1.5% of All Americans Have Been Infected With Coronavirus - 5 Million Cases (apnews.com) 379
Confirmed coronavirus cases in the U.S. hit 5 million on Sunday, reports the Associated Press, "by far the highest of any country..."
"The failure of the most powerful nation in the world to contain the scourge has been met with astonishment and alarm in Europe." Perhaps nowhere outside the U.S. is America's bungled virus response viewed with more consternation than in Italy, which was ground zero of Europe's epidemic. Italians were unprepared when the outbreak exploded in February, and the country still has one of the world's highest official death tolls at 35,000. But after a strict nationwide, 10-week lockdown, vigilant tracing of new clusters and general acceptance of mask mandates and social distancing, Italy has become a model of virus containment. "Don't they care about their health?" a mask-clad Patrizia Antonini asked about people in the United States as she walked with friends along the banks of Lake Bracciano, north of Rome. "They need to take our precautions. ... They need a real lockdown."
Much of the incredulity in Europe stems from the fact that America had the benefit of time, European experience and medical know-how to treat the virus that the continent itself didn't have when the first COVID-19 patients started filling intensive care units. Yet, more than four months into a sustained outbreak, the U.S. reached the 5 million mark, according to the running count kept by Johns Hopkins University. Health officials believe the actual number is perhaps 10 times higher, or closer to 50 million, given testing limitations and the fact that as many as 40% of all those who are infected have no symptoms....
With America's world's-highest death toll of more than 160,000, its politicized resistance to masks and its rising caseload, European nations have barred American tourists and visitors from other countries with growing cases from freely traveling to the bloc. France and Germany are now imposing tests on arrival for travelers from "at risk" countries, the U.S. included.
America has just 44% of the population of Europe — but 77% of its confirmed virus deaths, according to stats in the article from John Hopkins University. (It cites "America's world's-highest death toll of more than 160,000," while noting that the entire continent of Europe has over 207,000 confirmed virus deaths.) "In the U.S., new cases are running at about 54,000 a day — an immensely high number even when taking into account the country's larger population."
1 out of every 67 Americans has now had a confirmed infection.
"The failure of the most powerful nation in the world to contain the scourge has been met with astonishment and alarm in Europe." Perhaps nowhere outside the U.S. is America's bungled virus response viewed with more consternation than in Italy, which was ground zero of Europe's epidemic. Italians were unprepared when the outbreak exploded in February, and the country still has one of the world's highest official death tolls at 35,000. But after a strict nationwide, 10-week lockdown, vigilant tracing of new clusters and general acceptance of mask mandates and social distancing, Italy has become a model of virus containment. "Don't they care about their health?" a mask-clad Patrizia Antonini asked about people in the United States as she walked with friends along the banks of Lake Bracciano, north of Rome. "They need to take our precautions. ... They need a real lockdown."
Much of the incredulity in Europe stems from the fact that America had the benefit of time, European experience and medical know-how to treat the virus that the continent itself didn't have when the first COVID-19 patients started filling intensive care units. Yet, more than four months into a sustained outbreak, the U.S. reached the 5 million mark, according to the running count kept by Johns Hopkins University. Health officials believe the actual number is perhaps 10 times higher, or closer to 50 million, given testing limitations and the fact that as many as 40% of all those who are infected have no symptoms....
With America's world's-highest death toll of more than 160,000, its politicized resistance to masks and its rising caseload, European nations have barred American tourists and visitors from other countries with growing cases from freely traveling to the bloc. France and Germany are now imposing tests on arrival for travelers from "at risk" countries, the U.S. included.
America has just 44% of the population of Europe — but 77% of its confirmed virus deaths, according to stats in the article from John Hopkins University. (It cites "America's world's-highest death toll of more than 160,000," while noting that the entire continent of Europe has over 207,000 confirmed virus deaths.) "In the U.S., new cases are running at about 54,000 a day — an immensely high number even when taking into account the country's larger population."
1 out of every 67 Americans has now had a confirmed infection.
Plot Twist: Numbers are wrong! (Score:3)
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Virus was there way before test kit were released. I'm not surprised if 30 % of Americans got it in December / January. I suspect that I got it in early January, 1 week of intense symptoms almost wanted to go to the hospital.
