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China United States Technology

Attorney General Barr Accuses Hollywood, Big Tech of Collaborating with China (reuters.com) 224

U.S. Attorney General William Barr took aim at Hollywood companies, including Walt Disney on Thursday as well as large technology firms like Apple, Google and Microsoft over company actions with China. From a report: "Corporations such as Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, and Apple have shown themselves all too willing to collaborate with the (Chinese Communist party)," Barr said. He added that Hollywood has routinely caved into pressure and censored their films "to appease the Chinese Communist Party. I suspect Walt Disney would be disheartened to see how the company he founded deals with the foreign dictatorships of our day," Barr said in a speech at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Museum in Michigan.

Barr chided U.S. companies for being too willing to take steps to ensure access to the large Chinese market. "The Chinese Communist Party thinks in terms of decades and centuries, while we tend to focus on the next quarterly earnings report," Barr said. "America's big tech companies have also allowed themselves to become pawns of Chinese influence." Barr suggested that Apple iPhones "wouldn't be sold (in China) if they were impervious to penetration by Chinese authorities." He suggested American tech companies were imposing a "double standard."

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Attorney General Barr Accuses Hollywood, Big Tech of Collaborating with China

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  • They also collaborate with German. And Israel. And *gasp* EVEN THE UNITED STATES ITSELF! It's almost as if, in order to sell your product in a country, everyone is collaborating with the country's governments they wish to sell their product in!
    • by vlad30 ( 44644 )

      They also collaborate with German. And Israel. And *gasp* EVEN THE UNITED STATES ITSELF!

      They all thought that if they traded with China, China would change. They were wrong all they did was make the ccp rich and powerful and they are behaving even worse, now they realized it and are trying to back out COVID19 is just the excuse to decouple from china and even some of those companies have realized long term it best to move from china

    • I'm sick and tired of people always brigning up the false equivalence of China vs Other western nations.

      Israel, Germany and yes, even the U.S. are democracies.

      China is a brutal, murderous, genocidal totalitarian regime.

      • And yet that doesn't remove the requirement to work with the Chinese government in order to sell your products in China.

      • Mod up. Although the USA and Israel are severely disfunctional democracies, at least they're trying.

      • by dmay34 ( 6770232 )
        On the "brutal, murderous, genocidal totalitarian regime" topic.... ... Have you ever met a black american?
  • Just wait until Hollywood starts producing drama/documentaries about Trump/Barr's time in office.

    • After Trump's presidency is over the last thing I am going to want to see is a movie about Trump. I would much rather see Trump on trial.

  • How cute. Bill Barr thinks it's possible to make consumer devices impervious to penetration by national intelligence agencies.

    • by aitikin ( 909209 )

      How cute. Bill Barr thinks it's possible to make consumer devices impervious to penetration by national intelligence agencies.

      Or this is just a charade of him stating these things to signal that they can't while we (here) all know they've been able to break through Apple's encryption.

      • How cute. Bill Barr thinks it's possible to make consumer devices impervious to penetration by national intelligence agencies.

        Or this is just a charade of him stating these things to signal that they can't while we (here) all know they've been able to break through Apple's encryption.

        Taking your statement literally, I'm quite confident that it's false. Apple uses standard, well-proven cryptographic primitives, and has competent cryptographers to assemble them in secure ways. Their encryption is almost certainly unbreakable by anyone in the world, as is the encryption used by every other major platform. BUT, where are the keys? I'm sure Apple mixes entropy stored deep in the chip with entropy provided by the user in the form of the user's password to derive the root key that is the basis

        • Uum, Apple can remote-update its OS. Somebody at Apple has to write that code. Apple is a US company. National security letters exist. QED.

          Also, there is no such thing as unbreakable encryption. Unless you count XORing with true random data, and then completely destroying thst random data too. Ye olde $3 wrench breaks quide a few cyphers. ;)

          • Uum, Apple can remote-update its OS. Somebody at Apple has to write that code. Apple is a US company. National security letters exist. QED

            You should read about NSLs and the scope of what they can be used to do. What you're implying is not authorized under the law. And if it were, the FBI wouldn't have had to fight with Apple about decryption of the San Bernardino killer's phone.

          • Harbor Fright has one for $4.49 (8" pipe wrench) that's an upgraded model. Made in China--so the Chinese are making tools to break our ciphers?!!?!
        • by aitikin ( 909209 )

          How cute. Bill Barr thinks it's possible to make consumer devices impervious to penetration by national intelligence agencies.

          Or this is just a charade of him stating these things to signal that they can't while we (here) all know they've been able to break through Apple's encryption.

