Lyft Joins Uber in Threatening To Pull Out of California Over Driver Status (theverge.com) 340
Lyft said it would shut down operations in California if forced to classify drivers as employees, the company's executives said in an earnings call with investors on Wednesday. Lyft joins Uber in threatening to pull out of one of its most important US markets over the question of drivers' employment status. From a report: At issue is the classification of ride-hailing drivers as independent contractors, which Uber and Lyft say most drivers prefer because of the flexibility and ability to set their own hours. But labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers' compensation. Earlier this week, Uber and Lyft were ordered by a California superior court judge to classify their drivers as employees. Both companies have said they would appeal the ruling, which was stayed for 10 days. But if their appeals fail, Lyft may join Uber in closing up shop in California, the company's president John Zimmer said. "If our efforts here are not successful it would force us to suspend operations in California," Zimmer said on a call announcing the second quarter earnings of 2020. "Fortunately, California voters can make their voices heard by voting yes on Prop 22 in November."
Let 'em (Score:5, Insightful)
Cities can just allow more actual taxis, and the ex-drivers of said pathetic companies can get real jobs with decent pay and benefits.
If your lifestyle depends on taking advantage of underpaid, exploited workers, maybe get a different lifestyle.
No they really cant (Score:3)
Cities can just allow more actual taxis
That would reduce the value of existing taxi medallions so no, they really cant
the ex-drivers of said pathetic companies can get real jobs with decent pay and benefits.
Laughably stupid in an economy where most places are still shut down or only partly open, and one of the few things you COULD do that earned a decent wage with great flexibility, was drive for money.
If your lifestyle depends on taking advantage of underpaid
See: Politicians.
Otherwise are you talking about
Re:No they really cant (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares if the value of medallions goes down? Allowing Lyft and Uber does the same thing!
How is driving for a taxi not "driving for money?" Explain how it is any different from driving for Uber or Lyft?
I know that your anecdotes seem like "facts" to you. But they are not. This is what a fact looks like: https://www.thestreet.com/pers... [thestreet.com].
The average is $8-$11 per hour, with no benefits. Do you live in California? On that salary, you are living in a bunk bed in a room with twelve other guys.
And yes, I have a friend who is active in labor organizing Lyft and Uber. I'm pretty sure I know a bit more about this issue than you appear to.
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If you read the link you posted it is "after expenses".
Normally when I see those numbers they are trying to make the $/HR as low as possible so they factor EVERYTHING in. Your car payments, insurance, vehicle registration, tires, oil changes, etc.
There are certainly arguments that can be made for part of each thing put on the list, but certainly not 100% of everything.
Not to mention that a self selected survey of 1,100 people isn't the most scientific way to figure it out.
I'm curious, do the drivers even w
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I have a friend who drives for Uber and has been trying to unionize them, and yes, that is what the majority of drivers want.
They don't buy into the "this will make for less hours" propaganda. Experience has shown that is simply not the case, when workers get paid more, the difference usually comes out of the owners share, which is astronomical, rather than being taken as an hours cut, or even a major increase in prices.
See, it turn out that if the owners could be charging nay more, they already would be. A
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You realize a lot of those are things that the employer would be paying for in a cab company?
Most of the time not really, well at least not for all cab companies, pre-uber there there was 3 types of cabs in my city:
1) Yellow cabs, owned by the company. Driver was either an employee of the company (drive from 12-8) or whatever. Or more common, they driver paid the cab company to rent the car for the day. The driver kept all the money made from the fares.
2) Company car, was pretty much the same situation as above, but it wasn't a normal marked cab. They would often be Cadillacs or something simil
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Uber and Lyft have already driven down the price of medallions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
You are quoting a source for salary, not total benefits. Because you are a propaganda pushing fuck-monkey.
Since you have moved on to insults now. Fuck off you labor hating twat. Labor will organize, and capital will bend the fucking knee and give us back what they have stolen from us. And everyone will rejoice at the rebirth of the American middle class. Except you of course, you hateful little moocher.