And you can verify this hypothesis? Your post is invalid unless you can verify that you actually had it. My wife had something pretty bad for a while in December too. I didn't develop anything from her sickness. I'm in the high-risk category. It crossed my mind that she had COVID, but I don't think it was.
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If 30% of Americans got it in December/January, USA would have another 500000 dead in just three months. Half a million dead is kind of difficult to miss.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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No, Fauci (and the S-Gen, CDC) admitted that only recently. At the time they said regular people don't need to wear masks. Smart people of course surmised he was just saying that due to the shortage, given the mask-wearing policies in Asia seemed to be working. I wish they'd treated us like adults then and explained the tradeoff, but most of the legislative and executive branch have been acting like children for years, so I'm not sure we could expect better.
Timeline from Jan-April: https://www.cnn.com/20 [cnn.com]
10x (Score:4)
That's more than 10% of the population. 6 weeks ago, it was plausible that I could move around a store and NOT be exposed to the virus. But 10% population means that I can't avoid it anymore, unless I take isolation extremely seriously. And... as we know.... maybe this is good, maybe this is bad, or maybe it's something in between, but Americans are absolute crap at following rules unless they are encoded into law and enforced by fines or prison sentences.
If that's true, we might be right at the start of an inflection point where the number of cases quickly transitions from low-levels to saturation/herd-immunity.
Whew. This fall might be a wild frikkin ride. We might reach herd immunity well before treatments or immunizations are available. People might think that sounds good, but remember, the overall death rate for this thing is roughly 10 times that of the flu. We're going to be dealing with several mountain-sized corpse pills before we reach that point.
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If this is the case, we're going to reach herd immunity quickly. However, THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING becau
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There are only two possible outcomes here. Either enough people get infected via natural spread, fight it off, and develop immunity until we kill off
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There are only two possible outcomes here. Either enough people get infected via natural spread, fight it off, and develop immunity until we kill off the virus via herd immunity. Or wait until a vaccine is developed, and enough people inoculated to kill off the virus via herd immunity.
Actually there is a third option, that immune response does not last long, making immunization short lived and herd immunity unlikely. I know it's not a convenient idea but it would be wrong to exclude it from rational decision making until you know better.
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We've never killed off a virus through herd immunity, at least in recent history. Even with vaccinations, we've killed off exactly one virus, smallpox.
I've had measles, chickenpox, mumps, whooping cough, various colds, various flus, various noraviruses at least. All viruses that are/were prevalent enough to cause herd immunity and some now have vaccines but along with others such as polio, are still around.
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That is not a number particularly many scientists agree on. The evidence strongly suggests that the asymptomatic rate is much closer to 45%.
Some antibody studies have suggested much higher rates, however its been demonstrated that many of those antibody tests wi
I guess one issue is free healthcare (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'll give you that but our Boris comes close and up to now we (UK) have a higher death rate although it looks like US will pass us on that metric.
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The numbers contradict this. If Americans weren't bothering to get tested until they were dealthly ill, you'd expect to see fewer reported cases but more deaths. i.e. A higher percentage of cases turning into deaths. If you calculate ratio o [worldometers.info]
Re:I guess one issue is free healthcare (Score:4, Interesting)
The ratio of deaths to cases is a stupid metric because the amount of testing changes overtime and the deaths happen with a lag. Try the ratio of deaths to closed cases, it is far more accurate measurement.
Fighting in a buring house (Score:3)
Culpability is spread between FDA, CDC and Trump (Score:3)
Regardless of what Trump did it was severe negligence at the CDC for producing non working tests. The test quality at the CDC was so poor that college grad students could have done better, it is so bad it almost looks intentional. Then the FDA blocked the good tests that worked because they are inflexible and murderously incompetent. When you have a pandemic you just ignore the normal procedures and you let the testing you have available be used immediately because you have to start testing right away for your contact tracing to work . So these two factors really rise up to the level of criminal incompetence.
The second factor was Trump and Pence Who were believing the virus was a hoax and they didnt need to worry about it, that it would disappear, that it would only affect Dem states, that it was just the sniffles, etc. So, Trump ignored it and went to the golf course. If we had a competent detail oriented president, he would have demanded readliness information from the CDC for the huge numbers of tests that would be needed and would have fired if necessary the FDA director and put in someone who would get testing approved in a day or two or an EO to immediately approve all testing systems for immediate use.
