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US-China Fight Spreads To the Chip Factory (axios.com) 62
The Trump administration's campaign against TikTok gets all the headlines, but the U.S. move last week to place restrictions on Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. (SMIC), China's top chipmaker, could end up making a greater difference. From a report: Semiconductor analysts say SMIC represented China's strongest bid to build a domestic chip industry and bolster its tech independence. Sanctions that cut off its access to advanced manufacturing and testing equipment from the U.S. could seriously set that effort back. The Commerce Department sent a letter Friday to U.S. semiconductor firms telling them they would need licenses to export some kinds of equipment to SMIC because anything they sold the company might be subject to "diversion to a military end use." SMIC denies any relationship with China's military.
"Denies any relationship" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Denies any relationship" (Score:4, Insightful)
American companies -- Microsoft, amazon, Google, Intel, ... -- are all suppliers to the US military which has launched endless wars on foreign countries based on fabricated accusation. So why can't Chinese company not be able to sell to its military?
That's what bullying and hypocrisy are all about.
Re:"Denies any relationship" (Score:4, Insightful)
We create our own IP though, we don't steal it from other countries like China does. So if we send it to China to manufacture, they will steal it and their military will use it.
Sorry but if you want to be a totalitarian government and use our military gear, you have to pay like everyone else.
Re:"Denies any relationship" (Score:5, Interesting)
We create our own IP though, we don't steal it from other countries like China does.
Yeah, right after done most of the stealing [jstor.org] and then [dw.com] some [reuters.com] more [nytimes.com].
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Classic whataboutism. Did your handler teach you that trick? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I encourage everyone to read the sources this person linked to. They do't really make a strong case (except for the well known fact that before we had any international agreements on patent or copyright, we stole IP from England. As they did with us. Two hundred years ago.)
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https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
This is most certainly not 200 years ago.
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From the link: "The German magazine Der Spiegel reported last June that German lawmakers were invited inside the Bad Aibling station in an unusually open attempt by U.S. officials to dispel rumors of economic espionage."
And here's another link: https://abcnews.go.com/Interna... [go.com]
"Echelon is said to be operated worldwide by five principal countries: the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. It is b
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We create our own IP though,
That's what Operation Paperclip was all about... /s
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Doesn't matter above board already working (Score:1)
Why is this rehash of a an old playbook meaningful? It's the Schwinn bicycle story all over:
1) Want to sell product or manufacture in China
2) Agree to give 50% of your business, intellectual property and manufacturing secrets in China to a Chinese company
3) Train your competition
4) Chinese company pops up with state funded loans to compete with you
5) Your non-China operations are undercut by your newly trained competitor
6) You close down, go bankrupt or stop being a leading company in your industry
7) China
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The next story on Slashdot is about Apple allegedly stealing technology from another company. I seem to recall Uber was accused of the same thing.
Aside from some anecdotes I don't see any evidence it's worse in China these days. Certainly doesn't seem to have discouraged foreign companies from having things made there or working with Chinese companies.
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You did not look very hard for evidence then, Chinese IP theft is an epidemic. Sure, "all companies do it" but not all companies are tools of a tyrannical authoritarian country.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/2... [cnbc.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
https://law.stanford.edu/2018/... [stanford.edu]
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The first two are just claims from unreliable sources and the third asks the question and then doesn't answer it.
If that's the best evidence available...
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Sorry, you can't just dismiss those as unreliable sources without some source of your own to back you up. Debate doesn't work that way.
And the third does in fact answer the question.
You don't seem to be arguing in good faith, at all, but here are some more sources:
https://fortune.com/2019/03/01... [fortune.com]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/... [zdnet.com]
https://www.nationalreview.com... [nationalreview.com]
https://qualityinspection.org/... [qualityinspection.org]
https://www.chicagotribune.com... [chicagotribune.com]
https://thediplomat.com/2020/0... [thediplomat.com]
Now, it is your turn to provide sources, or this
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Anyone can provide a bunch of links [google.com]
So is Chinese IP theft getting better or worse?
