Tech's New Gig Worker Underclass: Customer Service Reps Who Have to Pay to Talk to You (propublica.org) 157
The Pulitzer prize-winning news nonprofit Propublica looks at Arise Virtual Solutions, part of the secretive world of work-at-home customer service companies that help large corporations shed costs at the expense of workers. And thanks to the pandemic, "business is booming."
Arise lines up customer service agents who work from home. It then sells this network of agents to blue-chip corporations. Arise and most of its corporate clients consider preserving the secrecy of this arrangement to be vital... Arise's workers not only don't work for its clients, they also don't officially work for Arise. Like Uber drivers or TaskRabbit gofers, they are independent contractors. To get gigs, they first absorb substantial expense, paying for their own equipment and training, and then have fees deducted from every paycheck for the "use" of Arise's "platform."
Arise has faced, and lost, legal challenges alleging that its arrangements with agents violate federal labor law and cheat workers of what they are rightfully owed. One judge called the arrangement an "elaborate construct" created by Arise to get around labor law. Nevertheless Arise has been able to avoid altering its model in any significant way, aided in part by a 5-4 ruling from the Supreme Court...
With American roots going back to the 1990s, Arise's list of corporate clients, past and present, includes not only Airbnb, Comcast, Instacart and Disney, but also Amazon, Apple and AT&T. There's also Barnes & Noble, eBay, Intuit, Home Depot, Staples, Princess Cruises, Peloton, Signet Jewelers, Virgin Atlantic and Walgreens...
Many agents find that the pay, after the cost of training and fees to Arise, dips well below minimum wage.
Ironically, the historic Marxist song of the international workers movement began with the lyric, "Arise ye workers from your slumbers. Arise ye prisoners of want...."
Arise has faced, and lost, legal challenges alleging that its arrangements with agents violate federal labor law and cheat workers of what they are rightfully owed. One judge called the arrangement an "elaborate construct" created by Arise to get around labor law. Nevertheless Arise has been able to avoid altering its model in any significant way, aided in part by a 5-4 ruling from the Supreme Court...
With American roots going back to the 1990s, Arise's list of corporate clients, past and present, includes not only Airbnb, Comcast, Instacart and Disney, but also Amazon, Apple and AT&T. There's also Barnes & Noble, eBay, Intuit, Home Depot, Staples, Princess Cruises, Peloton, Signet Jewelers, Virgin Atlantic and Walgreens...
Many agents find that the pay, after the cost of training and fees to Arise, dips well below minimum wage.
Ironically, the historic Marxist song of the international workers movement began with the lyric, "Arise ye workers from your slumbers. Arise ye prisoners of want...."
Fix with labor laws when ready (Score:5, Insightful)
The gig economy is a symptom of weak labor laws. Fix it when you've had enough. Yes, it will mean putting some people out of work, but it's not new that it's better for the whole of the economy and society to keep people from working in certain highly exploitative jobs. We've put children out of work before and created the 5-hour workweek.
Just the opposite, sort of (Score:5, Interesting)
I actually take the opposite approach. Well, it'd definitely involve changing up labor laws, but my solution is both simpler and more complicated. It's simpler to explain, more complex to enact.
The simple part is this: Just arrange it so that workers are harder to get. If there's a slight shortage of workers, then workers can demand more. If you can't get a worker by offering crappy options like this, then you're going to have to offer better.
The complex part: Ensuring a shortage of workers is complicated. You need to increase demand some, reduce supply, etc... Lower the retirement age, offer employment alternatives, give out a UBI then increase the amount it pays bit by bit until you get what you want, etc...
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Wouldn't it be easier to just move to France? Unlike your typical Marxist utopia, we won't shoot you at the border for trying to leave.
Re:Just the opposite, sort of (Score:4, Insightful)
The complex part: Ensuring a shortage of workers is complicated.
I think we are managing that bit—it's called COVID-19.
And lest that sound insensitive, well historically it was the plague that put an end to feudalism in Europe when the few labourers left alive discovered that the lord next door was willing to offer better conditions, despite it being illegal for the serfs to leave.
