The Windows 10 Start Menu Now Harasses Firefox Users (mspoweruser.com) 122
The "Suggested" section on the Windows 10 Start Menu used to just promote its own apps, reports MSPowerUser. But for some users (who haven't disable Microsoft's "Suggestions"), that menu is now showing a new kind of ad listing:
The listing displays "Still using Firefox? Microsoft Edge is here", to all users of the former -- even with the latter already installed.
The ad provides a link to download the chromium-based browser.
Undoubtedly, the suggestions won't end here. Microsoft is reportedly planning to sprawl similar ads out to Wordpad, to encourage users to download official Office apps.
The Windows Latest blog points out that Microsoft's "Suggestions" can be "permanently disabled with a few tweaks unlike the Chrome ads in Google search results."
The ad provides a link to download the chromium-based browser.
Undoubtedly, the suggestions won't end here. Microsoft is reportedly planning to sprawl similar ads out to Wordpad, to encourage users to download official Office apps.
The Windows Latest blog points out that Microsoft's "Suggestions" can be "permanently disabled with a few tweaks unlike the Chrome ads in Google search results."
not sure I see a problem (Score:2)
I think I saw that Microsoft Edge thing a while back. Ignored it, continued to use Firefox, haven't been nagged about MS Edge....
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The problem isn't us. But people like our parents who will believe what the advertising says over what their children who they had paid thousands of dollars in college education for them.
"Look Microsoft is discouraging users from using Firefox that means it will no longer run on windows soon."
Where I was able to "convince" my parents to switch to Firefox 15 years ago, as it was much safer then using IE at the time. And by Convince they heard it on TV that there are all these viruses attacking IE, and shoul
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Maybe yours - my Grandmother, who was born before 1900, was well known for saying "The advertising speaks very highly of it dear!" sarcastically implying that no one in their right mind would speak highly of the product without being handsomely paid for doing it.
We grew up thinking "advertising is a sure sign the product was crap", and I was probably older than 20 before I realised there were people who did not think the same way.
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You probably did what most reasonably savvy users tend to do when something that annoys them happens. Right click it and check if there's an option to just delete the thing that annoys you.
Which works for this particular form of advertising.
Because if you don't, it should keep nagging you even if you were to actually click through the and install edge.
Bye bye - get fucked Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
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You won't be getting security updates anymore, so you can't stay on Windows 7 forever. What's your upgrade path? Mac or Linux?
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What's your upgrade path? Mac or Linux?
Yes
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Win 7 pre-SP1 and unpatched is still more stable and more secure than the latest live build of 10.
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Go LTSC route with either fresh install every year when "free trial" expires or just use an activator for it. Enterprise still calls home more than LTSC.
Restoring justice (Score:5, Insightful)
uBlock Origin removes them quite efficiently. In fact I've never seen a single Google Chrome ad in my entire life
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Shh... you're interrupting the "Google is evil so Microsoft isn't so bad after all" defense team
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Switch to Google Chrome today! [google.com]
Glad to help, no need to thank me.
Same (Score:2)
>"The listing displays "Still using Firefox? Microsoft Edge is here", to all users of the former -- even with the latter already installed. "
Its the same crap that Google pulled for years on their search page that got people hooked on Chrome. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective, since Mozilla isn't about anything else) Mozilla can't do such things.
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The difference it was on the Google Web Site vs on your own PC.
I am not defending Google, however most of us know what is in our browser window can be ads and content our computer is handling. Having this on the start bar is indeed very different.
It is like instead of a check engine light in you car, you get an advertisement for Toyota newest car.
Windows 10 Start Menu Sucks Anyways (Score:5, Interesting)
It's so cluttered I don't even bother looking at it. Click Start, type, and click when what I'm looking for shows up.
Re:Windows 10 Start Menu Sucks Anyways (Score:4, Informative)
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Classic shell has stopped development due to MS breaking some features with every "major update" in win10 cycle.
It was forked in open shell:
https://open-shell.github.io/O... [github.io]
Which has all the same problems as classic shell, but at least there are some attempts at fixing things that MS breaks in win10.
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Classic shell has stopped development due to MS breaking some features with every "major update" in win10 cycle.
It was forked in open shell:
https://open-shell.github.io/O... [github.io]
Which has all the same problems as classic shell, but at least there are some attempts at fixing things that MS breaks in win10.
I have yet to come across any issues with it on latest build of Win10... what problems are you alluding to?
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You can read the original bug tracker as well as original developer's statement on why he's ceasing development of class shell for details. They're both in the archive which can be found on the page linked above.
