EU May Ban Travel From US As It Reopens Borders, Citing Coronavirus Failures (seattletimes.com) 231
European Union countries rushing to revive their economies and reopen their borders after months of coronavirus restrictions are prepared to block Americans from entering because the United States has failed to control the scourge, according to draft lists of acceptable travelers seen by The New York Times. From a report: That prospect, which would lump American visitors in with Russians and Brazilians as unwelcome, is a stinging blow to American prestige in the world and a repudiation of President Donald Trump's handling of the virus in the United States, which has more than 2.3 million cases and upward of 120,000 deaths, more than any other country. European nations are currently haggling over two potential lists of acceptable visitors based on how countries are faring with the coronavirus pandemic. Both include China, as well as developing nations like Uganda, Cuba and Vietnam.
Travelers from the United States and the rest of the world have been excluded from visiting the European Union -- with few exceptions mostly for repatriations or "essential travel" -- since mid-March. But a final decision on reopening the borders is expected early next week, before the bloc reopens July 1. [...] Prohibiting American travelers from entering the European Union would have significant economic, cultural and geopolitical ramifications. Millions of American tourists visit Europe every summer. Business travel is common, given the huge economic ties between the United States and the EU.
Travelers from the United States and the rest of the world have been excluded from visiting the European Union -- with few exceptions mostly for repatriations or "essential travel" -- since mid-March. But a final decision on reopening the borders is expected early next week, before the bloc reopens July 1. [...] Prohibiting American travelers from entering the European Union would have significant economic, cultural and geopolitical ramifications. Millions of American tourists visit Europe every summer. Business travel is common, given the huge economic ties between the United States and the EU.
Not just them (Score:4, Insightful)
The EU also should ban travel from the UK for the very same reason.
Re:Not just them (Score:5, Informative)
The UK has a doubling period of 174 days, meaning positive cases will take that time to double. Most EU countries are above 200 days, which is even better.
In the USA the doubling period is 54 days.
Re:Not just them (Score:5, Informative)
Current rates of new infections (7-day averages):
Given that, it would be totally irresponsible for the EU to allow travel from the US. The US's ongoing rate is comparable to the PEAK France had back at the end of March. All this data is available and cited on wikipedia. Additionally, France and Germany's rates have been stable for well over a month even with short-term contained outbreaks. The US's rate show all signs that it will significantly increase in the coming weeks.
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And for all that, France had a higher per capita death rate than the USA.
As did the UK.
Italy.
Belgium.
etc, etc, etc....
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The US's rate show all signs that it will significantly increase in the coming weeks.
Ahh, but you are incorrect. The US president in his unfathomable wisdom has solved this problem with his suggestion to "slow the testing down". Soon, the US growth rate in new cases will be zero. Now, if he can just get the US people to listen to his great ideas.
Re:Not just them (Score:4, Informative)
Either the health care system in Belgium, France, Italy, the UK, etc. sucks and they're letting 3-4x as many patients die as the U.S, Germany, Denmark, and Portugul. Or there's a different, more deadly strain of COVID-19 in those parts of the EU. Or (most likely IMHO) these countries are systematically undercounting the number of cases. If you assume the last and normalize the case numbers for a 5% death rate, then the U.S. rate of new infections is nowhere near the peak France experienced. And if you go by a 1% fatality rate (which is near the top currently estimated by the WHO and CDC), then there are a helluva lot more unreported/undetected cases out there.
Anyhow, the U.S. is a big country - roughly 2x as big as the EU. Most of the COVID-19 cases in the U.S. have been concentrated in the northeast. Most of the states which are re-opening (or never closed) [wired.com] have had substantially fewer virus cases and deaths [worldometers.info] than the rest of the U.S. and the EU. They are re-opening because they feel they have a handle on the situation. The only ones I see on the list which seem sketchy for re-opening are Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, and Mississippi.
Now, given that there's free travel between the U.S. states, I can understand the EU implementing a blanket ban on travel from the U.S. There's simply no way to be sure if someone coming from the U.S. is from an area that's substantially safer than the EU, or more dangerous. But don't try to characterize it as the U.S. handling of the virus being incompetent relative to the EU. Most of U.S. states are handling it better than the EU. It's just the handful which are not which skew the national stats.