Yeah, that still sounds harsh. Maybe we should rediscover our humanity instead.
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It wasn't that simple. That's when wage laws first appeared, in the form of maximum wages and led to a century of peasant revolts where the score at the end was the peasants losing every revolt, though with improvements for them occasionally. Better trained and disciplined troops for the win.
Like the industrial revolution, things did get better, after multiple generations for many.
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It's interesting to speculate [salon.com] on the effects of COVID-19, although it is not nearly so deadly as Yersinia Pestis
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It took until the 17th century for feudalism to die, when autocratic rulers like Philip II of Spain and Louis XIV of France abrogated several privileges of the local nobility to themselves.
Philip is illustrative: the Dutch Revolt, while often mocked for typical Dutch greediness leading to an unwillingness to pay taxes, actually had an enormous amount of support from the local nobility who had massive problems with the king directly imposing taxes instead of going through the feudal chain. Using an Imperial
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I suspect that there will be more demand overall for these workers, and so the opportunity for other players who will offer such workers a slightly better deal in order to get them. I.e. a real market.
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"The lord next door was offering better conditions"?
Did you ever actually take history in junior high or high school?
ProTips: Enclosure (England), French Revolution (France).
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Well, yeah, but when most people hear "fix labor laws" they think of things like increasing the minimum wage, requiring more benefits, lowering the work week, mandating more breaks, etc...
Meanwhile, I propose stuff like lowering payroll taxes to make employees a touch cheaper, actually streamlining labor laws, and only increasing minimum wage if, for example, the company isn't providing healthcare coverage, in order to make it more even with companies that do provide it. That would include part time worker
Re:Just the opposite, sort of (Score:5, Insightful)
and only increasing minimum wage if, for example, the company isn't providing healthcare coverage
That in itself is the symptom of another issue. Healthcare should be universal, not dependent on your employer or private funding.
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How about universal health care, so it is not an employment cost, you know deduct 1% from everyone's salary to pay for health care (you will expand the health industry providing more services for more people and you can get rid of the VA system entirely, public health takes care of that). The six hour work day, as in four lots of six four days a week and three lots of eight three days a week. Share the work don't feed the greed. Education for life, keep them learning, so they make sounder democratic decisio
Re:Just the opposite, sort of (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just the opposite, sort of (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, when you elect business people and have a free for all financing elections, you get politicians who are pro-business rather then pro-labour.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Intellectual labor is fungible due to globalism. If someone in India is willing to do the job for just a bowl of rice, that's what the will be paid. A westerner can't compete in that market.
We can, we do and this realization hits the large companies over the head roughly every 6 or 7 years. In the end you cannot outsource customer service jobs to people who have drastically different moral and social values from your customers anymore than you can outsource computer work to a person who has never owned a PC or a mechanic that has never driven a car. India specifically is a beautiful subcontinent that does just fine all on it's own. Exploiting them for slave labor only helps the one person who
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If you increase costs, things will get more expensive. Less capital will be put out to fund things because of the higher risk and reduced reward to investors.
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And more money will go into automation. Jobs that can be taken off the market will be. Of course automation takes time, so cause and effect will not be easily connected, but the end effect will be devastating because it will be easier to automate industries with less innovation and more stagnant tech - the kind you will get with less investment.
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The gig economy is a symptom of weak labor laws. Fix it when you've had enough. Yes, it will mean putting some people out of work,
Isn't fixing labor laws by putting some people out of work kind of like curing the disease by killing the patient?
Depends on who's out of work, and the consequences (Score:2)
Isn't fixing labor laws by putting some people out of work kind of like curing the disease by killing the patient?
Well, that depends. If you take my proposal, you'd be encouraging *some* people to voluntarily leave the workcenter. An early example would be getting children out of the workforce, younger teens, with older teens mostly doing it to gain some job experience(and extra spending money). Mostly because the parents no longer need to have them working.