Most seem to think it's getting better.
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Oh look, the killers aren't stealing as much. Yay!
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A quick bit of googling came up with:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/... [theverge.com]
https://www.tubefilter.com/202... [tubefilter.com]
https://www.foxnews.com/politi... [foxnews.com]
According to that even the US government is involved in IP theft.
I already mentioned the Uber case. I could add examples like how when one service gets popular everyone else copies it, like all the clones of Reddit and Twitter, or was it Facebook that tried to clone Snapchat, I forget...
Steve Jobs famously said that great artists steal, and sure enough many of his products
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China is an authoritarian regime. It's a big deal when they steal things they will use to kill people.
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Masimo will get their day in court, and unlike some other jurisdictions on this planet, if Masimo wins they will benefit from Apple's stalling to gain increased sales, since the damages figures will be higher due to those sales. The US does not have broad programs in place where state-sponsored esp
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Explain to me the how the rank hypocrisy of the Republicans appointing someone to the Supreme Court of the USA at the moment is an independent judiciary. If you think the USA has an independent judiciary you are on the crack pipe again.
Over here in the UK while appointments are techincally done by the Minister of Justice, he has absolutely no hand whatsoever in the selection of the candidates. That my friend is an independent judiciary.
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To clarify the language we use on this side of the Atlantic, "partisan" (your idea of independence) and "independent" as we use it are not the same thing. When people say "independent judiciary" in the US, we mean that in general, the judiciary, congress and executive are independent branches. Judges are not compelled to follow whoever is in power "just because". You might find one that is, but you'll also find plenty that aren't.
That is clear from the context of t
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Cool well this isn't dictatorship and we don't have any walls keeping people in. Fell free to leave, renounce your citizenship and go someplace else.
Is it rules for thee and not for me form us on the national stage - yes. Is that wrong, nope. China is free to develop their own implanters and other technology. Nobody is suggesting some kind of pee-emptive military to strike to stop them from getting 7nm chip technology!
We are just saying, they don't share our values so we are not going to freely give them
Re: "Denies any relationship" (Score:2)
More likely they'll use them to defend against you imposing your warped values on them. The Chinese don't try to impose their values on you, so why does the US keep trying to do so to them? The US is exactly what they claim China is, and what China is not. Anything "bad" has simply a copy of what the US has done, or even an attempt to do it in a "better" way.
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Re: "Denies any relationship" (Score:2)
Wow, what a load of bollocks. Even that article doesn't claim to know who they are, where they come from, or where they're going. Somehow, people make the leap from hooded prisoners to knowing the race, gender and location.
Sorry, but I'm gonna need more than that.
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They are minor delays that will generate major hatreds but will extend US corporate monopolistic prices for a few more quarters and maintain bigger corporate executive bonuses. It is all about money NOW and screw the future, that is someone else's problem, war what ever, who gives a fuck, bigger bonus next quarter. Really stupid stuff, considering how toxic it makes the relationship between the US and China. When they catch up, what kind of mood do you want them in, seriously, wake the fuck up to your stupi
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"SMIC denies any relationship with China's military". They are probably telling the truth, but it doesn't matter. There doesn't have to be any relationship in order for the Chinese military to take what they need, whenever they need it. If it's located in China, it's fair game for the government and the military. That is how totalitarian dictatorships work.
That is how all governments work. The US has the defense production act to compel companies to produce things for "national security, and for other purposes." This isn't just a wartime power, it can be invoked at any time and for a great variety of purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Under the conditions in China there is no such thing as a business with no ties to the military. They tell businesses who they will be doing business with.
There's some of that here too, of course. Plenty in fact. But then, Intel never claimed not to be a defense contractor
One Ring to Rule them All (Score:2)
Private enterprise [freebeacon.com], Military and CCP. All roads lead to Xi.