Re:Not just them (Score:4, Interesting)
Part of the varying death rates may well depend on how well different countries protected their most vulnerable. Here in Canada, most of the deaths have been in Quebec, and to a lesser extend Ontario. They both cheaped out on their extended care homes, especially Quebec, who paid their workers so little and gave them so few hours that they had to work at multiple old age homes. Get sick at one, got to another and spread it. Not to mention that when things got bad, the workers ran. We had to bring in the army to care for the old in Quebec and what they found was horrible. .Here in BC, we look over the border at Washington State and it scares the shit out of us, meanwhile you didn't even mention them
Most of the other Provinces have done pretty well and if you ignored Quebec, our numbers would be a lot better.
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5% death rate is way over the top. Most of the studies to date suggest around 1% or just under. Obviously this is increased where health systems are overwhelmed, poor to start with, inequitable etc.
So I agree, the rates vs confirmed infection in most are meaningless because testing is inadequate. The US is doing a better job in testing than many countries (but not all).
Of course if you are somewhere where the rate of infection (not just the number of infections) is increasing, as is the case in several US
Underreported cases? (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that many EU countries have more deaths per cases is makes you assume that it is the result from underreported cases. I find that no a logical conclusion.
If that were the case, testing in the EU should be much lower than in the US, which is not the case [ourworldindata.org].
I would rather assume that the number of deaths in the US is underreported. I know for a fact that Belgium has received critique intenationally because it reports essentially any excess mortality as being linked to Corona. The reasoning is that there could be no other reason than the current crisis. In this way you evaluate not only the virus itself but also the effect of all the measures taken to stop the virus.
You site total number claiming that the USA has everything under control.
Below are current new cases per million, which show that for the EU countries things are well under control (under 10.000 new cases per million) the amount of new cases US is more than 10 times as much and is still rising...
Belgium 6,385
France 9,8200
Germany 8,200
Italy 4,366
Netherlands 4,435
Spain 7,144
Sweden 0
United Kingdom 19,076
Canada 10,333
United States 103,196
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Belgium is actually overcounting - if someone has as much as coughed before their death, it is counted as a coronavirus death, without even testing.
Re:Not just them (Score:4, Informative)
I don't really trust the British numbers considering they have only 42000 confirmed deaths but way over 60000 excess deaths.
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I don't really trust the British numbers considering they have only 42000 confirmed deaths but way over 60000 excess deaths.
There was already proof that the UK is undercounting care homes. Generally it's clear that the UK was only counting confirmed deaths and the truth was much worse than people said [theguardian.com]. It's really suspicious that the number of cases has been systematically falling but the number of deaths has not. The deaths is normally the true sign of what's happening with the infection (but with a three week delay). Having said all that, I think, though, the reason is that currently most infections in the UK are in care h
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The doubling time (of cumulative case) is useful in the early stage of the pandemic, when the cases are growing exponentially, with a fixed doubling time. It's irrelevant in the present phase of the pandemic, where countries have gone through lockdowns and reopenings. Two countries with the same number of new cases per day today, but a different number of closed cases from the months before will have the different apparent doubling times (slopes of cumulative cases on a log scale) while they are just as dan
Re: Not just them (Score:2)
Where did that number come from? hint the official death rate is 5%.
That is confirmed cases vs deaths.
Now unconfirmed cases are expected to be 2-4 times higher which drops the 5% to 1% but that is way highers than your .4% and means to he usa has 10 times more cases than known about. Which means our testing and medical systems are failing massively.
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Here in Germany we have an R of 2.76 now according to today's data with the new cases from Guetersloh, Warendorf, and Goettingen.
So that would not be a very good reason to ban travel from the UK.
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Travelers coming in do not affect the R0. They affect the active case numbers.
Re:Not just them (Score:4, Informative)
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US persons should not be traveling out of the country or even traveling for the next moth or so. We need to wear masks and stay in quarantine. Any state with a sustained death rate of more than 1 person per day per million, like Arizona o
America first. Yeah ! (Score:2)
America first in Covid !
Can't Blame 'Em (Score:2)
Flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
That prospect, which would lump American visitors in with Russians and Brazilians as unwelcome, is a stinging blow to American prestige in the world and a repudiation of President Donald Trump's handling of the virus in the United States
For pity's sake. You may want to look at the case numbers and death rate and consider if anything could be done better going forwards or next time. You might even want to take any of this as a basis to judge the performance of your leaders in whatever way you consider appropriate, but controls on movements of people into a region to limit spread of a contagion are NOT a comment on your prestige in the world. This childish crap is really unhelpful.
