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United States Businesses Government Transportation Politics

Uber and Lyft Will Push For More Laws Classifying Drivers as Independent Contractors (msn.com) 73

Posted by EditorDavid from the golden-rulers dept.
"Uber helped wage a $200 million war in California to keep drivers as contractors," notes the Washington Post — successfully funding a ballot proposition that overrides a high-stakes 2019 law which insisted drivers be considered employees.

"But now that the ballot measure has passed, the company says its work isn't done..."

The ride-hailing giant's CEO said Thursday that Uber is looking to expand the model to other states, joining an executive from rival Lyft who said something similar earlier this week... "Going forward, you'll see us more loudly advocating for...laws like Prop 22," Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi said, adding later: "We were the first to come forward with this [independent contractor]-plus model, the idea that drivers deserve flexibility plus benefits. We want to have a dialogue with governments [in] other states..."

Uber and Lyft's stocks have rallied this week, logging percentage gains in the double digits as investors reacted to the news that they would not have to make drivers employees.
The proposition promises independent contractors 120% of the minimum wage plus contributions to healthcare equivalent to what other employers currently provide (or half that amount for employees averaging less than 25 hours a week but more than 15). But the Post points out that "Unlike full employment, however, benefits are calculated based on a driver's active time, negating the potential hours per week they spend waiting for a fare while logged onto the apps..."

Uber's chief financial officer told the Post that the new benefits "will result in probably a 5% increase to cover the incremental [costs]," including benefits, adding "We do believe that it'll be manageable."

The Post adds that labor advocates "fiercely opposed Proposition 22, saying it was a transparent attempt to snatch newly enshrined employment rights from workers."
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Uber and Lyft Will Push For More Laws Classifying Drivers as Independent Contractors More

Uber and Lyft Will Push For More Laws Classifying Drivers as Independent Contractors

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  • The worst thing to come out of this cycle (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:42PM (#60697224)
    is that Uber was able to just plain buy a law. That enough money spent can get the public on your side even when they're not actually.

    I'm reminded again of an advert I saw once with a bunch of old folks sitting around a kitchen table talking about something that frightened them. How worrisome it was and how bad things would be. The advert ended with an impassioned plea to vote yes on propsition such and such.

    Turns out prop such and such was a prop that banned net metering, where the local power company had to pay you for your excess solar power that you generated, at least until your bill was effectively zero. Net metering was overwhelmingly popular, but the law still passed...

    I haven't looked at any prop 22 ads but I'll wager they're like this. I know Uber sent scary messages to all their drivers because the story was covered here on /.

    And make no mistake, once Uber has this codified in law they'll come for us to. Imagine how much less you'd have to pay your IT guy if you paid per server rebooted or per line of code written.

    Before long they'll be paying us in company script. You load 16k, what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt...

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:08PM (#60697346)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • If you want to kill Uber's use of 1099s and do it -fairly and right-, just make it unlawful for a company to specify a payment or rate at which they're willing to contract work under 1099. Require the dollars offer to come from the 1099 contractor performing the work. A company can accept or reject the offer but cannot specify a rate at which they would pay a 1099. And then apply this rule across the board to all work done under 1099.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dlang ( 6158732 )
      This election showed that even outspending your opponent 30:1 and having the press on your side isn't enough to get everything through, even here in California prop 16 (allowing the government to take race into account for hiring/education) went down hard in spite of having these advantages
      • I went my whole life up until about 6 years ago being told that discrimination is wrong, how can people expect me to vote in favor of it?

        • The idea behind it (not that I agree with it) is that you must discriminate in order to not discriminate. Or something. Basically all of the political elite in California are arguing that the original law was passed during a more conservative period in California's history, and they were hoping that they could have discrimination again in this more progressive era.

    • Re:The worst thing to come out of this cycle (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Berkyjay ( 1225604 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @09:49PM (#60697858)

      This just shows how most Americans don't really care about how their fellow Americans are treated. They just want those cheap rides, they don't care one lick for the person driving them.

      • If people don't like working for Uber they can QUIT just as anyone else can quit. They don't have to work for them and you make it seem like they don't have a say
    • and they got it right for net metering. Uber drivers are contractors, they set their hours,provide their own tools and don't work at a company space. That makes them contractors. If you go into an office, work the company hours and use the company desk, chair and computers then you are an employee. It's about degree of control.

      Net metering supporters were just plain stupid. The utility would love to buy your power if you provided it at the correct frequency and you corrected for phase. However the
    • You want to know me better Then do not wait and copy the link and call me. Just be =>> http://gg.gg/mwvsl [gg.gg]

    • >is that Uber was able to just plain buy a law. That enough money spent can get the public on your side even when they're not actually.

