Trump Cracks Down on Visas. Indian Firms May Benefit. (nytimes.com) 169
As the president clashes with the courts, some companies and investors say tougher limits on temporary work visas will help push jobs overseas. From a report: When President Trump suspended a raft of visa programs in June, including temporary permits for highly technical foreign workers known as H-1B visas, he portrayed the order as a victory for the American work force. Further overhauls were in the works, he said weeks later, "so that no American worker is replaced ever again." The order is now in front of the courts, after a judge on Thursday blocked the order and ruled that Mr. Trump had overstepped his authority. The move will allow some companies, like Microsoft and Exxon Mobil, to bring temporary workers into the United States again. The issue will now go to an appeals court, which may rule in favor of Mr. Trump's sweeping order. But the fate of the program still remains in doubt. The Department of Homeland Security has submitted a new regulation for federal review that would toughen H-1B eligibility and impose new obligations on the companies trying to bring in foreign workers. The uncertainty has thrown the plans of major companies in doubt and has already disrupted the lives of thousands of foreign workers, particularly those from India, who claim more than two-thirds of the H-1B visas issued each year.
The confusion might all be in vain, however. Experts say restrictions will do little to accomplish their stated goal of encouraging companies to hire Americans instead of workers from abroad. In fact, limits on H-1B visas may have the unintended effect of spurring American companies to shift even more work abroad. Already, Indian outsourcing companies are working to cast the new restrictions as an opportunity to do just that. "In America, there is a genius mix of homegrown and transplanted talent. The high level of global competition gives America its tech edge," said Sandeep Kishore, the chief executive officer of Zensar Technologies, an Indian firm that employs more than 9,500 people globally. More than 400 are on work visas in Zensar's offices in the United States, he said, but more work could drift to India if companies cannot hire who they want. The United States "risks giving up its edge," Mr. Kishore said. "If we can't bring this talent into the U.S., we'll place them in our offices overseas."
The confusion might all be in vain, however. Experts say restrictions will do little to accomplish their stated goal of encouraging companies to hire Americans instead of workers from abroad. In fact, limits on H-1B visas may have the unintended effect of spurring American companies to shift even more work abroad. Already, Indian outsourcing companies are working to cast the new restrictions as an opportunity to do just that. "In America, there is a genius mix of homegrown and transplanted talent. The high level of global competition gives America its tech edge," said Sandeep Kishore, the chief executive officer of Zensar Technologies, an Indian firm that employs more than 9,500 people globally. More than 400 are on work visas in Zensar's offices in the United States, he said, but more work could drift to India if companies cannot hire who they want. The United States "risks giving up its edge," Mr. Kishore said. "If we can't bring this talent into the U.S., we'll place them in our offices overseas."
lack of qualified candidates? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there a lack of qualified candidates or do companies just want to pay less?
When you make speaking Telugu a job requirement its no wonder you have a hard time hiring in the US. A Telugu requirement does not help with the job where the vast majority of the work is completed in English. Requiring Telugu is simply a way to require a cheaper H-1B hire and not pay a full American salary. Companies want cheap workers they can control and that is it.
make the minwage 80K+COL and OT at 80+ hours (Score:3)
make the minwage 80K+COL and OT at 60+ hours
Re:make the minwage 80K+COL and OT at 80+ hours (Score:5, Interesting)
Easier way:
H1B visas are currently handed out by lottery. Instead, rank by salary and hand them out high->low.
If the business really can't find that worker in the US, they're going to have to pay a premium anyway. If businesses just wanted to be cheap, they're at the end of the line.
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The issue isn't the H1B itself, it's the approval process. Somehow computer programming became a "specialty skill". If used properly, it brings only the best of the best
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Really? What percent of US tech jobs ask for Telugu as a requirement?
I have never seen one. I can imagine you have seen an outlier.
All I see for the search term are translator jobs.
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:4, Insightful)
Its just one example of how to game the system, its not the only way. And yes, I've seen that on an IBM job listing.