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Belgium 84.89
United Kingdom 64.27
Spain 60.62
Italy 57.35
Sweden 50.30
France 44.29
US 36.80
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but controls on movements of people into a region to limit spread of a contagion are NOT a comment on your prestige in the world. This childish crap is really unhelpful.
It's not directly, and the comment is not intended to imply it is directly. American holds itself high as the authority on health around the world. They claim to have the best healthcare, the best doctors, the best system, the best policies, yadda yadda yadda. That is prestige. Controlling movement of people to limit spread of a virus that this prestigious country couldn't get under control and lumping them in the likes of countries with historically garbage health systems is very much a comment on America'
Dont trust the average american (Score:5, Informative)
They'll break your rules and not give a fuck about the country they are in. https://globalnews.ca/news/706... [globalnews.ca]
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada... [www.cbc.ca]
Re:Dont trust the average american (Score:5, Funny)
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Moderated 70% Informative, 30% Troll. The system works!
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Canada should close its border to this kind of thing. If Americans want to go from the contiguous 48 states to Alaska, they can fly or go by ship.
I'm an American (Score:5, Insightful)
Europe shouldn't let us in until Trump is safely out of the office. This is just too crazy. I know we don't like partisanship around here, but Trump is no longer a partisan issue. He doesn't just have disdain for science, he is in open conflict with it, and we will suffer for it. Europe, if they're smart, will not take part in that suffering.
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... and they should. We are fucking up royally.
I was agreeing with you until:
Europe shouldn't let us in until Trump is safely out of the office.
That's where you went from being a rational human being, with perhaps an understanding of science, to a partisan fool. Trump may be bad news for lots of other reasons, but can we please not conflate the issues? Borders should remain closed as long as there is a health risk, not a political disagreement.
Trump literally said he ordered his staff (Score:5, Insightful)
How far does Trump have to go? What would he have to do for you to recognize him as a threat to your safety? He is ignoring literally all known science on managing pandemics, likely to pry the economy open again in a desperate bid to win re-election (since sitting presidents lose in a bad economy).
It's not a partisan issue anymore. Trump has gone too far. This is insane. I don't know what else to call it. You do not call for less testing in a pandemic. You do not joke about something that's on track to kill 250,000 people by November. That just, it's insane.
Trump was right about one thing. He's shooting over 1,000 people a day on Main Street and nobody seems to care. Europe would be wise not to follow the US down this path.
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It's not a partisan issue anymore. Trump has gone too far. This is insane.
What would he have to do for you to recognize him as a threat to your safety?
I didn't say border closures are a partisan issue. You bringing Trump in general into a discussion about science/health makes it a partisan issue. Can you not see that? You need to stop bringing your hatred of that man into every conversation. It doesn't help your cause.
Yes, Trump is an idiot. That doesn't mean that Europe should close its borders to American citizens until someone else is elected. That's ridiculous.
Please let the science dictate how nations should act, not your own political motivations.
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Maybe the wall is actually a good idea. Not to keep people out but to keep us in. I'd take one for the team if the world benefits.
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I wasn't disguising anything (Score:2)
Like I told the other guy on this thread, there are no words I can use to describe how far too far Trump has gone. You do not joke about something killing over 1000 Americans each and every day. And Trump himself said he wasn't joking ("I don't Kid"). Trump is actively trying to stop doctors, epidemiologists and scientists from containing the pandemic because he believes this will impact his re-election chances n
Truth hurts (Score:2)
There is no controlling it in the sense of stopping it. You can only slow it so hospitals are not overwhelmed, while keeping fragile people as safe as possible.
It will not stop until it fully spreads
If a vaccine comes before then, I will be surprised. But by that point, I submit the slowed economy, slowing medical and other progress, will ultimately have cost more lives, as being behind where you should be is forever.
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Why do you say that.
Go to https://www.covidbyregion.com/ [covidbyregion.com]
Look at 7 day rolling averages of new cases for:
US, then Italy, Spain, China, Ireland, switzerland,.
Lots of countries have brought their new case rates way down. Now they can test/ track. Keep the death rate very low until there is a vaccine.
