China To Ban Single-Use Plastic Bags and Straws (dw.com) 96
China, one of the world's biggest producers of plastic waste, is set to introduce a ban on all non-degradable plastic bags and single-use straws in major cities. From a report: As part of a plan to drastically reduce plastic pollution, China's government said the production and sale of disposable foam and plastic tableware, often used for takeout, and single-use plastic straws used in the catering industry will be banned by the end of the year. Disposable plastic products should not be "actively provided" by hotels by 2022. The changes were outlined in a document released on Sunday by China's National Development and Reform Commission and the Environment Ministry. The changes are part of a move to achieve a 30% reduction in non-degradable, disposable tableware for takeout in major cities within five years. Postal delivery outlets are also targeted in the new guidelines with a ban on non-degradable plastic packaging and disposable plastic woven bags by the end of 2022.
I guess it's a start? (Score:3)
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1, Troll)
Itâ(TM)s certainly far more than USA did or is doing. Clean coal FTW!!
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It was a bit of humour.. but it seems the mods here are too Chardonnay
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Yeah, and it really sucks for people with motion disorders when restaurants don't have straws. California has become really disabled-unfriendly.
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:2)
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:5, Insightful)
Straws need to be plastic?
If you want them to work and be cheap, yes.
Paper straws dissolve.
Paper straws coated in wax are terrible for the environment and still dissolve, just more slowly.
Metal and glass straws are dangerous and expensive.
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1)
Diesel is cheaper than gasoline (but pollute several times more): only forbidding this things change (it's, almost, natural for business to choose the cheaper option, even if polluting more the environment - as your post shows!)
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Diesel is cheaper than gasoline (but pollute several times more): only forbidding this things change (it's, almost, natural for business to choose the cheaper option, even if polluting more the environment - as your post shows!)
First, I'd like to see an explanation on how diesel fuel is any worse for the environment than gasoline. Maybe this was true before removing sulfur from fuels was common, and catalytic converters wasn't the norm either. Seems to me that the air coming out of the tailpipe of a modern road vehicle is cleaner than the air that went in. (Now some wiseacre is going to reply with, "If the air is so clean then why don't you suck on a tailpipe!" I said the air was "clean", as in lower in particulates and toxic
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1)
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Tl;dr
Then just read the last sentence. Here, I'll even quote it for you so you don't have to bother with more clicks.
If people can't get plastic straws then we'll see more heroin abuse.
If that sentence doesn't make sense to you then you'll have to go back and read the rest of the post. It's worth it.
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Several countries have banned or made expensive the use of plastic bags... All it's done is increase expense and inconvenience for people.
We used to reuse the plastic supermarket bags as trashbags, but now we have to buy trashbags instead. This still results in plastic bags going to landfill after only 1 use instead of 2.
The supermarkets used to provide boxes (ie you could reuse the boxes that their stock was delivered in to carry your purchases home)... This was better than bags if you went by car, as boxe
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Several of the local restaurants in my area have started using these "plant-based" straws that are biodegradable but they feel just like plastic (I think it's cellulose or something like that). Although they're biodegradable, I've never seen one start to dissolve in my drink, even after long dinners.
It's not like creating a better straw was some type of unsolvable engineering problem. It just hadn't been done because there was no motivation to do so. The same company that makes them produces disposable "pla
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Apparently the only drawback is that you can't use them in hot drinks, and who uses a straw or plastic cup for a hot drink anyway?
Lot's of people use a straw in a hot drink. They don't drink through them but they use them to stir their coffee, tea, or whatever to mix in the sugar, milk, or whatever they added. I'm sure you've seen these straws at a coffee shop.
I remember hearing about some cafeteria that switched to biodegradable spoons instead of plastic. This was a problem because the spoons would melt in peoples' soup. This was also a problem for people that liked to stir their coffee with a spoon, the corn starch or whatever i
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:2)
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>"Several of the local restaurants in my area have started using these "plant-based" straws that are biodegradable but they feel just like plastic (I think it's cellulose or something like that). Although they're biodegradable, I've never seen one start to dissolve in my drink, even after long dinners."
