Tesla Passes Facebook To Become Fifth Most Valuable US Company (cnbc.com) 93
Electric vehicle maker Tesla surpassed Facebook by market capitalization after markets opened Friday. From a report: Tesla's stock jumped about 5.5% at 9:03 a.m. ET to give it a market cap of $802.6 billion, while Facebook stock dipped. Facebook now has a market cap of about $755.8 billion. The jump makes Elon Musk's automotive venture the fifth biggest company in the large-cap benchmark when counting the share classes of Alphabet together. It now just trails Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and Alphabet. While the mark is largely symbolic, it signifies Tesla's dramatic rise over just a short period of time. Tesla became the first $100 billion publicly listed U.S. carmaker in January 2019. Just 10 months later, the company surpassed a $500 billion market cap. The stock gained more than 700% in 2020. The company joined the S&P 500 in December, wrapping up a strong year of performances. Led by Musk, Tesla has turned in five consecutive profitable quarters. Tesla delivered 499,550 vehicles in the year, and is currently building new factories in Austin, Texas and Brandenburg, Germany, among other efforts to grow its production and sales volume.
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undoing moderation...
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Maybe the people who were smart enough to short it last time can short it again.
Wait, nevermind, they're broke.
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You'd short TSLA right now.
The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent
- Someone Clever [quoteinvestigator.com]
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Please short soon. I want to buy more TSLA.
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I wouldn't short or buy - the stock market is bonkers right now. You'd probably lose on the fees and interest because who knows how long this bubble is doing to last, yet at the same time the P/E ratios on pretty much everything is nonsense so, at least to me, it doesn't make sense to go after any long term investments. We're in what is probably the worst economy of our lifetimes and yet the S&P is hitting record numbers - how does that make sense? I guess you could argue that things will bounce back af
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Keep in mind that by sitting out the market anticipating a bubble pop you are actively giving up earnings - lot of the literature studying this behavior suggests sitting out actually costs more money than just waiting out a recovery.
Welp, time to sell (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought 10 shares a while back, apparently at a price of around $50/share. It's now at $872/share, and I've made 2000% on this investment. This seems...overly exuberant. Like, I believe in Tesla as a company, but this is a bit more than I can fathom being reasonable. Maybe I'll keep one share and hope for stock splits in the future.
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If you'd just purchased 50 shares @ $50 you'd now be able to sell and purchase a Tesla vehicle.
Most of the folks shouting "short TSLA" from the rooftops have learned very expensive lessons.
https://markets.businessinside... [businessinsider.com]
Best,
Re:Welp, time to sell (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Welp, time to sell (Score:4, Insightful)
It's just the stock price, the value of a stock has had no relation to reality since the run up to the Dot Bomb in the late '90s. Once upon a time one purchased stock with the intent to hold it until at least the time when dividends had paid off the purchase. Now a lot of the stock sold pays no dividends and has no voting rights. It's just a piece of paper (or more often a collection of electrons) that says you gave the company some money under the assumption that someone would later pay you more money for that essentially valueless collection of electrons.
Reminds me very much of Bitcoin . . .
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I mean, that piece of paper may not have voting rights, but in the even to liquidation or dividends is worth actual money.
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It depends a lot on the total assets sitting around at liquidation time. FB could liquidate stupidly (give away all non-cash equivalents, turn off the servers, walk away), use the cash to pay off their liabilities, and still be worth $30 billion.
Tesla P/E ratio (Score:2)
They learned that Tesla supporters are delusional fanatics? Even if Tesla became the only car manufacturer on the planet in 10-years their valuation is still too high.
Completely correct, except for the fact that you cannot identify the correct valuation. Or how to calculate the correct valuation. Or measure how important a deviation from the correct valuation is to the company.
Price/Earnings ratio is calculated by the price divided by the earnings. P/E = Price divided by Earnings.
The stock price is proportional to the demand and inversely proportional to the supply, so P = D/S
Demand is a completely psychological measure: it measures how much people like the product, how
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Re: Welp, time to sell (Score:2)
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I "foolishly" sold off a bunch of stock when it was in the $270s and people were already screaming that it was too high. I took some profits and held some just in case. I bought the shares in the first place out of a desire to support Tesla as a company and maybe make a bit of profit at the same time, but I wasn't expecting this valuation for years, if ever.
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A gain is a gain - if you made a profit and walked away, it's a good day - that's a lot more than the average person buying and selling individual stocks can claim!
Re: Welp, time to sell (Score:2)
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Thanks for the reality check (Score:5, Insightful)
Now you are telling me Facebook has had a higher valuation than Tesla all the time.
Tesla valuation looks a lot less insane now, compared to Facebook.
