Brexit Happens (bbc.com) 556
"The UK has officially left the European Union after 47 years of membership," reports the BBC.
The historic moment, which happened at 23:00 GMT, was marked by both celebrations and anti-Brexit protests. Candlelit vigils were held in Scotland, which voted to stay in the EU, while Brexiteers partied in London's Parliament Square... Brexit parties were held in pubs and social clubs across the UK as the country counted down to its official departure.
Hundreds gathered in Parliament Square to celebrate Brexit, singing patriotic songs and cheering speeches from leading Brexiteers, including Nigel Farage... In Northern Ireland, the campaign group Border Communities Against Brexit staged a series of protests in Armagh, near to the border with the Republic of Ireland.
At 2300 GMT, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon tweeted a picture of the EU flag, adding: "Scotland will return to the heart of Europe as an independent country."
The U.K. flag was removed from European Union institutions in Brussels, the BBC notes. And they also quote U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson as saying "For all its strengths and for all its admirable qualities, the EU has evolved over 50 years in a direction that no longer suits this country."
"The most important thing to say tonight is that this is not an end but a beginning..."
Hundreds gathered in Parliament Square to celebrate Brexit, singing patriotic songs and cheering speeches from leading Brexiteers, including Nigel Farage... In Northern Ireland, the campaign group Border Communities Against Brexit staged a series of protests in Armagh, near to the border with the Republic of Ireland.
At 2300 GMT, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon tweeted a picture of the EU flag, adding: "Scotland will return to the heart of Europe as an independent country."
The U.K. flag was removed from European Union institutions in Brussels, the BBC notes. And they also quote U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson as saying "For all its strengths and for all its admirable qualities, the EU has evolved over 50 years in a direction that no longer suits this country."
"The most important thing to say tonight is that this is not an end but a beginning..."
As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Funny)
So, Boston?
Re: (Score:2)
So, https://youtu.be/85iRQdjCzj0 [youtu.be] ?
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:4, Informative)
So, https://youtu.be/85iRQdjCzj0 [youtu.be] ?
Explanation for non-Americans. To most Yanks, that Boston accent sounds weird, because it is non-rhotic. [wikipedia.org]
But to Australian's or most British, it just sounds like a milder American accent, and we don't notice the different "R" sound in car and park.
Re:As a NAZI emigrating from Deutschland... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3)
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Informative)
The weather sucks
Well, that's not entirely accurate. Sometimes there's wind. Then it blows.
Good thing we didn't lose the Revolutionary war (Score:5, Funny)
Re: As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, I disagree for I have had oysters, chilly, bacon, gumbo, & BBQ ribs. I even like Pizza NYK/Chicago/Seattle better than Italian pie. Did I mention bacon?
I am not saying European food isn't great; it absolutely is. But American is no second class!
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry, I disagree for I have had oysters, chilly, bacon, gumbo, & BBQ ribs. I even like Pizza NYK/Chicago/Seattle better than Italian pie. Did I mention bacon?
I am not saying European food isn't great; it absolutely is. But American is no second class!
My home made rubbed cure bacon and hickory brisket is second to none, and my Hungarian apple smoked sausage draws raves. Then there is my smoked trout. Goes great with a triple cream soft cheese. .
A lot of EU food is very good, but I agree with you, they have no standing to claim superiority.
Truth the Brits conquered the world for spices (Score:3)
only to discover they liked bland food.
Re: As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Interesting)
If anyone's interested, I use Jane Grigson's "English Food" a lot: https://janegrigsontrust.org.u... [janegrigsontrust.org.uk] . It's seen as a bit of a milestone in the rebirth of "actual" food in the UK and a departure from the bland awful crap that explains a lot of the sentiment expressed above.
With respect to Brexit: i think it's shit but we'll see how bad it gets at the end of the transition period (2020/12/31)
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Re: As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Just remember to register for your absentee ballots.
I forgot until it was too late the first time I tried to vote while overseas
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK has officially left the European Union after 47 years of membership,
Slashdot math at work.
The EU was created in 1993. 27 years ago.
