Boeing Cutting More Than 12,000 US Jobs With Thousands More Planned (reuters.com) 81
Boeing said Wednesday it was eliminating more than 12,000 U.S. jobs, including laying off 6,770 U.S. workers as the largest American planemaker restructures in the face of the coronavirus pandemic. From a report: Boeing also disclosed it plans "several thousand remaining layoffs" in the next few months but did not say where those would take place. The company announced in April it would cut 10% of its worldwide workforce of 160,000 by the end of 2020. Boeing said Wednesday it had approved 5,520 U.S. employees to take voluntary layoffs and they will leave Boeing in the coming weeks. Boeing also disclosed it is notifying 6,770 workers this week of involuntary layoffs. Boeing is moving to cut costs as it faces a drop in airplane demand from the coronavirus pandemic. Boeing Chief Executive Dave Calhoun told employees in an email that the "pandemic's devastating impact on the airline industry means a deep cut in the number of commercial jets and services our customers will need over the next few years, which in turn means fewer jobs on our lines and in our offices. ... I wish there were some other way."
Good. (Score:2)
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I wouldn't call what China does, "innovation"
"innovation" vs "invention" (Score:4, Interesting)
I wouldn't call what China does, "innovation"
The word "innovation" (as opposed to invention) is exactly what China does. The word was practically coined to describe that process. https://web.archive.org/web/20... [archive.org]
But there is another issue here, one that is hardly ever mentioned and that's the coining of the term "innovation." This word, which was hardly used at all until two or three years ago, feels to me like a propaganda campaign and a successful one at that, dominating discussion in the computer industry. I think Microsoft did this intentionally, for they are the ones who seem to continually use the word. But what does it mean? And how is it different from what we might have said before? I think the word they are replacing is "invention." Bill Shockley invented the transistor, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce invented the integrated circuit, Ted Hof invented the microprocessor. Of course others claimed to have done those same three things, but the goal was always invention. Only now we innovate, which is deliberately vague but seems to stop somewhere short of invention. Innovators have wiggle room. They can steal ideas, for example, and pawn them off as their own. That's the intersection of innovation and sharp business.
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Innovation is the modification of existing items, invention the creation of new. This has always been the common laymans definition, hence phrases like reinventing the wheel which is essentially impossible and a waste of time as you can only innovate new characteristics.
Almost everything is innovation and very little actually invention. It is what everybody does, not just China.
Re:Good. (Score:4)
Yea, I need my phone to display 8k resolution. I don't care that I can no longer tell the difference from my old phone with the newest ones that are years newer. I want my phone to handle 8k.
Private Sector goal isn't to make things to make our lives better, it is to make things that they will be able to sell.
Comparing the origional iPhone to the Current one. The only feature that actually has made my life better was using the Flash LED as a Flashlight.
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Do you have a tablet?
Do you prefer HDDs?
I'm also betting if you were diagnosed with cancer, you would strongly prefer technologies newer than 13 years old.
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Yea, I need my phone to display 8k resolution. I don't care that I can no longer tell the difference from my old phone with the newest ones that are years newer. I want my phone to handle 8k.
I hope your phone can display 8K resolution too. It's a sign that technology has developed to allow all manner of new high quality gadgetry including improved AR/VR as well as a future of HUD contact lenses.
The fact that *you* don't have a use for a specific piece of technology doesn't mean the private sector isn't making my life better. I thank you for your sacrifice.
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I can build you a custom 8kHz phone for, gosh, lets say 8k.
And instead of unlock, I'll set the fingerprint scanner to turn on the LED.
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Inevitable (Score:3)
It's amazing they lasted this long.
When your latest and greatest plane tends to deliberately nosedive into the dirt, production is halted, hundreds and hundreds of planes are grounded, no company can really survive long. The Pandemic could be the coup de grace.
If they have something in their hat, it's time to pull it out.
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I wouldn't call the 787 "profitable" yet - it still has $22Billion of "deferred production costs" to pay back before Boeing can start booking it as a profitable production line, and only then if Boeings prediction of sales north of 2,000 aircraft becomes true (no widebody has made that mark yet).
Boeing has a lot of problems right now - 737MAX, 777X just beginning test flights and major customers cancelling orders, 787 still with significant debt on the program etc etc etc.
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It's amazing they lasted this long.
When your latest and greatest plane tends to deliberately nosedive into the dirt, production is halted, hundreds and hundreds of planes are grounded, no company can really survive long. The Pandemic could be the coup de grace.
If they have something in their hat, it's time to pull it out.
They have literal shitloads of defense contracts. They won't be allowed to die.
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They have literal shitloads of defense contracts. They won't be allowed to die.
Exactly, they're not going anywhere. Boeing is huge, lots of fingers in lots of pies. Hell, their yearly budget for paper clips is probably more that the GNP of some countries.