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Is there a lack of qualified candidates.."
Yes.
".. or do companies just want to pay less?"
Yes.
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's both.
You really can't look at these things in isolation.
Let's just give one thought experiment here.
In India, if you're 'solid'. The tech industry in general is on par with say being a doctor. I don't even mean you're a genius tech person. Just a really solid tech person. You also have the potential to go overseas to earn Western Dollars and make a lot of money to come back without any complexity of getting certified as you would a doctor.
Compare that to a Western person (USA, Canada, Europe...). You're just not in the same league as being a doctor as a tech person. You really have to be at one of the top employers like Google, MS, Amazon... and make your way up high to be comparable to a doctor.
In general, in the West, being a tech worker is comparable to being other middle class work (teacher, electrician, police officer...). That's largely the case for myself. In Toronto, Canada, those middle class jobs (teacher, electrician, police, tech worker...) occupy that range of 70k to 120k. Heck, Im a well paid tech worker here, and after pension and stuff, a teacher/police officer probably makes more than me with a more guaranteed living. I'm not complaining about this, just trying to show where you're drawing your talent from.
In India, being a tech worker is comparable to being another professional (doctor, lawyer...)
So understand where you're drawing your talent from. In the West right now, your tech workers are being drawn from the middle class. In India, your tech workers are still drawing from the upper class professional. This is course not to say, all Indian tech workers are from that upper professional class... But they still draw from there. Notice how so many upper executives and CEOs of American tech firms are now Indian. They've been drawing from India's best and brightest. That's not a diversity project. It's because they really are better than the talent being drawn from the West.
I entered the tech industry because I love it, but I also joined at a time when the tech bubble burst (2000s) half way through my university. During the bubble and earlier it drew the upper professional class of the West. After, it was no longer seen as that great career and became a middle class option. Most of my peers who had the potential to be great have moved on from tech to other areas. Even myself, I moved on from R&D tech to more business.
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So understand where you're drawing your talent from. In the West right now, your tech workers are being drawn from the middle class. In India, your tech workers are still drawing from the upper class professional. This is course not to say, all Indian tech workers are from that upper professional class... But they still draw from there. Notice how so many upper executives and CEOs of American tech firms are now Indian. They've been drawing from India's best and brightest. That's not a diversity project. It's because they really are better than the talent being drawn from the West.
That hasn't been my experience at all. Many if not most of the H1B workers I've seen are quite mediocre.
Meanwhile the H1B program requires hiring tech specialists that can't be sourced locally.
The reality is local talent is available, just not as cheaply as indentured servants.
Yeah I'm not buying that (Score:5, Insightful)
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I take it you've not had to work closely with H1-B's or contract workers from over there for much time at all have you?
Some are ok at rote coding, if you give very detailed and specific instructions and requirements, but I found that most of that crew did not have the capability to innovate and come up with solutions on their own.
I've often at
Re: lack of qualified candidates? (Score:2)
I thought i put in that disclaimer. Not all h1bs or contract workers are going to be best of breed. Due to the pay, ur going to get a lot of fluff or people just in it for money. But ur also drawing a lot if that upper professional class.
U can as i say just look at University classes. A lot of the tech university classes became less western people. Is this some kind if grand conspiracy or just a reality if which people tech is drawing in. Yes enthusiasts will always do their thing, but u don't build an indu
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:5, Interesting)
Some companies dodge it, mostly Indian body shopping companies, that add unrelated duties and create a chimera that is impossible to meet, and the govt tries to find such things, but it is hard.
Easy thing to do would be to stop Indian diploma mill degrees being used to compete against degrees from MIT and Caltech. Stop this, demand accredited university degree from USA will be considered first before considering foreign degrees. Demand foreign degree awarding institutions to apply for and get accredited and evaluated by some US accreditation agency. Make it difficult to import substandard graduates. Rest of the things will correct itself.
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:4)
Right, companies and applicants are gaming the system. The system is not working as intended, it needs changes.