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Yep. But why not call them what they are: day laborers. They've got a phone, and other than that, they're no different than the folks who line up at a well-known location at 06:00 and 06:30, hoping to be chosen to work that day.
In fact, they're no different than most folks a century about, before unions.
Re:Let 'em (Score:5, Insightful)
I tend to think if it more like:
I'll say the same to anyone who thinks that getting an extra $600 for the limited time they're on unemployment insurance (a maximum of 26 weeks in many states) is living high on the hog.
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$600/wk = $31k/yr. That's why a lot of people have likened it to a test of a UBI.
Regardless of whether you think $600/week ($31k/yr) constitutes a "significant" amount of money, I think everyone can agree that unemployment payments should be structured so that it's always preferable for people to work, rather than sit at
Re: Let 'em (Score:3)
Just to put this in hard numbers, when I was furloughed for two weeks earlier this year, my total "take home" pay for that period was $1540. Compare that number to your own two week take-home pay. For me that is about (estimating because I do a very large 401k deduction) $500 below my regular take home pay.
I was given a choice between talking PTO and getting my regular pay, or the furlough. The unemployment pay is the reason I took the furlough. It's close enough to my regular pay that I would rather take t
Re:Let 'em (Score:4, Insightful)
If I offer you money to do a job, and you willingly take that money and do that job, and there's no fraud involved, then there is no "taking advantage" or "underpaid" involved.
There are areas new to the gig economy, and new with managing people by algorithm, that we need to figure out how to regulate. But the basic prospect of "here's what this job pays, take it if you like" is fundamentally fair (again, as long as there's no fraud involved).
Re: Let 'em (Score:3)
So do restaurants and grocery stores unfairly take advantage of the hungry for profit?
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Wait. Are you saying there is such a thing as the far left in America? Do you have a number I can call? I really want to meet those guys! I thought they'd all gone the way of the dodo: murdered for profits.
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Cities can just allow more actual taxis, and the ex-drivers of said pathetic companies can get real jobs with decent pay and benefits.
Hopefully those are two distinct thoughts and you weren't suggesting that getting a job driving an actual cab provides decent pay and benefits. Many places the cab drivers are not actual employees either.
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https://neuvoo.com/salary/?job... [neuvoo.com]
This source pegs average taxi driver compensation in the US at $54,600, significantly higher than Uber and Lyft drivers make. But this source is on the high side.
Another source indicates closer to $36,000, still higher than the average for Lyft and Uber. https://www.salary.com/researc... [salary.com]
Benefits are not as good as in many industries, but that is due to taxi drivers being classified as independent contractors in many places.
You get that this law will change that in California
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You misunderstand the power dynamics at play. Politicians have an investment in entrenched interests like taxi cabals. You are buying into tbe surface reasoning.
Follow the money. It doesn't lie.
Uber and Lyft disrupt this cozy, unholy relationship, and, just like the mafia demanding protection money, the pols dutifully go after the disruptors.
Follow the money, it doesn't lie.
There. Now you're woke.
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Nope. Sorry, you think that Uber and Lyft aren't bribing their own politicians? You think they aren't playing the very same "screw the working class" game? Are you that simple?
The only thing Silly Valley disrupts is the middle class. Their idea of innovation is to take an industry and turn the workers into low paid contractors while siphoning off the profits for themselves and their bought and paid for politicians.
Don't be naive. The elite of Silicon Valley are nothing more than rapacious villains with the
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Well I can certainly see that you care about the less fortunate in our society./s
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He cares more about them than those celebrating the loss of the sole source of revenue for many of them.
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Expect all of those services to shutter in CA like Uber/Lyft.
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I care about my friend who works for Uber and has been trying to get them to unionize. Although, he has not been working recently after he was attacked by anti-union thugs.