Other possibilities would be more generous parental leave, one parent staying home to help take care of children or older parents. Have older people retire a bi
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No amount of regulation is going to fix it. We've had gig workers before the high tech boom, door-to-door sales of vacuums (remember Kirby?), knives, carpet cleaners, etc, etc. We've had Multi-Level Marketing around since long ago too. What you see today is just more visible because information flows so much faster. Regulation is not going to solve the problem, take a look at pay-day-loans industry. Regulators made them remove the interest rate and fees from the fine print and make sure everyone knows they
Re:Fix with labor laws when ready (Score:4, Insightful)
You are... delusional. What we see today is much more visible because there's so much more of it.
No, corporate facist nutjobs want the illusion of "freedom of choice" because that let's them blame the abused for being abused. The rest of us want the abusers punished.
Yes, we need education. We need corporate facists to learn the reality of the world - there's plenty of well educated people in these gigs jobs because our economy is fucked up. (Due in large part to corporate facists.) And, as a side note note, I get so tired of the hypocrisy of corporate facists. They bleat about the need for "better education" - but they vote against it every chance they get.
Not ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
>"Ironically, the historic Marxist"
There is nothing ironic about seeing positive Marxist references on Slashdot.
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What you're missing however is that the "Left" in the USA is really the "Centre-right" anywhere else in the world.
You don't have a left-wing and a right-wing party, you have a centre-right party and an extreme, fundamentalist-right party.
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The "Right" in the US doesn't exist anywhere else in the world, either.
Well, I'd argue the Israeli Likuds come close at least.
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Re:Not ironic (Score:5, Informative)
Ah, yes, freedom: only possible where the 1% (actually the 0.1%) have an outsized influence on politics and the economy and they are able to skew the economy so that most of the working class have no ability to negotiate wages and many need to work multiple jobs to survive.
Yes, there is so much freedom in a country of minimum (and below) wage slaves.
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"Ah, yes, freedom: only possible where the 1% (actually the 0.1%) have an outsized influence on politics and the economy and they are able to skew the economy so that most of the working class have no ability to negotiate wages and many need to work multiple jobs to survive."
I feel sorry for you if that's the way you feel. While I don't deny that the "1%" probably has more influence than others, I will say that becoming one of the "1%" is totally possible for anyone in the United States with hard work and e
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Re:Not ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
>"I wish Marxism would stand aside for more rational forms of communism"
There *is* no "rational" form of communism. It simply doesn't exist and simply doesn't work. It isn't compatible with human nature. It always leads to horrible corruption, suppression of rights, and lack of productivity. When people are told that no matter how hard they try, the fruits of their labor will go to the State, which in turn is the source of all power and control, there is no more motivation and no more freedom.
>"Marx's words have long been discredited, but he was only one of many."
Yes, who have also been discredited. Or are you one of those who still persist in saying "well, the right KIND of Marxism/Communism/Socialism just hasn't been tried yet", despite the dozens of failed examples throughout history?
No form of government or economy is perfect. But what we have the USA is the least worst, demonstratively so.
Re:Not ironic (Score:5, Informative)
No form of government or economy is perfect. But what we have the USA is the least worst, demonstratively[sic, you mean demonstrably] so.
Human Poverty Index [wikipedia.org]
Human Development Index [wikipedia.org]
OECDE Better Life Index [wikipedia.org]
Where to be Born index [wikipedia.org]
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>"It doesn't need to, there's nothing about communism that says the state must be in control."
It is there by definition. "Commune" ism. The only way you can enforce such a notion in a nation of any large size is with an extremely powerful government that is in control of all important aspects of life. Ultimately, it falls apart, or turns into an oppressive totalitarianism which all but the "special" people in control suffer on what little productivity remains.
>"although most of them were smaller s
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If you can bring together a small group of very like-minded people, it can sometimes work.
The same can be said of democracy. It doesn't always work, and sometimes it fails dramatically. If the people aren't committed to the democracy and sufficiently educated, it will fail.