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You can just read on Classic Shell's original dev's statement on problems with Classic Shell mr. concern troll.
Open-Shell (Score:3)
While I'm not aware of any current major issues with the final version of Classic Shell, it's likely some will crop up at some point, since Microsoft changes the way things work pretty significantly every six months now. Open-Shell is basically identical and I think it even imports your settings when you install it, so you should consi
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It's so cluttered I don't even bother looking at it. Click Start, type, and click when what I'm looking for shows up.
Hmm, I'll have to let Microsoft know that they are missing an opportunity to feed you ads when you search for things in the start menu.
Bonus points for clicking the ads instead of loading the thing you meant to launch.
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"Suggestions..." (Score:5, Insightful)
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You can turn off your Mother in law too, but it's kinda illegal in most countries and usually doesn't sit well with the SO.
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I have a suggestion [pdxretro.com] for Microsoft.
Complains about Firefox but not Chrome? (Score:2)
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Just saying, Firefox is the least of Edge's worries. And the ad's are popping up for Edge when Firefox is the default. Or no ad's against Chrome because the framework is the exact same thing.
This just tells you something about how money is changing hands, that's all.
Apple (Score:1)
Re: Mozilla (Score:2)
The all-too-frequent updates to Firefox because of gaping security holes always, for me at least, result in obtrusive tab-ads for various Mozilla products like Sync and Account appearing after a restart. No way to switch them off that I can see.
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also nags users of Firefox and Chrome via system popups.
Since when?
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Why not use Classic Shell? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice Windows 7 start menu interface, and File Explorer enhancements. Lots of options as well, if one wants to do some configuration (I just run default and it is nice).
I use a Windows 10 type app maybe once a month (and they are crappy, damn you Netflix!). I wish the ESC key did anything in those apps. All mouse, all for touch. I feel my tendons aging when using them.
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Why not use Win 7?
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Loss of support and Corporate driving things (forced conversion).
Windows 10 isn't bad, but the user interface is a shit show in a dumpster fire. This includes all of the Windows 10 apps.
Windows 7 (and XP) had very nice and intuitive interfaces..
Shoot, they even messed up Server 2012 R2 (and probably other versions, I don't want to check), horrible interface (I can't run an alternative UI interface on servers),
On the servers, we have to click in the lower left and then move to the upper right to sign off -
"Still using Firefox? Microsoft Edge is here" (Score:2)
Yes, come to us, all the users are pleased.
Both of them.
A constant fight (Score:4, Interesting)
To bring Windows 10 under control.
It's broken by design and no amount of tweaking will ever solve this rubbish of an OS.
I flatly refuse to use it. Consequences be damned.
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More proof (Score:3)
The operating system should NOT be recommending particular software.
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I'm afraid that boat sailed long ago. Ubuntu had Amazon ads and even ads in the terminal. Apple was pushing their bloatware via their updater on Windows. Microsoft is, as usual, late to this party.
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Ubuntu had an Amazon shortcut in the launcher, you can just remove and it'll be no more present in 20.04. It's not an ad. In the terminal, it's a reminder about the availability of Canonical Live Patch (when not installed), which allow the user to replace installed kernel without reboot. Again, not an ad.
Anyway, this is just the typical argument that people makes trying to justify their bad acts citing other people bad acts.
Replace the menu (Score:3)
Instantly you get rid of the incredibly stupid interface that was obviously designed for touch screens.
thats the final straw (Score:2)
DistroWatch: Put the fun back into computing. (Score:2)
I don't see them (Score:2)
Open Shell FTW!
First they ignore you... (Score:1)
I guess Firefox has already won, but Microsoft wants to go back to the third stage anyway. What a waste of resources. One reason people like me use Firefox is that it does not collect my private information and helps me keep it out of reach from others. I know it is not perfect, they make mistakes like everybody, but at least they are on my side.
*Quote misattributed to Ghandi. [snopes.com]
Microsoft should respect it's users (Score:1)
Bloat. (Score:2)
Win 7 installs in 16GB.
Win 10 takes 40GB, and all you get for that extra bloat is telemetry, DRM libraries and advertising.
Evasive maneouvres (Score:1)
Use portable apps (https://portableapps.com).
It sports plenty of applications, amongst which Firefox.
Windows won't even know it's there.
Soooooooo glad I switched to Linux (Score:2)
Seriously, I am so damn glad I switched to Linux. I feel sorry for people that are forced to use Windows.