All jobs should pay a living wage, with benefits. Expecting some people to accept being impoverished so that others can have nesting yachts is immoral. In these cases, it turns out that the owners are almost always willing to take a shave, if the workers make them. Because, the demand is still there and if the owners walk, someone willing
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Lol, your friend was not physically attacked by "anti-union thugs". Get a grip or your might end up on /r/thathappened.
And nobody takes people who rattle on about a "living wage" seriously. Better to raise capital gains taxes, and moderately raise income taxes on the upper income brackets (moderately, not your commie bullshit) and pay for reasonable social safety nets. This allows it to become worth it for people to "work a little" at jobs like gig jobs and still have enough for food and shelter. Add in uni
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Educate yourself. And I am sorry, but outside of your fever dreams, most Americans want jobs to pay a living wage.
I can agree that your proposal for increased capital gains taxes and upper bracket income taxes to fund safety nets (possibly a UBI) and universal health care is a good stop gap measure, and something I am working on as well. I am old enough now that pragmatism wins out over idealism.
We've had our spats in the past but given what you've just said I am re-evaluati
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Most Americans want free ponies and all sorts of crazy shit, doesn't make it rational. There is work that people want done which almost anybody can do - so there will always be low paying jobs. The alternative is you pay someone $18 an hour to pick grapes and now grapes are $10 a bundle, wine doubles in price, etc.. It's the most basic inflationary pressure - you greatly increase the supply of money and prices go up.
Low paying jobs are here to stay until we get critical mass behind robotics and other automa
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No, not all jobs are meant to make a living with.
I should pay a living wage to our teen neighborhood baby sitter and benefits?
I should do the same for my lawn boy?
Not every job is meant to make a full living with and a grown adult is expected to know this.
Uber/Lyft is at best a part time side money type job, many jobs are in that category.
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California is saying that it is no different, so they must be treated like employees. If you can't afford to treat them as employees, then you have a bad business model.
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Except you have no idea what you are talking about and are merely saying what you want to be true, as it backs up your case. What can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Consider yourself dismissed (unless you have evidence.)
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Uber drivers have high turnover and, on average, work only part of the year (an average of three months) and part time (an average of 17 hours per week).
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So then what is Uber even complaining about, hmmmmmm? It's not like employees who work less than 30 hours get any benefits anyway, and this law does not change that at all.
Are you just knee-jerk supporting the big corporation over the little guys, and not even thinking this through?
Bye Bye (Score:4)
Please forget to write.
California Hate because California is Great. (Score:2)
California is not perfect, however it is the Wealthiest state in the United States, California State alone economy is 5th largest in the world Above India, and Behind Germany.
I know it is popular for the Conservatives to hate California, Mostly because it tend to vote for Democrats, and it has a lot of Electoral Votes and Representation in the US.
However Uber and Lyft are sacrificing a lot dropping the State. Normally in business you know you should let your biggest customer get away with more nonsense tha
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however it is the Wealthiest state in the United States
Um, nope. In GDP per capita, we aren't even top five among the states. The only reason our collective economy is so large is because our population is so large.
However Uber and Lyft are sacrificing a lot dropping the State....the extra nonsense is just annoying not severely hitting your profits.
What profits? Uber and Lyft already don't make a profit with their independent contractor model. There is no way they will ever make a profit by having to pay full time employees and benefits. They lose nothing by dropping California.
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Your population statement is false. Divide the economy per capita and you'll be way way ahead of the next state, Texas.
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How the heck is Washington DC almost 3x higher than any state?! Given the sheer volume of lawyers and lobbyists - what are they actually "producing"?
Re:California Hate because California is Great. (Score:5, Funny)
Washington DC produces a lot of pork.
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Your population statement is false. Divide the economy per capita and you'll be way way ahead of the next state, Texas.
Texas is not "next". Texas is #25.
California is #7.
The richest state is Maryland (DC is richer but not a state).
List of US States and territories by per-capita income [wikipedia.org]
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I was going by GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The economy of Texas is the second largest in the United States. It has a gross state product of $1.803 trillion (2018)
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Umm - exactly what expenses related to the core business does Uber/Lyft carry? Operating a carpool coordination app is practically free, it certainly doesn't cost them several dollars each to coordinate a single passenger pickup.
