Trump and Chip Makers Including Intel Seek Semiconductor Self-Sufficiency (wsj.com) 77
The Trump administration and semiconductor companies are looking to jump-start development of new chip factories in the U.S. as concern grows about reliance on Asia as a source of critical technology. From a report: A new crop of cutting-edge chip factories in the U.S. would reshape the industry and mark a U-turn after decades of expansion into Asia by many American companies eager to reap investment incentives and take part in a robust regional supply chain. The coronavirus pandemic has underscored longstanding concern by U.S. officials and executives about protecting global supply chains from disruption. Administration officials say they are particularly concerned about reliance on Taiwan, the self-governing island China claims as its own, and the home of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the world's largest contract chip manufacturer and one of only three companies capable of making the fastest, most-cutting-edge chips.
Trump administration officials are in talks with Intel Corp., the largest American chip maker, and with TSMC, to build factories in the U.S., according to correspondence viewed by The Wall Street Journal and people familiar with the discussions. "We're very serious about this," said Greg Slater, Intel's vice president of policy and technical affairs. Mr. Slater said Intel's plan would be to operate a plant that could provide advanced chips securely for both the government and other customers.
Trump administration officials are in talks with Intel Corp., the largest American chip maker, and with TSMC, to build factories in the U.S., according to correspondence viewed by The Wall Street Journal and people familiar with the discussions. "We're very serious about this," said Greg Slater, Intel's vice president of policy and technical affairs. Mr. Slater said Intel's plan would be to operate a plant that could provide advanced chips securely for both the government and other customers.
Already posted (Score:1, Redundant)
This was already posted....YESTERDAY
Read your own damn front page before posting articles.
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This was already posted....YESTERDAY
Read your own damn front page before posting articles.
Super Duper!
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What does AoA have to do with this, I don't understand?!
https://youtu.be/MAANp009L1c [youtu.be]
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O..M..G That was ... like ... so long ago.
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Hey, at least dupes give that classic Slashdot feel. And it's not a story about women in computing, or gerbil worming, or the Rona. Actual tech is involved.
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What about 3d printed gerbil worming aids, those are tech, right? Or do they have to be soaked in grits first?
Re:That's nice and all (Score:5, Interesting)
Ethanol is made by fermenting sugar.
Isopropyl alcohol is made from oil. In theory we could make as much of it as we have oil, but you'd need a place to put the other oil byproducts like gasoline, diesel, kerosene (jet fuel), tar, etc. And right now those things are not selling, meaning you'd have to store them somewhere. But refined oil products take up more volume than the original crude oil. And given that so much storage is being taken up by shipments of excess crude oil that its price has gone negative, manufacturing isopropyl alcohol would also likely be a money-loser right now. The storage costs of the other oil byproducts from making isoproply would exceed the money you could make selling it.
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Close. What happened is that the futures market was approaching the data you mentioned, and it was not clear if there was going to be enough storage or if somebody was going to be left holding a very expensive bag, and so the price went negative while everybody scrambled for a chair. But by the end of the day, there were just enough chairs for everybody, and the price stabilized before the actual delivery date switchover happened.
The incorrect simplification that you describe, which is rampant on the intern
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Intel just wants free money to help it catch up with AMD and everyone else. They are struggling with 10nm while AMD has an advantage at 7nm and TSMC and Samsung foundries are introducing 5nm.
Re:That's nice and all (Score:5, Interesting)
Also the naming conventions for the process nodes are more marketing than anything else. If you examine the various feature sizes, etc. then what TSMC and Samsung call their smaller nodes is more similar to what Intel refers to as the next node up, so the reality is that Intel isn't really that far behind. They probably would have been a lot better off if they just admitted that 10nm was a complete disaster and moved on instead of continually trying to get it working.
What's really killing Intel is that they needed to start designing a new microarchitecture years ago and have been completely caught with their pants down by AMD. Even with a really good process, trying to build monolithic 64 core chips isn't really viable. AMD's chiplet-based design means that they're going to be able to have better CPUs at lower prices in the highest margin segments of the market. Things are going to get particularly ugly for them over the next year or two when they're still trying to get back in form whereas AMD is going to be operating at the peak of their game as they're able to incorporate more of the things they've slowly been working on into their designs and they have more money to invest into R&D. Now that they're not starved for money on a regular basis they've already released some of the best GPUs they've had in generations.
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> Intel just wants free money to help it catch up with AMD and everyone else.
That doesn't make any sense though? Why would a company want to produce better products or gain an economic advantage. Are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?
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Hearing the council declaring that dude's land as "blighted" as a way to force him out to make way for Foxconn was one of the most infuriating things that I have ever heard. I was listening to it in my car and I nearly had to pull over.
doing it right... for now (Score:2)
This is the right way to bring manufacturing jobs to the U.S. I'm sure they'll find some way to completely screw it up though...