Prior to that, the UK did just fine. When there was no EU, travel all over Europe was not all that terribly difficult. Conducting business was not all that terribly difficult, and London was a major center of business and finance for all of Europe. The idea that leaving the EU is suddenly the end of the world is complete nonsense.
Re: As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:5, Informative)
Prior to that were various stages of the EU.
After WWII, the US & the UK (Churchill) spearheaded a movement to unify Europe. The concept being that a unified Europe would settle escalations behind closed doors than in open fields. And although most were very disappointed in the progress it was a spectacular success in that regard.
The Council of Europe still exists and the UK is an active & founding member. France became a key player. And their goal was to level the playing field on human rights and democracy. Some of which the UK doesn't like right now.
After this, but still in the 1950s, they started focusing on the economics. And the UK helped create the customs union! Something it wants without the foundational human elements from before.
The EU was just a obvious and progressive step forward, built on a strong foundation and many floors. This was when Germany finally joined as a whole first class nation.
When even Mr Farage or the PM reference "over 50 years of this experiment"... they are talking about all that. Not the last step it took.
Re:As an American immigrating to Europe... (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually the BBC themselves spouted this masterfully inaccurate idiocy. You're entirely right, the EU came about through the Maastricht Treaty. Which was the first time the EU forced a second referendum on a country that dared to vote against it, Denmark on this occasion.
The EU took a different approach in 2005 and instead of trying to force through adoption of a constitution they rewrote it as the Lisbon Treaty, sidestepping national laws and imposing the constitution through other means. Even then they had to force Ireland to hold a re-run after its people dared to disagree in the first referendum.
So the BBC, various Europhile politicians and many senior civil servants collaborated with the EU to try and force a second referendum on the UK to prevent us leaving.
They're still in shock that we've left, partly because they actually believe some of the shit that they come out with.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There is so much wrong in your statement I don't even know where to begin.
"Every other country on the planet" hasn't been a member of the EU and doesn't have its economy, political and social structure intertwined with all the other members of the EU for the last 30+ years and is now leaving the EU. That is a singular situation the UK is in that doesn't compare to other countries.
Sure, eventually the UK will be fine outside the EU, but it will be a while until everything settles.
And as for the claim that th
Re: (Score:2)
That's why there was such a long delay. They knew this one guy on slashdot that has never visited England may not go now. Think of the lost tax revenue. But stronger heads prevailed.
1776 (Score:5, Insightful)
Now they understand how the USA feels about freedom.
Re:1776 (Score:5, Informative)
And soon it will be Scotland's, and then Northern Ireland will rejoin Ireland, and Westminster will rule a kingdom as small as Henry VIII's realm.
Re: (Score:3)
But it will be theirs.
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Well, it will be somebody's.
I think GP's point is it won't belong to voters (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're not a member of the aristocracy that might not turn out so well.
No,they didn't (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
And yet, what if it turns out that John Oliver uses actual news sources as the basis for his comedy? Are you capable of adding that to your synthesis?
Re:1776 (Score:5, Informative)
Worse, they will have ZERO input into any changes or new regulations.
There is now the spectre of the UK having to rebuild immigration/customs.
Also lots of UK Sales tax refunds had been handled from various EU countries, this will need to be recreated inside the UK.
The UK universities etc also get significant funds from the EU, this will stop because they are no longer part of the EU.
Re:1776 (Score:4, Informative)
The loss of EU funding is a major problem. The UK government won't replicate it and what they do hand out is all time limited. Farmers are fucked, regional development is fucked, scientific research is fucked, universities are fucked.
It's a proper cluster-fuck, as the Americans would say.
Re: (Score:3)
Sure. Like Palestine, but on Thames.
I wonder if it will be the Irish setting up the boms again, like in the good ole times?
But probably the best part is that they'll be buying their electricity from the Scots, paying for their own stupidity and racism yet again.
It truly is a gift that keeps on giving.
That's unless queeny croaks AFTER the Scottish independence and Irish secession.