If they're not turning a profit it's because they're spending all that income lawyers, lobbyists, and executive salaries - none of whom contribute anything to the customers or drivers to justify that income.
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God, some of the shit I read around here. So let me get this straight, you're convinced that everything Uber (outside the drivers themselves) just materialized as if from the aether and that means that their cut is, I'm double checking here, "almost pure profit"? Jesus Christ, how silly.
Let me guess, you are one of these people also convinced that landlords are evil because they have a house just sitting there and it costs them almost nothing except maintenance of a few thousand a year and yet they charge
Re:California Hate because California is Great. (Score:4, Insightful)
> Mostly because it tend to vote for Democrats
That is a big nope. Conservatives and Republicans don't like California because California spreads it's problems beyond the borders of CA. People move out of CA into neighboring states and bring those policies and problems with them. That is where the bulk of resentment comes from.
There is an exodus from CA because of their policies as demonstrated by this article. As demonstrated by Tesla moving to Texas. As demonstrated by Rogan moving to Texas. As demonstrated by the ~600,000 people leaving a year [sfgate.com].
What happens is that when people move out of CA they buy out the locals and jack up the real-estate of those places that displace the locals and cause problems. Rent and cost of living go up because CA cannot fix their problems of cost of living and wealth disparity. Those people bring CA with them through their vote which changes the local politics. Looking at AZ.
Neighboring red states wouldn't care so much and is why New York, despite being just as democrat as CA, doesn't receive the same hate from those states.
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What happens is that when people move out of CA they buy out the locals and jack up the real-estate of those places that displace the locals and cause problems.
The obvious solution to high housing prices is to build more houses.
Housing in California is unaffordable because they don't allow new construction. If you have the same problem where you live, it is only because you have the same stupid no-growth policy.
"economy like India and Mexico isn't a good thing" (Score:2, Insightful)
Just a tip for my California friends -
Being similar to Mexico and India economically actually isn't a good thing.
You guy say that to try to brag, and we feel sorry for you, wondering if next you'll say "our tap water is like Mexico's too, and almost as good as India".
When the conversation goes like this:
Somebody: California is crappy
You: But it's a BIG piece of shit!
you aren't winning.
It's just not a winning argument, it might be the very best thing you can say about California, but saying it's economy is s
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Just a tip for my California friends - Being similar to Mexico and India economically actually isn't a good thing.
Perhaps we should compare Idaho with Chad? "Our witch burnings are almost as great!"
Are they even companies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are they even companies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uber and Lyft bleed money and exploit their workforce. How are they even companies to begin with?
Let's be clear: Any entity that brings in revenue is a company. An entity that brings in ungodly amounts of revenue but still posts hundreds of millions in losses each quarter is a company that understands the tax codes.
Re:Are they even companies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the US has cross-bred Capitalism with Corporate Facism and created a system so poisonous that it is ultimately self-destructive.
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Except for the lack of cyberware, welcome to Cyberpunk....
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Corporate Fascism would be the government dictating to companies what they must pay and provide in benefits to those they employ, regardless of the cost to those companies. Congratulations on achieving that, by the way.
I think they were counting on this being a threat (Score:2)
That said during a global pandemic that's not really an issue.
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I wonder whether they now need to pay severance to the drivers.
There is no legal requirement to pay severance to either employees or contractors.
Profit (Score:5, Interesting)
"Net losses for Lyft amounted to $437.1 million during the second quarter, compared to $644.2 million in the same period last year."
"The company [uber] was able to narrow its net losses to $1.8 billion, a major improvement from last year when stock-based compensation contributed to a net loss of $5.24 billion."
So both are doing better than last year, but both are still losing millions-billions of dollars every quarter. Maybe they are hoping that if they pull out of California due to labor disputes they can keep justifying to investors why they are having trouble actually making a profit.
