them for a political/legal system brought about by people who are normally several decades older. And often claiming to be quite conservative.

          I'm a Goldwater conservative, and the constant castigtion by today's crypto-conservatives has one big failure point. Like blaming people that don't even participate in the legal system. Maybe we should get back to some true conservative values, like paying the bills and running the nation intelligently.

          Y'all have come to the point where you become indistinguishable from what you claim to hate. Starts to become silly to blame liberals for everything when actual liberals are just about a myth these days.

          Example of present day crypto-conservative silliness and blaming children for problems they've caused - some underage autistic girl who isn't even American talks about the Greenhouse effect, and y'all go batshit crazy. In your collective rage, you don't see her prime achievement has been to trigger and troll y'all. And there is the pesky detail that college students are some of the biggest nanny state policy advocates out there. And as you say, they are 18 so they now can vote. Probably two or three times while in college.

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            These High school students - why most of them aren't even of legal age to vote, yet somehow you are blaming them for a political/legal system ...

            You are clueless. No one is blaming them. They are just evidence of how low the left has sunk, how bereft of knowledge and plans they are, that the left presents emotional outbursts of children as political props in their weak political game. The kids have triggered/trolled no one except on the left. The conservatives are simply laughing at the left on the one hand - devoid of plan/ideas, and criticizing the left on the other for using children as political props - callous.

            • These High school students - why most of them aren't even of legal age to vote, yet somehow you are blaming them for a political/legal system ...

              You are clueless. No one is blaming them.

              You wrote: Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders.

              Go figure.

              that the left presents emotional outbursts of children as political props in their weak political game. The kids have triggered/trolled no one except on the left. The conservatives are simply laughing at the left on the one hand - devoid of plan/ideas, and criticizing the left on the other for using children as political props - callous.

              Funny, my Republican friends get really pissed off if Greta Thunberg's name is mentioned. I supposed getting angry is the new laughter.

              Sorry, if you don't understand how well trolled and triggered modern crpto-conservatives are by a little girl, you don't have much room to call me clueless. Hell, I'm not even a lefftist, but I successfully trolled you, dmb. And pro

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                These High school students - why most of them aren't even of legal age to vote, yet somehow you are blaming them for a political/legal system ...

                You are clueless. No one is blaming them.

                You wrote: Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders.

                Go figure.

                No, go parse. I am blaming the left for using high school students as their thought leaders. Well, political props actually.

                But thanks for confirming you are clueless.

                • high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders.

                  You wrote exactly that . Do not blame another for parsing when you are not capable of writing correctly.

                  I shall illustrate how to write a sentence that doesn't claim that "high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders"

                  "Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders." becomes.....

                  Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where the left's policy leaders were using high school students to spread their propa

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                Sorry, if you don't understand how well trolled and triggered modern crpto-conservatives ...

                Here's another clue, that little niche you refer to hardly representatives of conservatives.

                And probably will with this post too. Which is just fine by me.

                LOL.

        • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:10PM (#59567626) Journal

          Perhaps you missed the various 2019 news stories where high school students are now the left's policy thought leaders.

          As an old person with the power to vote, it's your fault that you are unduly influenced by highschoolers, not the highschoolers fault. And if you think the blame lies with all young people then it certainly lies with you personally as well.

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          YOU missed the part where they haven't actually had a chance to vote anyone in or out. A freshman in college will possibly have had zero chances to vote. If they do the typical high school direct to college route, they will at most have had one chance to vote and it will be a bit soon for their choice (if he/she won) to have had an effect on anything.

          In practice, by the time they've had a chance to vote and see the real world consequences so they can hopefully choose more wisely next time, they've either go

          • YOU missed the part where they haven't actually had a chance to vote anyone in or out.

            Other than the two or three times they will vote while a college student.

            they will at most have had one chance to vote

            We vote for Congress every two years. Midterms matter.

            A freshman in college ...

            About half of freshman will get to vote, their birth year aligning with US Congressional elections.

            Depending on the timing ...

            Many take more than four years for various reasons. So half of those will get a third chance to vote depending on birth year. And then there are grad students where the vote count gets to three or four.

            • by sjames ( 1099 )

              Midterms matter, but they only offer the chance to vote a few bad apples out. The rest remain.

              As a freshman, they may not have had ANY chances to vote yet. Their ability to vote later doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for them as a freshman. You don't get to blame them for the results of an election that hasn't happened yet.

              • Their ability to vote later doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for them as a freshman. You don't get to blame them for the results of an election that hasn't happened yet.

                You don't get it: millennials are so bad they're even guilty of things they haven't done yet.

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                Their ability to vote later doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for them as a freshman.

                Perhaps you need to re-read above, where about half of them will get to vote as freshman.

                Then perhaps you should re-read a third time above and notice I am not talking about freshman, I am talking about the entire college aged segment. Hence the constant mention of being able to vote two maybe three times.

                When you understand this we can continue straightening out your confusion. Stop avoiding reality with all your efforts of moving the goalpost.

