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United States Politics

Trump Suggests Delaying Election Amid Fraud Claims, But Has No Power To Do So (cnbc.com) 546

President Donald Trump on Thursday suggested that perhaps the United States would need to "delay the election" on November 3, claiming that mail-in voting would make this fall's election "the most inaccurate and fraudulent in history." From a report, shared by numerous readers: Trump has no power to unilaterally delay elections, which were set for the day after the first Monday in November through a mid-19th century law passed by Congress. Since then, it has never changed, said presidential historian Michael Beschloss. But Trump is trailing in the polls by double digits to Democrat Joe Biden, and election experts have long worried that the president would actively try to interfere with the election in order to prevent a potential loss. As states grapple with how to help citizens vote safely during the coronavirus pandemic, many have turned to mail-in voting as a potential solution that allows people to cast their ballots without waiting in long lines at potentially crowded polling places.
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Trump Suggests Delaying Election Amid Fraud Claims, But Has No Power To Do So

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  • Damn what a moron (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SirAstral ( 1349985 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:06AM (#60347077)

    I don't think this will have as much support from the conservatives as he thinks this will get. But as things are proving out... everyone is okay with corrupt as long as their team is the one doing it.

    I suspect that the shit-stain in chief will have to be, as old stretch face Pelosi said, fumigated from office.

    I wonder how my conservatives friends are going to wiggle this load of bullshit logic around in their minds?

    Lets see how "desperate" this fuck nugget gets.

    • by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:07AM (#60347085)

      I don't think this will have as much support from the conservatives as he thinks this will get. But as things are proving out... everyone is okay with corrupt as long as their team is the one doing it.

      I suspect that the shit-stain in chief will have to be, as old stretch face Pelosi said, fumigated from office.

      I wonder how my conservatives friends are going to wiggle this load of bullshit logic around in their minds?

      Lets see how "desperate" this fuck nugget gets.

      Haven't you heard? Trump is playing a game of five dimensional chess.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Seamoss1 ( 6270064 )
        Trump would still be removed from office, the house would choose the President and the Senate would choose vice, but all house voters for a state get a single vote, which makes the Republicans have majority in both the house and senate, Hence, they choose Trump/Pence.
        • Re:Damn what a moron (Score:5, Informative)

          by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:25AM (#60347833)

          Trump would still be removed from office, the house would choose the President and the Senate would choose vice, but all house voters for a state get a single vote, which makes the Republicans have majority in both the house and senate,

          Hence, they choose Trump/Pence.

          False. The House is sworn in on January 3rd. It would be the newly elected House members that would be choosing the President, not the old ones. We don't know the makeup of that Congress yet, but things are looking pretty good for the Dems. ;) Also, keep in mind that all the blue states will vote on time and will be able to send Reps, States that choose not to hold an election will have many of their contests held up in the Courts, because a delay might not be legal in all those places. And they can't just appoint Electors to choose their Representatives, or have their Legislature appoint them, or have their Governor appoint them; the Constitution covers this, and says:

          When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

          All members of the House of Representatives have their terms expire after two years. If there is no election, there will be a vacancy, and they all they can do to fill it is schedule a Special Election. States that don't vote won't be participating in choosing the new President, if Congress has to decide it.

          None of this is opinion, or controversial. It is all very clearly spelled out in the Constitution for people smart enough to remember the whole thing.

      • by Sique ( 173459 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:13AM (#60347109) Homepage
        There is the famous quip about playing chess with a pigeon.

        Donald Trump might think he plays five dimensional chess, but all he does is knocking the pieces over, crapping on the board, and flying back to to Twitter to claim victory.

        • All the while he claims his opponent was cheating. And many times he wasn’t actually playing anyone. He merely challenged someone to a match but not publicly. He challenged them in his mind so he was "won" as they were cowards who didn’t show.
      • I don't think this will have as much support from the conservatives as he thinks this will get. But as things are proving out... everyone is okay with corrupt as long as their team is the one doing it.

        I suspect that the shit-stain in chief will have to be, as old stretch face Pelosi said, fumigated from office.

        I wonder how my conservatives friends are going to wiggle this load of bullshit logic around in their minds?

        Lets see how "desperate" this fuck nugget gets.

        Haven't you heard? Trump is playing a game of five dimensional chess.

        "He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates 2 dimensional thinking."

      • So he can suck on more than one level?

        But you have to admit, it's quite a feat for a one dimensional character.

    • I don't think this will have as much support from the conservatives as he thinks this will get.

      It's not about getting support from conservatives, it's about getting the liberals to object so hard they are locked in and won't delay having Biden lose.

    • I wonder how my conservatives friends are going to wiggle this load of bullshit logic around in their minds?

