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Youtube Social Networks United States Politics

YouTube Criticized For Not Removing Post-Election Misinformation (nbcnews.com) 183

"YouTube is facing growing criticism for allowing election misinformation after it decided not to remove or individually fact-check videos that spread unfounded conspiracy theories alleging voter fraud," reports NBC News: While all internet platforms are struggling to contain the volume of misinformation since voting ended last week — and all have been criticized to some degree by researchers for their handling of the situation — YouTube has staked out a position that is less aggressive than its social media competitors, most notably Facebook and Twitter.

YouTube said before the election that it wouldn't allow videos that encourage "interference in the democratic process," but now, as state officials are working to certify vote tallies, the company said it wants to give users room for "discussion of election results," even when that discussion is based on debunked information. Somewhere in between those two policies it has decided to leave up videos challenging Joe Biden's election, and some have received millions of views.

"Is YouTube unable to contend with this material, meaning they lack resources? Or is it a lack of will?" asked Sarah Roberts, co-director of UCLA's Center for Critical Internet Inquiry and an associate professor of information studies. "I think one of those is probably more damning than the other, but they both have the same outcome of allowing propaganda material masquerading as news being distributed on their platform at a critical juncture for the American political cycle," Roberts said...

"There's a good chance YouTube's handling of this goes in the first sentence of every story about how social networks handled the 2020 election for the next several years," Casey Newton, a journalist who writes the technology newsletter Platformer, said in a tweet.

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YouTube Criticized For Not Removing Post-Election Misinformation

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  • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Saturday November 14, 2020 @06:50PM (#60725062) Homepage Journal

    YouTube can't win. Advertisers on one side, conservatives screaming censorship on the other, normal people appalled at the misinformation and hatred their algorithm promotes. Creators pissed off with their vague policies and inconsistent enforcement.

    No matter what they do someone will complain.

    • by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Saturday November 14, 2020 @07:44PM (#60725278)

      Its better that they do nothing, and advertisers should change their expectations.. - the suppression by authorities of content they disagree with using the excuse of "misinformation" is basically a fascist act that makes the US like Venezuela. Whether the information in some random person's video is accurate or not is not relevant. The recourse for inaccurate information is people should fact check what they read, see, and here before reading it, so there should be no illusion that unvetted sources can be trusted without verifying claims.

      People are meant to have free speech as a fundamental right, and "misinformation" is nothing more than a meritless excuse for taking away the right to criticize or share potential concerns with those who will listen; just like any other excuse used by fascists... Authorities almost always call their opponents' words "lies" and "misinformation", no matter who their opponents are, or whether they may be true or not.

      Phrases such as its misinformation or "its all lies", or "they are lying" are the same as the words of tyrants which should never be a legitimate basis for suppressing speech; many governments that committed genocide and similar atrocities censored the media before and during calling anything critical to be "Lies" and "Misinformation".

      It matters not whether said interference is carried about by a large corporate entity that controls the only major platforms or by a government entity that tells the platforms what to do -- when the authorities (authorities includes large corporations) can react by "turning off the internet" or "deleting" whenever their people are discussing things/spreading a message that they deem a "threat"; Free speech has been denied, and the democratic system has failed and no longer exists.

      • Whether the information in some random person's video is accurate or not is not relevant.

        And that's the key. (Well, that and silly stuff that nobody cares about like free speech.)

        Facebook is a glorified multi-user blog. Youtube is a glorified multi-user video blog.

        When the heck did we decide that stuff said on there matters anyway?

      • I think you identified the crux of the issue here,

        (authorities includes large corporations)

        That an organization not answerable to normal people is considered an authority is contrary to the idea of representative government. They can't be voted out. People seem to be under the impression they can't voluntarily stop doing business with them. If these organizations are de facto governing, there should be a way to establish the consent of the governed.

        I suppose you could try breaking the companies up, and write a binder full of highly-technic

      • Whether the information in some random person's video is accurate or not is not relevant.

        Would you continue to defend my right to spread misinformation if I were shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater, with full knowledge that there was no fire? Would you admonish the usher who, seeing what I was doing, clamped their hand over my mouth to prevent a stampede?

        Even setting aside the fact that the first amendment only applies to government restriction, the right to free speech is not absolute.

        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          if I were shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater

          Well: You are quoting a famous line from a case that went against free speech, but that nonsense was overturned in Brandenburg v. Ohio.
          So that is an analogy that doesn't really apply, since the case that won on that argument against free speech Regarding Draft Opposition in WWWI basically got reversed by the Supreme Court decades ago.