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and the govt tries to find such things, but it is hard.
Wouldn't making it be required that the H1-B holder meets all required experience be an easy way to weed them out?
It'd make it much easier to find companies that do things like require 10 years experience in Windows Server 2018.
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A B Tech, computer science from an Indian diploma mill is not the same as the BS Computer Science from an accredited american university. BS Comp Sci grads get good jobs and they wont apply for these crappy salary IT jobs from Accenture or Infosys or Satyam Computers or Tata Consultancy Services. The H1Bs come brandishing a bachelor degree in computer science. And they work in back end of we
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So in other words, we'll just destroy what thin credibility accreditation has now.
I imagine a land rush to create some new tech-specific accreditation process for sale to the highest Indian bidders. The cost will be split between the Indian body shops and the US employers.
Technology accreditation is a shit-show in the US now, driven by some combination of experience and widely varying vendor certifications which are mostly driven by the vendor sales process. This would not make it any better.
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Better question: What do Trump's orders say exactly? Do they say "you must prove you have a genuine need for language skills, not including because you already offshored a loads of jobs" or something else?
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:5, Informative)
> What do Trump's orders say exactly?
The first half of the document doesn't have any legal effect. It talks about how H1B workers bring their families with them, and their spouse also competes for American jobs, etc.
Here's the part that actually does something, as opposed to preamble and such:
--
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections [list of laws].
Section 1. Continuation of Proclamation 10014. (a) Section 4 of Proclamation 10014 is amended to read as follows:
âoeSec. 4. Termination. This proclamation shall expire on December 31, 2020, and may be continued as necessary. Within 30 days of June 24, 2020, and every 60 days thereafter while this proclamation is in effect, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Labor, recommend any modifications as may be necessary.â
(b) This section shall be effective immediately.
Sec. 2. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States of any alien seeking entry pursuant to any of the following nonimmigrant visas is hereby suspended and limited, subject to section 3 of this proclamation:
(a) an H-1B or H-2B visa, and any alien accompanying or following to join such alien;
(b) a J visa, to the extent the alien is participating in an intern, trainee, teacher, camp counselor, au pair, or summer work travel program, and any alien accompanying or following to join such alien; and
(c) an L visa, and any alien accompanying or following to join such alien.
Sec. 3. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry. (a) The suspension and limitation on entry pursuant to section 2 of this proclamation shall apply only to any alien who:
(i) is outside the United States on the effective date of this proclamation;
(ii) does not have a nonimmigrant visa that is valid on the effective date of this proclamation; and
(iii) does not have an official travel document other than a visa (such as a transportation letter, an appropriate boarding foil, or an advance parole document) that is valid on the effective date of this proclamation or issued on any date thereafter that permits him or her to travel to the United States and seek entry or admission.
(b) The suspension and limitation on entry pursuant to section 2 of this proclamation shall not apply to:
(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;
(ii) any alien who is the spouse or child, as defined in section 101(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1101(b)(1)), of a United States citizen;
(iii) any alien seeking to enter the United States to provide temporary labor or services essential to the United States food supply chain; and
(iv) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees.
[Ordera to the the labor secretary and others to review regulations and recommend improvements to protect American jobs from companies like Infosys and Wipro.]
--
Here's the whole thing
https://www.whitehouse.gov/pre... [whitehouse.gov]
The first half is talking about why the order is issued. The second half is the actual order.
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So it's just a temporary pause, it's not trying to fix the actual issue.
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Reading that it does nothing about fake language requirements specifically. The only decent idea in there is requiring them to pay guest workers more, but I can see that backfiring if not carefully worded.
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This happens to be United States law. I'm not sure where you're from, but in the US permanent law is made by the Congress.
The president has authority under this particular law to, when unusual conditions require it, put a hold on for up to 60 days. This president has put a 60-day hold in repeatedly since March or so, when covid created the necessary "unusual conditions".
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PS house Republicans have introduced legislation to fix it permanently.