Trump still does not seem to understand testing., because he does not seem to know that the point of testing is to find asymptomatic carriers so you need to contact trace and test everyone who was within 10 feet of an infected person using the cell phone apps. It is not to confirm people are infected only after they get symptoms. If you do the latter you are basically DOING NOTHING.
Redfield is certainly culpable for failing, and Fauci had to have known as well and yet from the beginning he gave little or no warning or sound advice. This is more than an honest mistake, this is severe malpractice of public health.
Ig you do what all of these criminals did not then you can be like Taiwan who has no new cases, very few deaths, by tracing, testing, sanitizing, masking, thermcamming the virus out.
We will all go mad (Score:3)
'More than half of people who received hospital treatment for Covid-19 were found to be suffering from a psychiatric disorder a month later, a study has found.'
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
Learned helplessness (Score:5, Insightful)
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You can't say that since thing isn't over yet. Plenty of developed world countries are getting in trouble again. The virus doesn't go away just because you get your infection rate temporarily low. It ain't over until the fat lady sings either herd immunity or vaccine.
False Headline - Number Infected Is Much Higher (Score:5, Interesting)
The AP story states that there are 5 million confirmed SARS-C0V-2 infections, which is well known -- by now -- are people who have had positive tests, and most of these people were ones who were significantly symptomatic. The portion that has been infected in much higher. One of the best models of the pandemic in the U.S. is one maintained by Youyang Gu who has a very good article [covid19-projections.com] about the relationship between confirmed cases and actual infections. His model currently has a central estimate of the number of Americans ever infected at 41 million (12.7% of the population). With the current actual death toll from the virus at something like 200,000 (there is a significant undercount, much of it early in the pandemic) this suggest another ~1.5 million would die if the pandemic goes to completion.
BTW most the number you read about when herd immunity "kicks in" are not estimates of how many would get infected, but are only the threshold were it starts to converge (die out). Even a converging infection chain can infect many people, and with the structure of the U.S. pandemic, with many lagging but uncontrolled infection areas that will export new infections to areas already above herd immunity the actual total infection rate could top 90% before the pandemic has run its course.
The cure is worse than the disease (Score:3)
Really, for everyone who isn't high-risk the cure is worse than the disease.
I mean, let's put you out of work, let you run out of money, and throw you out on the street. But at least you're healthy.
Life is more than survival.
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No, but comments like yours feed anti-American prejudice along the lines of "America Stupid" all over the world.
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No, but comments like yours feed anti-American prejudice along the lines of "America Stupid" all over the world.
That's a but harsh. We don't consider all Americans stupid, just the 46.1% that voted for Trump.
Hey, that's not fair! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Holy crap.
Here in Germany elections are by law either on Sunday or on a public holiday. Has been that way for a century. Never waited for longer than a minute for my turn at the voting booth.
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Holy crap.
Here in Germany elections are by law either on Sunday or on a public holiday. Has been that way for a century. Never waited for longer than a minute for my turn at the voting booth.
Ditto, I've never waited more than 5 minutes. The US is good at many things, representative democracy isn't one of them.
We also close polls in districts where Dems vote (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is when you tell folks stuff like this they refuse to believe you because it's so insane. It's true, but the enormity of it is too much for most people's minds to wrap around.
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And they're so desperate now to keep the "wrong people" from voting that they're destroying the USPS to make sure vote-by-mail is impossible.
Re:You don't speak for me bonehead (Score:4, Insightful)
Herd immunity (Score:3, Informative)
Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic.
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic... [mayoclinic.org]
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Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic.
70% (or even 75%) of the population is an estimate for herd immunity, but it does not mean that this number of people would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic, because some people can be immune due to T-cell cross-reactivity between "common cold" coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2. There are different estimates of what percent of the population has SARS-CoV-2-reactive T cells. Accordingly to one study:
Importantly, we detected SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells in 40%–60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating "common cold" coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.
Source: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/... [cell.com]
I saw another study that gave between 20%-50%. In any ca
Re:Herd immunity (Score:5, Insightful)
more like at 10%
so a million more americans have to die until you have your herd immunity. a price worth paying?