          Also it is not what any of the videos people complain about on Youtube are actually doing - they might be false, but they are

    • As long as these companies refused to meddle, they had a viable neutral posture. NOBODY gets pissed at the phone company for allowing phone calls that support one candidate or another, or for calls that spread this conspiracy theory or that one.

      The problem these companies have is they started meddling, and they lied about it. They started picking sides in some arguments, while denying it even as the evidence was obvious and even objectively measureable.

      How many times did Facebook or Twitter or YouTube flag/

  • They care about ad traffic and DMCA takedowns. That is just about it.
    • Right, but what if the advertisers care about other things, too?

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          The dictionaries define dis-information, what next, are you going to say 'who defines lies'?

          Misinformation is simple, it is "false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive"

          I saw some today, no sources given, numbers stated as facts were wrong, endless stream of claims that didn't match reality. Obvious disinformation.

          Ignorant people won't be able to discern mis-information because they are ignorant. People who are well-informed about the subject in question, peopl

    • We all tend to think that corporations are ruthlessly apolitical and will do anything for the bottom line, but that may not be true.

      I recall that some years ago (cannot recall what year) former PBS film critic Michael Medved authored a book on Hollywood (this was before the internet craze) in which he presented a good argument that film studios were in fact NOT just doing films to boost their numbers, but were putting out films that aligned with particular ideological viewpoints and losing money doing it. T

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Saturday November 14, 2020 @07:10PM (#60725140)

    If you are going to take down videos you consider disinformation, how wide a net do you cast?

    What about videos that give really bad haircare/makeup tips? Those are disinformation.

    How much of YouTube is left if you remove everything that is not absolute verifiable fact? Is it just ASMR videos at that point since you can't quite make out what they are saying?

    Just let people say whatever and let otherscorrect them in comments. It all works out in the end.

    • What about videos that give really bad haircare/makeup tips?

      There are only good makeup tips on youtube.

      https://youtu.be/75YIq5f5ASQ [youtu.be]

  • "YouTube is facing growing criticism for allowing election misinformation after it decided not to remove or individually fact-check videos that spread unfounded conspiracy theories alleging voter fraud,"

    Whose metric are we using to determine that one story is unfounded and borders near a conspiracy theory than otherwise?

    This is America, where we have the Freedom of the PRESS.

    • This is America, where we have the Freedom of the PRESS.

      Please, stop talking unless you know what you're talking about. The Constitution's freedom of the press, which, I might add, the con artist has repeatedly and endlessly tried to silence, even going so far as to say he wants libel laws expanded, only applies to the government. Read those last four words again: only applies to the government. In case you forgot, here's the entire text of the First Amendment:

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

      Note the first five words. That means the go

      • Please, stop talking unless you know what you're talking about. The Constitution's freedom of the press, which, I might add, the con artist has repeatedly and endlessly tried to silence, even going so far as to say he wants libel laws expanded, only applies to the government.

        Well, one aspect of freedom of the press is the press cannot also be compelled to publish things. One could also argue that this IS the free press in action.

    • "Don't be mad at me for what I printed, I have Freedum of the PRESS!"

  • by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
    Even if it was a flat earth video its not the place of a platform to dictate and censor and pick and choose what you can and cannot see. I dislike communism but I would not support Google preventing me from seeing videos about it. I find it funny on the censorious assholes here and elsewhere go 'lol private enterprise make your own website' whenever a platform censors and the cry and moan and call for government intervention whenever a platform doesn't censor. Its not a megacorps job to be our nanny. Once y
    • Even if it was a flat earth video its not the place of a platform to dictate and censor and pick and choose what you can and cannot see. I dislike communism but I would not support Google preventing me from seeing videos about it.

      Google isn't preventing you from seeing anything, you can go elsewhere, but you simply don't want to. So what you're really saying is:

      "I dislike Communism but I don't support private property rights".

      Yeah no. Piss off, commie.

    • Either start acting like an adult or you will be treated as a child.

      You want Google to be forced to carry content you want them to carry because you want them to carry it. Because you said so. Okay, kiddo.

