China Will Sanction Lockheed Martin Over Arms Sales To Taiwan (cnn.com) 60
China said on Tuesday it would place sanctions on Lockheed Martin for its involvement in arms sales to Taiwan, a move that could further escalate tensions between Beijing and Washington. hackingbear writes: "China firmly opposes US arms sales to Taiwan," Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a press conference. Taiwan is a self-ruled island, but China has long vowed to unify it with the mainland. The United States is one of Taiwan's main arms suppliers. The US State Department last week approved a request by Taiwan to upgrade its Patriot Surface-to-Air missiles at an estimated cost of $620 million, according to Taiwan's state-run Central News Agency. In response, China is imposing "sanctions on the main contractor of this arms sale, Lockheed Martin," Zhao said, without going into detail. The United States should "stop selling arms to Taiwan and cut its military ties to Taiwan, so it won't do further harm to bilateral relations between China and the United States," he added.
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The Kuomintang got the boot in 1949, and the last time the Mongols invaded, China didn't have nukes.
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Retaliation for the US attacks on Huawei.
We've always... (Score:1)
...been at war with EastHuawei.
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This is pretty much the Official Chinese stance on so many things happening in the region. They say this in exactly the same way as you expect a brainwashed individual in a dystopian novel to say them. Ie, The South China Seas have always belonged to China. Taiwan is currently a part of China. Tibet has always belonged to China. The disputed land on the border with India has always belonged to China. The Uighurs just need vocational training.
Or an exact quote (after translation): We urge the US to cor
Re: Wow (Score:2)
And apparently to China too. WTF.
But I guess, profit always goes above human lives and rights. Which rule of acquisition was that again?
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Which rule of acquisition was that again?
The first one.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it is just that with the American economy on the ropes, the rump government of China decided now was the time to press for screwing Taiwan just a little bit more.
How's the ethnic cleaning of the Uighurs going, China? Have you stopped all the indigenous births yet or are you still trying out new methods for birth control? And while we're on the subject of ethnic cleansing, how that working in Tibet? Have you managed to make it majority Han yet or must you try harder. Let's not forget Hong Kong, the last thing the CCP can tolerate is free Chinese thinking for themselves. And just think, there's that nice juicy Taiwan with 23+ Million Chinese and natives just waiting for your ravenous Party bureaucracy to screw up.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Taiwan should be armed to the hilt.
For every ship China can float, Taiwan should have 10 antiship missiles.
For every plane China can send over, Taiwan should have 50 Anti-Aircraft missiles.
Taiwan should have patriot missiles and super quiet hunter killer subs and air to ground missiles to shoot back at the Chinese mainland.
Taiwan should be to China what Switzerland was to Nazi Germany. They could take it, but at what price?
And of course, the US should commit to defending Taiwan.
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We also need an Asian Defense pact. There are enough nation in that part of the world that can put some serious hurt on China. We need to make it clear to the ChiComs that if they go Imperial Japanese, then they will regret it.
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Wow, "ChiComs". Have we flashed back to 1979?
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And China can do the same to Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Libya and Cuba. Pretty soon all American aircraft carriers would have to hide at home.
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No, it is just that with the American economy on the ropes, the rump government of China decided now was the time to press for screwing Taiwan just a little bit more.
Or just demonstrating that if this is OK for the US to do to European and Chinese companies trading with Iran, why shouldn't China be able to do the same thing to non-Chinese companies trading with someone they don't like?
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Tibet has been majority Han for a while. They're entering fourth stage of Han style assimilation, which is where Inner Mongolia has been for a few decades. Where indigenous culture is largely rooted out, and every remaining Mongol is strongly incentivised to marry into Han families for their own good. Or else.
This is not actually about Communism. Han people started in the Eastern China some five thousand years ago. That's where "five thousand years old culture of China" meme comes from. Their expansion has
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Seems like a much better system than almost any other system of expansion.