          Taking your statement literally, I'm quite confident that it's false. Apple uses standard, well-proven cryptographic primitives, and has competent cryptographers to assemble them in secure ways. Their encryption is almost certainly unbreakable by anyone in the world, as is the encryption used by every other major platform. BUT, where are the keys? I'm sure Apple mixes entropy stored deep in the chip with entropy provided by the user in the form of the user's password to derive the root key that is the basis of all of the data encryption. But the entropy in the chip can be dug out with the right equipment and expertise, and the user's password just doesn't have many bits, so once you extract the bits from the device the rest is a simple low-cost brute force search.

          Yes, I was intending the comment about breaking the encryption to reference that they've found ways to get data off of iPhones that Apple and/or the end user hasn't unlocked for them, but your statement brings up a valid point.

    • by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @11:03AM (#60299965) Homepage Journal

      That's not really his point, though. Apple goes out of their way to make it difficult for western governments to access the contents of the phone itself. (They happily hand over anything that exists within iCloud to anyone with a warrant, so don't think your iMessages are safe because they're encrypted on your phone.)

      But they can't do that in China. So they happily give China direct access, while forcing the US to look for exploits. (Luckily for anyone in the US who wants to break into an iPhone, there are plenty to choose from.)

      It's kind of hypocritical, but anyone used to Apple should be aware that their privacy stance is all a marketing gimmick.

      • So they happily give China direct access, while forcing the US to look for exploits

        Cite?

      • by brunes69 ( 86786 )

        I think you need to learn a little more about how cryptography works, how phones work, and how software in general works.

      • First, you need to spend some time reading up on how cryptography works.

        Second, you should probably realize that Apple doesn't have to distribute exactly the same iOS in every region.

        • by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

          Encryption is worthless if it's stored unencrypted in the cloud...

          Although presumably it is encrypted in the cloud. Which doesn't matter if the key is also stored in the cloud. iMessages from iCloud have showed up as evidence in court cases before, which is how we know that both Apple has access to them and that they'll share that access with law enforcement. (That and you can restore the entire contents of an iPhone backup on a brand new phone even after the original phone has been destroyed, so we know th

    • 1. China is a one-party-rule state with a controlled economy and no dividing between that one political party and ALL levers of government including the military, the police, the spies, the "businesses", the courts, etc. While the US tried to emulate some of that under the previous admin, with the party in power using the CIA the FBI the IRS and the StateDept to got after the candidate of the other party, they did not come close to the China model.

      2. China passed a law last year making it illegal to encrypt

      • You make several factual statements which I find hard to believe without a citation. Where can I find a reference to the law that China passed last year which forbids encryption for which the government does not have the key? Do you have a citation to support the assertion that the China-censored version of movies is being distributed to other countries?

        I'm all-in for allowing consumer devices to be secure, but subject to search in response to a court ordered sworn-out valid warrant, but the game Apple has played by refusing legitimate US searches of a dead terrorist's phone while happily complying with the demands for each and every search the Chinese "request" (or perhaps secretly have been able to do at any time with keys and a back door...) is a severely warped position that cannot be seen as anything less that either anti-US or pro-Chinese-dictatorship.

        I would also like to see a citation for the claim that Apple complies with China's requests for encrypted data. Even if it is true that China has a law t

  • by sonamchauhan ( 587356 ) <sonamc@gm a i l .com> on Friday July 17, 2020 @10:49AM (#60299891) Journal

    He's right about Hollywood movies. I recall ID2 (aka "Independence Day: Resurgence") had a significant vignette of a China space force squad saluting the PRC flag. So a movie that used to be American scifi, turned into a PRC-heavy story. Should be retitled "In-dependence Day".

    Even shows like 'Hawaii Five-0' make it known that their Chinese bad guys is not a state actor, but a renegade spy.

    • by will_die ( 586523 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @10:58AM (#60299937) Homepage
      Or for a newer example in the upcoming Top Gun movie they removed the Taiwan flag from his jacket which is something the communist party of china wanted.
      • to the CCP that control significant portions of both movie theaters and studios.

        It's not an accident that Hollywood sucks CCP cock when CCP puppets have seats on, or outright control the board (as a former AMC shareholder, that is the case there, as an example).

        This isn't solely done because "OMG CHINESE MARKET SO BIG" but rather because they have influence over governance.

      • by Luthair ( 847766 )

        The US military has been doing the same thing since the 40s - https://www.wsws.org/en/articl... [wsws.org]

        Given the amount the original relies on fighter jets and military locations one has to image the pentagon had a pretty significant influence on both films.

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      He's right about Hollywood movies. I recall ID2 (aka "Independence Day: Resurgence") had a significant vignette of a China space force squad saluting the PRC flag. So a movie that used to be American scifi, turned into a PRC-heavy story. Should be retitled "In-dependence Day".

      Even shows like 'Hawaii Five-0' make it known that their Chinese bad guys is not a state actor, but a renegade spy.