Cause boy will it be comical to watch that sack of bones giving up parts of its title and flag one by one, ending up the last quee
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They voted to stay because they wanted in the EU (Score:3, Informative)
You'd think voters would get tired of being told sweet lies at some point, but they never do.
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When more people in Scotland voted for Brexit than voted for the SNP, I'd have to say I'm really very sceptical.
True independence I could see being something people might very well want. But the "independence" Scotland would have as an EU vassal is no independence at all. It would be less independent and less influential as an EU member than it is as a UK member, where it's both very influential at all levels of government as well as increasingly independent through devolution.
Re:1776 (Score:5, Informative)
In the UK, the Scottish Government does not have a veto on the big constitutional decisions that the Westminster Government makes.
I would say (as someone living in Scotland) that one is a 1st class citizen when your government has a veto, rather than when it does not.
Re: 1776 (Score:3, Insightful)
And just think how free each of the US states will be when they throw off the oppression of the federal government.
Re:1776 (Score:5, Interesting)
It will have the positive outcome of forcing the UK to deal with their own problems instead of blaming Brussels. Poverty, class strife, racism, the lack of technical manufacturing and engineering capability (why can't a British company do it's own 5G?), etc. Brexit is a fine example of pining for a past that didn't truly exist (imperialism is out of favor these days anyway), and for things they sold off long before they ever joined the EU, such as the advanced engineering and scientific development of the Victorian era. Interesting to see Johnson and others promise there will be no hard border with Ireland. They could indeed be right... it's not inconceivable Northern Ireland would be more comfortable with Ireland than with the UK.
Yes Brexit does bring freedom to a few. It will be interesting to see what happens as the implications and consequence trickle down (or bubble up) through society.
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Well said and insightful
Ok, don't under estimate the ruling class (Score:3)
As long as the working class lets themselves be divided they will lose. Doesn't matter how they let it happen.
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It won't just force the UK to deal with its own problems, it'll actually also allow us to. No more hiding behind "but the EU" for the politicians, so they're going to have to actually listen to the populace again.
Poverty
There is almost nobody in poverty in the UK, and a strong social safety net exists for those that are. There does need to be work done on homelessness and it's a constant challenge to assure that all people have an acceptable standard of living but all the people bleating about poverty are using a
Re:1776 (Score:5, Interesting)
However, some people value their sovereignty over all else and you simply do not respect that.
What I don't approve of is outright lies.
It is an absolute lie to say we didn't have sovereignty. The mere fact we were able to leave proves beyond any doubt that we had sovereignty all along.
It's simple. If you don't have sovereignty and try to leave, people will shoot at you until you stop. That's what happened to Texas, Arkansas, Virginia, etc... We left and no one fired a shot. Proof beyond doubt that the claim we weren't sovereign was a lie.
Re:1776 (Score:4, Informative)
But we just threw away out sovereignty!
The UK is only little country that is desperate to do trade deals to make up for the ones it just lost. The EU and the US and Australia and China and everyone else is going to insist that we accept their products, their rules.
We just lost control of our future and gave away our sovereignty to people like Donald Trump.
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I'm waiting for my cheap Cotswald cheese, come on England, hurry up and agree to Count Donald's tithes.
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They can join as the 51st state. Then Bojo can run for president.
It lasted a whole decade! Re:1776 (Score:3, Insightful)
The Declaration of Independence was undone in 1787 and freedom hasn't been known in the USA since.
Re: 1776 (Score:3)
Most historically ignorant comment ever
1933 Germany more appropriate (Score:3)
Now they understand how the USA feels about freedom.
Really? I was unaware that half of American's felt far less free after independence, thought the whole idea utterly insane and wanted to reverse it and rejoin the British Empire as soon as possible. If you want an American equivalent think about how free, let's say, Texas would be if it left the USA and became independent. That's how fucking stupid Brexit is.
Re: (Score:3)
A lot of colonists headed north to Canada when the Americans started their war of secession, and then fought like hell when the Americans showed up trying to spread their "freedom". Its not like they had a referendum, just a bunch of real estate people wanting the freedom to steal the natives land and others wanting the freedom to keep slaves using taxes and such to convince the average person that the King was a tyrant (He said all his subjects were equal) while ignoring Parliament, which even then was Sup
Ireland? (Score:5, Interesting)
So honest question, did they figure out the whole Ireland thing or are they just going to let that slide back into the troubles?