Numbers game (Score:3)
I can't decide... (Score:2)
Is this poker or chicken?
They pulled out of Austin, TX -- we were fine (Score:5, Informative)
A few years ago, both companies left Austin, TX. Took a few weeks for Ride|Austin to spin up and take their place. It's still in business as a non-profit that keeps the money local. If these two leave California, they can be quickly replaced. The model for how to do that already exists.
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The latest Form 990 available for the nonprofit "Ride Share Austin" is for the period ending December 2018.
2017 revenue: $26,462,544
2018 revenue: $6,478,713
2017 expenses: $27,743,487
2018 expenses: $6,771,150
Yeah, they're doing great. Significant losses each year and a massive YOY revenue drop. I wonder how bad 2019 and 2020 have been.
$5 million paid in "other fees" for 2018. I didn't look up 2017. Non-profits are a fantastic scam.
https://projects.propublica.or... [propublica.org]
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Yeah, they really need to go back to Lyft and Uber. How profitable were they?
Oh wait....
Re: They pulled out of Austin, TX -- we were fine (Score:3)
That downturn is the point where Uber and Lyft returned to Austin after settling dispute with city.
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A few years ago, both companies left Austin, TX. Took a few weeks for Ride|Austin to spin up and take their place. It's still in business as a non-profit that keeps the money local. If these two leave California, they can be quickly replaced. The model for how to do that already exists.
Not to mention the infestation of scooters in Austin. I was there last year for a wedding and the damn things were everywhere. People were riding them on the road, lane splitting (illegal in Texas), hopping onto the sidewalk for a bit, then jumping back into the road. There were people on scooters weaving in and out between pedestrians and strewn all over the sidewalks downtown as well.
Re: They pulled out of Austin, TX -- we were fine (Score:2)
Wow, that's actually brilliant (Score:2)
Let them pull out... (Score:2)
Lyft and Uber need California more than California needs Lyft and Uber. That's a hollow threat, IMO.
Making room for higher-productivity industries (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the reasons that Scandinavian countries got to be so nice for the people living there was that wage compression pushed out industries with low productivity and raised profits in high productivity industries. Uber and Lyft - when you consider the entire industry, not just the fiction that the companies claim of them being mere software services and not taxi companies - are in low-productivity industries which would be even more unprofitable than they already are if they had to pay reasonable wages.
The economy makes everyone's lives better when it leads to higher productivity. What Uber and Lyft do is make some people's lives better by making other people's lives worse. It's the fake version of higher productivity, where more production of goods and services is achieved only by making people work harder and longer for less.
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You can't stop 'em (Score:2)
I'm not sure if it means much for Uber or Lyft. Last time I checked, they didn't make any money anyway so I bet they'll actually lose less money by exiting the market. If the other states follow up with similar laws these companies may be able to really cut their losses and their stock will skyrocket!
London should force them to pass the knowledge! (Score:4, Insightful)
London should force them to pass the knowledge!
Hmmm (Score:3)
Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
Speak for yourself. Until Uber/Lyft came to Bismarck the incumbent cab companies were utter shit. The only way to get a cab was to call and talk to a bitchy dispatcher. Hour waits to get a cab. Shitty, beat to piss vehicles. Terrible, crabby drivers. Deceptive, excessive pricing.
Not saying Uber/Lyft are perfect, as they have a lot of room for improvement, but the service I get from them and their drivers is immensely superior to my experience with taxi services.
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Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
Taxi drivers have no incentive to improve at the individual level because they are not rated and don't lose future fares because of shoddy or surly service. The taxi business just isn't structured in a way to encourage good customer service.
Also, less than 1/3 of Uber/Lyft riders are using them as an alternative to taxis. Many people use ride-sharing as an alternative to driving their own car, especially in cities where parking is expensive and inconvenient.
I use ride-sharing primarily as an alternative to renting a car when I travel. It saves time and is often cheaper. If Uber and Lyft pull out of California, I will not use a taxi. I will go back to renting cars at the airport.