      Also well publicized was the removal of the Taiwanese flag from Tom Cruise's bomber jacket for Top Gun 2. Of course, plenty of content producers have to adapt for countries they are trying to sell product in (language/nudity in the US, violence in Europe, Nazi imagery in video games for Germany, etc).

  • by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @10:54AM (#60299911)

    In China you're pretty much forced to have some apps on your phone and keep them updated after Corona (ie. wechat and alipay). They can thus push compromised updates at will. So China only needs a local root exploit to own people's phones, which as always are much more abundant than remote root exploits. They also don't have any freedom of information acts or pesky requirements to show how evidence was gathered to quickly make this kind of scheme open knowledge.

    US law enforcement could probably just force Google/Apple to push a backdoored update to a single device right now, with existing laws, to get similar results. But it would immediately become open knowledge (maybe not if done via NSLs, but that doesn't help for "normal" crime).

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Apple probably just gives them access to iCloud servers in China.

      • Won't do diddly for say iMessage, even if you allow backups to iCloud they are device specific encrypted.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Does Apple use the same encryption, or any encryption at all, in China?

          • Nevermind, I was wrong. Apple never turned on end to end encryption for iCloud backups. Oops.

            https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]

            "Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.

  • How stupid do these politicians think people are?

    I am getting increasingly convinced that the sooner we are rid of the 'pre internet' crowd that grew up on a misinformation diet of cold war propaganda, the sooner we can start seeing some SANE behaviour out of government.

  • ... as other state actors fill the void.

    The Great Experiment has ended badly and the citizens don't care.

    • by leptons ( 891340 )
      > "I suspect Walt Disney would be disheartened to see how the company he founded deals with the foreign dictatorships of our day"

      I suspect Walt Disney would be disheartened by our very own dictatorship. As someone who lives in a glass house of cards, Barr should not be throwing stones.
  • Since biggest profit means biggest whore. Just ask at your local whorehouse. ;)

    Oh, and don't worry. The USA is still its biggest fucker. ;)

  • Even if this were to be true, which it is not, do tell us Mr Barr whether this is better or worse than colluding with the Russian government to become a well-known and apparently wealthy game show host and later President of the USA?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    • You cannot possibly be implying Trump, can you... because that would be very dishonest. The Meuller team, which consisted entirely of hand-picked Democrat lawyers nearly all tied to the Obama admin or the Hillary campaign, spent years chasing that myth and ultimately reported officially that no American colluded with Russia - Not Trump, nor his family, nor anybody on his campaign, nor anybody in his administration - NO American.

      It's right there in the official report.

      Oh, and if that's not good enough then

      • "We have all the money we need, coming out of Russia." -- somebody named Trump

        In retrospect it was pretty silly to think that one Republican could be trusted to investigate another, so you certainly have a point there.

  • CCC requirements (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ogive17 ( 691899 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @11:04AM (#60299977)
    In manufacturing, about 15 years ago China came up with CCC regulations.. basically they'd send over a government official over to a manufacturing facility in the US (on the company's dime) to certify the authenticity of the part/product being produced for import into China. It was a very expensive and time consuming process.. and little more than a bribe to these government officials while they got to spend 2 weeks (at a time) living in nice hotels and going to nice restaurants.

    Of course we all thought it was ridiculous given the amount of IP theft and counterfeiting happening in China at the time.

    What's my point? Even spending $30-50k every couple of years was beneficial to do business in China. American capitalism favors profit above all else... so it's really ironic that a puppet AG for an extremely conservative president is complaining about certain industries complying with local laws in order to do business. Now I wish these companies would grow a pair and simply cut China off.. but that's not going to happen as long as there is profit to be made. Hurray for American capitalism!
    • they'd send over a government official over to a manufacturing facility in the US

      This is known as pre-shipment inspections [proqc.com] and it is a standard practice in international trade. Different countries can set different laws on how that can be done. For U.S. customers, these are typically done by the (large) importers such as Apple or GM. But why is it any different than custom official inspecting your shipment at the port? Besides, the US also mandates their own cross border inspections [proqc.com] for various causes. In fact, the US even has USDA field offices [usda.gov] in China. Maybe it is better for the Chin

      • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
        It has nothing to do with the quality of product - in fact it really didn't have much to do at all except to make it costly and a pain in the ass to import product in to China. Being certified simply meant that the imported product was not counterfeit. Being CCC certified did not exempt your product from being held up and inspected at ports of entry.

        Like I said, it's been around 15 years since I was involved. The process and requirements may not be the same anymore. All I know is that at the beginning
  • by holophrastic ( 221104 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @11:23AM (#60300041)

    China has more money than the USA, more power, more people, more global influence, more presence in other countries these days, more stability, and more control of its population. And like this article says, China thinks in decades not days.