If you're NOT forced to use Windows and you're NOT doing anything exotic that requires some specialized Windows-only software, why not switch? Why continue to let Microsoft sell your data for profit and constantly push this advertising crap on you?
You paid for this stuff, why are you tolerating ads in your operating system?
It's like Windows users have Stockholm Syndrome or something. Are you terrified to
I don't want Windows to improve, (Score:3)
I want it to die off. I applaud everything MSFT does to make the Windows user experience miserable because it's good for alternative operating system adoption.
Microsoft.... (Score:2)
Microsoft Apps have ads in them? (Score:2)
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the point is the start menu being used to show advertisements...
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You can always replace the Microsoft abortion of a Start Menu with a real one, then you do not really care what the Microsoft abortion does because you don't have to look at it. Mind you, you have to make a few registry changes to turn off the continuous diddling with the Start Menu that you no longer see -- such as the background Edge process that downloads the tile contents and so forth.
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
How to opt out of evil? (Score:2)
I think you're missing the point. Who cares what product is being shown! Why is my fucking start menu showing me advertisements at all?
Glad to see you got the Insightful mod you deserve, but I want to take a swing at answering your question, backing it up with a few choice bits of anecdotal evidence from my latest purely involuntary dealings with Microsoft. Actually, "involuntary" isn't a strong enough word. Can I get an "anti-voluntary"?
My answer is that Microsoft does not actually believe you own your own computer. Yes, you paid for the hardware, but it's worthless without Microsoft's software on it, and you don't own that software. (Mic
Re:How to opt out of evil? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why I laugh when people claim Windows is better than Linux because you get "support"..
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This is why I laugh when people claim Windows is better than Linux because you get "support"..
An ad for suspenders comes free with every order, but Depends are not included.
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This is why I laugh when people claim Windows is better than Linux because you get "support"..
Basically true, but it doesn't have to be that way and it shouldn't be that way. I'm wondering how you got an "Insightful" mod beyond "I agree" for that short comment.
In general, when you buy a product, your purchase should certainly include whatever you need to use the product. If the product is complicated, then the degree of complexity should be made clear up front so that you can made a meaningful decision about what you are really buying and whether or not you should pay that price for it.
When you thin
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This is why I laugh when people claim Windows is better than Linux because you get "support"..
They just want to make sure that they can continue to monetize you. If you really want to hear some high-speed bullshit, call Microsoft Support and idly mention that you've been thinking of switching to Linux.
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I think you're missing the point. Who cares what product is being shown! Why is my fucking start menu showing me advertisements at all?
Actually, "involuntary" isn't a strong enough word.
It is much too strong a word, it is blatantly absurd and shows that your lack of philosophical understanding of your place in the Universe has grown to the point of mental disability.
My answer is that Microsoft does not actually believe you own your own computer.
They never even considered this idea, because they don't care who owns it. The entire concern is below their interest. And if you convinced them to think about it for a minute, they would only try to sell you some hardware.
Public masturbation of 97333 (Score:2)
Z^-1
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Keyfinder is your friend:
https://www.magicaljellybean.c... [magicaljellybean.com]
Free as well for the basic version which seems to work well enough.
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Thanks for the response, and I should have mentioned that I am aware of the approach but concerned for two reasons:
(1) Why does Microsoft apparently deny this is possible? Or at least they have been remarkably evasive whenever I've tried to pursue this option with them. Especially in this last go round, I tried really hard to ask for that solution.
(2) How can I trust the company, especially in the case of free software? If there is no money up front, there is obviously an obvious source of money behind the
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Why is my fucking start menu showing me advertisements at all?
If you valued your time, you'd respect your freedom, because it is what lets you control your time.
If you valued control of your computer, so that you could control your time, you would choose software that respects your freedom.
You did not value your time, or respect your freedom. That is why your fucking start menu is showing you ads.
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Because MS has zero respect for your time, space, money, and privacy.
The fact that the majority of people put up with this shit tells me they don't value integrity.
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I have Pro. The setting exists for those suggestions, so I don't think the edition matters.
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You can turn it off even in the basic version afaik. And at least in the past when I poked around, it's turned on by default in all of them, including enterprise.
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Because you didn't pay for the full software suite. You got some basic cheap version. Get Pro/Enterprise and the start menu could be set up to be completely empty.
Or... just install ClassicShell. It's free, it takes two minutes to do.
http://www.classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net]
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And no longer maintained.
Doesn't mean it suddenly crumbled to dust and stopped working.