At least this way you are not left with minority subcultures hostile to the majority liek we have in the US.
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US didn't expand into the territory of those subcultures. Those were imported from outside. As violent as most of the Indian cultures were, Indians were assimilated into Old World colonisers, not the other way around. It's the mish mash of the European, Asian and African cultures that created many of those subcultures you're talking about.
Modern Russia as well as modern Germany make for two decent alternatives to this mechanism of "conquer and expand" system. Prussians stuck mostly with German-speaking sort
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Indians were assimilated into Old World colonisers
You've never been to any of the major reservations, I take it. We've stayed in (literal) cardboard and bamboo shacks in the slums of Lima, but when we drove through one of the Sioux reservations my wife cried.
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You're mistaken. The Untied States is the one stuck with President Rump.
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No, but the current political tension is increasing, CCP elites have to maintain the narrative. That means that this upgrade must have some kind of a credible (at least to CCP internally) response.
Doublespeak issue (Score:4, Insightful)
This is how doublespeak can be problematic. The People's Republic of China (PRC) has never accepted the Republic of China (ROC, aka Taiwan's) independence. So the PRC is essentially sanctioning a company for selling armaments to...the PRC.
Of course, the PRC said the word "Taiwan" in it's statement. Was that a translation error?
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Re: Doublespeak issue (Score:2)
Oh China... implying Americans are ediucated in the first place ... how flattering of you! ;)
Re: Doublespeak issue (Score:2)
"Can be" problematic?
You say that as if it could also not be...
You meant from the standpoint of the devil's advocate, right? Not shifting the discussion...
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What you mean is that the PRC cannot stomach the idea of millions of Chinese on an island of their own being free and independent. Never accepted is bullshit, the CCP will stop at nothing to counter any examples that point out the CCP is a bunch of lowlife screwups.
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Free and independent? Well, kind of, sort of, maybe almost, at least for the last 20 years. Prior to that it was just another corrupt and despotic dictatorship of the kind that Washington so likes to have for friends.
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This is how doublespeak can be problematic. The People's Republic of China (PRC) has never accepted the Republic of China (ROC, aka Taiwan's) independence. So the PRC is essentially sanctioning a company for selling armaments to...the PRC.
I don't see how that's an example of problematic doublespeak? The US prohibits sales of very many things (controlled drugs, firearms, fireworks, some fissile materials) to members of its own population. The only problematic speech issue is that your final use of the term "PRC" referred collectively to everyone in China and Taiwan, but your first two uses of the term referred to the government of mainland China.
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This is how doublespeak can be problematic. The People's Republic of China (PRC) has never accepted the Republic of China (ROC, aka Taiwan's) independence. So the PRC is essentially sanctioning a company for selling armaments to...the PRC.
Of course, the PRC said the word "Taiwan" in it's statement. Was that a translation error?
Doesn't the RoC also still - formally at least - think that they are the legitimate (and elected...) government of China, and that the communist rebel dictatorship on its occupied territory is just a temporary setback?
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Met a fellow one time whose grandmother left him the largest iron mine in Manchuria in her will. Of course he knew it was worthless, but Chiang had directly told Granny that the day the communists fell he was going to make sure that she got the family's property back. According to him the day Mao died they were going to invade the mainland and the population would spontaneously erupt to bring back the warlords. Didn't quite happen that way.
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There are two different regimes fighting over control of China: Mainland PRC who won the war on the Chinese mainland, and ROC government that lost the war, but managed to flee to Taiwan and entrench there.
PRC considers Taiwan a rebel province of China, just like ROC considers mainland China a group of rebel provinces of China. Therefore it's completely correct to talk about "Taiwan the rebel province of China" and arms sales to it.
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Taiwan has changed it's stance over time. The two main political parties today are those wanting re-unification with the PRC, and those wanting independence. But both parties are relatively moderate in outlook on both of those issues. The view that Taiwan is the rightful ruler of all of China seems to be very rarely held in modern times.