Re:Ireland? (Score:4, Informative)
"Let that slide?"
No, they greased the bottom and gave it a hard shove.
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Re:Ireland? (Score:5, Insightful)
Scottland is definately leaving (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
You don't seem to understand sarcasm. (Score:3)
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WTF. The thing that stopped it was the majority of Scots voting "No" in the last referendum. That was supposed to be a definitive once-in-a-generation event. And, like it or not, the result was a clear "No" in the majority of constituencies across the country.
Like Brexit, the losing side want another "people's vote" to revisit the question again. It was already answered, definitively, in the original referendum. Have another one in thirty years, maybe sentiment will have changed then definitively in fa
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Yeah. Support for Scottish independence has fallen and more people in Scotland voted to leave the EU than voted for the SNP in any of the last three elections.
The SNP distort the national debate yet are dragging Scotland into the shit, failing the Scottish people on education and health, despite getting far more money to spend per head of population than England. They really ought to fucking apologise.
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They haven't figured it out, and it is up to the EU to decide if the EU has borders or not first.
If the EU decides that they do want to have borders, and they don't want Ireland to be a "duty-free import zone," then we're back at the Troubles.
It seems likely that the EU will prioritize the rest of the EU over a tiny slice of a non-EU country, and so Troubles.
The only thing you have to watch for in the news is if they're going back to a hard border. (which is required under EU law, but we don't know when)
The
Re: (Score:3)
Margaret Thatcher predicted this (Score:3, Interesting)
Look up Bruges Speech from 1988, she warned against unbridled immigration resulting in extremism and the eventual rise of populists that will doom the EU experiment.
The EU experiment clearly failed, France's Macron admitted he is too afraid to put it to a vote, and the rise of populist parties across the rest of the EU indicate that it may be the end within a decade, maybe two.
The imigration didn't do it (Score:5, Interesting)
Worked too. I guess in that way the whole thing failed. But I wouldn't call it an experiment. Folks knew exactly what the EU was and what it as for.
Also, the Baby Boomers that made this happen (the UK and France had one too) will die in 20 years. Expect to see this undone by Gen X & the Millennials. The damage will take a while though to fix.
Re: The imigration didn't do it (Score:5, Insightful)
If you've got the balls go watch this [youtu.be]. I know you're a troll, but if you really are British then you're gonna die for no other reason than to line some rich asshole's pockets. Just like an American. Welcome to the club. It sucks.
Re:Margaret Thatcher predicted this (Score:5, Insightful)
It is when more than half of all wealth (Score:5, Interesting)
There's an old joke: Two workers and an Aristocrat are around a table with 12 cookies. The Aristocrat grabs 11 cookies and gobbles them up, then turns to one of the workers and says, "Hey, better watch out, that guy's gonna eat your cookie".
That's the whole system in a nut shell. It's been 2000 years. We have the internet. We know what bigotry and class divides are. We shouldn't be falling for this and we still are. Jesus, what a timeline.
I'm Interested to see the oucome. (Score:2, Interesting)
It'll be interesting to see how they fare under the new economy, and negotiating the new internal rules with the nations within it.
I do wonder at what point they'll have to potentially change the name though - is it still a "United Kingdom" at some point?
Honestly - what do they get out of this? Like, any of them?
I've tried to see any value to Brexit, and none of it makes sense in the context of losing access to preferred terms with those local markets and regional access.
It's like if you were playing some
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, that stupid uninformed public. If only they were as smart as the informed people like you. Brexit is about immigration. The public isn't stupid. They knew what they voted for.
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It's actually about a lot more than that. A lot of people didn't give a shit about immigration, but did give quite a large shit about regulations imposed by the EU which were arbitrary or stupid.
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You are right.