Re:Herd immunity (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet somehow many countries have managed to get the virus under control. Looks like the virus does care after all. These countries try to hold out until the vaccine is available instead of just letting 1% of their population die which is apparently your preferred solution.
Re:ok journalist (Score:5, Informative)
"But after a strict nationwide, 10-week lockdown, vigilant tracing of new clusters and general acceptance of mask mandates and social distancing, Italy has become a model of virus containment."
This summarizes the whole article, to me; after royally fucking up the initial response they're now turning around and lecturing us on how to do it? Get fucking real. Maybe Europe's lower number of cases right now has something to do with a significant part of the population already having herd immunity from the opening clusterfuck.
"America Bad" is a headline that always works, apparently.
You are talking nonsense: Europe has done far better than us. From Worldometers:
Europe Population: 747M people (https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/) Deaths: 206,135 (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) Deaths Per Million: 275
USA Population: 331M Deaths: 165,235 (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) Deaths Per Million: 499
Europe also got hit first (Score:5, Informative)
Re:ok journalist (Score:4, Informative)
If that comparison wasn't bad enough remember that Europe got hit hard early before WHO even had recommendations, before anyone knew hospitals would get flooded, and before anyone even spoke of a curve much less what shape it should have.
The USA with all the benefit of hindsight ... the USA can be thankful that it didn't hit there first.
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with a significant part of the population already having herd immunity from the opening clusterfuck.
Herd immunity doesn't apply to covid-19 and even if it did, we are nowhere near the number of people needed [npr.org] to be even moderately effective at slowing [mayoclinic.org] the spread. Also, we're approaching six months in and we still aren't doing what Italy, or any other country which has suppressed cases, is doing. In fact, we're doing nothing at all and encouraged to do nothing at all [imgur.com] by one particular political party who do [wmcactionnews5.com]
Re:Low death rate below 55 yo (Score:5, Informative)
What about the lingering health problems affecting survivors? Is that fun? Death is not the only issue here - surviving this virus can be a lot different to surviving the 'flu or common cold.
Re:Low death rate below 55 yo (Score:4, Informative)
Taiwan got rid of the virus without a lockdown, because they tested, sanitized, tracd, cell phone traced, masked, thermcammed the hell out of it early on. Lockdowns are only necessary if your tracing and testing is overrun becuase you didnt do a good job with it in the first place, to knock down the case numbers so the testing and tracing can keep up. You can also greatly increase testing to test everyone 3 times per month at this point testing tracing alone without lockdowns can wipe out the virus no matter how many are infected. This can be done with mass batch test automation.
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Of course not. You conveniently missed out health services being packed to capacity or over capacity, leading to lack of treatment for non-Covid cases, or cross infection if you do get into hospital. Care workers getting sick and being unable to look after people who cannot look after themselves. A whole host of societal problems which I know you are aware of. But to feed the troll, no, I would not like to get Covid-19, recover, and look forward to a life without scuba say, due to long term lung damage, nor
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Man, fuck you. You really think influenza is a walk in the park? That you're just sneezy for a while and then you're all better forever? Google "influenza post-viral syndrome". Google "chronic fatigue". The flu ruins people's lives. Not everyone, no, but COVID isn't killing everyone either. So the next time you're gonna say shit like "death is not the only issue, for COVID", check your fucking privilege and then shut the fuck up.
Grow up.
Covid-19 and its post-recovery effects are, in general, for those affected, way worse than the corresponding for Influenza.
Many people die from Influenza. Many people suffer after recovering from the primary infection.
Many people die from Covid-19. More than from Influenza. Many people suffer after recovering from the primary infection. More than from Influenza, both in terms of numbers and in terms of severity.
Both are serious. Covid-19 is worse.
In short, you fuck off.
Re:Low death rate below 55 yo (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fucked my workmate, he seems to be in a state of endless fatigue and other health problems from catching covid back at the end of march over 4 months ago. I hope it's not permanent. Sure he had mild asthma but at the same time he was a very fit person under 50. At least he's alive, someone else from my workplace died of it, company of a few hundred people.
Question is, how many people are getting this long tail / aren't recovering fully? I've heard anecdotal evidence that it happens a lot, but how much as a percentage of cases, I have no idea.