Funny, I just saw what might be those offered at Walmart when I was there yesterday (and this is NOT in CA or similar). They were called "Compostable Staws" and labeled as "plant based" but had no other u
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it wouldn't matter that much [comparatively], since plastic straws are such an incredibly tiny part of the plastic waste stream (same with plastic bags).
But could play an important role in changing the overall mentality of the human race.
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If you want them to work and be cheap, yes.
Bamboo straws are relatively cheap, reusable, and biodegradable. Grass straws are even cheaper and don't get soggy like paper straws.
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Silicone straws do not dissolve, and are not dangerous. You see them everywhere in California supermarkets. They are plastic (polymer) but are indefinitely reusable. Non-stick, easy to wash too.
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Plastic straws haven't been around forever, you know. They used to all be paper, and they worked fine. It's not like you need to use the same straw over and over and over again. And if you do, it's not single-use, anyway.
The paper straws that I ( and others ) have tried don't work. Not just for reuse. They don't work well for the first use. If, indeed, there there used to be paper straws that worked, that is a lost art worth the effort to re-create. I suspect they didn't actually work well and that is why plastic straws took over.
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:4, Interesting)
Plastic straws haven't been around forever, you know. They used to all be paper, and they worked fine. It's not like you need to use the same straw over and over and over again. And if you do, it's not single-use, anyway.
The paper straws that I ( and others ) have tried don't work. Not just for reuse. They don't work well for the first use. If, indeed, there there used to be paper straws that worked, that is a lost art worth the effort to re-create. I suspect they didn't actually work well and that is why plastic straws took over.
I've used lots of paper straws, and all of them have worked fine. I don't like them very much because the paper absorbs moisture from my lips and tongue, creating a somewhat odd and not pleasant sensation, and they taste like paper and are more fragile. But they do the job.
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The paper straws that I ( and others ) have tried don't work.
Try to suck harder
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To work well, yes. Paper straws cause drinks to fizz and shoot out of the straw in fascinating ways, getting all over the person drinking from them, and the metal ones are prone to cause injury to people with motion disorders. There really are no good alternatives to plastic drinking straws.
The compostable bioplastic straws work fine, of course, and some people might even argue that those aren't plastic, but that really comes down to a question of how a particular law was written (and whether the restaur
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1)
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the metal ones are prone to cause injury to people with motion disorders.
[citation needed]
Here you go.
https://www.livescience.com/65... [livescience.com]
"I just feel that in the hands of mobility-challenged people like Elena [Struthers-Gardner], or children, or even able-bodied people losing their footing, these [straws] are so long and very strong," Mandy Struthers-Gardner, Elena's wife, said in a statement, the Daily Echo reported. "Even if they don't end a life, they can be very dangerous."
This was widely reported.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/... [foxnews.com]
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0... [nytimes.com]
https://www.usatoday.com/story... [usatoday.com]
This is not the only case of injury from a metal straw but it was reported widely because it caused a death, and it sounds like the woman that died of the metal straw induced injuries was something of a minor celebrity in Britain.
Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1)
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There are dangers all around.. You could just as easily get impaled on your knife and fork, or chopsticks, or cut yourself on a broken glass, or hit your head on a concrete floor, or fall onto a road or railway track etc... You encounter thousands of things that could kill or injure you every day.
You have to be careful, and doubly so if you've got a condition which makes you more prone.
You can't turn the whole world into a giant padded cell.
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There are dangers all around.. You could just as easily get impaled on your knife and fork, or chopsticks, or cut yourself on a broken glass, or hit your head on a concrete floor, or fall onto a road or railway track etc... You encounter thousands of things that could kill or injure you every day.
You have to be careful, and doubly so if you've got a condition which makes you more prone.
You can't turn the whole world into a giant padded cell.
Correct, we can't bubble wrap the world. What we can do is not give children metal straws that can damage their teeth. Or give metal straws to adults with motor control issues. This is the same as not giving knives to children so they don't impale themselves, and having people that ride a bike at any age wear a helmet so they are less likely to bust their skull on pavement.
