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Ubuntu Portables (Apple) Apple

Ubuntu Now Runs On Apple Silicon, Devs Say It's 'Completely Usable' (omgubuntu.co.uk) 69

Posted by msmash from the life-finds-a-way dept.
niftydude writes: Developers at ARM virtualisation company Corellium have managed to get Ubuntu 20.04 up and running on the new Apple Silicon Mac Mini. And we're not talking 'it boots and prints a load of text' running here. No, this is the full Ubuntu desktop experience -- and it's already being described as "completely usable!"

Pretty impressive, right? Even Linus Torvalds wasn't convinced that Linux M1 support was likely to appear anytime soon. He told ZDnet's Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols that: "...the main problem with the M1 for me is the GPU and other devices around it, because that's likely what would hold me off using it because it wouldn't have any Linux support unless Apple opens up." Not that he was entirely wrong, mind. GPU support is indeed a current sticking point in Correllium's Linux for M1 effort. It doesn't (yet) include M1 GPU support meaning 'graphics' handling is done via software rendering.
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Ubuntu Now Runs On Apple Silicon, Devs Say It's 'Completely Usable' More

Ubuntu Now Runs On Apple Silicon, Devs Say It's 'Completely Usable'

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  • Misread that (Score:4, Funny)

    by suso ( 153703 ) * on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:03PM (#60973672) Journal

    Whoops, I read that as "completely unstable"

  • and will apple lock them out? also build in storag (Score:3)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:14PM (#60973726)

    and will apple lock them out? also build in storage?

    • Re:and will apple lock them out? also build in sto (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Narcocide ( 102829 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:22PM (#60973760) Homepage

      If they never release GPU drivers and nobody manages to decently reverse-engineer it either, everyone is as good as locked out already. If the GPU remains unsupported and the CPU has to take over with software-rendering, you'll get about 5 minutes of battery life out of this thing. Nobody will actually boot Linux on it except as a novelty. You'd be better off spending your money on a Pinephone.

      • Re:and will apple lock them out? also build in sto (Score:4, Informative)

        by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:53PM (#60973928) Homepage Journal

        They ported it to the M1 Mac Mini, so it's plugged into the wall - no battery needed.

        OK, so presumably something similar would also work on the M1 MacBooks, but who knows. Given that Apple has complete control over the hardware and software, they don't have to deal with setting up anything to allow the software to figure out the hardware in the machine. They can make each configuration have a completely custom macOS build which contains the list of internal hardware. So running on an M1 Mac Mini may not translate to running on an M1 MacBook Pro. (But probably does.)

        They apparently weren't able to get some of the internal hardware working - the M1 Mac Mini includes an Ethernet port and a wifi adapter, but they couldn't get those working, so they're using a USB Ethernet adapter. (At least, I'm assuming that's why it requires a USB Ethernet adapter.) Given those limitations, I'm guessing that they also wouldn't be able to get the keyboard and touchpad working in the M1 MacBooks, because presumably those are using some custom drivers because they're no longer based on PC standards.

        Or not. Who knows. The source for the article is a Twitter thread that's three tweets.

        • Well, either way I stand by my statement about the Pinephone. It only has marginally better drier support but actually has a chance of getting those finished, and for the same price you could get five of them.

          • I haven't powered my Pinephone on since August. Last I checked their "app store" didn't have a single app that wasn't a package that shipped with the distro yet. So I decided to let things sleep and revisit in a few months. How far have things come?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Pieroxy ( 222434 )

            Well, either way I stand by my statement about the Pinephone. It only has marginally better drier support but actually has a chance of getting those finished, and for the same price you could get five of them.

            I honestly think Apple is going to sell a shitload more M1 Macs in 2021 than the Pinephone ever will. And soon, all Macs are going to share the same architecture, so that's going to be more of them. That's a lot of computers, and attractive at that: Battery life, weight, no fan, etc.
            So IMO they *will* get the ethernet, wifi, GPU to work eventually because of the sheer marketshare of these computers..