It does not work without violence (Score:4, Insightful)
you say "there's nothing about communism that says the state must be in control" and while that MIGHT be literally true, it is in fact false when any attempt at implementation is made. When you tell hard working and/or creative people that they must hand over a large portion of what they have produced so it can be re-distributed to others who either cannot produce or, more than likely, are unwilling to produce (because they'd rather sleep-in, or do drugs, go to the beach, or just could not be bothered to study hard in school, etc.) you will need FORCE to overcome their justified resistance. In the realm of human existence, such force is wielded by governments (ie "the state") unless you are proposing a government-free land of total anarchy with roving packs of violent bandits.
So, as a matter of rather basic logic combined with reality, yes, EVERYTHING about communism says the state must be in control. Such a state, once in control, cannot allow an alternate political party because that would present the possibility of undoing communism, so these states always go one-party-rule totalitarian.
I doubt many would characterize Sparta as a model of communism, and I cannot think of any modern person who would today want to live like a Spartan. America's original European colonists attempted a communist-style existence upon arriving in the new world, and even with a strictly-religious people and a strong urge to charity they could not make it work - the industrious began to feel abused and the lazy took advantage growing even more lazy and demanding even more freebies. The colonists nearly died of starvation before they abandoned the experiment and switched to the model of individuals owning what they produced and bartering with each other.
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Impossible (Score:3)
As FA Hayek pointed out, you cannot get to a totalitarian kleptocracy without the immoral act of theft on an industrial scale, and moral people will neither engage in that theft, nor tolerate it, so you need to employ thugs to get there. If you want thugs to get you there, you have to give them power and look the other way as they abuse that power. Such thugs NEVER surrender such power. Therefore, you have no path to your immanetized eschaton.
"Oooh, oooh, utopia is just over there! All we have to do is [ins
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"One of the first uses of the word in its modern sense is in a letter sent by Victor d'Hupay to Restif de la Bretonne around 1785, in which d'Hupay describes himself as an auteur communiste ("communist author")"
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I can haz readin? I can readz Democratz wordzes? Possible, or n0?
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he political left in America is Marxist/Socialist/Totalitarian, they just don't want "anyone one voting for them to know it until after" the down fall of the Republic.
As opposed to the political right in America which is Fascist/Socialist/Totalitarian, they just don't want "anyone one [sic] voting for them to know it until after" the down fall of the Republic.
Going to be interesting to see who the left appoints(after the Biden win) as the First America President appointed to office by "the party".
Considerin
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the political left in America is Marxist/Socialist/Totalitarian...
completely unironically.
The rest of it is just word salad. There is no way that idiot has any clue about anything Marx wrote.
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>"As opposed to the political right in America which is Fascist/Socialist/Totalitarian"
That is truly a bizarre statement. The political right is about as far from fascism, socialism, and totalitarianism as you can get. They generally believe primarily in 1) strong personal liberty, 2) free economic systems, and 3) small governmental control. Those three things are completely and utterly incompatible with fascism, socialism, and totalitarianism.
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That is truly a bizarre statement. The political right is about as far from fascism, socialism, and totalitarianism as you can get. They generally believe primarily in 1) strong personal liberty, 2) free economic systems, and 3) small governmental control. Those three things are completely and utterly incompatible with fascism, socialism, and totalitarianism.
That might be the political right by some theoretical definition, but that's not the political right in America.
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I'll give you 1 out of 3. Sure, the right in this country used to care about personal liberty, but then the whole heartily support searching your cell phones, warrentless wire taps, patriot acts. So we can't say strong personal liberty is supported by either party. Let's look at 2. Well, there is a system of strong regulation in this country and no one is trying to change it. Cannabis for example is still federally illegal despite republicans being in office. That is hurting an entire industry that is just
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
um, you keep using those words... (Score:2)
Fascist, Socialist, and Totalitarian - I do not think they mean what you think they mean, with apologies to Inigo Montoya.