                • by sjames ( 1099 )

                  I am avoiding nothing. You wanted to blame all college students for their own problems claiming they voted for the representatives who caused those problems. I am pointing out that you'll need to narrow that brush by a good bit or even throw it away entirely.

                  You are ignoring that even if someone votes perfectly starting with the first time they EVER get to vote and their choice wins EVERY time, they won't get all of the bad apples voted out before they graduate.

                  So you're going to have to accept that they a

                  • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                    I am avoiding nothing.

                    Other than I said embrace, vote and advocate for ... you seem to have only read one of those. Again, re-read to get up to speed.

                    • by sjames ( 1099 )

                      Because so many parents listen so carefully when their minor children embrace or advocate for a particular candidate...

                      Same situation, slightly different angle. If you as a new voter don't have enough votes to get the bad apples out before you graduate from college, neither do the people you might manage to influence.

                      Back to you, are you narrowing or discarding that brush or are you discarding logic and reason?

      • They're all eager to vote for Bernie, because he's promising to give them lots and lots of free stuff! Of course it comes with the GP's nanny-state requirements...
      • Why would I want to vote to have someone "represent" me. I am perfectly capable of representing myself. If you do not like that, go suck a pufferfish!

    • they vote for nanny state politicians

      Students in America can't drink but they can vote?

      • by Mspangler ( 770054 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:03AM (#59567470)

        Yes. Voting starts at 18, legal drinking starts at 21. They used to be both 18, but too many idiot kids became dead kids from drinking and driving, and so they raised the drinking age to 21.

        Go back further and both ages were 21, but men were being drafted for the Vietnam war at 18, with no opportunity to have voted against it, so the age of majority was dropped to 18.

    • by nnet ( 20306 )
      What says the surveillance will stop at schools? Why would I want students deciding for me if I want to be monitored?
    • Which is the anti-surveillance party? The "small government" republicans almost universally support giving the police all they want, letting private corporations form monopolies and do whatever the hell they want. The democrats are big on controlling what people can and can't buy and eat, usually also match their republican opponents on surveillance and police bills because they have to be "tough on crime". 90% of the time the voting options are between a "bad" and a "terrible". When they hold their nose an
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:14AM (#59566818)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • If anyone insists that you install an app on your phone to track you, whether it's your school, your parents, or just a garden-variety nosey advertising sleazebag, tell them to go fuck themselves sideways with a full-grown Saguaro cactus.

      OK, someone else will be happy to take your seat at the university, the charter school, etc. If its the sort of place you have to apply to they can tell you to use their software to access the building, labs, services, etc. Or you can not go there. Whatever decision you makes works for them.

      • Having a cheap second phone just for the app, that never goes home with you, is an (expensive) option. Maybe the school would Anyone going to an American university obviously has plenty of extra money.
        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Having a cheap second phone just for the app, that never goes home with you, is an (expensive) option. Maybe the school would Anyone going to an American university obviously has plenty of extra money.

          Regarding expensive, no so much, Walmart prepaid phone. Just never fund the phone. No cellular but everything else works just fine. I use such devices for Android development. Sure its several versions of Android out of date and will never get an upgrade. But so what if its just your door key.

          Regarding privacy, they are still tracking you on campus. You might as well just close the app on your real phone and configure it not to run in the background. So that it is only alive and reporting when you are un

    • If anyone insists that you install an app on your phone to track you, whether it's your school, your parents, or just a garden-variety nosey advertising sleazebag, tell them to go fuck themselves sideways with a full-grown Saguaro cactus.

      -jcr

      In the case of parents, the "your phone" is probably paid for by them so they're the true owners who have a much clearer authority to say what gets installed on it.

  • by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:35AM (#59566858)
    On a positive note we're all going to die someday so we don't have to put up with this bullshit forever.
  • by renegade600 ( 204461 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:11AM (#59566922)

    I think it would be more fun to hack it to show you were not in class, even when you were. Might backfire but as long as you could prove you were in class, it wold make it seemed the system was unreliable.

  • The parents transfer their kids and their own supervising powers about their well being to a school and these abuse them to do roll calls?
    The bastards!

  • What is the law? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Martin S. ( 98249 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:40AM (#59566974) Journal

    Gizmodo calls his remarks "hypothetical hacking that you (a student with a bright future who doesn't want any trouble) should probably not do because you might be breaking the law."

    In the UK and Europe this sort of data collection would be unlawful on the GDPR [ico.org.uk]. Collecting personal private data requires the permission of the data subject. School rules cannot change that and a child cannot legal consent.

    I find it extremely remarkable that this aspect so often goes unchallenged by Americans.

    • by rastos1 ( 601318 )

      Collecting personal private data requires the permission of the data subject.

      Of course you may not give permission. You are free to choose to not study at that school. Or any other.

    • Re:What is the law? (Score:5, Informative)

      by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:45AM (#59567162)

      >"In the UK and Europe this sort of data collection would be unlawful[...] I find it extremely remarkable that this aspect so often goes unchallenged by Americans."