            That said, if Apple doesn't open up one bit - which is likely unfortunately - it's going to be a race against

          • We are talking about DESKTOP COMPUTERS not PHONES. I do not see how a 'PinePhone' has any relevance to anything here. We are NOT talking about iPhones.
    • No, it's not good enough that there's a way to hack the bootloader.

      My motivation would be to support companies who support Linux.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Entrope ( 68843 )

        That seems like a case of making perfect the enemy of good. Not that they will, but if Apple documented their extensions so that Linux developers could write drivers for them, I would consider it as a platform. I expect that Apple would consider that far too much of an trespass into their walled garden, though, so I do not think they will ever provide the kind of documentation that would be sufficient for third-party driver developers.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      and will apple lock them out? also build in storage?

      Apple has stated they will not require signed boot images, so loading alternative OS's is tolerated (if not officially sanctioned). Apple has also stated that they intend to provide no public documentation on their hardware platforms, so that also means that Apple designed hardware will need to be reverse engineered to be usable.

      Fortunately, at least for this early gen device, a sufficient number of the base components are existing commercially available devices with already existing Linux support, so i

      • That they even get to decide... That's crazy!
        That they can change it, *later on*, ... That's completely crazy!
        It's gonna be the same as always again: Some day, in the future, they will kill "homebrew". Because of "reasons".

        Who's crazy enough to trust an iDevice with running Linux as a non-novelty system, if Apple gets to judge what pleases it and what not?

        Let's face it: It is not a PC. It is a console.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Halo1 ( 136547 )

          It's gonna be the same as always again: Some day, in the future, they will kill "homebrew".

          That would actually be a first for a Mac rather than "the same as always again". I was afraid about this at first, but I don't see it happening after they explicitly pointed out during WWDC [apple.com] that booting unsigned images is supported. It's technically possible, of course, (which in itself is bad), but again, I don't see it happening.

        • You draw a conclusion from a speculative premise. That’s completely crazy!

          Let’s face it: It is not an argument. It is bullshit.

  • Just walk away (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DeplorableCodeMonkey ( 4828467 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:24PM (#60973768)

    Apple is going back to its old self in a big way. If you value openness, just stop buying their products or you'll be chasing increasing incompatibility.

  • Linus was right. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:26PM (#60973772)

    "...the main problem with the M1 for me is the GPU and other devices around it, because that's likely what would hold me off using it because it wouldn't have any Linux support unless Apple opens up." Not that he was entirely wrong, mind. GPU support is indeed a current sticking point in Correllium's Linux for M1 effort. It doesn't (yet) include M1 GPU support meaning 'graphics' handling is done via software rendering.

    He's not entirely wrong, he's entirely correct. Simply being able to run on the CPU while using rudimentary graphics is going to be abhorrently slow for anything beyond web browsing. Even with that, I bet real-time decoding of a video clip on youtube would bring the system to it's knees. Hardware accelerated graphics support has become a vital part of desktop computing in recent years.

    • Uum, web browsing today is implicitly a 3D engine an a 2D layout engine with DirectX-level effects and a massive load ot "textures" (images).

      It's not HTML 2 anymore.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Agreed, but for that matter more and more the whole HTML web is just a way to access video. Software video rendering/scaling, forget it.

      • Uum, web browsing today is implicitly a 3D engine an a 2D layout engine with DirectX-level effects and a massive load ot "textures" (images).

        Yes and this is done seemlessly in software. It's not fast but it's not abhorrently slow.

  • That's quite a feat! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BAReFO0t ( 6240524 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:37PM (#60973818)

    Given Apple keyboards and mice and complete bootloader/OS lockdown!

    *ducks* :D

    Then again, this is Ubuntu. It's not like it was designed to actually do much in the first place!