165,260 dead in the US, that's pretty bad, if terrorists killed 1/10th of that number then people would be plenty more hysterical. How many plane crashes does that equate to? And if the rate of deaths doesn't slow down then there will be over half a million dead Americans this time next year.
Are people hysterical? Or is it that you don't like having to change your lifestyle to protect people's lives?
Have people learned that they should wear masks or will there be a 3rd wave?
Not wearing a mask is rude and massively selfish, How do I feel about people that don't wear masks in public? It's along the lines of get the fuck away from me you c**t. Same as if someone waved a loaded gun in my face.
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How many plane crashes does that equate to?
~955 average 737 MAX crashes.
When it's terrorists the media steps up (Score:2)
The media runs stories, but nothing near like what they did to get us into Iraq & Afghanistan. Instead we get stories about how we can safely send kids back to school, ignoring the fact that there's no money to do it safely and the infection rate is too high to meet even the very mild CDC guidelines.
Our COVID response has been a total failure of every single institution on down. Including t
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165K dead in the USA is the most relevant statistic. On current trends and projections, we will likely end up north of 300K dead.
Your viewpoint seems to be "Meh. Most of them were old anyway. Who cares?"
Most of them weren't old (Score:2)
Re:Low death rate below 55 yo (Score:5, Insightful)
My message was not hysterical, look the word up in a dictionary.
And initial reports say that 10 to 15% of people are suffering long term, for America that'd be 30 to 45 million people I'll put it colloquially, who would be fucked, not much good for the job market and a huge economic drain.
What is your idea of hysteria? Is something I said not true? Maybe you're having problems with the truth of the situation.
Hysteria = 'wildly uncontrolled emotion'
Me = chilled out at home waffling on slashdot, not catching some shitty virus because my gov't is nice enough to pay me to stay at home for the meantime and consume lots of vitamin D to get my immune system to the best position possible in case I do catch COVID when I have to go back to work.
Did I mention the bit where one of the staff where I work is now dead and my work mate is still suffering 4 months after getting it? pretty sure I did.
Do you ever buy lottery tickets? What is the odds of winning the lottery? Now if one of all the people in your extended family caught COVID, what is the odds that one of them would die? at 10-15% each, what is the odds that one of them would have nasty long term ailments after catching the virus? If there's 20 people in your extended family then the chance of one of them dying could be about the same as getting a 6 on a die roll - is that a chance worth taking?
Re:Low death rate below 55 yo (Score:4, Interesting)
Hysteria? How about these lasting conditions when you recover? https://www.sciencemag.org/new... [sciencemag.org]
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There is evidence that 55% have brain damage this includes many young people. Also this it only hurts old people crap is really outrageous. So its okay to kill old people. Give me a break. Do you know how asinine that sounds? The way to do it is look at Tawan and you test, trace, cell phone trace, sanitize, quarantine and mask the hell out of it and then you have no new cases. The problem in the US is we didnt test and now we are always playing catchup with testing and we refuse cell phone tracing tech. Onl
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The death rate does not match the hysteria.
You're right. This is no big deal being 3 - 4 times as deadly as the flu (so far), or 2.5 times as bad as yearly vehicular deaths (so far). It's funny how the goalposts keep moving.
It's also funny how Republicans claim to be pro-life but are saying grandma should die [usatoday.com] so we can get the economy rolling. It's also interesting to note there are literal death panels in place [cbsnews.com] because of being overwhelmed after reopening to "get the economy rolling" again. Of course, t
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The downside is, of course, that many of these idiots will take several innocent people with them into an early grave.
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"but it starts with 'c' and ends with 'zyme"
Dunno, what is it?
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If you really want to know its name, here's a paper [nih.gov] on its efficacy for a single case.
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I'm not bothered about colds but I would love to know if it has any effect on COVID19.
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Re:Can't Fight The Flu (Score:5, Informative)
You can't fight the common cold.
Yes, you can. Wash your hands frequently after touching surfaces and don't put your hands to your face. Also, make sure to pick your nose before you shake someone's hand, not afterwards.
You definitely can't fight something that's even more contagious.
And yet, Taiwan, literally across the street from China, has 450 cases. Total. And 7 deaths. They have a population of just under 23 million which is only slightly larger (by 2 million or so) than Florida has. By comparison, Florida has over 461K confirmed cases and 6,500 dead [cbslocal.com] (as of July 30th). There are counties in Florida with higher cases and deaths than the entire country of Taiwan. How is it that Taiwan has such low numbers [cnbc.com]?