In America, even in the Trump era which is as far to the right as we have been in a long time, nobody has gone to jail or been executed for saying bad things about the leader. No news outlet has been shut down even though they are nearly all over 90% negative on Trump on a daily basis. Not a single person actor, actress, or comedian who has enacted a mock murder or execution of Trump has
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- Left and right in the USA are nearly equally to blame for the eroding of American democratic institutions, but right now the right are on a crusade to take them apart. I mean, how can you say these things about the left when a sitting right wing president is talking about not respecting the vote and making up, with no evidence, voter fraud in order to later denounce the result
Re:Not ironic (Score:4, Interesting)
- Link 1: actual fraud, in favour of the GOP, was easily detected
- Link 2: dropped mail, probably nothing to do with the fact that it contained ballots, turned out not to anyway
- Link 3: Registration fraud to meet a quota by someone who needed money, not actually transferred to vote fraud because it wasn't anything to do with politics, just someone who wanted to meet the quota for cash
- Link 4: ballot collection. I've not heard of it before, but it appears to just be allowing ballots to be collected and delivered by a third party. I can see the concern that it could be a route into fraud, but the concerns around it seem to be more about how its encouraged rather than anyone deliberately changing votes or voting in another person's place. And as its used in rural places with sparser populations it could swing things. But, there's a big gap between "we went out and encouraged people to get their vote in by collecting, and we only did it for people we knew would vote for us" and actual fraud. After all, don't the republican's only win every time because of people not voting?
Yeah, so when you say not convincing, it's really not convincing. I think only link 1 is worth much consideration, maybe have a double check process for mail in votes? A seal once envelope so tampering is obvious?
My country has mail in voting, I used it once when overseas. But I was able to return the ballot via the Internet. That seems more secure against opportunistic tampering, and less against systematic, but you'd think systematic would be easier to detect.
Re:Not ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
All systems have fraud. Systemic and wide spread fraud is another thing entirely.
This is like saying putting your money in a bank is stupid because banks are robbed. Sure some banks are robbed, but the advantages are larger than the disadvantages. I'll take a few isolated cases of election fraud to expand the voices of citizens in the country to shape it. Even if those voices do not agree with me.
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So they're going to continue the Republican policies about the important stuff? Makes sense after watching Clinton and Obama and there Republican light policies
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Re:Not ironic (Score:4, Insightful)
Wasn't Ford appointed by the party? Of course today you'd call Nixon a leftist and Marxist.
EditorDavid is far removed from the people being e (Score:2)
parts of this look like an pyramid scheme with all (Score:3)
parts of this look like an pyramid scheme with all middle men in there
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parts of this look like an pyramid scheme with all middle men in there
After reading the article, which is quite long, I'll have to agree that the entire scheme is very much like that, right down to trying to get stay at home moms involved.
Hey, this is immoral enough that ... (Score:3)
You would probably earn more at McDonalds (Score:2)
This reminds me of all the MLM "schemes" I've heard about.
If you are paying your employer to work, you're doing it completely wrong.
Time for more unions! (Score:2)
Time for more unions!
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Time for more unions!
How do you unionize people that aren't employees?
Can you unionize independent contractors? These people aren't even allowed to join class action lawsuits, surely they can't join a union.
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Yes (Score:2)
... you form one, and people join it. Even if it's just you and 16 other people like in this case
Japan: Uber Eats 'platformers' launch union to negotiate contract terms & improve conditions, including worker safety & wage review [japantimes.co.jp]
...an Uber Eats spokeswoman told Kyodo News, "We will sincerely address delivery partners' needs while always seeking a better way for them."...
Of course, it's easier done in a culture strong on social order and "take care of each other" mentality, as modern Japan.
Re: Time for more unions! (Score:2)
I am confused (Score:4, Informative)
They upheld (in 2019) in New Prime Inc. v. Oliveira that gig economy workers are not subject to arbitration clauses.
Two states have moved to classify gig workers as employees (CA and PA) this past year, none of them cited a problem based on some ruling of the supreme court. If anything this is establishing precedent the other way around that state courts are finding gig workers to be employees and therefore would have to be treated as such without major changes even then manditory training and such would end up having to be compensated for.