Many people seem to think we can't beat it, despite clear evidence from other countries that we can.
Re: Truth hurts (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, you don't trust China, Spain or Italy. how about Switzerland, Ireland, Austria, Denmark, South Korea, Norway, New Zealand They all have brought their new case rate way below the peak.
Lots of people in the US know lots of people in China, there is no way they are hiding millions of cases. (but ignore them if you want, how about the other countries)
Its not magic. Its a disease that spreads person to person. So if you reduce its spread, it dies away expontially rather than growing. Its what we do every time there is an Ebola outbreak.
No Americans, No Dollars (Score:2)
There are plenty of nice places in the world where Americans can travel and spend their money. The EU never seems to miss an opportunity to stick its thumb in America's eye and this latest thing will hurt them more than it will hurt the Americans. Perhaps the tourists from Syria will take of the slack in Paris. There will be plenty of rooms available at the George Cinq.
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A reasonable ban would prevent Europeans from traveling to the US and spending their travel money here.
Also, the rest of the world may follow Europe's lead. As long as we have one of the highest infection rates, few people will want to travel here, or accept travelers from here.
So, is the EU banning China? (Score:2)
Given the new outbreaks it would seem advisable.
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China's seeing around 50 new cases on a bad day, and they implement localized lock-downs when that happens. In the US we've been above 30,000 for three of the last four days... IOW I don't think EU is going to be too worried about China.
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Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Insightful)
The Federal Government can provide leadership and coordination among other things, but not now with this government. It's every person for themselves.
Not True (Score:2)
More importantly, Democratic governors are by and large doing the right thing. As for the Republican governors, do you really think they would cross Trump? Trump has over a 90% approval rating with the GOP. He can destroy any Republican politician at the drop of a hat.
Lead, follow or get out of the way. Trump is doing none of those.
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In the US, the captain of each State is the Governor; in fact, the Federal Government can do very little without approval of the Governor.
Before you blame the governors for not putting out the fire it's best to hide the can of gasoline you're carrying. Either that or you can admit Trump is completely irrelevant and no one in the world listens to him as he insights hatred and racism among a divided country.
But I'm sure you of all people can find a way to say Trump is in fact relevant and that something something something it's all China's fault.
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Read your Constitution, there's this thing called the Interstate Commerce Clause that gives your Federal Government all kinds of powers in a pandemic.
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The Captain of the Ship of America are the Voters.
I don't see them taking any responsibility, so why should their leader?
Voting on what? (Score:2)
The Captain of the Ship of America are the Voters.
Since when is the US a direct democracy ?
Learn what initiatives and referendums are, and then come back speaking about "voters" having any significant role in your country.
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USA is not a democracy of any kind moron.
But as a Republic the voters are still to blame for the trash that gets into office. As usual, refusal to accept fault is the problem. We raise and produce trash... and that trash runs for office, and then the trash elects the trash! And then trash like you bitches about the trash you helped get into office.
Looks like trash is about all we are going to get from you and this government... as proven by how coronavirus has been handled by everyone!
Re: Voting on what? (Score:2)
Since the vast majority of health measures are implemented by State governors, not POTUS. Amusingly, the states which instituted the strictest lockdowns and which are by far the worst off regarding death rates are all Dem strongholds.
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Don't worry. The survivors will continue to vote for Democrats.
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Looks like it went over your head, moron!
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Nice revisionist history there.
More than just Trump is as fault here, but go ahead do what you need to sleep at night.
China Lied, WHO/UN failed, CDC Failed, and even if Trump had gotten serious it would have been too late anyways. No one... not the CDC, Trump, Republicans, OR Democrats took this seriously in time to change the course.
Keep in mind... it is a World Pandemic and Trump only runs the USA. So go ahead... keep it up, you are only showing that you are shallow enough to let petty politics, ONCE AG
Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to contend that it's not Trump's problem, then how was is supposed to have been handled? The US has the worst outcomes of the entire modern world, and that's the WHO's fault? The UN's fault? China's fault? Why is every other modern country in far better shape health-wise and economically than the US? What, is the whole entire world "out to get the US"? Jesus Christ, you Trump culters don't even have a plausible story. You just throw shit at the wall, hoping something will stick.
Fact: This was Trump's responsibility.
Fact: He failed miserably.