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Oh... don't worry... it will definitely not be screwed up. I say that with complete seriousness. Too often folks keep thinking that government is screwing something up when they fail to realize that for the most part... what was intended is exactly what happened. You view it as a screw up because people keep buying into the following farce...
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." ~Hanlon's razor
The problem with this law is that it invokes "never"
There are TEAMS o
Re: doing it right... for now (Score:2)
Promising things about the future and can't control. This is why we love little MrAstray.
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Predicting the corruption of politicians and the stupidity of voters is no Olympian feat.
People here constantly bitch about the corruption of the politicians and the stupidity of voters, but once I say something about it you start acting as though corruption and stupidity are not that common. So which is it? Are politicians not as corrupt as many here suggest or are Voters not as stupid as many here suggest?
Have you thought about how stupid you look right about now?
I look at human history and it looks lik
Re: doing it right... for now (Score:2)
I haven't made any predictions though, Mr Astray.
You are funny when you know your "arguments" are called out.
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...you calling me out is the same as a prediction that I am wrong.
Sorry you lack the intelligence to figure these things out. But nice try, trying to avoid looking stupid. You can't even follow your own name well, but at least you have something to aspire too.
Though I suspect avoiding any responsibility or logic are your primary namesakes... amiright?
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If the wealthy are stepping back from globalism, I for one welcome our new local-manufacturing overlords, at least for stuff consumed in the US.
Re: doing it right... for now (Score:2)
Labor costs aren't such a big part of high-tech manufacturing though. That's why we should bring semi-conductor jobs to the U.S. and leave electronics assembly to SE Asia.
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labor costs are a major part of just about everything, but how many people could get a raise or be hired if a few Executives, Investors, and Board-members had their pay cut?
The problem is that every effort is often spend to cut costs around humans having jobs and money. The market is one giant machine trying to squeeze that last penny of profit from something instead of just building a very robust economy. COVID has been eating everyone lunch.
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labor costs are a major part of just about everything, but how many people could get a raise or be hired if a few Executives, Investors, and Board-members had their pay cut?
Almost none. Can you math? We math here on Slashdot. Intel's executive team, the top 5, have a combined compensation of 17.5 million a year. Lets say they cut their pay in half and distributed it equally among Intel's 111,000 employees, Wow, everyone would get and extra 6 whole dollars and 57 pennies each and every month! Economic freeeeeeeedom!
Meg Whitman (Score:2)
> Lets say they cut their pay in half and distributed it equally among Intel's 111,000 employees, Wow, everyone would get and extra 6 whole dollars
And even worse that that, for half the salary, Intel could afford to hire Meg Whitman in the CEO chair instead of Bob Swan. Ask the former HP employees how they worked for them. A great CEO leading your company is worth a lot more than the $1.50 / year extra salary you'd get by having a cheap CEO.
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I'll see your Meg Whitman and raise you a Carly Fiorina.
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No Brainer (Score:2)
Even with the small scale intel production here it hasn't made sense that they don't do this for decades now.
Strategically it is crucial to have this infrastructure and we have all the federal lands in the world we can dedicate to this along with plenty of subsidies we no longer need on oil to shift. Imagine a world where the chip fabs speak English with an easily understood american dialect and accent and don't have issues every rainy season or Tsunami or other weather related event.
Hell build a giant arti
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Sudetenland (Score:2)
Re:Sudetenland (Score:4)
maybe Sudetenland .....
This is a pretty good analogy. The Sudetenland was ethnically German, and that gave Hitler the cover he needed. China has always seen Taiwan as a renegade province filled with rebellious Mandarin-speaking Chinese people. I don't think anyone would be willing to go to war to stop them. Many of the world's powers outside of the US agrees with China and sees it as an essentially internal matter.
Re:Sudetenland (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean the CCP has always seen Taiwan as a renegade province right after Chiang Kai-Shek moved there after Mao let him exhaust his troops against that Japanese so the CCP could pick over the carcass.
The problem for the CCP is they are a party running an illegitimate government. No one should see them as anything but. The CCP needs to capture Taiwan to show that nothing can resist the ineptitude of the CCP.
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If they do it with Biden in the White House, America just might let them get away with it — as we did allow Russia to have its way with Ukraine [theoaklandpress.com] during the previous time Biden (the Foreign [nytimes.com] Policy [nytimes.com] Expert [washingtontimes.com]) was in the White House.
And it was just as predictable [independent.co.uk] too...
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Ask yourself this. If China were to just take Taiwan, who would stop them? Who would risk doing so?