In this specific case the woman knew she had problems with balance and such but still chose to have a metal straw. This is perhaps a
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Children could damage their teeth on knives, forks, spoons or chopsticks - should we stop giving them those too? Perhaps we should liquify their food and place it into a trough on the floor so they don't need to use their hands and risk chewing their fingers...
If someone has motor control issues they should be avoiding these things too, they could just as easily injure themselves trying to eat with a fork. Having a metal straw is no more dangerous than thousands of things that people are already doing on a
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The compostable bioplastic straws work fine, of course, and some people might even argue that those aren't plastic, but that really comes down to a question of how a particular law was written (and whether the restaurant owners/managers are clueful enough to know that they exist).
As long as they're biodegradable then I don't see what the issue is. They're really the perfect compromise because most people can't even tell the difference. Furthermore, they give farmers jobs which should make everyone happy (of course there's the issue of environmental issues caused by farming, but that's another subject).
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The compostable bioplastic straws work fine, of course, and some people might even argue that those aren't plastic, but that really comes down to a question of how a particular law was written (and whether the restaurant owners/managers are clueful enough to know that they exist).
As long as they're biodegradable then I don't see what the issue is. They're really the perfect compromise because most people can't even tell the difference. Furthermore, they give farmers jobs which should make everyone happy (of course there's the issue of environmental issues caused by farming, but that's another subject).
We have them at my work. If the color was the same, I'd bet nobody could tell them apart.
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d the metal ones are prone to cause injury to people with motion disorders.
So... 100% of the population should use plastic straws because 0.01% of the population can't cope with the alternatives?
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No, 100% of the population should have access to plastic straws because up to 28% of the population could need them at some point in their lives.
Yes, you read that number right. 28% of all people will eventually get some form of motion disorder, and if you live long enough, the numbers get even higher. More than half of all people in their eighties have some form of motion disorder. Thi
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Yeah, and it really sucks for people with motion disorders when restaurants don't have straws. California has become really disabled-unfriendly.
Restaurants can supply silicone straws. They are washable and reusable - just like every other piece of tableware. I use them at home and have stopped buying disposible straws entirely. They work great.
Try asking for one, probably they have got them. If they were smart they would just start supplying them routinely to everyone, or make their availability prominent (called out boldly on the menu, say) so that right-wing trolls won't bash California out of cultivated ignorance.
Ah, who am I kidding? That will
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That's great. Now mandate it. The problem is not that there aren't alternatives that might work. The problem is that politicians demanded that restaurants stop doing something that served a real need for a protected group, and did nothing to require those restaurants to keep meeting that need, a decision t
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A wheelchair is not a consumable item, so that's a false analogy.
Also, most businesses over a certain size actually do have assistive technologies for the disabled. every Wal-Mart store in the country, for example, has those motorized chairs, and most of them also have Caroline's Carts. The same is true to varying degrees for Lowe's, Target, etc.
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Is there really no exception for people with special needs? Seems like a massive oversight, normally these laws account for obvious stuff like medical uses.
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The problem with that is that the ADA is designed specifically to minimize the burden on disabled people, by requiring reasonable accommodation without people having to explain why they need something special. As soon as you expect the disabled to have to explain why they should not be charged the disposable straw fee, you're so far on the wrong side of the ADA that you probably can't see it in the rearview mirror.
replace coal with homer & mr burns run nuke pl (Score:2)
replace coal with homer & mr burns run nuke plans
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Maybe they'd look a little more like responsible world citizens if they stop building coal-fired power plants everywhere, manufacturing disposable junk of every kind for dirt cheap, and then hypocritically refusing to take it back to reprocess/recycle because it's "your garbage, not mine -- stop using China as your dumping ground".
...says the one who thinks they're going to guilt the disposable junk manufacturer right out of business. Let's be real here in the face of Greed; You couldn't even convince a rubber dogshit manufacturer that their product is suddenly not worth making because of environmental concerns.