Fact: He is continuing to fail. We are continuing to die. We are continuing to go broke.
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Look, lets start with the obvious. Yes Trump has responsibility, I did not say that he did not. The problem is that the USA has a fucking congress that "technically" has more fucking power than the bitch ass President... except in times of war.
What did fucking congress do? Nothing... they didn't do shit and sat by and let you hold them blameless yet again. The CDC was kneecapped by the Executive branch... what did congress do about that? Nothing there either.
"He is continuing to fail. We are continuing
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Look, lets start with the obvious. Yes Trump has responsibility, I did not say that he did not. The problem is that the USA has a fucking congress that "technically" has more fucking power than the bitch ass President... except in times of war.
Dealing with an epidemic is the job of the executive branch, not the legislative one. Now if the executive branch had said the law needed to be modified to deal with the epidemic and the legislative branch had blocked these modifications then congress could be blamed. But as far as I know this has not happened.
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He does not care, he has fallen victim to Politics in its entirety. He has blinders on and they have been programed to only look at Trump while the media whispers bullshit into his ear.
He does not know that a bunch of other Nations, including the ones that do things the opposite of people like Trump ALSO have covid-19 and a pandemic in their borders... but those are probably Trumps fault too if you could read his mind.
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but he did mitigate it
bbbdffffttttahahahahahahahahha. Greetings from a non America. I love waking up in the morning to my daily dose of Trump comedy. You guys are truly amazing. 10/10 would read again.
I honestly do wonder how out of the entire human race so many of the true morons ended up in the USA.
Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Informative)
None of your facts are true.
Fact: It wasn't Trump's responsibility, but he did mitigate it while left wing pundits and leaders were screeching that it was racist to close the border.
Fact: Each state is responsible for their own affairs, the feds can only step in when there has been a direct request of such.
Fact: If failure is measured on "mass protests okay, small businesses with controls bad." Then yes, you fucking failed. Everyone dies, and you were already broke. Be happy that your GDP:Debt ratio isn't as bad as Canada or China's.
Wow Dwigt. You haven't been getting enough of your beats, your bears, or your battlestar galactica. You do know that the CDC is supposed to provide guidance to the state and federal governments, right? You know that the CDC falls under the executive branch, right? So that right there makes the pandemic, which involves interstate commerce (and is therefore a federal issue) under the authority of the executive branch, right? At least to some degree. And who stopped the CDC from issuing guidance? Trump. They wanted to implement social distancing, mask requirements, etc, and push those recommendations down to the state health departments. Who blocked all of that? Who prevented the CDC From issuing guidance to businesses and churches because he didn't think his base would like being told that maybe it was best to hold church online? Trump. There is plenty of blame to go around but he definitely played a HUGE role.
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Funny thing - when it's a success, it's his responsibility. When it's a failure, then it was someone else.
Like when they found that ex-Army guy, deep in debt, to land a motorboat in Venezuela to "capture Maduro" who just happened to be charged with Very Bad Drug Trafficking Crimes by the Justice Department a few weeks before.
I wonder what that guy thinks of his employer now, as he sits in a Venezuelan prison.
Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice revisionist history there.
More than just Trump is as fault here, but go ahead do what you need to sleep at night.
China Lied, WHO/UN failed, CDC Failed, and even if Trump had gotten serious it would have been too late anyways. No one... not the CDC, Trump, Republicans, OR Democrats took this seriously in time to change the course.
Keep in mind... it is a World Pandemic and Trump only runs the USA. So go ahead... keep it up, you are only showing that you are shallow enough to let petty politics, ONCE AGAIN, color your opinions on who is really responsible for the shit that goes down.
Get it through your head... the government and it's actions are not just a single fucking person. The world did not stop going after the Nazi when Hitler was dead. Hitler is just a figure piece, if someone else got into power the same would likely have resulted. Hitler just happened to be one of many people in a position to step off the deep end and his own Nation did not bring his fucking ass to heel. All the blind followers, like you for example, are the type of people that allowed such an evil to manifest and become anchored sufficiently to become a problem!
Are you somehow connected to the CDC? I am. And I can tell you right now that the obstacle for the CDC has been Trump since January. I have many friends working there who have participated on these conference calls with Fauci as well as health officials from other countries and it is 100% the executive who is the obstacle here. It is true that the CDC was not prepared for this (and for a variety of reasons) but they tried to start taking action and were blocked. Tried to provide sane recommendations at the federal and state levels and were blocked. The CDC deserves criticism here but they are run and organized by Trump and can only do so much without him.