The House schedule is controlled by a lady named Pelosi whose top fiancers are Disney, Google, and Microsoft. She has decided she doesn't want to allow the issue to come up for debate.
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I forgot two. Here are the top five paying for Ms. Pelosi's campaign and PAC:
1 University of California
2 Walt Disney Co
3 Alphabet Inc
4 Microsoft Corp
5 Comcast Corp
Apparently her constituents, Google, Microsoft, and Comcast, don't want any talk of H1B reform, so there won't be any.
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Sure but it's not fixing the issue - fake language requirements.
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IMHO the issue is rather larger than a few listings that had a bogus language requirement. IMHO in my opinion, blocking new H1Bs until Congress gets their shit together does indeed fix the problem of most H1B being fraudulent in one way or another.
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What evidence is there that "most" of these visas are fraudulent?
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> It's November - are there any H1B visas left to award this year? Seems like something that is easy to do right before an election making no practical difference,
That order, issued in June, extends and adjusts his order from earlier. That's why it says it takes effect June 24, 2020, because it was issued prior to that date.
Also btw today is October 5th. It is not in fact November. June very much was not November.
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It looks like this year the lotteries for H1B specifically were March 28th and August 14th, for 2021 H1Bs.
Those picked on Match 28th 2020, for 2021 H1B would have had to enter by June 22, 2020 in order to be exempt from the June OE. Then on October 2nd, a few days ago, a court blocked that OE.
The practical effect of this is that people who got a 2021 H1B but we're already here got to stay. New H1Bs would be denied entry unless the department makes an exception for the person (somebody like Linus Torvalds,
Re:lack of qualified candidates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there a lack of qualified candidates or do companies just want to pay less?
Neither. Companies want workers that they have leverage over. More than just leverage over income. So having a workforce that you can say "Don't act up, or you're getting deported back to India" is a massive boon for them.
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I can't fill a 150-200k Java programmer position! (Score:3)
Cracks down on Visa? (Score:2)
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logic fail (Score:3, Interesting)
> In America, there is a genius mix of homegrown and transplanted talent. The high level of global competition gives America its tech edge
> The United States "risks giving up its edge," Mr. Kishore said. "If we can't bring this talent into the U.S., we'll place them in our offices overseas."
According to the article's own logic anything that changes the 'genius mix' of talent will cause the industry to lose its edge, that would include omitting either the 'homegrown' or the 'transplanted' talent. Good luck with your plan to just move the talent to India.
How did that Indian moon landing go? That is a perfect picture of the talent that India will be bringing home.
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> How did that Indian moon landing go? That is a perfect picture of the talent that India will be bringing home.
NASA success rate is 98%
ISRO success rate in 93%
Lower, but hardly horrible. I'd imagine that is a similar picture - much lower cost, somewhat lower quality, as one would expect.
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Is there a stat showing "landings per dollar"?
Re:logic fail (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you realize we wouldn't have landed on the moon without imported (German) talent? Basically every technology involves contributions from people all over the world, immigrated or not. And by the way, China's space program is entirely because we deported Chinese talent. Look up Qian Xuesen.
Also, because of your ignorance of technology you seem to think that technology is fully homegrown. That's just BS, name just about any technology and you will find that there had to be foreigners or immigrants who pioneered important aspects of it if you looked at its history.
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That German talent you speak of did not come here on H-1B visas and work for less than the average American. We are the melting pot for a reason, you're right. I'm not against immigration. I'm against a system that is gamed constantly and displaces qualified Americans from American jobs. Show me evidence of H-1B holders having the kind of influence you are talking about. The only thing that H-1B holders influence is the bottom line because they are cheaper, and they can't just quit.
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Well I don't know the visa status that many innovators came to the US on, and neither do you. I searched online for a few minutes and there wasn't anything useful on how any of the immigrant innovator names that I googled got their green cards. I have heard anecdotally in the past that the H1B is a very popular method, so for all we know a lot of immigrants came on that and then got their green card after that. I know some people get an H1B .. work in the US .. and then apply for a green card -- that happen
H1Bs benefit US most (Score:3, Insightful)
Good luck with your plan to just move the talent to India.