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Well, the majority of users are not fulfilling business needs.
They are normal people wanting to go door-to-door in a quick and reliable fashion...especially if going out where drinking might be happening.
There is no such public transportation that offers such a thing.
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Depending on where you are, public transit is frequently slower than driving.
Here, the ride from the Mall of America (right next to the airport, big tourist destination) to downtown Minneapolis is 15 minutes in a car, 45 minutes via light rail, and a full hour by bus.
It's also safer to drive, based on the number of assaults we've seen recently on public transit and the complete lack of enforcement.
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I used to live in a city of 900K+ people in a metro area of around 7M. I could walk 25 minutes to the bus station, tour around the route to get to the cal-train station. And ride Cal-Train to SFO for 80 minutes. It used to take long when you had to get off Cal-Train, hike to to another station and ride BART for the last few miles of it. In all it's good to allocate about 2.5 hours to get it all done.
Or I can Uber/Lyft/Taxi in 45 minutes. I guess it boils down to how much your time is worth to you. (Taxis i
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Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good riddance (Score:4, Insightful)
Amen to that. Uber and Lyft are cab compqanies, they want to act as cab companies but don;t want to treat drivers as employees to help feed their greed. Uber and Lyft can go DIAF,,,,
Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
Uber and Lyft are cab compqanies, they want to act as cab companies but don;t want to treat drivers as employees
Most metered taxi cab drivers in California are contractors, not employees.
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they want to act as cab companies but don;t want to treat drivers as employees to help feed their greed.
Many actual cab companies treat their drivers far worse than Uber or Lyft, renting cabs out at very high rates per calendar day. This only way for a driver to make money in that system is to work 48-hour shifts with as little sleep as possible. That's just shit for the dirver, for the passengers, and for the safety of all.
Re:Good riddance (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know. When I was living back in Sweden I never needed to use Uber. The public transport where I lived has a connection every 5 minutes at rush hour and at most every 20 minutes off peak hours (like after 11pm). Taxi companies have quite good apps, reasonable prices and fixed fares to the airport - you always know what the fare will be. In Gothenburg most taxis are high spec Volvos and quite clean inside.
Taxis in the US are a dumpster fire. Dirty, worn out cars, tired drivers and you need to give a tip everywhere, no apps. terrible quality of service. Highly dysfunctional public transport, other than NY subway.
Uber and Lyft in the US are a necessity, filling the void created by misregulation of the taxi industry, geared towards benefiting the taxi companies and screwing the rider, and mismanaged urban planning and public transport. If you don't want Uber or Lyft you would have to change the regulation of the taxi market to enable more competition and force better quality and change urban planning and invest in frequent public transport. Public transport without frequency is next to useless and a waste of money. In many location in the US instead of public transport it would be better to have some sort of hybrid taxi-public transit system, because of the urban planning, rather than waste money on buying buses going once an hour to a place where there isn't even a side walk.
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Public transport without frequency is next to useless and a waste of money.
This. I'd love to take the train/bus to work, but it isn't even close to practical. Driving myself if I leave at 7am I'm all but guaranteed to get there by 8, and I'm generally home by 6:30. If I wanted to take public transport it would go something like this: Drive 10 min to the train station to catch the 6:00 train into town, jump on the 6:45 light rail (or a bus line), transfer busses at least twice, arrive at the bus stop at 7:30, and walk 15 minutes to my office. The process the other way is about
Re:Good riddance (Score:4, Interesting)
Taxis in the US are a dumpster fire. Dirty, worn out cars, tired drivers and you need to give a tip everywhere, no apps. terrible quality of service. Highly dysfunctional public transport, other than NY subway.
I live in a rural/suburban area of the U.S. There is no public transportation and no taxi services that I know of.
One time I ended up stranded without a car. I installed the Uber app and had a ride in 10 minutes. Was very impressed.
Re:Good riddance (Score:4, Interesting)
mismanaged urban planning and public transport.