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Seems fair, Trump claims credit whenever something goes right in the country and then trots out a wide variety of scapegoats when something goes bad.
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Every politician does that. Try to say something informative next time.
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Which included helping obtain resources (that in many cases went unused), banning travel, testing, stimulus, and more.
Resources like hydroxychloroquine? They have done some work on obtaining resources, yes, but by most accounts it's been an uncoordinated, often counter-productive mess. The messaging from the federal government has been terrible as well, such as when Jared Kushner said:
“The notion of the federal stockpile is that it’s supposed to be our stockpile. It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use.”
Then no real clarification was forthcoming and the HHS website quickly changed its definition of what the national stockpile actually is in a sad attempt to make Trump's son in law retroactively correct. So, yes, they have done work on it. Th
Agreed (Score:2, Interesting)
If the EU is mad at the US about about anything is that Trump is pulling away from the Globalist agenda and revisiting deals that are not equitable.
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Ah, the U.S. was at the top of the heap until the Republicans decided they didn't like free trade. Now, the U.S. has precious few friends due to the Twitter-in-Chief who thinks NATO is a protection racket.
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The US is a trade empire. Restricting trade is an... interesting idea.
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What word would you prefer for "race to the bottom" or "trade practices that only benefit multinational corporations"? "Globalism" is nice and short. Do you have an alternative proposal?
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The UN is a "globalist" agenda. Many people actively promote that the UN should gain more and more power over the governments of the earth.
If that does not fit into the idea of a "globalist" agenda... please tell us what does?
Globalism by definition is...
"the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis."
And as a matter of fact... that is exactly what many world leaders ACTIVELY say they are doing.
So tell me... who is the nutter here? Are you sure it is not you? Because you seem
Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Interesting)
It's Trump's fault that cities permitted mass protests and it's Trumps fault that governors created nursing home covid death camps.
Yet he wants 19 thousand cheering, screaming, adoring fans to pack into a closed arena and fawn over him, all the while signing liability waivers against infection. That's totally on him and his adoring crew of enablers.
Add to that the fans exercising their God-given right to make stupid decisions regarding their personal well-being and that of their friends and family. Just lovely,
Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Informative)
Have you ever heard the phrase, 'The Buck Stops Here'? Truman had it on his desk. It was a symbol that ultimately, he was the guy that had to make the hard decisions and be responsible for them. Good or bad, whether you agreed with him or not, he was taking responsibility for the things that happened in the country while he was President, because he felt that was his job.
If Trump didn't want to be responsible—ultimately—for the health and well being of an entire nation, he shouldn't have become President. He could be somewhere golfing right now with nobody scrutinizing his actions. But he's the President, and the buck stops with him, like it or not. He provided no leadership. He's actively encouraging risky behaviour (indoor rallies), promulgating incomplete medical information (hydroxychloroquine), failing to be a role model (not wearing a mask), etc. He's either not very smart (maybe UV light or bleach inside the body?) or not very serious (it was a sarcastic joke), and neither of those is a good look for a leader like that.
There are many other people that bear responsibility; governors are among them. But if he'd done a better job, their jobs would be easier. Most probably, outcomes would have been better. If he had only insisted everyone wear a mask, and worn one himself, I think this whole thing would almost be over right now. He could have walked away from this like a hero, and I honestly wouldn't have a good rejoinder for that. But he didn't, surprising nobody, and here we are.
So yeah, Orange Man's fault. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to run for reelection.
If it makes you feel better (Score:2)
Trump on leadership (Score:2)
Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.
Trump, 2013 [twitter.com]
'I don't take responsibility at all'
Trump, 2020 [theguardian.com]
Re: Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:2)
Trump encouraged people to protest the government shutdowns. Now people are protesting against Trump it is a different story.
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Hmm... if I'm not mistaken, the people in the retirement homes are pretty much the ones that fought in Vietnam.
The cynic in me would say that they've been fucked twice by their country now.
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At the rate we're going over 250,000 will be dead by November. Trump just said that he instructed his staff to slow testing and that he doesn't Kid about it. His staff is backtracking it... weakly.