    *ducks the other way* :D

  • I recently bought an M1 MacBook Air and I'm really impressed with how speedy this thing is compared to my last MacBook. So far, I haven't run into software that doesn't work on Silicon. If there's a speed decrease due to Rosetta, it must be outweighed by the overall increase. Really nice that Ubuntu works - might consider a dual boot at some point.
  • Windows is also completely usable

  • It doesn't (yet) include M1 GPU support meaning 'graphics' handling is done via software rendering.

    If there's no GPU support I doubt there's support for any of the other accelerators either. They installed Ubuntu for ARM on an ARM machine. Not really that exciting.... yet... maybe.

  • Trendy wankers will use it to justify wasting more company money on apple baubles.
    Normal, decent people will stick to PC hardware.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Luke has no name ( 1423139 )

      I wonder if you have ever worked in enterprise IT, or else used a macbook ever, or else have anything useful to say.

      • Yes; yes,because trendy wankers at my company forced me to; yes, clearly way more than whiney, money-wasting sheeple like you.

    • Normal, decent people will stick to PC hardware.

      Yes, that’s what makes a person decent. The type of computer they use.

      • It is obvious to people with normal comprehension skills ( so not you ) that I am pointing out that decent people do not waste their company's money on overpriced hardware because it is fashionable.

        • "do not waste their company's money on overpriced hardware" - I am not rich enough to buy cheap computers. The SO and I have two Macbook Pros from 2012 and thanks to many software upgrades they work better than they did 9 years ago. So, maybe you want to think about that, before you buy cheap junk again.

  • Developer's Opinion (Score:3)

    by Hydrian ( 183536 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:14PM (#60974874) Homepage
    I've worked with enough developers to know that "completely usable" is basically saying, "it doesn't crash." That doesn't mean it would be an experience anyone would want to try to do work with.

  • So, maybe I'm conflating this and trying to make it too simple, but wouldn't Apple be likely to release drivers for their graphics card (as well as any other custom blobs) for Darwin? From that, would one (or a group) be able to (through parallel construction due to BSD v GPL licensing) reverse engineer a Linux driver for the graphics card and the like?

    I know just enough code to be dangerous (so I usually stay away from it), so I'm admitting my ignorance and seeking some insight from those who know better

    • no (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      why would they do that? last time they tried to be open they ended up with hackintoshes everywhere. from their perspective the less compatibility the better.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by samkass ( 174571 )

      So, maybe I'm conflating this and trying to make it too simple, but wouldn't Apple be likely to release drivers for their graphics card (as well as any other custom blobs) for Darwin? From that, would one (or a group) be able to (through parallel construction due to BSD v GPL licensing) reverse engineer a Linux driver for the graphics card and the like?

      I know just enough code to be dangerous (so I usually stay away from it), so I'm admitting my ignorance and seeking some insight from those who know better around here.

      Apple has already released Darwin for M1 Macs on their https://opensource.apple.com/ [apple.com] page. This includes their Mach microkernel and almost all of the userland. I downloaded the XNU kernel and a bit of grepping found a lot of USB code in there. But I suspect it would be a lot of work to extract it all to Linux, and why would you bother? You already have an entire UNIX available in MacOS itself.

  • Dump Mini, use Nuc (Score:3)

    by Shompol ( 1690084 ) on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:31PM (#60974990)
    Apples used to run Linux well. I was considering to buy Mini until I found out that they locked out Linux in 2020 because "enclave". I opted for Intel Nuc as my new desktop instead.

  • I guess that from a hobbiest standpoint it's pretty cool but it's always going to be square peg round hole. Apple is not going to open their walled garden any time soon so this will be a Hackintosh sort of venture where things will work ok for a while and then Apple will put out some sort of update that breaks it.

    The bottom line is that if you have some specific Apple software that you just have to use and there is no viable alternative then get a Mac. If you want to build a Linux box then you are probably

    • "Apple will put out some sort of update that breaks it." - How? As far as I know Apple doesn't teleport hardware updates. So if your Macbook is running Linux, how on earth will Apple break it?

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