How did that Indian moon landing go? That is a perfect picture of the talent that India will be bringing home.
Lots of businesses were started in the USA by immigrants from India and all over the place. Even if they weren't the marquee name, many startups are fueled with Indian talent. I am a 20 year veteran of the software industry. The worst engineers I ever worked for came from India and some of the best too.
Working with H1B immigrants who suck at their job irritates me probably more than you. It is a daily fact about my dayjob and career. I have some on my team who should be fired, but my H1B boss keeps
sorry, written by a white guy! :) (Score:2)
Do the needful and fuck off back to your shithole, Ramesh. You should be begging the US on bended knee to send them back, they would do so much better there according to your theory.
I'm white and born in a red state, buddy. I've lived in the USA my entire life, even used to vote Republican. Fuck off.
You stumbled on a truth there, though, buddy. They would be better off over there and so would their entire community...I don't want them to be better off, I want America to be better off. This is selfishness and economic self-interest, not compassion, diversity, or whatever liberal cause irks people like you. It is in my economic self interest to have talented foreigners live and w
Claims to be against illegal immigration (Score:3)
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Foreign worker location (Score:2)
Seems like the problem is where the foreign workers will work. If they're granted visas, they'll work for sub-standard wages here. If not, they'll work for sub-standard wages in other countries.
The big difference is that those sub-standard wages don't go as far here in the US as they do in other countries.
Indian thieves and scammers (Score:2)
Indian telemarketers and other scammers are getting their databases by stealing them from U.S. companies. Outsourcing and visa holders are opportunities for crime, and are the cause of most scams now. Cut the chicken's head off.
And so (Score:3)
We lost the Visa for one Indian worker. She now heads a little department of 4 back in India doing the same work and more.
It's tough when the unemployment rate for software is somewhere under 1%. That's lower than churn in the normal course of business.
If he wants them to not be replaced... (Score:3)
... maybe he should start with cracking down on the industry that deliberately breeds the dumbest possible customers o maximize profit, and start giving Americans all the education they can get.
It's not "free education". It's an investement in America that pays off bigger than any investement fund ever could!
Unless of course, you don't care about America but only about yourself. In which case America, by definition, is your enemy, dear Ferengi.
Canada FTW! (Score:5, Interesting)
"Trump Cracks Down on Visas. Indian Firms May Benefit."
May.
Canada will.
Every time the border is tightened the talent pool moves here instead. Keep electing freaks, please.
Re:Canada FTW! (Score:4, Insightful)
> Keep electing freaks, please.
Most of the freaks did not win the popular vote, yet we get them anyway due to out-dated laws that give some locations an out-sized influence. It becomes all about those locations. Throw in gerrymandering and other man-made issues and you end up with the mess that we have. The worst and not-so-obvious to most people issue with gerrymandering is how judges are appointed, conservatives have been really good about stacking the court from the bottom up.
Re:Canada FTW! (Score:5, Insightful)
Your own link speaks to the issues that I am referring to:
"Most democratic nations on earth elect their presidents by direct popular vote, but that was never the American system and still is not. We use the so-called “Electoral College” system to choose our president, which today means that 538 Electors drawn from the states and the District of Columbia speak for the rest of us. This is a complex and non-uniform state-based process, designed—like the U.S. Senate, which was originally composed of Members chosen by state legislatures, not the people—to filter public opinion through a “deliberative” intermediate institution. But the Electoral College has produced recurring political controversy over the centuries and also experienced significant constitutional, legislative, and political upheaval and revision. Today few people would consider the Electoral College to be a “deliberative” body as it was once imagined because the Electors are appointed mechanistically to winners according to vote totals in the states. Although the Electors meet in their state capitals at a December date set by Congress to cast their ballots, in practice they simply follow the election returns and never conduct substantive discussion or debate about who should be president. Still, the Electors do possess the legal prerogative to vote as they wish, and under extraordinary circumstances they might exercise that prerogative to change the expected outcome dictated by popular election returns."