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Regulations like the ability to travel to other EU countries without having to buy medical insurance and being able to afford to use your phone when in another EU country, or regulations like the ability to retire in the sun (Spain), or regulations allowing personal imports of tax paid alcohol, etc.. How about regulations that allow people to buy RHD cars in other EU countries, thus keeping the price of UK-only
Poorly (Score:5, Interesting)
And then there's Scotland, which unless the Brits bring violence to bear will be leaving (the last Scottish leave referendum largely failed because they didn't want to have to re-join the EU). Scotland is a huge part of the UK's economy, and losing her will be devastating.
Then there's the economic mess that comes from renegotiating the trade deals.
And then there's the loss of London as financial the entry point for the rest of the EU. This will cost billions and billions. The ruling class will be out that money, sure, but they will take it out of the working class' hide. When the folks at the top lose money they don't say "oh well, shucks" they slash jobs and wages.
All this for jobs that are never coming back. Even if the factories do come back they'll be 99% automated.
Brexit is just a power play by the aristocracy. And they won. The every day Brit is going to hurt. When their Baby Boomers die off it'll fall to Gen X & the Millennials to pick up the pieces, but it's going to be an awful 30-40 years. A lost generation.
Idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Idiots whose jobs depend on the EU (like the Nissan employees in Sunderland), what do they think will happen?
2. Idiots who think that the UK will get a favourable trade deal with the EU: The EU has a vested interest in making countries that leave have their economies fail. The EU negotiators are not going to negotiate a deal that's good for the UK.
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Also the EU has a mercantilist, protectonist mindset. They want to sign free trade agreements with "lesser countries", and then regulate the shit out of what those countries can sell to them, while on the other hand dumping their markets with cheap industrial EU products.
Oh wait, every other "free trade agreement" is like that.
The Netherlands destroyed some african country's small productions of onions by local farmers. These countries are impoverished further, and their populations flee and end up in the E
Yup. Good luck with trade negotiations (Score:2)
Good luck with trade negotiations, I predict this will be the start of a global financial slow down
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Re: Yup. Good luck with trade negotiations (Score:3, Insightful)
That was a quite considerable reduction (Score:3)
Now instead of being ruled by two crazy, power hungry, out of control governments, they're ruled by only one.
It's like 50% less crazies dictating what they can or can't do.
American here, I suppose this is good for me (Score:2, Troll)
Oh, and the jobs aren't coming back. Any more than they were for the folks at Carrier. A few factories will be built to skirt import tariffs, manned almost entirely by robots. And the British ruling class will make sure what can
Re: (Score:3)
Also the Russians will be pleased, since if they ever get on their feet again and want to go to war they don't have a United Front to face off against.
If only people had thought about that after WWII and setup up some kind of Organization, maybe established by a Treaty that covered the North Atlantic region. Maybe we could call it NATO. We could even put its headquarters in Brussels.
NATO predates the EU. In fact a lot of people think the success of establishing NATO gave credibility to the idea of EU.
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Border controls (Score:3)
Before the UK gets too worried about contraband freely flowing across an open Irish border, it should consider the open border between California & the rest of the US. There are a metric shit-ton of things you can legally buy & sell in Arizona, Nevada, etc. that technically fail to meet California standards. Every year, millions of them get bought by Californians & taken home (or bought online) without enforcement or consequences.
California knows it can't police the border, so it just polices BUSINESSES. If Joe Angeleno buys a non-CARB lawnmower in Las Vegas... oh well. If Walmart tried selling them in San Diego, it would be punished. If someone in Florida sells a non-CARB chainsaw to a Californian on eBay, it's ignored. If Amazon sells one, it gets fined. In the grand scheme of things, 99.98% of things get sold by big companies that California focuses on... everything else is a rounding error.
The fact is, someone buying a chocolate bar or ice cream cone from a street vendor or small business doesn't *care* whether it's properly labeled for sale in the UK, EU, or even the US, as long as it's reasonable in a country they think is OK(*).
(*) Technically, it's impossible to sell a food product containing eggs manufactured to US or UK standards in the other country, because both countries have mutually-conflicting regulations about them that have no middle ground compromise (US requires washing eggs, UK prohibits it. People in both countries survive.)