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Actually the idea would be for Boeing's defense side to pick up some people. I used to work for Boeing on the defense side and that's how things typically worked as the business cycles were generally out of phase. Not much help for wrench turners who're probably the bulk of the layoffs. I got laid off about ten years ago when our facility closed. To be fair to Being they kept us afloat much longer than any business case would argue.
Double Whammy (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as I know regulators have not shut down air travel but I for one have no interest in going on any business trips as long as I can avoid it. It was bad enough before - more than bad enough. And now this.
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TO bad that Amtrak is very shity now if they can get high speed rail going then the airlines are in deep.
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Well in the North East, talk to Connecticut, when the Boston to DC High Speed line went active, they refused to allow the train to go more than 50 MPH (~80kph) through their state. So instead of the advertised 2 hour trip to NYC, it became 3 - 4 hours (which is ~4 hour trip by auto). I believe that is still in place.
From what I heard CT did not want to upgrade the tracks and/or they are upset that the only reason for its existence is to provide a means for people from Boston/NYC to travel to the other cit
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Re:Double Whammy (Score:4, Informative)
Triple whammy actually. China is planning to retaliate for Trump's little trade war by suspending purchases of Boeing aircraft. And the coronavirus is a large problem for Boeing because they are just finishing development of their new 777X, but airlines are rapidly moving to smaller aircraft with Delta completely retiring their 777 fleet by the end of the year.
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They can always buy Russian, that's their closest ally, I'm surprised they don't already buy lots of Russian-made goods.
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There actually is a Sino-Russian project for a widebody airliner [wikipedia.org], but it will take years to manifest. Until then China can simply buy from Airbus - they make better aircraft anyway.
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Unless the US government put a restriction on US parts being sold to China, like they have on Iran - then Airbus can't sell to China. But if that happens, expect the EU to tell the US to go fuck itself, and fully fund Airbus to completely remove American components from its aircraft.
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OK, now check how many times Airbus executives told the engineers to attempt that, and what the bean counters said when they heard about it! ;)
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Which is why I said the EU would fully fund Airbus to do it - its not necessarily difficult, none of the parts are things that couldnt be produced in the EU, they just use an existing supplier in the US at the moment. If the shit hits the fan, there is no reason Airbus couldnt drop US suppliers in their entirety - it would take investment, but its not impossible.
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I'll bet they can even make their own precision bearings! /s
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It will take years to manifest, and still nobody wants to buy it unless they only have Russian soft money. Not even China holds Russian soft money.
I agree, they should buy from Airbus. Airplanes are for the rich, not the unwashed masses, if they have to buy the most expensive airplanes the austerity of not having access will Enrichen the lives of the middle class.
But don't presume that creates an opening in the market for Russian airplanes. Train travel does take a little longer, but it isn't that bad.
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Being cheap is about the only thing that speaks for Boeing. But you get what you pay for.
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There aren't actually that many choices for airplanes of that size.
And the Russian ones are much cheaper than Boeing.
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Before they put the bean counters in charge they were a national treasure, too loved to fail, but they ain't shit now.
Sucking the Feds Teat (Score:5, Informative)
https://theintercept.com/2020/... [theintercept.com]
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Boeing - after "rejecting" $25B in direct federal ballout dollars grabbed $70B - billion dollars - of Federal Reserved backed - bond sales. The Fed handed out $7.5 TRILLION dollars in the past 2 months directly to giant corporations leaving citizens with nothing. This is why the stock market rallys when 30M US workers loose their jobs. Wait till the corporate pigs at the trough of your wallet can't make the bond payments.. This is going to get ungly.
https://theintercept.com/2020/... [theintercept.com]
So they rejected $25B in bailout dollars and instead sold bonds with and implicit federal guarantee that only kicks in if the company goes bankrupt and the assets sales don't cover the bonds? Sounds like a better deal for the taxpayers.
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Secondly, tell me where in true capitalism is the job of the tax payer to bail out businesses from their bad choices? Boeing for example was artifically inflating stock pr
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Since the Fed is backing questionable and dying companies (Like GE), many companies will just declare Bankruptsy and never make payments.
And the point will have been achieved. People retiring now will not have their life savings evaporate due to institutional investments of their retirement packages exploding in a fireball.
Not everything is about jobs and CEO bailouts.
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We have for profit prisons that ensure increasing recidivism - poor people can't work, but they're worth $50K+ / year in revenue to a for profit business. The US education tanks as B. DeVoss dynamites the educational system so f
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OK. First, is has anyone been stopping anyone from investing in the same stock the CEO has? Maybe they don't have as much, but they can almost always save money. It just people like new cell phones, streaming services and big TVs. Same people had the chance just a few months ago when the economy was rolling? And again, not just for rich people but they have to reach out and do something with it. If the rich person invests in something, maybe they should pay attention.