"Weakly" [axios.com]
"I and my colleagues, to my knowledge, I know that none of us have ever been told to slow down on testing. That is just a fact. In fact, we will be doing more testing as you have heard from the admiral. We will specifically identify people to isolate and contact trace, but more surveillance if you want to get your arms around and understand exactly what is going on in community spread. We are going to be doing more testing, not less."
-- NIAID director Anthony Fauci
Trump hasn't talked to Fauci in 3 weeks (Score:2)
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when the Dems were calling him a racist
Oh yeah that thing that didn't happen. Now if you instead said that the Dems were calling the policy that blocked only Chinese people from entering the country from China and didn't so much as quarantine people with visas or citizens racist then yeah we'd agree with you.
But then that's not the narrative you're pushing is it.
Man, you've really got to stop believing the news. It's all deception.
Clearly it's worth not believing anything lgw says either.
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Re:Always Orange Man's Fault (Score:5, Interesting)
I think he could have done slightly more than claiming it's not a big deal
You mean like banning travel from China in January, when the Dems were calling him a racist for the CV-19 non-issue? You mean like activating the US pandemic response system and putting the CDC in emergency mode in January when the Dems were only focused on impeachment? You mean like any of the dozens of major steps he took in February, when the press was reporting that he was doing nothing?
Man, you've really got to stop believing the news. It's all deception.
He did NOT ban travel from China. He banned Chinese travel from China. Residents of the EU, the US, etc, were all able to enter the US directly from China without any real restriction. So yes, it was racist. If he had implemented a quarantine then it would not have been racist.
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He didn't ban travel from China - thousands of Americans returned from China to the US with absolutely no restrictions, quarantines or checks.
He banned travel by Chinese nationals from China, I guess on the theory that the virus would be able to tell the difference and kindly not infect Americans.
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And the looters wore masks as recommended by the CDC.
Re:Ban Sweden too (Score:5, Informative)
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Over the past week the Sweden reported 73 cases per 100K population, and the US posed around 62 new cases per 100K. So on a per capita basis, Sweden is significantly worse off than the US, but 15% might not qualify as "far worse" for many people.
The other thing to look at are trends; new case rates show a weak reduction over the past couple of weeks in Sweden, whereas they're showing slight growth in the US. However the hospitalization rate and positive test rates are dropping slightly in the US, so there i
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ya, vitamin levels were surely never considered by scientists....who have degrees in medicine...what have you got?
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The vitamin thing gets all kinds of people. Even famous quantum chemists. It's at least a slightly better kind of woo than the herbal remedy types.
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We don't really care too much about the annoying orange, to be honest. We think he's funny, but it's one of those comedians that you prefer to see on TV rather than going to a live performance because you might end up in the splash zone when he smashes the melon or become the butt of one of his jokes.
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If Trump were the bigger man, he could make a point of letting in EU tourists, who present about the same medical risk as US tourists, thereby benefitting US businesses. But knowing Trump, I suppose he will just vindictively keep them out until January, when Brussels will make a show of hailing Biden by letting Americans back in.
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Well, one does not mean you can't do the other as well, I kinda like that idea.
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Sure, because the current rate of spread is not nearly as important as what happened over the last few months.
Re:LOL - What a shithole! (Score:5, Informative)
You voted to leave but as you call our leader a retarded child you have YET to offically leave the EU
The UK officially left the EU on 31 January 2020.
I once wanted would lived to visit EU but with all the terrorism issues yea not anymore.
Too bad for you. I have visited the EU plenty of times, and it is awesome. That doesn't mean the US isn't also great, we are. They can both be great, it's ok to admit that. We also both have our big problems, that's ok to admit as well.
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You voted to leave but as you call our leader a retarded child you have YET to offically leave the EU
The UK officially left the EU on 31 January 2020.
I once wanted would lived to visit EU but with all the terrorism issues yea not anymore.
Too bad for you. I have visited the EU plenty of times, and it is awesome. That doesn't mean the US isn't also great, we are. They can both be great, it's ok to admit that. We also both have our big problems, that's ok to admit as well.
This is the most mature and realistic post I've seen in slashdot in a long time. Kudos to you sir.
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Nobody is going to put you on a ventilator just because you're having a hard time breathing. There are many, many things they would evaluate first.
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Fair..
But they have stopped doing most of those things in the last 25 years, and the US did a lot of them too.