Cheng said the key lesson for the rest of the world is that leadership matters. She noted that Taiwan's government had a strong plan — one that had been in place since the SARS scare of 2003 — for managing a pandemic. And there were no exceptions to the rules. "They have professionals running the show," she said. "These are people who have trained for years for this."
Also [sfgate.com]:
Taiwan learned from the mistakes made in its clumsy response to the 2003 SARS outbreak. It prepared for the next epidemic by establishing a centralized disaster management center and building a communications pipeline among central, regional and local authorities.
Meanwhile, in the U.S. in 2018, the Trump administration disbanded the National Security Council’s pandemic response office.
So you are correct. There is no way to fight something this contagious. No way at all. We just have to let people keep dying.
Re:Can't Fight The Flu (Score:5, Informative)
And this has what to do with anything? Are you trying to say we couldn't have followed Taiwan's example, that we could only listen to what the WHO said?
Your deflection has failed, miserably. Just like the con artist.
Re:Can't Fight The Flu (Score:5, Informative)
All that China-blaming could be used by any country; any country could have responded to the China and WHO information or lack-of, the same as the US. We did not.
Vancouver, Canada had six flights a day to/fro China; 10% of our population is from East Asia, there's a lot of business and personal visiting.
BC, with 5 million people, has 195 dead so far, as if Arizona had just 250 (they actually have 4500 dead). And Arizona has very little direct contact with China, has just 3% Asian extraction.
It makes for a terrible case for blaming any other country. Arizonans were killed by infections from other Americans, infections that did not have to happen, like the ones in BC that never happened.
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You can. Other countries like NZ have done and they wiped it out. The reason no one really goes after cold and flu is because it is minor with very low fatality rates, This cannot be said about SARS2 (despite the Trump lies about it). At a mortality of 1% this is severely high and starts to take out young people.
Re:Can't Fight The Flu (Score:5, Interesting)
You can fight it with test, trace, isolate, masks, quarantine. So stop spreading deadly disinformation,. Look at Taiwan that wiped it out without even a lockdown. Get a clue. And its not because they are an island. Its because they tested, traced, quarantined, thermal cammed, cell phone traced the hell out of it.
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> (maskless chowderheads spewing "saliva" into eachothers' mouths at close range)
You spelled semen wrong:
https://www.queerty.com/san-fr... [queerty.com]
False (Score:4, Informative)
This is a false statement.
Re: Nobody else is testing (Score:4, Informative)
Ok, who cares what others are doing? We have 5 million infected, if that goes up to say 35 million over the next few years .. thatâ(TM)s 1.5 million people dead â" hardly a small number. We spend a few hundred billion on police when only 15,000 people are murdered every year. We put kids in cages, deport, and build walls when some illegal immigrants kill a few hundred or less in mostly highly publicized cases per year. Still, the conservative solution to a pandemic is to ignore it because they canâ(TM)t be inconvenienced.. who cares if 1.5 million mostly old people die a few years early? 35 million infected is realistic given thatâ(TM)s the number equally contagious diseases like the flu or measles (before vaccination) get. Mind you during Ebola conservatives âoecaredâ and called Obama terrible things when it killed zero Americans who acquired it on US soil. Even Trump blamed Obama for Ebola. More proof conservatives are disproportionately are paranoid about things. They are OK with Trump giving out stimulus checks due to the emergency but what about people who need welfare because they faced a circumstance not of their doing? More proof conservatism is basically hate.
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You had better call your congressperson for $70 billion for testing alone and for mandatory cell phone tracing its really the only way to get it under control and needs to start now.
Re: Nobody else is testing (Score:3)
Won't work. You can't do herd immunity and survivors suffer internal bleeding and organ destruction.
Contact tracing and isolation will.
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We have 5 million infected, if that goes up to say 35 million over the next few years .. thatâ(TM)s 1.5 million people dead â" hardly a small number.
The CDC [washingtonpost.com] estimates the actual number of infected in the US is likely 10 times higher than the confirmed case count. As of today, that would be about 50 million infected.
Trump called Obama a horrible person for golfing.. (Score:2, Informative)
...during the Ebola crisis.
Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 16h - House sends impeachment articles to Senate
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan- 20th first case in South Korea
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan 28th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Fe
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"That's how it works in nature." So then thieves, serial killers, and rapists are part of nature too, do you think we should let them do what they do willy nilly? What death rate would of a virus you say "cure it" instead of "let it spread"? Remember to save a few people you conservatives are ok under the guise of self defense with wiping out entire populations that may or may not be adherent to a particular religion and torture without trial (Trump campaigned on bringing back torture), but now suddenly 150
Re:Nobody else is testing (Score:4, Insightful)
Other countries are doing far more testing. The thing is other countries tested the hell out of early so have far fewer cases, so there is much less to test and trace. The US testing is constantly way behind the number of contact tracing needed to actually stop the spread. Meanwhile, whether or not to spend what needs to be spent on test&trace ($70 billion or so) is a subject of debate. Meanwhile the virus causes major organ damage to more than 10% and organ damage to 50% with brain damage to 50%. The smart thing to do would be to use $70 billion to build a massive testing complex that can be used with future pandemics, and then use mandatory cell phone tracing apps to trace it out Be able to test every 3 times per month to find all of the carriers and you can make the virus go away. The problem is Trump thinks he can will the virus away and is completely ignorant of the function of testing in stopping asymptomatic spreaders and contact tracing.
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Meanwhile the virus causes major organ damage to more than 10% and organ damage to 50% with brain damage to 50%.
You seem to be saying that 2.5 million people in the US have suffered organ damage and/or brain damage from COVID. Have I got that right? What are your sources for these numbers?
Re:Nobody else is testing (Score:5, Insightful)
A place like New Zealand i testing less because they tested a lot early and thus contact traced the virus for no new cases. Taiwan did so as well. The US did basically NO testing in the beginning so therefore they let the case numbers explode, So now we need a lot more testing to be adequate.
Adequacy of testing is based on the metric of testing everyone within 10 or 20 feet of an infected person to do contact tracing of the virus to isolate spreaders. If you test early to meet that metric you need fewer, if you dont test enough early, the amount of tests you need increases with time,
This is the valid testing adequacy metric because it is the one that determines the effectiveness of testing for stopping the spread. This is the whole goal of testing which is to stop spread. Trump does not seem to understand this, and thinks testing is just to test people who already have symptoms, But doing that, you are doing NOTHING.
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Well your first sentence is false.
I guess I could respond to the rest, but I don't care.
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First, what the US needs right now is to test pretty much everyone 3 times per month through mailin and build the automated batch processing systems do to this which would prepare us for any future pandemic and also stop this one. This would make sure that no matter what we ae not in this situation again and would save many lives. It is well worth the $70 billion it will take
here is the whole problem: Testing adequacy is key. The function of testing is to contact trace to stopspread for no new cases to find
It's actually going to probably cause less (Score:2)
The result will be about 10 years shaved off the baby boomer cycle (e.g. where they dominate politics).
That said the Republicans see this coming and are pushing the "alt-right" and anti SJW themes to try and bring young men on.
The GOP is very, very good at using a ha
Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Here are major countries that still have a higher rate of testing than the USA: UAE, Bahrain, Denmark, UK, Singapore, Russia, Israel, Lithuania. Australia, Qatar, and Cyprus are right behind us. There are also a bunch of micro-states that have higher testing rates.
Why do you feel the need to lie about such things?
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Testing does not change the death count.
Re: Nobody else is testing (Score:2)
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One testing metric is the testing protocol which is to be effective you need to test everyone who was within about 10 to 20 feet of an infected person, This is what other countries were doing and this is about the metric you need for a containment strategy that was used by Taiwan for no new cases, If you get started early, you will need fewer tests, if you get started late, you need much more. But getting started late, it will look like you are doing MORE tests, when actually you are failing this metric in
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No, I don't think. But you should try it sometime. We still have very low testing per capita.