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If you like that reality check, then how about this one. The growth of BTC and TSLA has been pretty similar over the last 5 year:
https://www.axios.com/tesla-bi... [axios.com]
I'll let you decide if that makes BTC more appealing or TSLA less so.
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Still less insane than the value of Bitcoin.
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Tesla valuation looked like it was insane and totally stupid,
Now you are telling me Facebook has had a higher valuation than Tesla all the time.
Tesla valuation looks a lot less insane now, compared to Facebook.
Facebook's underlying business model isn't that different from Google, it sells ads that reach most people on the planet.
Tesla is a niche automotive manufacturer.
I honestly don't understand what's driving the valuation. It has a chance to become one of the big automotive manufacturer's, possibly even the biggest (though I think that's very unlikely), but even if it hit that target I'm not sure it justifies the valuation.
Question for anyone who knows, what's actually driving this? Are there enough day-trader
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Since it got on the S&P, I assume it has some institutional investors onboard. I don't get it either. I've read that since there are a lot of fanatic investors and Musk, the actual percentage being traded is far less than normal. This is leading to some feedback loop? I wish I understood Tesla or bitcoin.
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Facebook sold $80 billion of advertising at an 80% margin (servers are cheap) a year, for approximately $64 billion in gross profit. Tesla sells $28 billion in cars at 21% for a $6 billion gross profit.
There are even bigger multipliers when you get to net profits, because Tesla has lots of non-marginal costs. And I'd think FB, with it's higher barrier to entry than Tesla, should be trading at a higher multiple. But even at the same multipl
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No new American car company has got as far as Telsa in something like 100 years. (If we open it globally and admit Hyundai that shrinks to a mere half century).
Facebook seems incredibly secure because of the network effect, yet incredibly vulnerable since it's 'just a website.'
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I mean, Tesla grew a lot because they had strong EV first-mover advantage. But the EV Hummer sold out as well. And when the EV BWM comes with a tax credit but the Tesla Model S doesn't, are people really going to prefer a Tesla? I don't see Tesla's moat. People say the supercharger network, but ultimately most in city charging is done at apartments or malls - even big cities average one supercharger per million people. Now, at least where I am, those charging stations say "Tesla's only", but I think tha
Third story in 3 days. Got nothing else, Slashdot? (Score:2)
2 days ago: Tesla stock is going up
Yesterday: Musk is richest man
Today: Tesla is fifth most valuable company
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At least Musk is doing something with his money. What is Suckerberg doing with his? Even now they are prepping another grain silo for launch.
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At least Musk is doing something with his money. What is Suckerberg doing with his?
Buying elections [npr.org].
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I doubt it - Zuck can afford good security.
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There are knuckleheads out there right now that are paying $41k for an imaginary currency:
https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?s... [cnbc.com]
There's some REAL reality suspension for ya. :)
Best,
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A pandemic has killed 365,000 with millions in the hospital.
Not correct. The US has about 130k hospitalized for covid ( https://covidtracking.com/ [covidtracking.com] ). It's possible we have millions worldwide (I'm not really sure what that number is), but by your deaths, you are clearly talking about US numbers.
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Presumably, in much the same way that the GP didn't mean that a third of a million died today, the GP also didn't mean that millions are in the hospital today. Millions hospitalized over the duration of the pandemic seems plausible. Mortality for hospitalized patients is currently running at 5%, down from 11.4% early on, so probably O(5) million have been hospitalized, give or take.
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The attempted coup was some larpers taking selfies, and there's no way those people would have made it in if those in power didn't want this to happen.
The pandemic deaths are inflated - anyone who dies with a sniffle is marked as a covid-19 death. Ivermectin has been keeping covid-19 deaths down in places like Africa and India - it could have really helped the US.
Unemployment now isn't due to a poor economy, it's because of the shutdown; that will turn around as soon as the shutdown is lifted.
There is no re
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The attempted coup was some larpers taking selfies, and there's no way those people would have made it in if those in power didn't want this to happen.
That's possibly true, but if so, somebody neglected to be sure all of the Capitol police got the memo. LARPing doesn't usually kill people. Five people have now died in the midst of "LARPing". I'm going to say... no, it's not LARPing when there are 5 fatalities, including one police officer.
The pandemic deaths are inflated - anyone who dies with a sniffle is marked as a covid-19 death.
First, bullshit. Second, no. Third, fuck off. Excess deaths are fucking high for 2020 and they're going to be high for 2021 too.
Unemployment now isn't due to a poor economy, it's because of the shutdown; that will turn around as soon as the shutdown is lifted.
Economies turn down very easily. They don't turn up that fast at all. The economic n
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The attempted coup was some larpers taking selfies
And storming a government building, proclaiming Trump to be the winner of the election, and killing a police officer in the process.