  • Lets be clear, the only information that people want to allow should come from reliable authorities. Those people are a bigger threat to democracy than all of Donald Trump's silly posturing. There is no real evidence that the election was stolen and there is no real evidence that Trump is trying to use his lies to the contrary to rally support for a violently seizing power. But four years of Trump mania can easily morph into an authoritarian state as people abandon their freedom in a fit of hysteria.
    • by makomk ( 752139 )

      Including - ironically enough - viral claims of voter suppression and election rigging to elect Trump that spread on social media despite being completely bogus. One of the more popular ones even had a sentence in the article, innocuous enough unless you knew what was wrong with his claims, that made it clear he knew it was bullshit and couldn't work to rig the election as claimed. Basically, he compared the number of people marked to be purged from the electoral roll in key states like Michigan, pointed to

  • The one where I outline how Lindsey Graham had an out of wedlock child with a Puerto Rican maid.

    • by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      That's a shocking revelation!

      I did not think confirmed bachelor Lindsey Graham would enter a relationship with any lady

  • I've been reading the Right wing forums lately and they are getting flooded by so much disinformation that even some of the smarter marks are starting to catch on. They are wondering: why do Trump's attorneys not use the information I read about? Why doesn't Trump talk about the US commandos that raided the voting software offices in Frankfurt?

    When one of their own suggests that these reports are BS, they get the other 90% of the bell curve shouting them down and accusing them of being leftist trolls. The

  • by ltsmash ( 569641 ) on Saturday November 14, 2020 @07:52PM (#60725318)
    Having read Slashdot in the late 1990s, I think many of its newer readers today would be surprised to see what a libertarian stronghold it was back then. I can't remember the exact comment or story, but I recall long ago somebody making a comment at how sensitive people were on the forum about censorship, and many users jumped on his comment and more-or-less explained, "here on Slashdot, free speech is sacred to us". Fast-forward almost 20+ years, and you actually many of the Slashdot commenters criticizing websites for not doing enough censorship.
    • by sinij ( 911942 )
      It was 55 years since Free Speech Movement [wikipedia.org] started, yet how completely and resoundingly it was abandoned once Left achieved cultural dominance.
      • For the left, "free speech" like everything else is a means to an end.

        When their ideas were unpopular and counter to the then-current culture, they used an insistence on "free speech" and frequently quoted the line "I disagree with everything you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" as a tactic to guilt-trip classical liberals into tolerating and protecting every outrageous thing they thought to say. It's how they mainstreamed many of their ideas. As the left took over media and educationa

    • Having read Slashdot in the late 1990s, I think many of its newer readers today would be surprised to see what a libertarian stronghold it was back then. I can't remember the exact comment or story, but I recall long ago somebody making a comment at how sensitive people were on the forum about censorship, and many users jumped on his comment and more-or-less explained, "here on Slashdot, free speech is sacred to us". Fast-forward almost 20+ years, and you actually many of the Slashdot commenters criticizing websites for not doing enough censorship.

      Strange, isn't it?

      I think it's because people support free speech much more strongly when they feel like outsiders. When it's your group running the institutions, suddenly making outliers shut up becomes much more attractive.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by suss ( 158993 )

      Spreading lies and inciting violence do not fall under free speech. Your speech is not free from consequence.

    • Censorship is a slippery slope. It always starts with the nastiest of nasty content nobody wants to be associated with. That drives the initial requirement for infrastructure to censor. Once in place, the music and video industry jumps on the bandwagon. Censorship becomes common-place in the guise of protecting "intellectual property". Freedom-fighters (aka terrorists) seems an obvious target nobody will question. Now that censorship is a trivial every-day topic, adding political opponents to the list doesn

    • Having read Slashdot in the late 1990s, I think many of its newer readers today would be surprised to see what a libertarian stronghold it was back then. I can't remember the exact comment or story, but I recall long ago somebody making a comment at how sensitive people were on the forum about censorship, and many users jumped on his comment and more-or-less explained, "here on Slashdot, free speech is sacred to us". Fast-forward almost 20+ years, and you actually many of the Slashdot commenters criticizing

      • by jlar ( 584848 )

        Yes slashdot was libertarian. But you know what actual libertarians don't support? Forcibly commandeering other people's private property so you can use it as a free megaphone. I don't recall the slashdot of the early 2000s ever being in favour of forcing websites to host your particular message for free.

        Youtube is private property and you have no right to it. Pay for your own megaphone and stop expecting big daddy government to step in and give you communal rights to other people's private property. It's amazing how quickly a self-professed libertarian turns commie when other people use their liberties in a way you don't like.

        Seems like a strawman to me. Please show us a few libertarian comments arguing for government control of big tech.