Does anyone know the ruling the author is referring to?
employees have to be paid for wait time / reinvest (Score:2)
employees have to be paid for wait time / reinvestment for things they need to buy, uniform costs and there stuff.
Not a new problem, just updated for current times (Score:5, Insightful)
Gig worked always existed. Remember door to door vacuum, knife, and other such sales? Those sales people had to pay for their own training, buy their own demonstration kits, pay their own benefits, transportation, etc. I once went to one such training, selling vacuums door to door, and was promptly asked to leave after first break after I did a quick back-of-the-napkin calculation how we'd all be making less than minimum wage after considering just time and gasoline costs, nevermind car depreciation, insurance, benefits, etc.
The gig workers of today is just a new, high tech version of the old gig workers, just like Craigslist is the new version of classifieds.
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Work as a sport (Score:3)
Re:Work as a sport (Score:4, Interesting)
When you did those back of the envelope calculations you plugged in the average sales.
Didn't have to, the trainer tried to tell us how even if we don't sell anything we make good money. I don't remember the exact numbers (it was 30 years ago), but it was something along the line of "we pay you $20 per 30 minute sales presentation, therefore you're making $40 per hour!", but when I added to it the commute time, gas cost, presentation setup and cleanup, the number instantly dropped to ~$6/hr. It probably didn't help that I did that out loud in the middle of class, or that when they showed us the "have the owner vacuum with their vacuum, then vacuum using ours, take the filter and flick it into a light (part of sales package) to show dust coming off of" I asked the trainer to flick a brand new filter into the light and same dust came off (he tried 2 or 3 more, including one from a brand new pack of filters - same outcome).
However some will make higher sales and some will make lower. Most people who go into such jobs think they can beat the average. its the same as sports. Not everyone will become a millionaire NFL player but millions play high school football. They all think they can beat the odds which is why they play. Its a winner take all model which is cheaper than payinng every participant a decent wage.
I absolutely agree with you there btw. I don't remember whether I did or did not ask about the typical sales, I definitely would have had I not been asked to leave. The sales pitch I heard though was "you don't have to sell anything to have a well paid job, everything you sell is a bonus!".
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An hourly wage, that's rare. Most of them are fixed commission for increasing costs. After a few months of employment, one is losing money. The shiniest snake-oil is direct marketing: That's Amway plus 200 more corporations selling a pyramid scheme that is legal because even those with thousands of recruits must 'work' one hour a month.
Hey Editor David..... We know where this road goes (Score:4, Funny)
Ironically, the historic Marxist song of the international workers movement began with the lyric, "Arise ye workers from your slumbers. Arise ye prisoners of want....",
When the Marxists get in power, not only is there far more 'want', but there's a lot of straight-up murder too. Not sure how you missed the 20th century entirely in your history classes.
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Supply and Demand (Score:3)
If workers had more or better skills they wouldn't have to settle for shit jobs. This starts with a good education.
This can't happen where major education decisions are made by bureaucrats and not parents.
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If everybody has better skills, then somebody still has to the shit jobs, but now they are overqualified, so that makes it OK then.
Get rid of the exploitative employment practices, then even if you no qualifications, you won't be treated like a slave.
Exotic Dancers (Score:3)
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It's actually the reason (other than the obvious) that economists are fascinated by that occupation.
It's the *only* one we've found that has both positive and negative wages at the same workplace.
During off-peak hours, or for lower end establishments, they may pay a stripper to take the stage, while at peak hours for an expensive place, the strippers can pay *significant* stage fees--which still leave them significantly more than the tips and payment they receive off-peak.
doc hawk, economist at large
Entrepreneurs aren't employees nor contractors (Score:2)
These aren't employees, fine. But they really aren't contractors either. Contractors don't pay for training and tools from the same supplier that provides customers.
Entrepreneurs do that though. I've been one for a few decades now. Entrepreneurs make decisions about how to use their suppliers, and which customers/markets they can serve profitably. Entrepreneurs turn down (quote-out) projects that are simply poor fits, and spend additional effort enhancing internal proficiency for projects that do make
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Sure. That's the definition of capitalism. But they aren't recruits. That's my point.