It was a failed coup, but it was an attempted coup none-the-less.
and there's no way those people would have made it in if those in power didn't want this to happen.
Meaning Trump refusing to deploy the National Guard even after the Capitol building was invaded.
The pandemic deaths are inflated - anyone who dies with a sniffle is marked as a covid-19 death.
Tired old BS [cdc.gov]
Ivermectin has been keeping covid-19 deaths down in places like Africa and India - it could have really helped the US.
I thought you just claimed that COVID deaths are way inflated, now you're claiming that they wouldn't happen if the US wasn't mysteriously ignoring a miracle cure.
Unemployment now isn't due to a poor economy, it's because of the shutdown; that will turn around as soon as the shutdown is lifted.
The poor economy is due to the pandemic, t
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It wasn't a coup - it was a bunch of unarmed useful idiots blundering about. They had no plan to actually take over the government. They did break some laws and should be prosecuted, but the hyperbole here is ridiculous.
The CDC gets its numbers from hospitals, and hospitals get money for covid cases. But even the CDC numbers say only 6% of the covid-19 related deaths had that as the only cause. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/... [cdc.gov]
The numbers are overstated, and there is a real problem of disease and death that
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It wasn't a coup - it was a bunch of unarmed useful idiots blundering about. They had no plan to actually take over the government. They did break some laws and should be prosecuted, but the hyperbole here is ridiculous.
The plan was to intimidate legislators into overturning the election and selecting Trump instead, it wasn't likely to succeed but it was the plan.
It's hard to know his state of mind but Trump, in refusing to deploy the national guard, may have actually been hoping they would succeed.
The CDC gets its numbers from hospitals, and hospitals get money for covid cases.
You didn't acknowledge the huge rise in excess mortality. Do you think those are fake deaths?
But even the CDC numbers say only 6% of the covid-19 related deaths had that as the only cause. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/... [cdc.gov]
That's a long since debunked distortion of that statistic. Death certificates virtually always have multiple causes, all that really me
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For the 'coup', it's hard to tell what's going on. I like this guy's take - he seems even-handed to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I do find it a little too convenient that the result of this was that the objections to certification and 10-day audit were avoided - that makes it sound like it was manufactured to me.
Likewise for the pandemic, things are so politicized that it's hard to figure out what to trust. I know there were real deaths. I also know that people got a lot of political mileage blaming
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For the 'coup', it's hard to tell what's going on. I like this guy's take - he seems even-handed to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Why should I care about some random Youtuber? Especially when I have no idea what his particular spin is.
Sure, in the places where they were walking around unopposed they were peaceful.
But I have no idea how you can argue a crowd breaking into and occupying the capitol building, resulting in the deaths of 5 people, is a peaceful protest.
I do find it a little too convenient that the result of this was that the objections to certification and 10-day audit were avoided - that makes it sound like it was manufactured to me.
and now you're veering into crazy conspiracy theory territory.
And there was never going to be a "10-day audit", they was only ever going to be a handful of protest votes, th
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That youtuber is showing video, video that shows that the story has some major spin in other news outlets.
I visit conspiracy-land after reading about what the CIA has been doing for decades in other countries. I don't find it so far-fetched that the same would happen here with the amount of money and power at stake. I'm not fully there, but I definitely don't think our government is transparent and honest.
The nurses I know, not randos from bars, know the pandemic is real, and they're taking the vaccine beca
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That youtuber is showing video, video that shows that the story has some major spin in other news outlets.
Why do you think news outlets are doing the spinning and not him?
All I saw is him selling it as a peaceful protest when 5 people died. That's more than enough for me to know he's full of it.
I visit conspiracy-land after reading about what the CIA has been doing for decades in other countries. I don't find it so far-fetched that the same would happen here with the amount of money and power at stake. I'm not fully there, but I definitely don't think our government is transparent and honest.
Sure, but the fact the CIA could do sketchy stuff doesn't mean that everything that happens is done by the CIA. There's absolutely no evidence of it being a false flag.
The nurses I know, not randos from bars, know the pandemic is real, and they're taking the vaccine because they see how bad it is. They also see how things are getting misreported.
I don't get the point of that Monty Python sketch.
The point is the bodies are real, there's a lot of them, and they all have COVID in common. At a certain point you end up like the shop keeper, arguing th
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https://www.newsweek.com/covid... [newsweek.com]
Legally, an insurrection (Score:2)
Because it was a bunch of civilians, it was technically a failed insurrection, not a failed coup (which requires the military). Just like it was technically sedition, not treason.
Sadly, a lot of people (maskless) will do both. Which means that the secondary effects will be a longer
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Planet Money covered this at some point in the fall - apparently spending at that point was pretty close to pre-pandemic, they mentioned that researchers had found that there was a shift in where consumers spending away from smaller businesses to larger ones which are also more likely to be publicly traded.