Long term consequency (Score:5, Insightful)
It may look like a powerful strike now. By cutting off supplies of American semiconductors and other high tech products, he effectively removes the biggest advantage of American hi-tech products -- the first mover advantage [investopedia.com] -- and forces Chinese companies, who otherwise have imported billions of intellectual properties and semiconductor, to develop and use domestic products even if those are inferior. In a few years, their domestic products will then be able to survive in the market, improve and eventually surpass the American competitor. No doubt that Chinese netizens joking that Donald Trump being their comrade [quora.com].
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I'm sure they love it when an American King gets to decide which countries they can sell their products to. It's not even EU bureaucrats in Brussels telling them what to do any more.
It's not hard to see which is the more reliable partner.
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Re: Long term consequency (Score:2)
Yet at the same time, you have US freaking out about hardware level backdoors and such. Does this not broadcast that US uses them ourselves? If so, that is a powerful argument for making the bicycle in house at almost any cost.
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imported billions of intellectual properties and semiconductor
And copy them
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What Actions have Consequences? (Score:3)
(Sarcasm) Who would have thought that a nation like China, with nearly the same area of the United states and access to a similar set of Natural Resources however with 10x the population. Would just sit back and Take the US demands without some other sort of fall back method.
China is a tough customer, they always have been. They are big and they know it. And unlike many of the smaller countries, they can stand up to the United States. They may not be as powerful, but they are powerful enough to give the US a bloody nose.
We are letting perfect be the enemy of progress. Yes China does Suck in a lot of ways, They have the resources to dominate US in all areas, however their government is too controlling to allow for risker actions that causes more progress. As well their Human Rights issues are really bad too, making people afraid to do risks. But they are still big and strong, and we don't necessarily need a fight with them, because otherwise both will lose. China may Lose more, however they will get satisfaction on getting their punches in, and even if the US loses less, we are still losing.
Re:What Actions have Consequences? (Score:5, Insightful)
"We are letting perfect be the enemy of progress."
There is no progress in working with China. We've tried democratizing them through commerce for decades with nothing to show for it. We are playing right into their hands.
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They went from being Communist to being capitalist. That seems like a major achievement.
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It turns out that doesn't matter. The CCP is still in control. Xinjiang and Tibet are still getting raped. Taiwan is next for destruction. China won't be happy until all Chinese are Han Chinese marching in lock step with the CCP, all independent thought will be crushed.
Re: What Actions have Consequences? (Score:2)
Insightful?! Load of bollocks more like.
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You mean they went from communist to the world's largest corporation.
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Just because a small part of their economy is Capitalist means nothing.
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No. That is not true either. They remain a FULLY COMMUNIST NATION.
Just because a small part of their economy is Capitalist means nothing.
I'm sure that must have sounded much more logical in your head...
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They have currency and a class system, they are not communist by definition.
What they are is fascist.
And getting worse.
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You can pretend that it is not, but it still remains a communist system.
And now, China is NOT fascists. Fascism is a far right thing, which china is the exact opposite of
BTW, while ideological communism does not have money, or government, e
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"You can pretend that it is not, but it still remains a communist system."
I can call myself a God, but it won't make me omniscient.
China can call itself communist, but it is not communist by definition.
You can pretend you speak English, but you can only do a shit job.
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It is no different than America declaring oursides to be a 'free economy'. We are not a truly free economy, but we implement most aspects of it.
The word you're looking for is mixed.
America is a mixed economy. Like most of the others.
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The first is about GOVERNING. It allows a small group of ppl to control a large group of ppl.
The second is about an ECONOMY. However, the CCP allowed a SMALL part of the Chinese Economy to become somewhat Capitalist.
The rest remains as a COMMAND economy as dictated by the CCP.
China remains a communist nation that is in a cold war with the west, which the west thought we could win economically.
However, the west is losing because C
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Are you, perchance, a daily express editor? Because you WRITE just like one, randomly CAPITALISING words.
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And SMALL is the abbreviation of what exactly?
Military uses (Score:4, Insightful)
Dirty play, again (Score:2, Troll)
And now the US is stabbing them. So much for the US being the country of laws where a legal business can be safe from capricious and arbitra
The game idiots play (Score:2)