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If a company was selling missiles to the Govt of Texas without permission, USA could sanction them. Would not be a contradiction.
Watching Hong Kong (Score:5, Insightful)
Why Lockheed? (Score:1)
Multiple issues with this. First, the Patriot isn't a LM product, it's made by Raytheon. Next, what business are our defense contractors doing with China that can be sanctioned by them? And finally, fuck China if they think they can just land grab another place after the shit they're pulling with Hong Kong.
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Next, what business are our defense contractors doing with China that can be sanctioned by them?
From TFA, apparently a Chinese owned company makes parts for the F-35. Wish I was kidding.
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Wtf.
There are only two countries on this planet that:
1. Are even remotely a challenge to the US militarily, and
2. Are in bad relations with the US such that conflict is remotely possible
and China is one of them.
So again, wtf?!?!?
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From TFA, apparently a Chinese owned company makes parts for the F-35. Wish I was kidding.
So... what exactly is the point of America's stupendously expensive military-industrial complex if they're outsourcing it?!
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If this Chinese owned company has US facilities, they should simply be seized.
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An option, but it would have serious impacts elsewhere. When a country starts seizing property owned by overseas companies, it really scares away investors, and investment is a good thing. I am sure the US has a contingency plan for doing just that, but only as a last resort.
No one's friend (Score:1)
It was pointed out earlier this week that China's government doesn't really have friends or allies. Some countries tolerate them or do cautious business with them. Some others cooperate because they have common rivals. But none of these relationships are very friendly.
Sanctions can work when you have help from other countries. Sanctions from the government of China aren’t going to be a big problem for Lockheed Martin.
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It was pointed out earlier this week that China's government doesn't really have friends or allies. Some countries tolerate them or do cautious business with them. Some others cooperate because they have common rivals. But none of these relationships are very friendly.
To be fair, the other major power mentioned in the summary is trying its best to lose and distance itself [nytimes.com] from its friends and allies too.
Re: China is going to get lonely... (Score:2)
3 Gorges has some cracks and serious structural issues but there's another problem going on that isn't talked about as much: silt. There's a huge amount of it collecting up against the wall which will eventually rise high enough to make the whole thing useless. In theory, the silt could be dredged out but that's its own huge project and may not be feasible.
For the sake of the bazillion people living down stream I hope it doesn't break. Shutting it down and slowly releasing the built up water would be bet
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Countries have no permanent friends or enemies. They have interests.
One word explains it all (Score:2)
Hwawei.
The Communist is trying to play tit-for-tat with the world (well except for its cronies participated in the Belt and Road trap) if you noticed. Australia, USA, Canada, UK...
Good luck making friends with the developed world again.
Re: One word explains it all (Score:2)
Which communist?
That is like calling (former) East Germany "the democrat".
Re: One word explains it all (Score:1)
Also, sorry Murican. You're not the developed world anymore. You go sit with China now.
-- Rest of the world
Re: One word explains it all (Score:2)
What perfect country are you from? Stones. Glass houses. Throwing bad.
Good for karma whoring though.
Sooo. Wait a minute ... Lockheed sells to China? (Score:2)
/That/ is not right...!
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Huawei's footprint in USA is 0 as USA does not permit Huawei to sell in USA. So you could say USA's sanctions preventing Huawei from selling to Iran have zero impact yet the CFO of Huawei is under arrest in Canada.
What this does is that any Lockheed Martin exec travelling outside of the US has to do a threat assessment that any of the airports they are changing planes in might be feeling friendly enough to China that week to recognize the warrant out for their arrest on sanctions violations.
Does put a crim
Lockheed Martin should be forced to not coplie (Score:2)
Lockheed Martin should be forced to not do stuff for china or lose the US contract.
The upgrade (Score:1)
L/M Probably Does no Business with China (Score:2)
Given what Lockhead Martin makes, I doubt any of it would get approved for sale to China. I'll bet they are getting quite a chuckle over this.