So it would seem that the stock market being up generally makes sense as that is where people are spending money. That said, Tesla prices are unhinged from reality and can't be justified in any way.
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Planet Money covered this at some point in the fall - apparently spending at that point was pretty close to pre-pandemic, they mentioned that researchers had found that there was a shift in where consumers spending away from smaller businesses to larger ones which are also more likely to be publicly traded.
That's too bad. I'd think it's the smaller / local businesses which are less able to weather this. We should be consciously making purchasing decisions which help our neighbors and our local economy.
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The stock market is semi-tethered to reality. The demand for things like computers and phones and clothes and books are all the same or better. The real kick in the pants is in travel and tourism and dining. This is probably a great time to get into airline stocks, because you figure they'll have to do better at some point.
But Tesla is ridiculous whether you're on the rabid short-seller side, or the investor side. This stock price is just bizarre.
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I also blame credit card companies. And stupid mortgage allowances. And in general with people that don't see their own debt as a problem.
Tulips (Score:3)
Re:Tulips (Score:4, Insightful)
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True if all else were equal, but what if Tesla's margins can be significantly higher than all the other manufacturers?
They're higher now because they're a luxury brand. That doesn't scale, and if they can build for cheaper competitors will learn to adapt.
Such is the case if they are able to mobilize their robotaxi fleet, make significant recurring revenue from software (ASD)
That's a possibility, and I can see it goosing the price a bit. But Musk has been promising full self driving within a year since 2016 and it's still not here.
Assuming self-driving is possible within 10 years (not a given) while Telsa is the most aggressive in PR and deployment it's not clear that they're in the lead for tech [wikipedia.org]. I'm not sure I see the argument for them domin
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Good thing they don't just build vehicles then. They also build:
* Batteries
* Electric motors
* Car Driving AI
* EV charging infrastructure, which is global
* Solar panels
* Home battery storage
* Grid battery storage
* Energy trading and tracking software (for their grid batteries)
* Potentially energy as well (they got a license for it in the UK)
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Last year reported (2019) had VW making $22 billion, Toyota made $23 billion - and Tesla lost $900 million.
What happens when your competitor outsells you 20:1 and makes billions in profit while you lose money? How do you justify a market cap triple that of people outselling you AND making more profit?
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Eye of the Paper Tigers. (Score:2)
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Actually I think fractional reserve banking was invented before the stock market.
TSLA 6yrs ahead of competition (Score:2)
Tesla is 10 years ahead of Slashdots
one of these companies does something real.. (Score:2)
The other company under discussion here serves as an online platform harvesting use data, selling ads, and inciting violent mobs to attack congress.
Tesla should have 10 times the valuation of Facebook. Not that Tesla should be worth any more than it already is. If people valued companies rationall
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Facebook made $64 billion (gross) and $26 billion (net) last year and is sitting on $55 billion in cash with $28 billion in liabilities. Tesla made $23 billion (gross) and $0.5 billion (net) last year and is sitting on only $14 billion in cash with the same $28 billion in liabilities.
Why wouldn't FB be worth far more?
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On the other hand, the factories and manufacturing infrastructure that Tesla is building will run for decades.
The c
TAANG > FAANG (Score:2)
The new acronym is less cool but more delicious.
Re:TAANG FAANG (Score:1)
Like Justin Bieber topping the YT charts. (Score:2)
Facebook? Valuable?
Sorry, but your "most valuable" is clearly horribly wrong, and your mindset is the cause of half the world's evil.
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I mean, if they gave away all their non-cash equivalent assets, turned off their servers, used their cash to pay off all their liabilities, they would still be worth $30 billion. If they did things like sell their SF real estate and server farms and whatnot it could be worth as much as $175 billion. And they netted $64 billion in profit last year.
They aren't a good company, but they sure as shit are valuable.
Proves one thing (Score:2)
Proves one thing: the scum always rises to the top of the barrel. Elon Musk: outed as scum for forcing his slaves back to work, damn the virus. Flipped the bit on Elon Musk. There will never, ever be a Tesla in my garage, not if it was the best car in the world, which it is not. More like proprietary remote kill switch exploding junk.
Just a reminder (Score:1)
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I feel bad for the other 99 Tesla owners - guess i was lucky and mine didn't had any problems.
This year is a good time to unload Tesla stock (Score:1)
My my (Score:2)
Thatâ(TM)s a lot of money for a house of cards.
Made me a lot of money (Score:1)
Seems like all these Covid checks the feds are sending out are just going right into securities and the stock market causing mild inflation in certain parts of the economy (housing