      You're right, from what I've seen, there's no conservative support for this, (nor should there be, frankly, from anyone.)

      I've seen it said that:
      "He's trolling, because he's a master trolland loves watching librelz heads explode."
      "He's playing 4-D chess."
      "He didn't make a suggestion, he asked a question."

      And as happens so often, I'm sure someone's said he's being taken out of context, which is the default excuse for every stupid statement that comes out of this administration.

      • by gtall ( 79522 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:16AM (#60347453)

        "He didn't make a suggestion, he asked a question.", yes, that is one of his favorite dodges.

        Another is, "Many people are saying..." when his operatives salted the "saying" to his lapdog media friends who repeat it like good little smurfs.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:59AM (#60347371)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Hmm... Better than average FP for Slashdot 2020, but I'm definitely not seeing the insightful there.

      My initial reaction is that Trump sounds panicked. Hard to believe that reality might be breaking through his reality distortion field.

      Second reaction was the bad joke about "Always bet on the cornered rat." If you think Trump is scared now, just wait.

      Returning to your [SirAstral's] comment and your "wonder" about how they will "wiggle" things in their minds... The power of cognitive dissonance.is YUGE. Didn'

  • by ugen ( 93902 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:09AM (#60347097)

    I guess now we know what he discussed in that phone conversation with mr. "zeroed-out eternal president" Putin.

    Whenever you think Trump can't be any more of a failed human being, he does something like this, and totally redeems himself.

  • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:13AM (#60347107)
    Losing in the polls (that he claims are "fraudulent") . . . delay the election until his popularity recovers. That relies on everyone forgetting exactly why his popularity is low right now. The dead will magically be undead in a few months and the economy will magically recover.
    • by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:50AM (#60347991)

      His statements lately on the upcoming election have been two-fold at nearly every opportunity. He continues to say if mail in voting is allowed, it will be the most fraudulent vote in American history. He, and his staff, continue to put out statements declaring that, if Trump isn't the clear and outstanding winner come November, the election results are fraudulent.

      This is win-win for him. If he manages to convince the right people that the election needs to be pushed back, great, he stays in power. If he doesn't, he's planted the seeds and had his rabid base convinced for months that the results are bunk and should be thrown out if he loses.

      The whole thing is terrifying for those of us that like to think the foundations of what passes for American Democracy still exists. But in this day and age, it's no longer that surprising.

  • by JoshuaZ ( 1134087 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:15AM (#60347117) Homepage

    This isn't the first time he's made a comment like this. When he talked previously about how he should get extra time because the Mueller investigation was an issue, people dismissed it as a joke. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-twitter-russia-mueller-investigation-report-james-comey-fbi-a9085321.html [independent.co.uk] https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/05/trump-term-mueller-1302643 [politico.com] When he said that maybe the US should try having a Presidency for life, people dismissed it as a joke https://theweek.com/speedreads/852099/trump-just-joked-about-being-president-life--6th-time [theweek.com] . I'm wondering if he's going to be pushing this in late October and people will still be trying to claim he doesn't really mean it. What more does it take?

    We didn't delay the election during the Civil War. We didn't delay the election during World War II. We don't have any reason to delay the election now.

    Claims about mail-in-ballot fraud are simply not justified. Ballot fraud is rare, and there's not even a clear cut mechanism how one would be able to do it on a large scale. For over a hundred years, the US military has done in mail-in-ballots for elections and it has worked fine. Meanwhile, Trump himself has voted in elections absentee as have many of his high ranking officials https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/trump-officials-vote-by-mail/ [washingtonpost.com] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-ever-voted-by-mail/ [snopes.com] https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/donald-trump-vote-by-mail-absentee/index.html [cnn.com].

    This is a blatant attempt to delay the election because he knows that given the current numbers he's likely to lose. He isn't necessarily going to lose. Prediction markets give him about a 40% chance of winning, which is not too shabby https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3698/Who-will-win-the-2020-US-presidential-election [predictit.org]. And his polls right now are actually arguably better than George H. W. Bush's polls at 100 days before the election in 1988 who ended up winning. But note that when it was pretty clear before the election in 1992 only a few days before that he wasn't at all likely to win that election, Bush didn't try to delay the election. Because we don't do that in a functioning democracy, and we certainly don't do it simply because one is afraid one is going to lose.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:23AM (#60347145) Homepage Journal

      He should tell his base to boycott the election, then it will surely have to be cancelled!

    • Have you seen whatâ(TM)s going on in New Yorkâ(TM)s 12th District [slashdot.org]? A month after the election and they are still counting ballots and rejecting record numbers of ballots?