Profit Prisons? uhhhhh No. Alot
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teachers who know they can't be fired?
Completely agree with this. If by the time your kid graduates public high school, if you don't know at least 3 teachers that should be fired with prejudice, then you haven't been paying attention. Half the math teachers at the local public high school should have been fired (and one of the teachers should have had her pay doubled -- exceptionalism should be rewarded; teacher's union won't allow that, but there you go.).
Re: Sucking the Feds Teat (Score:1)
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for that matter I would be also cautious with financial advisors...
This is critically important. The odds are greatly against your financial advisor doing better than the S&P 500 or the S&P 100. Something like 92% of them fail to beat the S&P. Given the fees they are charging for under performing, you are vastly better off buying a low-load S&P mutual fund -- and use a discount broker.
At least the executive bonuses are safe. (Score:1)
it's a good thing they spent $11.7 billion on stock repurchases after that huge tax cut they received instead of building up cash reserves in case something happened.
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Hey, saving money isn't maximizing shareholder value. And there's always another bailout around the corner.
Tired of Winning yet? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trying to supercharge the economy when it already was in a good position. Is like Speeding when you tank is low thinking you will get to the Gas station faster.
The US had already built up a lot of debt due to the Tax Cuts, The constant fight to keep interest rates low, Little investing in infrastructure (The only promise I was hoping Trump would give us), defunding of watchdog and government regulation groups.... All to supercharge the already strong economy is why we are hear.
Covid-19 would probably still hit the US with Clinton as president, however companies probably wouldn't have so much excess employees to layoff, There would be more money for bailout payments, interest rates could be lowered to spur the economy again. And probably a working plan to combat Covid-19 could be in effect months earlier.
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Covid-19 would probably still hit the US with Clinton as president
Wow. Clinton... Had to walk a long way back there eh? No mention of Obama's "new normal"?
Nobody would even listen with a straight face if you tried to blame Obama, everybody knows what a pandemic under President No-Drama-Obama would be like; "Stay Calm, listen to the public health professionals who are heroically fighting for you, go to the White House website for the First Lady's DIY Mask Pattern, [a bunch of Presidential stuff]"
People forget, Bill Clinton would have given an address to the public about the families of the victims and the whole nation would have been crying and promising to we
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People forget, Bill Clinton ...
Wrong Clinton. If Hillary had won, the pandemic would still have hit.
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Interest rates have been effectively 0 since 2008. And the Fed sets interest rates, not the president.
The tax cuts were retarded. But Congress creates the laws and the budget, not the President. And every Congress since 2000 has doubled down on infinite debt.
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The tax cuts were retarded.
Repeat the lie often enough ...
Tax revenue [thebalance.com] did not go down with the tax cuts. The goal should be to minimize the tax rate while maximize tax revenue. Even if you maximize the tax revenue in the United States, the government is spending more than can be collected. 100% tax rate results in 0 tax revenue due to the elimination of economic activity.
But Congress creates the laws and the budget, not the President. And every Congress since 2000 has doubled down on infinite debt.
Too bad most people don't seem to realize this. The president gets the credit or the blame, but congress is the one who creates the situation. Clinton didn't b
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He was modded +5 Insightful but doesn't know the difference between "here" and "hear". And people wonder why there are trolls.
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Is like Speeding when you tank is low thinking you will get to the Gas station faster.
If you don't run out of gas, get pulled over, or crash, you really did get there faster.
The problem with the behavior is not that you don't get there faster. Keep looking. There might be something more going on.
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The US had already built up a lot of debt due to the Tax Cuts,
Repeat the lie often enough and people will believe it.
If you look at the tax revenue numbers [thebalance.com], the tax cuts spurred the economy enough to overcome the cost of the tax cuts. Tax revenue did not go down.
What people like jellomizer fail to realize is that tax changes change behavior. If the income tax rate was 100%, tax revenue would go to 0% due to no economic activity. Likewise, a tax rate of 0% would generate 0 income tax. Unless you are a totalitarian prick, the goal is to minimize the tax rate wh
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Trying to supercharge the economy when it already was in a good position.
The economy was not already in a good position. If you look at GDP growth rate [thebalance.com], the economy was anaemic at best when Obama left office.
Done shooting yourself in the foot yet? (Score:5, Informative)
Boeing cutting jobs in the face of the biggest manufacturing fuck up since the Ford Pinto. Airlines have been canceling orders for all types of Boeing aircraft, not just the 737 MAX, and the collapse of the travel market is just going to put another nail in the coffin. Sad to see what was formerly one of the crown jewels of the US manufacturing sector so badly mismanaged that they fall so far so fast.