Perhaps the term "out-dated" wasn't perfect, I suppose what I mean is "needs improvement". What we have is not working as intended. I don't think the intention of the Constitution was that it is a perfect document that is immutable, but that it creates a framework within which it can be challenged and changed. The entire point of government by and for the people is to strive for improvement. And no, I didn't call the Constitution out-dated, I called the way we are using the Electoral College out-dated.
I don't think it matters to me in the US (Score:2)
In America it's every man for himself, dog eat dog. We don't have Universal Healthcare, we got a single 1 time stimulus payment, nearly all the money earmarked for small businesses when to Trump's buddies, etc, etc.
In short, it doesn't matter if the talent pool goes north because as a rank and file worker I don't benefit from it.
That's the problem with immigration here today. The benefits aren't spr
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> In Canada you have a raft of social services, meaning you get real benefits from that talent pool.
Yes, but also... the weather. So you know, 50:50.
Of course, I'm old and I have seen the difference climate change has made even in my adulthood. We're *almost* at the point where a snowblower is no longer a thing. The for-sale web sites are filled with them. Snow tires too. On the downside, we had an average of 3 to 5 snow days a year when I was a kid, now there's been two in five years. So again, 50:50.
Newton strikes again (Score:2)
Blame that apple for falling on his head but every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Supreme Dear Leader 'theRealDonald' really does not have a clue.
If you can vote, vote to get him out of the White House come January.
Not a surprise, just another hoop to jump through (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not really a fan of the H-1B program...not because I'm xenophobic or whatever, but because it's not being used as intended. I'd be fine if there was a true lack of domestic talent that this visa is being touted as being used for, but that's not what's happening. It's being used mainly by the Indian body shops for one of two things...rotating people into a "train your replacement" team for offshoring engagements where they send an H-1B in to collect data from the soon-to-be-fired IT team at a customer -- or in situations where the customer demands someone be on-site. Tech companies use them too, but in this capacity it's just naked salary compression...tech companies want people they can abuse and pay peanuts too. Even new domestic grads are too expensive, so they go this route. I've seen this first-hand from trying to hire someone from a body shop our company is required to recruit from...the recruiters say stuff to me like "Oh, you definitely want to go the H-1B route...these people will do anything for you, work all hours, whatever you want, and they're far cheaper than a domestic hire!"
It makes it harder for those of us who really do work hard and contribute a lot to differentiate ourselves from a sea of cheap, exploitable people. Executives have no idea how things get done; they just see the lower numbers on a spreadsheet and can't comprehend the difference. So, don't act shocked when those execs just say, "Oh, we can't have our cheap labor? We'll just buy it from India, no problem!" There's no easy solution to this -- either you come up with some loophole that's too expensive to jump through compared with just biting the bullet and hiring someone at the prevaling wage...or things continue as they are.
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> H1B only took off because the Greencard system discriminates against Indians and Chinese.
It was a conspiracy run by Lorne Green to favor Canadians. Why do you think it's called a Green Card?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285470/characters/nm0001296
p.s. don't watch it, it's terrible even for the CBC.
Kick'em where it counts (Score:2)
Corporations should have to pay tariffs based on how much of their labor is sourced abroad and that tariff should hurt.
You mean those tax cuts didn't work? (Score:5, Insightful)
And here we were told cutting taxes on multi-billion dollar companies would raise the wages of its employees via trickle down economics.
You mean to tell me these same corporations will continue to move jobs overseas so they don't have to raise the salaries of its American employees but instead want cheap labor? I'm shocked! I mean, look at the con artist and how he moved the manufacturing of his name brand clothes out of China and back to the U.S. where Americans are paid a decent wage for their labors. A true leader showing the way.
we'll place them in our offices overseas (Score:3)
Yes, and give them 1/5 of the salary in SV for the same work.