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https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020... [ucsf.edu]
Also as per my previous comment the USA would need 70% of the population to have recovered from the virus to achieve herd immunity.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong. Lancet study, masks 80% effective (esp N95). You can knock out the virus, and these statements are EXTREMELY dangerous to say you cannot because you can so if you give people this idea you cannot you will cause many more deaths than needed. You can. Taiwan did, and they did it without lockdowns. They did it with test, trace, quarantine, santiize, thermcam, cell phone tracing, masks. New Zealand needed a lockdown because they were a little late getting the testing and tracing up but not
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Wow, that was a whole lot of blithering right there. The fact is that many other countries around the world have definitely and successfully "fought" this virus. You just can't handle the fact that the USA has completely fallen on its face and failed to do so because of a complete and abject failure of leadership at the national level.
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That is pretty much the issue. Barring inter-state travel is a pretty big deal in the US, which makes a real lockdown quite difficult.
Re: USA has the most cases, but.... (Score:2)
Oh, really? Cause New York is putting out of state travelers in quarantine. That's all countries are doing with international travel, so I don't see a big distinction here.
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And the countries that do have a larger population have a style of government that could actively enforce far more extreme lockdown measures and enforcement procedures than could be legally implemented in the United States.
The US death rate per million is almost double that of Europe (which, incidentally, has a significantly higher population as well, not that it affects the rate).
Stop winning already. We concede. You don’t need to keep trying to outdo us....
Re:USA has the most cases, but.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The US has done large-scale "lockdown" measures before. During WWII, there were federally-mandated curfews, rationing of essential products, factories were forced to switch to munitions, etc. One has to wonder how the people in the US who now balk at the "tyranny" of being forced to wear a little mask would have fared back in WWII.
And make no mistake, COVID is as serious as WWII. In six months, the US has seen more American COVID-19 deaths than there were military deaths in an entire year of WWII.
You're giving them too much credit (Score:3)
None of this would be an issue if the Dems had better candidates, but Hilary Clinton gutted the party in 2016 so that there wouldn't be another young upstart like Obama to snatch the nomination from her. Biden is, to be blunt, too old for this shit. He shouldn't hav
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Yes.
I'll bet there's a lot that astounds you.
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Care to imagine just how long an American leader who tried to impose an eastern country style lockdown across the entire USA, and actively enforced it with no less severe penalties, would be able to sustain such regulations?
I'd be surprised if such measures could even last 24 hours anywhere in the USA, let alone the 3 to 6 weeks that would actually be necessary to deal with the problem.
The way to stop this disease once and for all is to treat the entire population as if they are already sick, whether o
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Note that just a few weeks ago you people used France as a counterexample. The USA will catch up with Sweden and Italy in 6 and with Spain in 8 weeks. What will your excuse be then?
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844 to 851 (0.8%) Belgium
673 to 673 (0%) Andorra
657 to 686 (4.4%) UK
607 to 610 (0.5%) Spain
578 to 582 (0.7%) Italy
545 to 570 (4.6%) Sweden
459 to 464 (1.1%) France
409 to 498 (21.8%) USA
349 to 527 (51%) Chile
322 to 473 (46.9%) Brazil
I don't understand how anyone can still act like the USA is doing fine when you compare to the other countries that are on the top of the list today. The only other places doing as bad in the last month are in South America. E
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Major difference - Italy, Spain, Belgium and the UK, all countries with higher urban density than the U.S. average, all had their cases run up to high levels early in the pandemic when little was known about how to deal with it, and mass testing (and much protective equipment) was unavailable. Then they got things under control and case rate plummeted, and have stayed far below U.S. numbers.
The U.S. with enormous advantages (much more dispersed population, not hit as hard early and thus ample opportunity to
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I did this before [slashdot.org].
Belgium: Has 381 deaths since 1st of June (almost arbitrarily chosen date after peak). And it has 11589623 citizens. Which means 32.87 deaths per 1M.
US: Has 58042 deaths since 1st of June and 175.35 deaths per 1M.
Should I do it also for other countries you listed?
My interpretation is that some countries that got it early (before effective handling was developed) were hit hard and had a lot of deaths. But when you account for that and look how successful they are now, then it paints a diffe
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That's also our national tragedy.
Yeah, we're so individualistic and nonconforming that we're willing to let a couple hundred thousand die of preventable disease, all for what amounts to a minor inconvience of wearing a mask.
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You can get food without HFCS, but it takes vigilance checking ingredients... and it is invariably almost always more expensive. The only product we still buy with HFCS are Bread & Butter pickles, as we've not found anything comparable taste-wise -- even at two or three times the price.