      Yet in the UK, the government puts up (or connects to) countless thousands of camera to track everything people are doing. The UK spies on its citizens more than most any other country. As if some privacy laws will or could prevent abuse is laughable to me.

    • Nope. Not unlawful. Just pointing out that there is a responsibility when handling person data. And six specific reasons for why to do it. One is consent.
    • In the UK and Europe this sort of data collection would be unlawful on the GDPR [ico.org.uk].

      You're assuming that signing the GDPR waver isn't a requirement to go to the school. Don't magically assume that just because a law exists that Europe is some bastion of privacy.

      • "You're assuming that signing the GDPR waver isn't a requirement to go to the school"

        This is a reasonable assumption. The GDPR prevents this sort of requirement; permission has to be given freely, and cannot be a condition of using the service unless it is operationally necessary for the service.

        GDPR requirements are actually pretty strict; I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that the EU is has stronger protections for peoples privacy than most other parts of the world.

  • If it's so important to make sure Billy is in class then...

    His teacher Jenny better be on time as well.
    The administrators shouldn't be taking 90 minute lunches.
    The administrators secretary shouldn't be taking five 15 minute trips to the vending machines per day.
    The office workers shouldn't be taking five 10 minute smoke breaks every day per day.

  • I'm sorry, but if I were a young man in the US I wouldn't go college in the first place. Way to dangerous, way to expensive, way to volatile. Unless I'd be rich enough to go to some cushy deluxe university without racking up debt.

    Seriously.

    College these days is nonsense unless your doing particle physics and need a huge expensive accelerator or something. Engineering you can do abroad, for free, same with medical.

    If I wanted to Kickstart my career in the US without money these days is stick to specialisatio

    • But it could help with your spelling.
    • by Monoman ( 8745 )

      Please explain why you feel college in the US is too dangerous, too expensive, and too volatile. There are plenty of careers that require a degree and not all colleges are expensive private universities. I get the impression you have been reading too many headlines.

      • There are plenty of careers that require a degree and not all colleges are expensive private universities.

        And there are even more careers that require you to problem solve, and in particular problem solve with other human beings. Pretty much any college degree shows that you have the basic capacity to work within a system and deal with other people. Autistic savants aren't good team players, and while you might find one who is so damn good at his niche that he's worth putting up with, you generally don't need more than one.

        And pretty much any college degree shows that you've had exposure to a wide world of topi

    • Dangerous? What kind of bizarre bullshit have you been feeding on?

    • Yep, if I'd have done it all over, I would have gone to medical school in Europe. Generally a 6-year program, right out of high school. No social engineering BS, you can drink like a free human being at age 18, etc.
    • I'm sorry, but if I were a young man in the US I wouldn't go college in the first place. Way to dangerous, way to expensive, way to volatile.

      I like your out of country concept. But there is also another route:

      Online Universities. Having worked at University and seen them as increasingly toxic places for young men, your ticket is using a resource that keeps you physically out of the place. One bad accusation can ruin you for life.

      differential analysis. You can also use tracking info as an alibi source. If unjustly accused of sexcrime, and you were innocent and some place else, and their tracking software validated that - you're free, no matte

  • Will we be checked for guns at the entry?

    • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

      Yes. And if you don't have a gun, you'll be required to buy one at a price named by the school.

  • they could still possibly track you if you have a smartphone, i am sure corps like google and others will be glad to help the orweillian spy network, just get a shielded pouch to keep your phone in when not in use, i bought one and they work, the phone can not communicate with the outside world when in the pouch and the outside world can not communicate with my phone either, it disappears from the skynet when its inside that pouch
  • Know what I'm saying? Students have more power than they realize.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • If you (discreetly) discover that your college/university doesn't allow you to opt out of such tracking or penalises you in one way or another...

    Buy a dumbphone at the start of term & go to the college/university's tech support to tell them you can't install their app. The worst that could happen is that they provide you with a free smartphone, which you can regularly lose or break by accident. After a few weeks, you'll be on first-name terms with the tech support staff & admins :)

    You don't have to

  • by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:58PM (#59567724) Journal

    with digital helicopter parents who use their phones gps to track them from the time they're in middle school maybe earlier.

    Who had cameras in their houses and watched their babysitters watching their kids.

    Who get pissy in class and instantly pull out a cell phone to complain to their parents while still in middle/highschool and demand that teachers deal with this.

    Schools gave up on trying to restrict the phone usage because their parents want to be in constant contact.

    It's a shitty situation but these kids did not create it, their parents did, they were born in to and had it normalized by the pervasiveness.

    They live and die by social media where every trivial detail must be live streamed and documented.

    I'm nearly 40 and I feel really bad for these kids who have never known privacy and have had almost no room to breathe their whole lives. How will they ever learn who they are?

  • At my college, using Google is required for everything. My solution is to use a cheap Android phone with no sim card, and turn it on only when I'm on campus. Seems to be a pretty simple solution.

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