      You can't buy a law. People still have to vote for it. Money can push the needle a little bit, but Californians overwhelmingly supported Prop 22 (by a 17 point margin in a very blue state) because the state legislature really screwed up with the passage of AB5, which improperly and unethically classifies a number of independent contractors as employees. It put the entire

  • Driving for them pays poorly (Score:3)

    by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:47PM (#60697250)

    ..but the answer is not to impose more bureaucracy.
    The problem is not employee vs contractor, it's how bad they treat their contractors. Maybe the contractors need to form a union

    I like the freedom of being a contractor and don't want the government telling me I can't do it

    • I'm not sure that would really work. I mean unlike plumber's unions or electrician's unions, these people don't really have a skill that everyone else doesn't have. I mean they could form one, but I don't really think it would have any leverage.

      • I'm not sure that would really work. I mean unlike plumber's unions or electrician's unions, these people don't really have a skill that everyone else doesn't have. I mean they could form one, but I don't really think it would have any leverage.

        It's not whether they have a skill, it's whether they have leverage over their employers to negotiate a just and equitable agreement. You're right in the sense that having unique skills would provide leverage -- it would make them scarce and valuable. But could they find leverage some other way? Maybe, with public support. Unfortunately the passing of prop 22 makes that seem unlikely, but who knows -- maybe a newly-formed union of rideshare-drivers could succeed at winning over the public. If the drivers fo

    • Re:Driving for them pays poorly (Score:4, Informative)

      by I'mjusthere ( 6916492 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:29PM (#60697420)

      ..but the answer is not to impose more bureaucracy. The problem is not employee vs contractor, it's how bad they treat their contractors. Maybe the contractors need to form a union

      I like the freedom of being a contractor and don't want the government telling me I can't do it

      I get these people in my part-time tax business. I spend time with them explaining how they are being ripped off. Long story short: all they are doing is cashing out the wear and tear on their car. They THINK they are making money until they have to buy tires, oil changes, timing belts, clutches, transmissions, insurance, etc, etc, etc ...

      And none of that considers their TIME.

      Take your time driving for these companies, multiply it by $50/hour (actually more to get a decent pay), add $0.58/mile (car expenses) driving for those assholes and THAT is what you should be paid as an independent contractor! Because you have to pay Social Security tax, Medicare tax, income tax (quarterly), and any other local taxes. And let us not forget paying for your insurance and and every other expense that a business person needs to attend to.

      These ride sharing companies are having their cake and eating it too because they exploit their workers.

      Excuse me - EMPLOYEES!

      • Are you simply proposing a $50 minimum wage, and that it is unethical to provide an employee less than that?

        Or are you saying that there is something special about driving a car that makes it worth $50 an hour plus miles?

        Are you heavily invested in a startup autonomous delivery service, and want humans to price themselves way out past what the market will realistically support?

      • You are exaggerating. $0.75/mile driven (not necessarily paid mile), plus about $25/hour is adequate for this type of job— less if it is in addition to a job with benefits.

      • These ride sharing companies are having their cake and eating it too because they exploit their workers.

        Its a free country if people don't like working for them THEY CAN JUST QUIT!!! Nothing is stopping them or forcing them to work for a ride share.

      • > Long story short: all they are doing is cashing out the wear and tear on their car.

        Sounds like you've never done taxes.

        Mileage expenses for wear and tear and gas are all business expenses and come right back off their taxes.

        >Take your time driving for these companies, multiply it by $50/hour (actually more to get a decent pay), add $0.58/mile (car expenses) driving for those assholes and THAT is what you should be paid as an independent contractor!

        $50/hour for unskilled labor? Sure, buddy.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by doom ( 14564 )

      It isn't just that it pays them poorly, it's that they've got expenses that aren't being covered and a lot of them don't seem to be aware of it. Driving uber isn't "making money" it's extracting money from the value of your vehicle.

      The pendulum has swung way back towards ideas like minimum wage laws, and the idea that Uber is different Because Internet is ridiculous.

    • If someone is registered as a driver for both Lyft and Uber and has both apps live, but is waiting, which company should pay? which company should set the hours? etc. But this is just a practical matter, the bigger question is why the government should prohibit people from freelancing if they want to? look at how many journalism jobs AB 5 has eliminated. The answer is to eliminate AB 5, not just keep making exceptions to it.
      • AB5 cost probably least 95-99% of freelance journalists their contract's. That is what would happened with prop 22 failing. Most of those drivers would got a pink slip while few that made money for company would got kept on and rest would have to apply for a job.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Jastiv ( 958017 )
      Id be a contractor too if I didn't have to fill out all those stupid 1099s. Maybe contractors need to quit taking jobs with sucky pay and do something that pays more money instead of trying to make a living out of something that pays 2 cents.