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This would be an ideal moment... (Score:2)
... for Boeing to pivot back to being an engineering-driven company, away from their current financial and regulatory manipulation strategy.
You will be able to tell what they're doing by who they lay off. If it's mostly marketing and middle management, there's hope. If it's manufacturing and engineering, sell your stock now.
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Boeing cutting jobs in the face of the biggest manufacturing fuck up since the Ford Pinto. Airlines have been canceling orders for all types of Boeing aircraft, not just the 737 MAX, and the collapse of the travel market is just going to put another nail in the coffin. Sad to see what was formerly one of the crown jewels of the US manufacturing sector so badly mismanaged that they fall so far so fast.
Doesn't cutting costs under these circumstances make sense? How else would the company survive?
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The thing is, they wouldn't be in "these circumstances" if management hadn't been such a bunch of penny pinching fuckups more interested in their own short term quarterly bonuses than the long term health of the company.
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The thing is, they wouldn't be in "these circumstances" if management hadn't been such a bunch of penny pinching fuckups more interested in their own short term quarterly bonuses than the long term health of the company.
How they got here is one thing. How to move forward is another.
They need to stop the bleeding, fix their product line, and return to profitability.
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Actually, it took several years of rust before the Pinto's tank rusted enough to be a hazard. And then it still had to be smacked smartly in the butt before anything bad happened.
A nearly new 737Max power-diving itself into the ground is much worse than a Pinto.
Boeing story (Score:3)
Alternative Reason (Score:1)
Or maybe it's because their planes fall out of the sky.
Just the beginning (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just Boeing is involved here. All companies are going to use the virus situation to cut everyone they can get away with. It's a golden opportunity for the spreadsheet-wielding MBAs...they can get rid of thousands and just say "Sorry, COVID killed our business!"
From a news-for-nerds standpoint, I fully expect the Indian outsourcing firms to step up their sales forces and sign some deals. That's going to be a big issue -- during the 2010s we had a relative break from this as companies started trying to act like Google and Facebook and do more of their own IT work.
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From a news-for-nerds standpoint, I fully expect the Indian outsourcing firms to step up their sales forces and sign some deals.
I'm not sure that makes a whole lot of sense, considering the supply-to-demand ratio for domestic labor is rapidly going to become a lot more favorable to Wall Street.
SpaceX (Score:2)
Non-management, non-MBA Boeing employees, please apply to SpaceX and get me off this jerk-infested rock ASAP.
Other opportunities (Score:2)
They really should build electric Taxi-Planes for the super-rich.
The start of a wave of dishonesty... (Score:4, Insightful)
We're all about to witness a wave of incompetent CEOs using COVID-19 and the shutdowns (reminder: there is not one singular national shutdown in the US, each governor has shutdown his/her state to some degree independent of national policy) to shift blame for the results of incompetent corporate leadership.
Sears, Pennys, and many other retailers were in very serious trouble long before January 2020, but watch for their execs to blame the disease...
Boeing replaced [expensive] experienced domestic engineering talent with [cheap] inexperienced imported engineers and completely lost their corporate safety culture and experience - resulting in two 737 Max crashes. This added to problems in the USAF 767 air tanker contract, problems in the development and roll-out of the 787, massive schedule slips and cost overruns in the SLS rocket, a pile of total screwups on the maiden flight of the Boeing Starliner space capsule - all of which severely damaged the reputation of Boeing long before COVID-19. Add to this the idea that the MAX design was grounded and yet they kept building them to keep their unions happy with new but un-sellable and un-flyable planes filling up available parking spots, and the people in the executive suites of that company should have all been dismissed long ago. The current decimation of air travel is indeed a massive problem, but it's not the real problem.
Any executive who manages a company with supply chain issues now has failed to have a properly diversified and resilient supply chain. Any executive who runs a company currently suffering from reduced sales needs to be questioned about what plans they had in place before COVID for alternate ways of serving products and services to customers - this is exposing a huge lack of imagination and severe complacency in the executive suites. Certainly the execs who bought into "just-in-time" and "outsourcing" seem to have never asked any "what if" questions and planned accordingly (I'm looking at you, toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and N95 mask producers and vendors...)
All across America, third-rate incompetent executives are working to find ways to blame their poor performance on COVID as they plan their next jobs where they will claim to be great executives who's previous gigs failed for reasons entirely beyond their control..... and no smart investors or boards of directors should by fooled by any of it.
Calhoun should fire himself and ALL top execs (Score:3)
If Calhoun REALLY wanted to save Boeing, he would fire himself and all those with him.
Boeing WAS great when engineers ran the company, but now, MBAs overrun engineers and call the shots like GE, HP, IBM, and GM do.
anyone from high management? (Score:2)