Re: So? (Score:2)
Not monopolies.
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The suggestion feature shouldn't be an advertising billboard.
I can get if you search for web browsing, it may say use Edge, but it shouldn't troll you for using Firefox or wanting to use it over edge.
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"Shouldn't?" Why would take agency away from Microsoft? If you're using Windows, you already conceded that Microsoft chooses how the operating system should and should not opperate.
If you want to participate in deciding what should happen, you have to make choices that place you in that role. For example, using software that is under your own control.
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Yes, suggestions for their own products. I think all companies do that to some extent.
Never seen overt advertising for Apple products in Apple OSes or Apps.
In fact, for example, when using the AppleTV+ App, you have to scroll down several "groups" in the program-listings to find the AppleTV+ Shows. It's actually kind of annoying.
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"for example, when using the AppleTV+ App, you have to scroll down several "groups" in the program-listings to find the AppleTV+ Shows. It's actually kind of annoying."
Inflexibility of the UI is why people don't buy CrApple stuff.
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Yes, suggestions for their own products. I think all companies do that to some extent.
I've never seen it in Linux Mint. How do I turn this marvelous feature on?
Re:So? (Score:5, Informative)
I mean, isn't it expected for them to recommend their own browser?
Your OS has no business advertising anything (hello, Canonical).
Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you pay for it agree 100%, if you get it for free, it can be reasonable for them to include ads to get some revenue stream.
What about all those folks who paid for an earlier windows and were transitioned to 10 without their consent?
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They can spend 5 seconds opening the settings and turning it off.
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btw, don't know why my previous comment was marked as troll, I don't like ads and don't generally use software with it, but if you don't pay you can't blame the developer for deciding to put some ads to make some money fo
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Odd. How does Linux manage to do without pestering me?
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If you pay for it agree 100%, if you get it for free, it can be reasonable for them to include ads to get some revenue stream.
Well, I could live with it as an opt-in. But if you're writing an OS and not getting a revenue stream off the back of it (and, let's face it, MS get a HUGE indirect revenue stream from Windows) then you're just doing it wrong.
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Re:So? (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean, isn't it expected for them to recommend their own browser?
Sure, as long as you provide explicit instructions on how to disable that annoying and irrelevant bullshit for every corporate user. And then you follow that up by confirming that no future "Build XXXX" patch is going to revert those setting back to the default bullshit.
Yes, business is annoyed, and for good reason. Corporate users in a highly regulated environment don't even hold local admin rights to install software, and end users installing software without approval usually violates policy. Worthless advertising, is worthless.
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Re:So? (Score:5, Informative)
This sort of thing is disabled by default on Enterprise versions of Windows 10.
- no Cortana
- no semiannual feature upgrades
- not a single tile on the default Start menu
- telemetry can be set to 0 (the lowest level)
- no "Show suggestions occassionally in Start"
- receives security and stability updates for ten years (unlike Windows 10 Home & Pro versions, which reach "end of service" after just 18 months from their initial release)
- no Metro/Windows 8-style/Modern/Windows Store/Universal/Windows apps like Store, Edge, Calendar, Camera, News, Weather, etc.
- no zombie games like Candy Crush Soda Saga, Bubble Witch 3 Saga, March of Empires, etc.
It's the best version of Windows 10 but you can't buy individual licences.
Re:So? (Score:4, Informative)
And for those that don't want to pay to get rid of that bullshit, there's always O&O Win10ShutUp.
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https://www.digitalsoftwarepla... [digitalsof...planet.com]
The worst OS? (Score:1)
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I get all these features out-of-the-box with Win 7 Ultimate SP2 (available from any torrent site for free.)
No App Store (Score:2)
I run the LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel) Enterprise Edition. For the most part I don't miss any of the features you list. It would be nice to have the choice of running Edge, but there are enough 3rd party browsers around that I don't really care.
I have run into the occasional piece of software that can only be installed via the App Store, however. It presents quite a roadblock when a software maker doesn't provide a stand-alone or stub installer for download.
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Not too aggressively, or they risk yet another anti-trust prosecution.
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The point of a computer operating system is to facilitate the running of programs.
File allocation Tables: Allow programs and user to access files without knowing where they physically are on the disk.
Executable files to allow programs larger then the allocated RAM to be loaded into RAM more consistently.
A UI environment for the environment which allows end users to find and run these programs. Going into a multi-tasking environment a windowed environment became popular. Thus expanding the operating system.
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Re:hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, just like there are still people who ask pompously disingenuous questions.