NYT (Score:2)
Translation (Score:3)
These jobs are only for Indians, no matter where they live. Whites need not apply.
Push jobs overseas? Put a tax on it! (Score:3, Insightful)
We should penalize people who send work out of the country, not reward them with benefits.
Drop H1Bs and replace (Score:2)
Keep them overseas and let them move. (Score:3)
The H1B program is an almost complete disaster. It is supposedly about very talented workers but it's really about importing brain sweat shops. Keep them overseas where it's all clear what is happening. Workers that get these visas can't quit and be hired at other companies willing to pay more; no market competition. That should tell you all you need to know... There is more market competition when they stay in their home countries. And it doesn't confuse the American numbers when it comes to employment. It's all a shell game.
American companies can see the writing on the wall. It you shift you offices overseas then the managers there will clone your business and compete with you. Stupid. Saving in the short run for helping drive your company out of business. Nearsighted companies deserve to die.
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Inept Response (Score:2, Insightful)
American President is not a monarch, and cannot ban things like Spring Break.
Our healthcare system did rather well despite the fears of it being "overwhelmed" by the high number of infected — and it being "for profit" [nytimes.com] — our case-fatality rate is only 2.81% so far, less than Germany's 3.18%, for example, where the beloved Merkel is deemed to be doing an awesome job, or Canada's 5.71%...
If you want to find "inept response", look
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Worst Case complications:
Getting the disease EARLY
High density living with mass transit
A significant population of anti-science anti-intellectual selfish children
Misinformation from government and "news"
Government choosing to delay, withhold, and act incompetently (as a cover for just being as sadistic as they can get away with.... Like how Reagan handled AIDS... if it kills people you don't like, drag your feet. that is what really was going on.)
--
The Allies were Anti-fascist
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ok boomer.
You should get checked... here is some help:
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.
The healthcare system didn't get overwhelmed (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure where you got your numbers, it's not from that article. But by all accounts [vox.com] we are far worse, and that's with Europe getting hit first and hardest.
I notice you picked out Democratic run states, the ones Trump attacks the hardest. You also didn't mention that they're high travel, high population density areas that got hit early in the pandemic.
Yes, they had missteps. And yeah, they should have learned from Europe. Maybe if we had more boots on the ground in Europe and China they could have.
Re:Inept Response (Score:5, Insightful)
Case-fatality rate is kind of a bad metric to use. The US has 25 times the number of cases that Germany has and 45 times the number of cases that Canada has. The cases per million population (US is 23060, Germany is 3608, Canada is 4440) or deaths per million population (US 648, Germany 115, 251Canada) are much better metrics for a fair comparison.
Heck the Whitehouse along has more cases (Score:2)
Re:Inept Response (Score:5, Insightful)
Astounding (Score:2, Insightful)
Somehow it always comes to this: when flaws of Democratic politicians — or the entire Democratic Party doctrine — are exposed, someone will come out to denounce both sides...
Somehow, this rarely (if ever) comes up, when the Republicans are pounded...
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"Somehow, this rarely (if ever) comes up, when the Republicans are pounded..."
That is just hilarious. It's completely the opposite of what you said. After the right wing has been working the media for the past few decades, the supposedly "liberal" mainstream media always tries to find some Democratic example whenever the Republicans do anything wrong. The fact that you can't see this is pathetic.
They screamed because it was closing the barn door (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump didn't close boarders to Europe, which is where his experts were telling him the virus was coming from.
Closing traffic to China was a transparent political move. Worse it had very clear racist overtones. I have Asian friends and they weren't just sheltering in place for the violence, they were getting harassed. Some still are.
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What we need is people who can use the English language adequately.
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[Trump] repatriated a large chunk of powers that Obama concentrated under presidency either de facto or de jure back to the states.
What chunk of powers did he return to the states?
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You mean the rules set by California for within California? And then adopted by several other states without the Feds requiring it?