And instead of attacking the global supplier of disposable bullshit, maybe focus on the rest of the fucking planet demanding it.
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Re: I guess it's a start? (Score:1)
It is not hypocritical to sell something and then refuse to take it back once they've used it and converted it to rubbish, you self-righteous twat.
This is what we call leadership... (Score:2)
...the production and sale of disposable foam and plastic tableware, often used for takeout, and single-use plastic straws used in the catering industry will be banned by the end of the year...
Can we agree that this is indeed a testament to China's leadership on matters important to the world?
Note that China demonstrated leadership in matters that involved one of the biggest aircraft companies not so long ago.
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Absolutely. We should all take after China and report our traitorous neighbors to the secret police.
Re:This is what we call leadership... (Score:5, Insightful)
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The biggest problem is that now they can't say "but China!" on yet another environmental issue. What-about-this-other-thing is the best they can manage right now.
Re:This is what we call leadership... (Score:5, Funny)
They are also demonstrating leadership in matters of creating a whole-country panopticon and the orwellian social credit score. You'd be silly not to want to live in a human utopia like that!
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The think about a panopticon is than with enlightened leaders closely supervisions the bureaucracy to make society better, it can be better than any other so far designed.
OTOH hand, there's several ways in which no recorded government ever matched that description, despite the inclusion of numerous wildcards, like "better" and "enlightened". Perhaps well-motivated (another wildcard) AIs supervising the bureaucracy can fix (another wildcard) things.
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While I agree that we should be happy that they're doing some good in the world, I think you're placing the Chinese on a pedestal they have yet to earn. The Chinese are paying a hefty price for being one of the world's most rampant polluters for decades. Only now that their air quality has become toxic and plastic pollution has threatened their fishing industries have they taken action to reverse this course.
It's kind of like a doctor providing aid to the pedestrian he struck with his car while driving drun
All single use plastic containers should be banned (Score:2, Insightful)
Your great great great great grandchildren don't need to have a permanent record of your potato chips snack this afternoon.
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Since plastics degrade and also are eaten by bacteria it's not the massive problem you imagine as long as we mostly stop making the disposable stuff.
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plastic degradation is a huge topic
https://www.intechopen.com/boo... [intechopen.com]
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Actually, many plastics do degrade, if you wait long enough. Not all do so in the same way. Some require exposure to UV to run the process. And some degrade as quickly and easily as wood (which, itself, is highly variable).
Others, of course, don't degrade noticeably without being exposed to both UV and a hard vacuum.
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Your great great great great grandchildren don't need to have a permanent record of your potato chips snack this afternoon.
Unless one or more of them becomes a professor of potato chip (crisps to civilized people) history.
Re: All single use plastic containers should be ba (Score:1)
Deter Gents! (Score:2)
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1) You can use detergents that break down quickly and aren't as environmentally unfriendly as plastic which takes thousands of years to break down.
2) We can develop alternative disposable utensil products that are strong enough to hold up to a meal but which break down in dozens of years instead of thousands of years.
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You mean like chop sticks? In a country where everyone already knows how to use them, unlike me...
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Actually, single use chopsticks were a real problem. Perhaps they still are. Their production wiped out not a few forests. Fortunately, they can easily be made from bamboo, which grows back quite quickly in southern China.
The containers are more of a problem, as they need to be reasonably flexible and durable to liquids. Bamboo can be made into paper, but paper has trouble holding liquids for long periods of time. You can wax it for better results, but, IIRC, there is still problems if the liquid need
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1) You can use detergents that break down quickly and aren't as environmentally unfriendly as plastic which takes thousands of years to break down.
And yet we take those detergents and wrap them in a plastic pod for teenagers to chew on. Not sure which move was more idiotic.
2) We can develop alternative disposable utensil products that are strong enough to hold up to a meal but which break down in dozens of years instead of thousands of years.
Even dozens of years of waste is a considerable logistical problem to deal with globally, and it's likely growing faster than any decomp rate will offer.