Or, you know, not everyone lives in the city, or wants to. "Urban planning" is simply not relevant to anywhere I will live, nor is public transport. Cars are the right answer, and if you don't want to drive, or can't, Uber and Lyft are just better than a taxi service.
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It's still "urban planning" when it's not New York City-like. Your city/county government is still planning development, even if they have a mostly hands-off approach.
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You don't get it. I don't live in "urban". The prinicples you imganine are universal aren't. Everything changes with population density.
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A year and a half ago, my car wouldn't start in the dead of winter. AAA couldn't get it started. I didn't know what to do, I had to go pick up a take out. The one taxi I called had a 20 minute wait just to schedule something, much less get picked up.
He said use Uber.
5 minutes later I had it installed with all my info.
5 minutes after that I was being picked up.
Death to the taxi cabals and the politicians who support them, including all the burdensome sophistry.
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Both Lyft/Uber dropping out from the state, makes cities like LA or SF almost unlivable - or at least without a car
LA, I would agree with you. I know folks who moved to LA and lived without a car for a while, and there experience was strange, to say the least.
San Francisco, on the other hand, is still just 49 square miles. I've had situations where a coworker insisted on hiring a car to get somewhere, and all it got us was stuck in traffic for longer than it would have taken to walk. Unless you're referring to the entire Bay Area as "San Francisco"? In which case, this is the United States. People have cars.
Good riddance! (Score:2, Troll)
Uber and Lyft are not businesses they are charities with billions in LOSSES fueled by rubes who think they can find a profit someday. Including many drivers who are not making much money. Sure it can be easier and cheaper; the thing runs at a loss on multiple levels.
Detroit died because they couldn't compete with the 3rd world and didn't provide $$$ incentives like the ones the USA paid to help outsource. Winning in the race to the bottom is simply not winning.
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You should tell those dummies who invested in Amazon the same thing. Amazon spent years being unprofitable as well, those dumb ding-dong dummies!
Investors are banking on self driving cars. I think it's a failed bet to be honest as we're at least 8 years away despite how close we "seem" and I'm not sure they can eek it out that long with human drivers, but it's not completely irrational.
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Some Thoughts from the Left (Score:2)
Typical California trying to undermine economics without thought of consequences. People it's time you learn everything like this has a trade off. California needs sued over this stuff, I am tired of people fleeing that state to live in mine, jacking my cost of living up because it is so expensive over there. Which is largely caused by a hugely off balance economy.
You know what helps promote a healthy economy? Paying employees a decent wage so they have money to spend. Not bleeding everyone dry and sucking all the profits to the top.
It isn't just about people and jobs, it is a balance.You have to keep things operational AND AFFORDABLE to be functional.
You live in a rabidly capitalist country where the goal is NOT to be AFFORDABLE, but to make a PROFIT. Witness the state of your healthcare system. Anyone who proposes reform to make it affordable is immediately painted as a crazy left-wing radical.
I bet most people on here have no idea how much it costs to run a business like that and are just runninig their mouth over things they don't understand, ruining things for people who are perfectly happy with the way things are.
So you are "perfectly happy" that workers are being exploited to support your lifestyle. Bu
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The same reason they force companies to comply with employee-protection rules - to protect employees from excessive exploitation by their employers.
Part of that is establishing exactly what sort of boundaries defines an employee/employer relationship and then enforcing it - otherwise employee protection is pointless, because employers can just call them something else to dodge all the protections.
If Uber, Lyft, etc. don't like the fact that the law classifies their drivers as employees, then they're welcome
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>The same reason they force companies to comply with employee-protection rules
Kind of ironic considering they are a sanctuary state allowing companies to abuse illegal immigrants as cheap labor who don't have to follow any labor protections. Minimum wage? Decent hours with overtime? Safe conditions? That's all for suckers. CA needs cheap lettuce pickers and cheap landscaping from Jorge so that the rich can feel safe in their gated community isolated from the wealth disparity created through their decisio