If global semiconductor manufacturing is impacted then the following people will stop them:
1) China's Enemies
2) China's Neutral partners
3) China's Allies
Make no mistake, Trump's little trade war temper tantrum will look like two siblings arguing about who gets to play with the new toy first in comparison. China is absolutely not at all happy with the state of Taiwan, they haven't been happy for many years, but unlike some leaders in the world their country is run by people intelligent enough to know that th
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China is screwed on the international stage like Christians are repressed. Only in their own propaganda. Shhh... don't tell anyone but they are actually are a murderous and oppressive regime.
Long overdue (Score:5, Insightful)
Moves like this are long overdue and it's a shame that it took coronavirus induced shortages for people to realize that Trump's push for a return to domestic manufacturing wasn't some xenphobic appeal to nationalism but rather an obvious necessity for any nation's security and independence. Globalism is great for producing cheap shit and outsourcing your pollution but we've seen the flip side of that come back to bite us. Better late than never but this is long overdue.
Economics 101 is dead? (Score:3)
Hold on a second. There is the time-honored economic concept of "comparative advantage". A region specializes in something and thus does it better on average than trying to distribute it all over. Silicon Valley's advantage is that cutting-edge experts from all over the world can found in the same town, making it easy to put together a team for new projects. It's the same with physical chip
Re:Economics 101 is dead? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is the time-honored economic concept of "comparative advantage". A region specializes in something and thus does it better on average than trying to distribute it all over.
The theory assumed a fair market. An absence of artificial barriers between traders. We don't have such trade with China.
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Oddly enough, it didn't. Even if one side cheated, models generally showed a net benefit even for the non-cheaters. (I'll try to find a link.)
However, it should be pointed out the benefits and downsides may not be even, such as hurting specific careers or towns.
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BS. The only reason Trump is pushing it is because he thinks it will get him elected. He doesn't give a flying rat's ass about domestic production otherwise. I cannot think of a more ill-equipped administration to shepherd such a policy. He'll only screw it up like he does everything else. The R's will go along as long as their fat cats get properly greased.
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Intel already has foundries in the US. They are not used by their competitors like AMD and NVidia and Samsung for a variety of reasons. Currently one major reason is that TSMC is putting out 7nm products in large numbers while Intel is struggling with their processes. For any military or security sensitive chips, I understood that they must be made in the US and is supplied by US companies like TI and IBM.
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Moves like this are long overdue and it's a shame that it took coronavirus induced shortages for people to realize that Trump's push for a return to domestic manufacturing wasn't some xenphobic appeal to nationalism but rather an obvious necessity for any nation's security and independence. Globalism is great for producing cheap shit and outsourcing your pollution but we've seen the flip side of that come back to bite us. Better late than never but this is long overdue.
Of course it is. Trump is a xenophobic nationalist. That does not mean that all he ever does is wrong. A broken clock, twice a day, blabla.
Of course bringing back domestic production is good. It's good for independence purposes, it's good for the environment, etc. However, prepare yourself to lower your quality of living. Because all that you ever profited from for the past 40 years comes from undercovered slavery in Asia. If it wasn't for the kids sewing your shoes and the women screwing your appliance for
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Dupe (Score:3)
That should be no problem, Americans are very good at duplication [slashdot.org]!
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That should be no problem, Americans are very good at duplication [slashdot.org]!
"Trump and Chip Makers Including Intel Seek Semiconductor Self-Sufficiency"
"Slashdot seeks anti-Dupe techniques"
Bandwagon Conservatism (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember when most conservatives called such moves "protectionism", "gov't meddling", and "socialism". Now a good many switched opinions after all the pundits and talking heads push the GOP Agenda of the Moment, namely nationalism. China's cheated for decades*, but most conservatives didn't used to care. The rust belt was considered just another sacrificial lamb to the wheels of capitalism and change: "creative destruction". However, the issue played a large part in getting a GOP president elected, so now it's a GOP standard. Similar with deficits; it used to be important to them, but not since 2017.
I suppose partisans on both sides tend to rally behind the cause of the moment, such as wall/anti-wall flipping per Democrats, but at least admit your fellow partisans are doing it when caught.
* Their migrant workforce has very little practical rights and treated like second-class citizens.
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You-know-who has said many other things that point to racism, and few in the GOP seem to counter or care.
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Ya, now we have Donald "Let's Build The Great White Wall" Trump.
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Ya, now we have Donald "Let's Build The Great White Wall" Trump.
Hey, hey, that's not fair.
With Trump the wall would end up gold plated.
In theory a great idea. (Score:1)
In practice, after imports have been banned "because of reasons", it means no escape from the domestic spying and total information manipulation necessary to erect a fourth Reich.
And isn't that something that certain types would like to see...
Btw: The NSA do have their own large fab for obvious reasons. So aren't they already self-sufficient?
More than wafers (Score:3)
One of the problems with Taiwan is ... (Score:5, Interesting)
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that many of these Chinese ...still consider themselves to be Chinese, not Taiwanese.
Yeah, as long as by "many", you mean 3.6%. [wikipedia.org]