Re: (Score:3)
About that washing eggs part, there is a little bit more to it. By washing an egg you remove its natural bacteria resistant barrier. As such you can no longer keep the egg unrefrigerated or its content will rapidly spoil. So you either wash your eggs and keep them conditioned (refrigerated as close to freezing as possible, in a microbe resistant container) to prevent spoilage. Or don't wash your eggs and you can keep them in decent shape for several weeks in a mere basket in your cellar.
Now, the question is
I haven't been seen all that much coverage (Score:2)
Also what did they do about trade deals? A Hard Brexit was going to be a disaster. Did they actually do that? Or is this Brexit in Name Only (BINO) to appease folks?
Here's hoping this isn't what crashes the global economy.
B. Johnson to pay 350 million GBP to NHS per week? (Score:4, Funny)
Now that Brexit has completed, will Boris Johnson be paying National Health Service the 350,000,000 GBP per week via check?
Or will Boris Johnson pay by cash and deliver it via bus?
Middle Englanders... (Score:3, Insightful)
...got what they wanted because they outnumber everyone else & always vote. That's also how the UK's ended up with such an ignorant, right-wing, incompetent bunch of idiots in charge. The EU has always been unpopular among middle Englanders. Their manifesto is the Daily Mail, which is something like your purse-lipped mother-in-law who disapproves of any kind of change & thinks the past was a much better time than the present, even though just about every bit of evidence you can find points to the contrary.
This was very much a decision based on affect & emotion.
Then again, middle Englanders are waaay more socialist than anywhere in the USA, even after 3 decades of Thatcherism (The witch may be dead but the spell lives on).
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If only "Middle Englanders" were as smart as you. If only!
They're about to get a lot less socialist (Score:3)
I hope Bernie Sanders wins. That'll at least buy them some time.
Re: (Score:3)
A complete failure of empathy for your countrymen who have been badly affected by globalism
How on earth is it a failure of empathy? Oh yeah I forgot you prefer feelz over facts. And you are dead set against personal responsibility, so you believe no one should own their mistakes.
Brexit is going to make their problems much, much worse. Globalisation has happened and it's not going to unhappen whether we are in the EU or outside of it. And if you think handing a heap of unfettered power to the fucking Tories
Nigel Farage (Score:2)
Populism on the rise (Score:4, Insightful)
In the UK, Farange triumphs. His right-wing populists have won the Brexit with fake news, distorted facts and false promises.
In the U.S. a self-serving, narcissist president is being protected by his party, because the base likes his mobster style rule.
Not surprisingly, these entities have dubious connections to Putin's Russia and the ruling oligarchs. The man whose primary goal in life is to dismantle NATO and bring down the west.
What a fucking mess. I feel like I'm in the alternative reality of Back to the Future, where Biff has taken over the town and things are just wrong and corrupted.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe, but rumors about the US playing hardball over the NHS in any upcoming trade deal suggest Britain is about to bent over a lot of barrels.
Re: (Score:2)
What is so bad about the EU?
Re: (Score:2)
Globalization is terrible for ordinary humans. Great for corporations, bad for you.
Re: (Score:3)
"Ease of access to foreign goods and services is good for everybody."
No it isn't. It is good for corporations, but not for regular humans. It isn't a suprise that in 2020 corporations rule the planet and wages are stagnant. But hey, at least you have your cheap Chinese shit, right?
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
About a week ago. He did send some vodka and potatoes. If I convince enough Americans to vote for Trump in 2020 I might get a weekend at a dacha. Us Russian trolls control every outcome you don't like (but don't control the outcomes that you DO like).
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks we try. We do realize the enormous influence Slashdot has on world politics. I mean, all the world leaders are regularly on here and read the comments. If you want to change the world, you need to control Slashdot.
Re: (Score:2)
You are probably right. That is why Putin only sent me vodka and potatoes. I hope to get my next assignment convincing people on Reddit to vote for Trump. I can only dream.
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I...I think this is the first time I've seen 'OK Boomer' used towards an actual boomer.