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EPA is a federal agency, setting federal rules, rather than state agency setting state rules. While TDS sufferers are marking that one as troll as usual, his example is in fact correct out of context.
It's also incorrect in context. EPA does have inherent authority to mandate environmental rules for all states. This was not one of many of Obama's overreaches as much as simply policymaking that actually was in the purview of federal government.
Most of Obama's overreaches were him not having ability to compel
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Trump "defers" issues to state level for the simple reason that it's precisely the kind of abdication of decision making his administration doesn't want to make, while simultaneously attempting to keep the right to claim credit on the (imaginary) success of how he's handled it.
He repatriated a large chunk of powers
Jesus Christ I can only assume you've killed off all your brain cells with copious amounts of alcohol.
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Wrongheaded thinking, the jobs, security and economy of the people of the USA can be the exclusive domain of the USA.
Riddle me this, where do the Indian telemarketers get the contact info of people taking prescriptions, possession of products and services.
Answer, that is stolen by Indians who are granted visas or outsourcing. Simple as that. A country of thieves with no way to prosecute them, that's India.
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Wrongheaded thinking, the jobs, security and economy of the people of the USA can be the exclusive domain of the USA.
Maybe back in 1950 but not in the real world today, you can try and protect "buggy whip makers" if you like but we're a connected planet now. Even if you go full protectionist on goods it is very hard to effectively discourage outsourcing. If you say to a company, you must pay X tax on all employees abroad that help you provide services to Americans it would be a nightmare to enforce. There will inevitably be corporate structures etc to get around it, where there's a $ to be saved there's a will and a way.
Riddle me this, where do the Indian telemarketers get the contact info of people taking prescriptions, possession of products and services..
E
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You blather nonsense, the USA can pick and chose its partners. We don't need to pick one that is the cause of 80% of the scams, that continuously buys phone numbers to steal from us, that has workers that steal our data with no fear of prosecution, e.g. India.
You are wrong, we do have laws about stealing data. You can go to federal prison for doing so, and we have proper relationship with many countries to extend that legal framework to their people working with our data, but India is a 3rd world shit ho
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You blather nonsense, the USA can pick and chose its partners. We don't need to pick one that is the cause of 80% of the scams, that continuously buys phone numbers to steal from us, that has workers that steal our data with no fear of prosecution, e.g. India.
It's not the USA doing the picking in case you didn't notice the US is not a communist command economy with state run enterprises. It is individual corporations that are doing it, you can steer them with laws and regulation sure, but there doesn't seem to be much appetite for further regulation on data in the US at this time.
You are wrong, we do have laws about stealing data. You can go to federal prison for doing so, and we have proper relationship with many countries to extend that legal framework to their people working with our data, but India is a 3rd world shit hole full of thieves. We don't need them.
I think you misread what I said when I said data protection laws which is about sharing legally acquired data which the US does not have vs corporate espionage law which is indeed about
It's not hard at all (Score:3)
He's had 4 years to do it and hasn't.
He's also had 4 years to undo the Obama era executive order that allows the spouses of H1-Bs to work in this country. Again, stroke of a pen. Hasn't done it.
Finally I can tell you right now that every tech company I know of has had no issues getting as many H1-Bs as they want under
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So, trade schools teaching programming techniques?
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Honestly, that will fix a lot of it, but that will introduce another problem.
Right now, if you ask a manager what the difference between a construction worker and a building architect is, they'll have a fairly good idea of the difference.
Both are needed. Both are important.
But when it comes to programming, managers tend not to understand quite as well the difference between designing a system and coding it.
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And I'd prefer new Americans to be those, who move here because they find America's ideas appealing, or, at least, to escape tangible persecution back home — not because they simply found a great job here...
The immigration system is designed for exactly the opposite of this. You build a skill based immigration system and that's what you get, people in search of a good job. Frankly, if you look at the history of the USA the Pilgrims were the exception rather than the rule, 99% of America's founders didn't come because of idealism, it was mostly economic migration.
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Re:Seems fair (Score:5, Insightful)