    The USA has a culture of "we're the best". But over the next five years, you're going to need to choose a course.

    Your first option is to fight China. They're only better than you if they defeat you right? It would seem that you're trying that tactic now. It would seem like you're losing. How will the USA culture change once you've been proven to be not-the-best?

    Your second option is to ally with China. They're better, you want better friends. I can't imagine you'd take that approach. How would the USA culture change if you just submit to the better nation?

    Of course, your third "option" is to do nothing and watch the world choose your course for you. That choice will likely be abject redundancy. That means "poor", by the way. And that's consistent with what we're seeing these days -- lots of very wealthy and powerful americans, lording over the unwashed masses -- just like any poverty-stricken, unstable nation, run by gangs, criminals, dictators, hate, and fear.

    Vote carefully, but know that unless your government actually makes the right decisions, you're basically giving your vote to the rest of the world. I can't imagine you'd prefer that.

    • China is probably close to plateauing. GDP per capita [wikipedia.org] (how much each citizen produces on average) for Communist countries tends to peak at around $10k per person. China is currently right at $10k per capita. Taiwan is about $25k, South Korea about $31k, Japan about $40k, Hong Kong about $48k. So unless China's government changes, it's highly unlikely to get anywhere close to Taiwan's GDP per capita. East Germany was probably the most economically successful Communist country, and it peaked at about $10k
      • That's quite interesting, analyzing the GDP as you've done. I'm curious about one thing though.

        Does the $10k per person include the payments being received from the USA? And does the $65k per person include the same payments being made by the USA?

        Given that China's population is far larger than the USA, and that the USA is literally paying China in hard dollars, I'd want to ensure that we're comparing economies equally.

        Do your GDP numbers consider national debts and collections?

    • As an American, I'm glad the idea of American exceptionalism is going away. It means that the rest of the world can finally start taking care of itself without starving.

      While I'm very happy that the US is a great place to live (contrary to what you read on the Internet) and by far the best place for me to live, I applaud other countries moving towards or achieving parity.

      Our problems stem from the very high degree of freedom we cherish. Freedom is a double edged sword and does not always lead to ideal
    • Your second option is to ally with China.

      This was what the US was doing in the 1970s and 1980s when the US dumped Taiwan ROC and befriended the "communist"/PRC, but not because the US was afraid of China or wanted to change China for the goodness of the Chinese people. The US did that because they couldn't win against then the number two superpower -- the Soviet Union. China developed the nuclear weapons by then and, in the game of the Romance of Three Kingdoms [wikipedia.org], two will unite against the third. There is not much different today except China has a

    • China doesn't want friends they want vassals. Which is why they will end up alone ... or with small band of "friends" like North Korea, Russia and Iran. Good luck with that.

  • If the con artist is so upset about China and its actions, then perhaps the con artist should stop having his name brand clothes made in China.

    Perhaps he and his corrupt family should stop trying to get trademarks approved in China.

    Perhaps he should stop doing business with the Bank of China.

    Perhaps he should stop hiring Chinese companies to work on his failed golf courses.

    Perhaps the con artist should lead by example.

    Then again, as we're seeing with the covid-19 pandemic, leadership is the last thing, next

  • We are not at war with China, I see no legal reason for American businesses to not compete in the Chinese marketplace.

    We have to follow their rules and laws if we want to do business there.

    I had expected Republican leadership to remove impediments for doing legal business. Oh well...
  • by stikves ( 127823 ) on Friday July 17, 2020 @12:03PM (#60300223) Homepage

    We outsourced pretty much all manufacturing to China, and they took advantage of this.

    Unlike other poorer countries where you were allowed to build your own factory and use cheap labor, China only allowed partnerships. You would need to have a 51% Chinese partner, and you would need to teach how everything worked. Over time they were building the factories, tools, and even the products themselves directly, and US was left behind.

    It only took US 40 years to recognize what was going on. I estimate we could come up with a coherent response in the next 5-6 decades or so...

  • Numerous US companies are linked to China. Any major retailer and the majority of manufacturers and many of the major financial/Wall Street firms.

    But Barr picks the industries that are perceived to be on the left to bash.

  • What the hell did politicians think would happen when free trade was opened to the Chicoms? Greedy/incompetent politicians of the past are to blame for the mess we have today.
  • Barr suggested that Apple iPhones "wouldn't be sold (in China) if they were impervious to penetration by Chinese authorities." He suggested American tech companies were imposing a "double standard."

    ... i never believed for a second that they actually were really impervious to penetration by us authorities.

    this us nationalist frenzy is spreading and escalating really quickly.

    btw, does mr barr also have a problem with free speech being violated in saudi arabia, or is that not considered a foreign dictatorship for some reason?

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