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like those ubiquitous wooden disposable chopsticks?
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Strides are already being made in biodegradable plastics... PLA, for example, is compostable... Not sure that it's food-grade, but that's just the first one off the top of my head. The detergent issue you raise is interesting. I'm worried that they'll use more cardboard containers treated with that weird teflon derivative that's already in all our bloodstreams, or some other additive that will prevent grease from soaking through the paper bags...
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>food grade...
From someone who owns one o' them newfangled 3D printer'y wotsis... which uses PLA, I can be fairly confident in telling you ; Not food safe.
General consensus is : Don't print bowls, sporks, thingies to keep food in...
https://pinshape.com/blog/3d-p... [pinshape.com]
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"Gentlemen, if they ban disposable utensils, wouldn't they will need to wash all of their utensils,"
You mean those 2 chopsticks they have in their pocket?
They just wipe them off with the hot towel they get after the meal.
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Of course, mining aluminum is extremely costly and environmentally destructive. Aluminum is in fact expensive enough that at one point is some parts of the world it was only used by the aristocracy. It really is not a viable
Ok, but can we recycle reusable ones? (Score:3)
Is it possible to recycle the multi-use bags made out of synthetic fibers? After buying meat at the grocery store I have to wash those so I don't get sick on re-use, and eventually they get worn down. Plus in the laundry a ton of plastic fibers end up in the lint trap and that's not so good for the environment. What's the environmentally friendly solution here?
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The environmentally friendly solution is to go back to natural fiber cloth bags like everybody used before plastic bags became the norm, and waxed paper for wrapping meat like everybody did before plastic became the norm. If you really need fully airtight single-use wrap then maybe some kind of a plant based biodegradable plastic could be used - but most things we currently wrap in plastic don't benefit from it (meat included).
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The environmentally friendly solution is to go back to natural fiber cloth bags like everybody used before plastic bags became the norm, and waxed paper for wrapping meat like everybody did before plastic became the norm. If you really need fully airtight single-use wrap then maybe some kind of a plant based biodegradable plastic could be used - but most things we currently wrap in plastic don't benefit from it (meat included).
So is waxed paper (which is not going to be recycled for sanitary reasons) really better than plastic (which is also not going to be recycled)? I don't remember cloth bags, but saving trees and presumably arable land which could be put to better use by switching from paper to plastic was once a thing........
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>blockquote>So is waxed paper (which is not going to be recycled for sanitary reasons) really better than plastic (which is also not going to be recycled)?
Waxed paper can be composted, which is what you should be doing instead of recycling paper used for food. Paper composts very quickly, and the wax is supposed to be organic and also decompose. Better than plastic lined paper which doesn't compost and must be thrown away where the paper deteriorates and leaves the plastic backing for hundreds of year
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Part of the reason for the difference in price is the benefits of mass production. Another, of course, is that plastic is made from the parts of coal and oil that can't be used for fuel.
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After buying meat at the grocery store I have to wash those so I don't get sick on re-use
You what? What the heck kind of food hygiene standards do you have at your local grocery store!
Bans use of its own products (Score:2)
Most single-use plastic products proudly display "MADE IN CHINA" on their packaging.
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The summary said that this ban was on production as well as use.
Hopefully for real (Score:2)
I hope this is for real and not going to be one of those 'just add this additive to your plastic that makes it biodegradable' (there is no such thing) scams that we've seen in other places like the caribbean (ahem... looking at you Trinidad!) To make it seem like they are doing something, when in essence it's all smoke and mirrors.
Plastic bags are not single use. Ur using it wrong (Score:2)
Too Much Lobbying Here (Score:2)
Why arent we useing paper any way? (Score:1)
Somewhere, sometime soon in China (Score:2)
That's the last straw!!!
This is great news... (Score:2)
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For the USA straw and plastic bag manufacturing union. Those jobs really are coming back! #MAGA
Nope. I bet they'll still manufacture & export single-use plastics to the rest of the world. They've also stopped importing the USA's & EU's plastic waste for recycling.
How does this help? (Score:1)