"Start your own business! Be your own boss! Set your own hours!"
Entrepreneurs get to choose which 100 hours they work every week.
If someone thinks that they can be their own boss, and that being the boss is less work, gets to find out really quick that being the boss does indeed mean that you can work less -- and that when you do, you earn less too.
Sounds like more cancerous bullshit to me (Score:3)
The Supreme Court decision is embarrassing (Score:2, Insightful)
The FAA explicitly allows binding arbitration while the NLRA gives vague rights which suggest but don't mention collective action in the form of class action lawsuits. Congress should amend the FAA if they want to give unions the ability to initiate class action lawsuits as an inalienable right.
The dissenting opinion from the democrats is outright embarrasing. It doesn't even try to start from the law but instead immediately goes for emotional arguments. WTF?
Do you really want the Supreme Court to be some u
The word you're looking for is: (Score:2)
Telemarketer.
Asking the right questions? (Score:3)
I made a similar post on one of the uber stories but Iâ(TM)ll do it here again because I think people are asking the wrong question. Letâ(TM)s set the clock back to pre-covid-19. The Gig.economy already existed, but at the same time the employment rate, even measures like U6 were quite low. So it is at least notionally possible most of these workers could have found other employment with more normal labor protections, even if said employment was making coffee or frying hamburgers. It is also true that many people continue to work on Uber/taksrabbit/arise etc for fairly long periods, so it is not ALL just I need something to do this week while I apply for other work.
So why do so many people appear to be choosing to work for these platforms despite what so many perceive as abusive behavior or cynical attempts to avoid labor regulations? Why would someone want to make less than minimum wage, when they could get at least that elsewhere doing unskilled work? Clearly there is something labor suppliers (workers) find valuable here.
There is a labor market that isnâ(TM)t interested in a living wage, there are high school and college kids with summer vacation who do just want make enough for some gasoline to go cruising with their mates and buy some movie tickets, but donâ(TM)t plan to rent their own apartment and will be eating dinner at mommy and daddyâ(TM)s table. They are looking for very short term limited hours. I would loved something like taskrabbit 25 years ago. That would been great, hang out with your buddies, phone chirps â" âoe Cool I am going cut this dudes lawn, see you all in few hours.â Makes way more sense than getting a job dealing with some ASSistant-manager jacking with the schedule every other day for that worker. That market exists, I have personally been a participant, so I know it exists; but I also donâ(TM)t think for a second it is moving the needles as far as total numbers of Gig.employees.
So before we try to âfixâ(TM) the labor laws I think we should understand no just the folks that are less willing but the ones who seem to be very willing and even happy with these argements before we try to update legislation. Clearly the situation is not as simple as
âoethe platforms donâ(TM)t want comply with our traditional employer/employee template therefore: badâ
Get him a dictionary so he can look up "irony" (Score:2)
Whatâ(TM)s amazing is (Score:3)
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Re: Not forced to work (Score:2)
Re: Not forced to work (Score:3)
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Re:Not forced to work (Score:5, Insightful)
That's right!
And thanks to our social safety net, they can continue to survive with their socialized healthcare, and their Universal Basic Income!
Oh wait, never mind. Wrong country. They can quit and starve to death. Fuck them for being born in a fucking cage match country called America.
Re: Not forced to work (Score:4, Informative)
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Much like if you don't like being robbed at gunpoint just refuse to hand your wallet over. What could go wrong?
undocumented workers and open borders (Score:2)
well, in THEORY they could... (Score:2)
except, of course, that vast swaths of the public live in places locked-down by governors of the same political party as the tech titans who love having access to cheap work-from-home gig workers...
Their current presidential candidate brags he will keep the entire nation on lockdown (something a president might not have the power to actually do, and which Trump has not done (all current lockdowns are on orders of various governors)) as long as some unnamed scientist/scientists tell him to. I sure hope those
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Go you your medicine cabinet, look for your pill container, and make sure that you've taken everything in the first compartment marked "S."
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