    • As much as I feel for Uber and Lyft drivers, I fear their days are numbered. The ride-share companies simply need meatbags who supply their own cars and time in the driver's seat, until self-driving cars become ubiquitous. Then they will transition to a driverless fleet.

      I think the way to beat Uber and Lyft at their own game might be to make car-sharing (not ride-sharing) a commodity. Kind of an eBay/craigslist/airbnb model for micro-leasing your self-driving vehicle when you don't need it. Or perhaps Uber/

  • "Drunk on power after getting everything they could possibly dream for a mere $200 million, execs declare 'we gotta do this shit again!'"
  • Multi-bullion megacorps purchase their right to enrich themselves by exploiting the need of the poor to survive. They do so while raving about what workers "deserve". I have no words.
    • Yeah my brain exploded when Uber sent an email with the subject line 'Drivers deserve better'. So why not treat them better?

  • If they want their drivers to be I.C.'s.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:07PM (#60697340) Journal

    ... then let them pick their own payment rate.

    Also, allow the customer to select how much they are willing to pay over and above Uber's base rate.

    Cheap customers may have to wait a long time for a driver to be available for that rate, and drivers who want more than what most customers are willing to pay will not get many fares to choose from.

    Any "race to the bottom" can only last so long as supply exceeds demand.

  • Uber and Lyft drivers are stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by I'mjusthere ( 6916492 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:13PM (#60697356)
    Fist of all, they have no idea what it means to be an independent contractor. They want benefits and want to control their schedule.

    Uber and Lyft lied via their propaganda ($200 million worth) that if they had to make their employees legally employees, then they would lose their ability to set their own schedules. That is a total lie.

    You can have employees and still let them set their schedules.

    I do taxes part-time and NO Uber or Lyft driver makes money. NONE. All they are doing is cashing out the wear-and-tear of their cars. These ride share companies are a rip-off for the drivers. And the commissions they charge is highway robbery.

    What I tell people is that if you want to tip your Uber/Lyft/Scam-ride-share-companys driver, use cash. Hand them a $5/$10 bill. DO NOT USE THE APP!!

    This whole GIG economy is just one big rip-off and exploitation of us working people. DO NOT DO IT!!

    • I have been picked up by drivers with both Lyft and Uber stickers on the windows. How many employers let their employees work for their competition?

      • When I was younger I worked for several companies that made it very clear that I could work for anyone else I wanted so long as it didn't interfere with my duties and I didn't give away secrets. It's actually the law in most places, but some corps are nice enough to be clear that they obey the law. Usually small businesses.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Jastiv ( 958017 )

      This whole GIG economy is just one big rip-off and exploitation of us working people. DO NOT DO IT!!

      Part of the problem is drivers don't take into account how much wear and tear on their car this is going to be with all those miles.

      Maybe we can pair up with these companies to end the IRS so we don't have to fill out 1099's anymore.

      WORK IS SLAVERY

      END THE IRS

    • I want to argue with you, but the more people you talk out of driving the more money I make. So, carry on please.

  • is when you let corporates push their private law onto unsuspecting customers and contractors.

  • Gov. vs Uber/Lyft "contractors" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:35PM (#60697458)

    Gov. contractors:

    1. - Use their own tools
    2. - Set their own hours
    3. - Set their own rate

    Uber/Lyft "contractors":

    1. - Use their own tools
    2. - Set their own hours
    3. - Uber/Lyft sets their rate

  • I already said it was the worst outcome [slashdot.org]. I didn't consider the fact that my fellow Californians have effectively chummed the water. Out come the sharks. Thanks again, guys.

  • uber = burger flipper (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 )
    This isn't all that big a deal any more. There used to be a disconnect between the reality of being an Uber driver and the story they were selling. Well, the story has fallen apart.

    Everyone knows that Uber drivers make slightly above minimum wage. The public knows it. The drivers know it. Everyone knows it. Signing up to be an Uber driver is the same as applying for a job at your local McDonalds.

    So, why classify them as something different? As long as it's transparent and above the legal minimum wa
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Well, why not) I like Uber's policy like other companies. They only provide the opportunity to work in a taxi, so this is quite normal. Monitoring of employees is generally at their best) I also installed a solution for my employees from Worktime affiliate program [worktime.com] and no one had any questions. I must know what they do during the working day) And yes, they also work remotely for me and are essentially the same contractors as Uber taxi drivers.

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