      The New Yorker and The NY Times have written about this district and the general issues in NY Stateâ(TM)s first primarily mail in primary, do you really trust all fifty states to simply âramp upâ(TM) their processes for a largely mail-in election in November? Will you wait a month for the final election returns in j

      • by JoshuaZ ( 1134087 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:53AM (#60347323) Homepage
        There's a legitimate concern here! The solution though is for states to start working now on making mail-in-ballots work. Some states have done this for years and haven't had any issues. For example, in Iowa, one can vote by mail no questions asked. It has worked this way for a long time, and the system works. If we had a functioning federal government, the federal government would be helping states get ready for large-scale voting by mail. Unfortunately, rather than do that, Trump is struggling to justify being in office for extra time.

        Voicing concerns in advance of likely problems used to be considered a good thing, but add in a healthy dose of TDS and even the most logical concern being raised is suddenly a issue for his critics that argue against logic to virtue signal they donâ(TM)t support this President at any cost.

        If I said that your comment is you trying to virtue signal that you support Trump and really don't like people who disagree with him, you'd probably respond pretty negatively. So instead of assuming that your political opponents must have some nefarious, cynical motives, maybe try to consider that they are about as sincere as you are?

      • The ridiculousness of it is STAGGERING.

        since thereâ(TM)s no stamp, the postal service doesnâ(TM)t need to mark it â" but postal service employees are instructed to postmark ballots so that they can comply with the state rules. Still, sometimes a clerk forgets, and sometimes an entire post office forgets for days.

        In other word the royal fuck up is people not doing their job at the post. The absentee ballot should have been given priority. they were not they were even left to rot for days. Th

    • by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:57AM (#60347353) Homepage Journal

      Claims about mail-in-ballot fraud are simply not justified.

      They weren't, but nevertheless Trump has announced he will attempt mail-in ballot fraud.

      there's not even a clear cut mechanism how one would be able to do it on a large scale.

      No mechanism? He has already begun working on sabotaging USPS. If he can get his newly-appointed Postmaster DeJoy to selectively slow the mail [fortune.com] in some areas while keeping it on-time in others, I don't see why his plan couldn't/shouldn't at least help to defeat America.

      Why shouldn't the president's fraud plan to commit election fraud work? Many fine people are saying this president knows more about fraud than anyone else.

  • by nagora ( 177841 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:18AM (#60347125)

    We wouldn't want the guy with fewer votes getting in or anything like that, would we?

  • by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:20AM (#60347137)
    Good luck with that one, it's a larf.

    Not only can Trump not delay the election, the people who theoretically would have a say in it burned their bridges sucking up to him over the Coronavirus. He not only lacks the power to make such a decision, but those with the ability to influence such a decision have burned whatever political capital they had to even attempt such a decision. You think you have protests now? Delay the election, because then s**t will really be on fire from the protests.

    This is probably just more fodder for the base to get them into being a frothy Santorum in case he loses.
  • Just a blowhard (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:25AM (#60347157)

    Trump isn't calculating this, he has no plan, he can make no tough decisions. He watches too much TV and gets echo chambered into Fox, Sinclair and OAN running stories about mail in voting bad, which they run because he said he doesn't like it, and then he runs his mouth when he see's the story. The story of Trump the "big tough business tycoon" is the story of a man who is a coward, someone who cannot cope with making the decisions necessary and so afraid of negative attention from his psychotic sycophantic base that he is paralyzed into non-action at every turn. I doubt he is even aware of the Article II rules on who sets the election date, hell I don't even think he's aware that every state runs elections and not the Federal Government.

  • Trump has made socialism, actual communism, and executive orders acceptible to the majority.

    He's made it OK for the government to implement price controls.

    He has made it acceptible for government to pick winners and losers in the economy. This could be an awesome tool for promoting green energy when the next Democrat comes into power (following 2024 electon, worst case).

    He's made it OK to grant pardons to any political friend, not just nuts like Roger Stone but also including his friends like the terrible p

  • Personally, I'd rather he postpone his plans to rig the election, than postpone the election itself. What are the arguments in favor of delaying the election and still having fraud, as opposed to having a fraud-free one on time?

  • The checklist (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dskoll ( 99328 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:44AM (#60347267) Homepage

    Secret police arresting people without a warrant [npr.org]? Check.

    Calling the press the enemy of the people [thehill.com]? Check.

    Hinting that he may not respect [theguardian.com] the resuilts of the democratic process? Check.

    Trying to interfere with the election date? Check.

    Congratulations, America. You have a dictator-wannabe rattling around the White House. (Well, when he's not off golfing.)