        What I have seen is severe criticism of big tech and their censorship. And suggestions to categorize their platforms as other publishers due to the heavy handed content editing. And then in the US you do of course also have rules regarding election interference. But those are not as far as I know championed by libertarians. But please prove wrong.

        And I hope you do realize that there is a world o

        • Seems like a strawman to me. Please show us a few libertarian comments arguing for government control of big tech.

          If you can't find them, you should give up using the internets forever, because they are legion. Specifically, they continually demand that Google be forced to carry their speech.

      • Pay for your own megaphone and stop expecting big daddy government to step in and give you communal rights to other people's private property. It's amazing how quickly a self-professed libertarian turns commie when other people use their liberties in a way you don't like.

        Er, you do know that even domain name registrars colluded recently to "de-platform" people, right? They actually had paid for their own megaphone.

    • Maybe they hadn't seen yet the waves of malicious idiots that populated the internet afterwards :) Like that (fake?) Churchill quote: “The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” Not that I'm pro-censorship mind you, but context matters.

  • If only all of these media outlets would do the same about the Russian conspiracy theory instead of amplifying it maybe we would have been able to heal the divide some in the last 4 years instead of making it bigger.
    • Yea they spent 4 years dividing this country, calling him all worst names in the book and calling anyone that voted for him those same names. Now they want to claim they heal the divide in the country they spent all this time creating.
    • This is getting repeated over and over again. In arguing that they should be treated similarly, are you saying that there's as much evidence of voter fraud as there is that Russia tried to influence the 2016 election in favor of Trump?

      • by Vanyle ( 5553318 )
        Yes, there is much more evidence of, at least small scale voter fraud than there was of Trump colluding with Russia.
  • by Deathlizard ( 115856 ) on Saturday November 14, 2020 @08:00PM (#60725348) Homepage Journal

    It's not any social media's job to fact check posts. It's your job.

    Just because you're are too lazy and or too stupid to fact check doesn't mean that some moderator all of a sudden has to step in and fact check for you.

    Back in the day, no one slapped stickers staying "Disputed" on Weekly World News to save Grandma from thinking Bat Boy would terrorize her in the night. It should be no different when it comes to any other social platform.

    • save Grandma from thinking Bat Boy would terrorize her in the night.

      But Bat Boy terrorized me in the grocery store when I was a kid -- I was afraid he would swoop down and take my candy. Now I have an ever-so-slight fear of bats, ceilings, and candy. And the most important question to ask:

      whom do I sue who has money?

    • WWN wasn't trying to destabilize your democracy and they didn't have $billions and foreign assets behind it. They found a way to weaponize free speech that's especially effective against Americans. There's no going back.
  • If you aren't allowed to allege fraud, anywhere, what will happen when there is fraud?
  • There is "popular" and "unpopular", but "true" and "false" are often in the eyes of the beholder. While conservatives are fucked in their own special way, and I'm not one of them, Liberals have ceded the moral high ground. For instance, when it comes to fraud in the last election, all of the talking heads are using escape words. For instance "There was no widespread fraud in the election." Well, what the hell is "widespread"? Or "Trump alleges fraud without evidence". Well, evidence is what he's tryin
    • They claim no widespread? What about all the DEAD people that vote in every states election? When you vote using a DEAD persons name that is fraud which since it happens in every state you think "well wait if 10's of thousands of dead people vote each year in all the states that very easy can be considered widespread Fraud".
    • For instance, when it comes to fraud in the last election, all of the talking heads are using escape words. For instance "There was no widespread fraud in the election." Well, what the hell is "widespread"?

      wideÂspread /ËwÄdËOEspred/
      adjective: widespread; adjective: wide-spread
      found or distributed over a large area or number of people.

      Maybe learn to use a dictionary? That helps a lot.

      Or "Trump alleges fraud without evidence". Well, evidence is what he's trying to gather.

      You mean he's trying to use the courts to go fishing? That's illegal.

      Are you saying the poll workers that submitted affidavits are all lying?

      You mean the affidavits that they supposedly have a big stack of but aren't allowing anyone to see? They wave a big stack of paper and claim it's affidavits of election fraud, but never actually open up the stack a

  • "Is YouTube unable to contend with this material, meaning they lack resources?"

    300 hours of video get uploaded every _minute_, how could they do it?
    With a couple of hundred thousand people speaking 1500 languages?

  • "The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it"

    2020: "Unless, of course, you say things we don't like. In soviet internet, internet routes around you!"

  • Censorship is over? As in, now the election is over there is no reason?

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