    • by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:16AM (#60347455) Homepage
      Well to be fair, Putin likes to get out of the Kremlin too, Dictators need exercise too. But thank god trump doesn't like riding a horse with his shirt off. That is an image that would scar all of us for life. Thankfully only a select few like Melania and Stormy carry those PTSD scars.
  • by Tangential ( 266113 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:44AM (#60347269) Homepage
    The best way to secure the vote Is to remove all computers from the actual voting process. Let’s go back to paper ballots with carbon duplicates and drop them into separate secured ballot boxes. That obviously won’t solve all of the issues but it takes computer cracking from afar ( or from near) out of the equation.
  • Any doubt? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:50AM (#60347307)

    If any doubt remains (in the minds of sane and rational people) that Trump wants to be a dictator, then surely this puts it to rest.

    I'm sure there are lots of folks who'd be happy to see him as dictator though. I keep wondering why I can't see the 'kick me' signs they must be wearing...

  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:51AM (#60347317) Journal

    Besides the "delay the election" part, the most interesting bit of Donald's tweet is that he thinks there is a difference between mail-in voting and absentee voting.

    "With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???"

    https://twitter.com/realDonald... [twitter.com]

    • Yeah, he says "absentee" voting is fine because that's how [sun-sentinel.com] he votes [thehill.com]. Though the Trump family does seem to struggle [nydailynews.com] with mail-in voting, often invalidating their votes.

      From an MNBC interview [twitter.com]:

      President Trump: "I think mail-in voting is horrible, it's corrupt."

      Reporter: "You voted by mail in Florida's election last month, didn't you?"

      Trump: "Sure. I can vote by mail"

      Reporter: "How do you reconcile with that?"

      Trump: "Because I'm allowed to."

  • by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:04AM (#60347393)
    This is one thing I'm not particularly worried about. If he tried this, there would be enough of us who would physically drag his fat ass out of the White House. This is one thing that would make me grab my gun and drive to DC, as I'm sure millions of others would, as well. There's only so much bare treason that we're willing to take.
  • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:23AM (#60347493) Homepage Journal

    Amendment XX Section 1 is crystal clear on one thing: Trump does not get to remain president. If there is no valid election, Trump is out of office at noon on January 20.

    Amendment XII says that the House chooses the President if no candidate receives a majority of electoral college votes, which by law are counted on January 6. However, assuming that no valid elections are held in 2020, as of January 3 there will be no sitting House to perform this function.

    That triggers Amendment XX Section 3: presidential succession by statute. In this case we're talking about The Presidential Succession Act of 1947, specifies that the next in line to assume office is the Speaker of the House. However there will be no sitting House, and (presumably?) no Speaker.

    So President Pro Tempore of the Senate is next in line. Currently that is a Republican, Chuck Grassley. But assuming the Senate election are likewise invalidated, all Senators standing for election are out of office on January 3. That throws control of the Senate to the Democrats, and the the longest serving Democratic senator becomes President Pro Tempore, which happens to be a certain elderly senator from Vermont....

    Patrick Leahy.

    Now there are some potential wrinkles here. The Constitution is silent on how Electoral College members are selected, so in the event of a non-election, state legislatures could simply appoint college members. Republican state legislatures currently control enough electoral votes to force a selection of a Republican candidate. However, most of those states would have to repeal existing laws mandating selection by popular vote, and there are enough Democratic governors in those states to block achievement of a majority in the EC.

    Another possibility is that we'll have some kind of patchwork of legitimacy and illegitimacy. This could throw control of the House or Senate either way. However litigating which elections were or were not legitimate could take many months.

    Another very possible outcome is a naked Constitutional crisis, where Trump openly defies legal succession because vacating office as a result of the other side's ostensible fraud is "unfair". Then everything boils down to the amount of personal loyalty he can command.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by menbiller ( 1457247 )

      That triggers Amendment XX Section 3: presidential succession by statute. In this case we're talking about The Presidential Succession Act of 1947, specifies that the next in line to assume office is the Speaker of the House. However there will be no sitting House, and (presumably?) no Speaker.

      That "presumably?" gets interesting. The Speaker isn't required to be a member of Congress, and there's no constitutional limit on the length of the term as Speaker. Traditionally the Speaker has always been chosen from the elected members, and there's a vote for Speaker after each election, but that's tradition - the constitution doesn't require it. If there's no House to elect a new Speaker, could the previous Speaker remain in the position until there's a House again to vote for a new one?

      • by hey! ( 33014 )

        This is what I suspect also, but it's so far out of the norm that I wonder if it has any practical effect. At some point legitimacy is no longer just a matter of technicalities, it becomes a matter of perception.

        The more bizarre the circumstances the next president assumes office under, the less the public will be inclined to view that president as illegitimate. It's become routine for the right wing to question the legitimacy of Democratic presidents even when they win the popular vote and Electoral Coll

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